AAR: John Farnum, ARMED RESPONSE TO A TERRORIST ATTACK, Litchfield NH August 2021

I took ARTA several years ago. It's essentially a merge of his defensive pistol and urban rifle stuff and reapplied in context. Executions seem to vary by location and students, based on their comments it's been tweaked over time. Mine included a night shoot. If you've taken the DTI pistol and rifle class, you've got the basic info. If you've not, ARTA would be a good way to grab John's pistol and rifle essentials. That takes nothing away from the classes, just a description some may find helpful.

No mention of Vicki in your AAR. Was she there?

If you've not trained with John and want to, you're running out of time. Along with several other originals like him.

I like, use, and teach John's tape loops and guidance on interacting with police.

Man I wish I knew about this I would have been there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ST911

I took ARTA several years ago. It's essentially a merge of his defensive pistol and urban rifle stuff and reapplied in context. Executions seem to vary by location and students, based on their comments it's been tweaked over time. Mine included a night shoot. If you've taken the DTI pistol and rifle class, you've got the basic info. If you've not, ARTA would be a good way to grab John's pistol and rifle essentials. That takes nothing away from the classes, just a description some may find helpful.

No mention of Vicki in your AAR. Was she there?

If you've not trained with John and want to, you're running out of time. Along with several other originals like him.

I like, use, and teach John's tape loops and guidance on interacting with police.

---

No Vicki was not there.
The range we were at did not allow shooting after sunset

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snow white

Man I wish I knew about this I would have been there.

---

He comes to NH every summer. Unless health is an issue he should be there next summer.

Thanks for the AAR.

I've done four total Farnam classes, and my ex wife took one, I always considered it money well spent. I took two DTI classes at Nelsonville, Ohio at the range for Hocking College's LE program. Out in the stix, we were able to do awesome night shoots, pitch black , not a very common thing in my training experience.

The first class, I had to get a rental car, and it was a lime green Kia Rio, and everyone in the class of course, had huge SUVs with gun vaults, etc. A guy said to me, "you must be very confident in your masculinity to drive a car like that" lol. I said it's a rental man, the only damn car left at the airport lol, I'll never forget it. I also used a Fobus paddle holster for the class! This was back in 2001.

I would like to do another DTI class to see how they've evolved.

"I will sign a complaint against them."

In 30 year of being a serious student of the pistol which roughly corresponds to my time from Law School to date, I have not been able to determine who started using this phrase 1st-Farnam or Mas Ayoob.

The issues for me are

1. it sounds tritely rehearsed AND

2- in the vast majority of jurisdictions, the victim/witness NEVER SIGNS A DOCUMENT CALLED A COMPLAINT OR THE FUNCTIONAL EQUIVALENT THEREOF IN A CRIMINAL CASE. PERIOD. END OF SUBJECT. FULL STOP.

You might sign a written statement, a Miranda waiver, a property receipt but you are not signing a COMPLAINT. A complaint in many jurisdictions is a formal charging document setting forth the probable cause that a crime has been committed and who committed it. It is signed by a sworn law enforcement officer and a judge. A sworn affidavit by the LEO is usually attached. It is often the precursor to an indictment which is issued by a Grand Jury. As Grand Juries often meet on a regular, but not daily basis, a defendant is often charged by way of complaint and the state/govt has x days (federally 30) to present the matter to a Grand Jury.

So when you say that, you sound like you you have no idea WTF you are talking about. If you do not know what you are talking about re how the criminal case is going to proceed as evidenced by your emphatic statement of legal impossibility, what else do you not know WTF you are talking about?

Think about what you do for a living...what is your first impression of someone who tells you something that is impossible to happen in your chosen profession? The vast majority of what Mr. Farnam and Mr. Ayoob teach has real value. They are thinking men for sure. However, this trope that they trot out is simply WRONG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vcdgrips

"I will sign a complaint against them."

In 30 year of being a serious student of the pistol which roughly corresponds to my time from Law School to date, I have not been able to determine who started using this phrase 1st-Farnam or Mas Ayoob.

