Printable View
The place velocity does interest me is with a service pistol penetrator load that you hope to poke a hole in a bear’s skull with. Subjectively, 1,100-1,300 fps seems to be enough velocity to penetrate a skull using a proper bullet, while not so much velocity that you get into reliability issues.
Recall that original USGI .45 power factor, a 230 at 820 is 188.Quote:
Recall that USPSA Major Power Factor is 165, and you can see how powerful a lot of these loads are.
That’s pretty much why either of those two are primarily my choice of self-defense rounds for all of my other pistols except for currently my PX4 45. Just for no apparent reason at all, I felt it a good idea at the time to load it with the 185g +P Underwoods that use the Speer Gold Dot bullets that I had originally bought for my compact XDE Springfield due to what I had thought at the time was compelling information from another forum but once I was told the SGD 45’s made for short-barrel pistols was the better ammunition or that gun, I just decided to put the Underwoods somewhere so my PX4 was it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergeron
I’ve got some HST 45’s for my PX4, I probably should put them back in there since that gun is my go-to when at work in my semi.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ballistics aside, it does matter and there are valid reasons why the most powerful ammunition is not always best for defensive use. The primary factor is time. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by corneileous
One way to think of fights, particularly fights with weapons is as two (or more) competing OODA or time loops.
First, Handguns, even "by God magnums" are poor stoppers. One shot stops with handguns are exceptional situations and excessively powerful loads mean slower times and poorer accuracy for follow up shots.
Second, any fight will be what it is, not what we wish it to be. That means you may well face multiple opponents. Slower times for your transitions means you increase their odds of getting you before you get them.
Well yeah, I shouldn't have said what I said being that I was misinformed into believing there was purposely reduced power 10mm's.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
The answer to your original question is there was a “reduced” 10mm loading briefly used by the FBI. A 180 grain JHP at approximately 950 fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by corneileous
As Doc GKR said .40 s&w duplicates this in a smaller more efficient package.
The history of the FBI’s 10mm duty load and the S&W 1076 is long, convoluted and involves the 1986 Miami shooting, politics and the congressional budget process.
A fair account can be found here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/gundige...ns-and-the-fbi
So did the 10mm start out at those specs and then was made more powerful over the years? Pardon me if I missed it but I just wonder why the 10mm they used was so weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
Because of recoil, accuracy degradation with full power ammunition, and time in shot to shot performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by corneileous
Hmm... I wonder if they'll ever revisit the 10mm due to modern advances in both the ballistics and the weapons; I guess probably not being that both 9mm and 40 has come along way as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelist
I don’t recall if it started out solely as full power 200 grain at 1200 FPS or like the 41 magnum with the intent of a reduced power defensive /duty load.Quote:
Originally Posted by corneileous
Having seen the results of people shot with 180 grain .40 cal JHP at 950ish FPS there is nothing “so weak” about ballistics of that combo. Anyone making that assertion is ignorant at best.
The reasons why that duty load was were in my first reply. Time. Fighting with a gun is not target shooting or hunting. Not only is time always a factor, but fighting often includes beginning in a time deficit in reaction to actions initiated by your opponent.