How’s this, from the brain surgeons in Albany…?

Some other anti states have mentioned following NYS' lead on this, with restrictions but I haven't followed the details. That's why clarity from Clarence would have been useful. I don't know who talks to these folks but someone should lay out the daily details of concealed carry and how they should be protected from similar restrictions. It is clear to me (WOW) that self-defense trumps property rights of businesses that open to the public. A business accepts many regulations to be in business, so their rights are not absolute. The government should not be able to ban government locations as just being governmental. Houses of worship - the government is setting a condition to worship - how is that Consitutional? Nor are bans at rallies constitutional.

Bans are acceptable only for specific technical reasons such as the MRI room, medical facilities where the carrier loses control of the gun (pants down!), court rooms/jails or airplanes (that's different from other public transportation on technical grounds).

They could have said something like this but didn't.

I read on another site that they are now allowing off duty LEOs to carry. I couldn't be bothered to read the source as I have no intention of setting foot there.

There's a debate about with LEOSA folks will be able to beat the restrictions. Not clear yet. There are some suits filed. We will see. I'm betting the restrictions stick for a few years (hope I'm wrong).

I've said before some of the NYS gun 'guys' are clueless, they don't even know this is coming down the pike. I have to rethink my gear and EDC actions.

From Blues: https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-...rk-state-fair/

Quote:

---

No Off-Duty Carry at New York State Fair​
The State Fair will be using a new high tech weapon detection system at all gates this year. With that being said, privates citizens will not be allowed to carry on the Fairgrounds even if they have a valid pistol permit license. Police officers that are “On-duty” will be permitted to carry, however, the State Dept of Ag and Markets has elected to NOT allow “Off-duty” police and peace officers to carry department or personally owned firearms on the property.

LE officers attending the Law Enforcement Day Ceremonies on Monday Aug 29th in an “On-duty” capacity will be permitted.

This is not a State Police policy, however, we will we be getting called to the gates whenever a firearm is detected.

Thank you for sharing as I wanted everyone to know beforehand.

---

There is the usual discussion of what will happen if there is a mass shooting and wouldn't it be great if an off duty officer could save the day. Of course, it would but so would a citizen as happened in the TX church or Indianapolis. So as Blues won't come to NY, I really don't have sympathy for the off duty officer - unless they are charged with acting an LEO when off duty. If not, then they should be treated as a regular person.

It just stinks in general - back to Clarence not understanding sensitive places in detail.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/...fies-they-can/

Quote:

---

GEDDES, N.Y. (WSYR-TV) — New York State will allow off-duty police officers to carry weapons at the State Fair, as they always were, just 24 hours after they were told they’d no longer be allowed to enter with their guns.

A spokesperson for the New York State Fair confirmed the clarification to partnering NewsChannel 9, several hours after the interim director of the State Fair personally called the Onondaga County Sheriff with the update.

“The bottom line here is that we have many, many police officers who obviously all have the training and are very proficient in firearms. Of course, we hope we never have to use them, but the reality of this situation is, is that we have seen too many mass casualties at mass gatherings. How do we best address it? I think it’s always best if you have more law enforcement present, whether off duty or on duty than less,” said Onondaga County Sheriff Gene Conway.

State bans off-duty police officers from carrying guns at New York State Fair
The controversy began Tuesday when the State Police informed Central New York police departments about a change that would remove an exemption that previously allowed off-duty officers to bring their guns onto the State Fairgrounds.

Members of law enforcement were told the policy change was due to a new weapons detection system that will be installed at all of the gates for this year’s fair.

It’s believed that off-duty law enforcement will have to enter through a separate gate this year, but those details are still being worked out.

Guns are still not allowed for visitors who are not members of law enforcement.

“The Fair’s long-standing policy on carrying firearms on the fairgrounds has not changed. The Fair has reached out to the law enforcement community to make sure there is a clear understanding of the policy and how it is being implemented. We look forward to welcoming our men and women in uniform and all New Yorkers to enjoy the Great New York State Fair this year.”

---

Government in action. At least some semblance of intelligence. A side issue is that carry is allowed because of training.

This is an issue in teacher carry and constitutional carry. I had discussions where colleagues and those on the school's safety committee thought it might be ok if I carried, given a training background and working with the campus department. There were some others of 'good' background but then they feared the TX good ol' boys whose training was shooting a rock at the ranch. They didn't want to vette them along with a general antipathy towards guns from the ruling bosses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoyGBiv

In Texas, permit holders get an express line for the state fair, and the capital building.

---

Seriously?

Yes, when I went to testify for campus carry for the TSRA, went though the gun carrier line in a jiffy.

WV state fair is doing the same 😢
https://statefairofwv.com/know-before-you-go/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeavyDuty

Seriously?

---

Yes. Seriously.

When it was first implemented at the capitol I'm told that even the libs went and got permits, just to be able to use the fast line.

You should definitely give it a try. It's a cool building to walk through as well.

It is a very cool building. After I testified I strolled over to a neat Gelato place for some. This was before the homeless wave in Austin. Just for meaningless blather - there is an insurance or credit card (Capitol One, I think) that has Antonelli's cheese store as a testimonial. One of my favorite stores in Austin.

Back to guns and law -

Here's a piece from Reuters on the impact the new laws have upstate in rural, hunting areas: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN2PI0RM

Of course these issues are irrelevant to a downstate dominated legislature.

Dave Kopel wrote:



https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=4179896

A piece by David Kopel on decision, history and the NYS and CA counter legislation designed to make carry permits useless. A very interesting read but depressing as real time relief of the NYS law or upcoming ones in CA will take the usual lengthy and circuitous routes through the courts. Up and back, then down again - rewrite with more attempts to use ambiguous language against the RKBA. Historical, sensitive, scrutiny - blah, blah. Basically, Kopel points out what many, including me, have said - the judges and justices have their socially determined positions and then wander through years of law and theory to justify what they already decided in their minds.
He also highlights the poorly written language and unnecessary extra blather from Alito and Kavanaugh supporting various antigun laws.

There are suits but we will see if they do anything in real time. If any of our lawyer folks read this - is there an emergency (shadow agenda) quick path to Scotus? If they would ignore the weed and simply say the entire law is unconstitutional, maybe that would indicate a better understanding of real world carry.