The issues for me are

1. it sounds tritely rehearsed AND

2- in the vast majority of jurisdictions, the victim/witness NEVER SIGNS A DOCUMENT CALLED A COMPLAINT OR THE FUNCTIONAL EQUIVALENT THEREOF IN A CRIMINAL CASE. PERIOD. END OF SUBJECT. FULL STOP.

You might sign a written statement, a Miranda waiver, a property receipt but you are not signing a COMPLAINT. A complaint in many jurisdictions is a formal charging document setting forth the probable cause that a crime has been committed and who committed it. It is signed by a sworn law enforcement officer and a judge. A sworn affidavit by the LEO is usually attached. It is often the precursor to an indictment which is issued by a Grand Jury. As Grand Juries often meet on a regular, but not daily basis, a defendant is often charged by way of complaint and the state/govt has x days (federally 30) to present the matter to a Grand Jury.

So when you say that, you sound like you you have no idea WTF you are talking about. If you do not know what you are talking about re how the criminal case is going to proceed as evidenced by your emphatic statement of legal impossibility, what else do you not know WTF you are talking about?

Think about what you do for a living...what is your first impression of someone who tells you something that is impossible to happen in your chosen profession? The vast majority of what Mr. Farnam and Mr. Ayoob teach has real value. They are thinking men for sure. However, this trope that they trot out is simply WRONG.

---

Thanks I appreciate it...
What would you suggest saying instead?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vcdgrips

"I will sign a complaint against them."

In 30 year of being a serious student of the pistol which roughly corresponds to my time from Law School to date, I have not been able to determine who started using this phrase 1st-Farnam or Mas Ayoob.

The issues for me are

1. it sounds tritely rehearsed AND

2- in the vast majority of jurisdictions, the victim/witness NEVER SIGNS A DOCUMENT CALLED A COMPLAINT OR THE FUNCTIONAL EQUIVALENT THEREOF IN A CRIMINAL CASE. PERIOD. END OF SUBJECT. FULL STOP.

You might sign a written statement, a Miranda waiver, a property receipt but you are not signing a COMPLAINT. A complaint in many jurisdictions is a formal charging document setting forth the probable cause that a crime has been committed and who committed it. It is signed by a sworn law enforcement officer and a judge. A sworn affidavit by the LEO is usually attached. It is often the precursor to an indictment which is issued by a Grand Jury. As Grand Juries often meet on a regular, but not daily basis, a defendant is often charged by way of complaint and the state/govt has x days (federally 30) to present the matter to a Grand Jury.

So when you say that, you sound like you you have no idea WTF you are talking about. If you do not know what you are talking about re how the criminal case is going to proceed as evidenced by your emphatic statement of legal impossibility, what else do you not know WTF you are talking about?

Think about what you do for a living...what is your first impression of someone who tells you something that is impossible to happen in your chosen profession? The vast majority of what Mr. Farnam and Mr. Ayoob teach has real value. They are thinking men for sure. However, this trope that they trot out is simply WRONG.

---

In the early to mid 90s we had victims sign misdemeanor complaints. For a while, we would have a prosecutor in the PD for a few hours once a week to meet with complainants directly also. This was SW Ohio.

Bob M

1. I said "vast majority".

2. We are talking about defensive shootings such that they bear no resemblance to the level or type of crime you are talking about

3. Your timeframe is 25 years out of date.

English is a precise language. Words and phrase mean things. This is particularly true in the legal context.

What would you suggest saying instead? was the OP's question.


"I will sign a complaint against them" v. I would never say that in my jurisdiction because that is a legal impossibility

"I will be happy to answer all your question[s]s once my attorney shows up." v. I will speak with you after I have had a chance to speak with my atty in private.

a. you may not want to answer all questions so why would say that you would without speaking with your atty first? If you say that you will answer all questions and you do not, you have now stated a legal impossibility (re the complaint) and failed to do what you said you were going to do.

b. you would want to speak with your atty privately before speaking with anyone else. The suggested response above makes no mention of a private conference beforehand.