PF Hive Mind form of Opinions! I know ya'll can be bashful...

Been a bit dormant here with budding family and busy business, so forgive me for not annoying ya'll in a good while, but I'm back with a request.

A friend is interested in opening a range in NJ and I said I have JUST the folks to tell you why you shouldn't do it/how you could do it, if you were crazy and connected enough.

That being said, what are your pros/cons of all the places you've been, and don't be afraid to drib..I mean scribble your wet dreams here. Gear over hosting trainers? How many lanes? Max/min of lane size? To VIP or NOT to VIP? Food? etc.

Weapons free!

TIA!

Indoor or outdoor?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noah

Indoor or outdoor?

---

Good question. Indoor, but I'd be willing to hear arguments for one over the other, or having access to both, like a CJRPC (Central Jersey Rifle/Pistol Club), which I was a member of long ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaiHu

Good question. Indoor, but I'd be willing to hear arguments for one over the other, or having access to both, like a CJRPC (Central Jersey Rifle/Pistol Club), which I was a member of long ago.

---

The outdoor range I do 99% of my shooting at has like 7 private pistol bays and a 50y "run and gun" rifle range and 100y rifle range. I can go to the pistol bays and draw, move, etc etc practicing for matches, even in small groups with other members.

It is simply an entirely different category of experience than an indoor range, for a shockingly similar cost per month. Most local indoor ranges to me are heavily policed for "rapid fire" even if you're being extremely competent and safe and zero drawing from a holster etc.....

....and for insurance and liability purposes, I don't blame them. Lots of inexperienced and/or overconfident shooters at most indoor ranges.

For me, I'd shoot indoors if it was my only option, but I feel like the value I get for my money at an outdoor range tailored to serious shooters is tenfold an indoor range. If I didn't have access to it I'd probably only use indoor ranging for sighting and testing new equipment and shoot as many outdoor matches as I could.

One of the things I like about my local range is the weekly Tactical/Practical matches. These are a non-affiliated, low pressure, short course of fire match that lets one get to run & gun and perform under time pressure without having to muck about with a complicated set of rules and regulations.

When I lived in NJ, almost every house in my neighborhood had at least a few guns. However, the only options for shooting ranges were all about 1/2 hr. to 1 hr. from my home.

The outdoor range was very strict: drawing from a holster would not have been allowed at all. However, very few people were carrying concealed in NJ at that time. No shooting handguns below age 18. No shooting at all below age 12 (although I started the summer before I turned 12).

Both indoor ranges were also strict: no drawing from a holster.

All of these ranges were heavily used. My Dad and I never had a problem finding a place to shoot, but most of the shooting bays were occupied most of the time. The only exception was the outdoor range's pistol and shotgun ranges, which did not seem to be heavily used.

In light of this, if one is willing to deal with a state that the NRA has (mostly correctly) called a gun owners hell, there is a definite need for shooting ranges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noah

The outdoor range I do 99% of my shooting at has like 7 private pistol bays and a 50y "run and gun" rifle range and 100y rifle range. I can go to the pistol bays and draw, move, etc etc practicing for matches, even in small groups with other members.

It is simply an entirely different category of experience than an indoor range, for a shockingly similar cost per month. Most local indoor ranges to me are heavily policed for "rapid fire" even if you're being extremely competent and safe and zero drawing from a holster etc.....

....and for insurance and liability purposes, I don't blame them. Lots of inexperienced and/or overconfident shooters at most indoor ranges.

For me, I'd shoot indoors if it was my only option, but I feel like the value I get for my money at an outdoor range tailored to serious shooters is tenfold an indoor range. If I didn't have access to it I'd probably only use indoor ranging for sighting and testing new equipment and shoot as many outdoor matches as I could.

---

I feel that this is an important point. In my area there are two types of ranges. The "no rapid fire, no drawing, no movement, no steel" and the ones with individual bays that let you do all of that. I dropped my membership at the outdoor range with a posted onsite range fudd like a hot potato. That one even has an "RSO" that has to approve the stages at their "USPSA" matches and he's a royal PITA.

My home range now, which is outdoor, may just be one of the best in the country. They've hosted all the big name instructors that we all know of. I have access to an indoor that will let you draw once "approved" and shoot as fast as you want also. I feel very fortunate...

I worked on ranges for several years after I got out of the Army but it’s been so long that most of what I have to add will be dated at best.

Start off on the right foot. Hire a good attorney to help set up the company, to include drafting any agreement for people who use the range like third-party trainers, etc. Determine your insurance liability limits from this. Also have your attorney draft the releases that shooters have to sign before they can use the range. One guy worked for wrote his own; an attorney that I had review it later said that it actually increased the owner’s liability.

Visit every range within a 2-hour drive. See what they offer, then find a gap in the offerings and fill it. I think a solid package would include
• 50-foot indoor range. 25 yards is nice but the larger footprint limits possible sites and exponentially increases your needs for air-handling adn other safety equipment.
• 100% CCTV coverage with recording capability 24/7.
• Not sure who has the best backstop systems these days but this will determine what can be fired on your range. Also, lead abatement was the bane of every range I ever worked on. Have a plan in place for lead recovery and disposal before you open the doors.
• Find out what’s going on with the New Jersey equivalent of the EPA. Any time you deal with lead, you WILL attract their attention. Develop lead abatement plans in the shooting area and a testing plan for your employees. One range I worked on required me to have blood drawn and tested monthly.
• The lead abatement business is full of scam artists. The New Jersey National Guard has a bunch of indoor ranges, and the state Occupational Health Nurse is in charge of medical surveillance for them. Get to know this person and ask them questions. They contract out their environmental stuff and they know who’s trustworthy. Do the same with the National Guard Occupational Health nurses in surrounding states.
• 15-20 public lanes. Your range master booth should face this range. The RM’s job is to maintain safety, not to run the register, sell stuff, rent guns, etc. The RM should be firm but not a jerk. Too many of them think they're still at Ft. Benning and can yell at people with impunity. They can't.
• 5-10 member lanes. Keep these separate (as in not visible) from public lanes. This lets members shoot in low light, draw from the holster, shoot on the move, etc., without the unwashed masses getting bad ideas. Membership criteria should include training either from your in-house people or trusted third parties because members will get less oversight than the public.
• Members will come to hate you if you sell their lanes for special events more than 1-2 times per year. The exception is letting local law enforcement use these lanes, which helps protect you from getting shut down by anti-gunners. Also encourage every member of your local police department to become 100% familiar with your entire layout in case they have to respond to a burglary. Same for the fire department in case of fire.
• Strong rental program. Don’t rent anything that you don’t also sell.
• Pro shop where you can sell holsters, ammo, books, etc.


Okie John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by okie john

Also have your attorney draft the releases that shooters have to sign before they can use the range. One guy worked for wrote his own; an attorney that I had review it later said that it actually increased the owner’s liability.

/

• 15-20 public lanes. Your range master booth should face this range. The RM’s job is to maintain safety, not to run the register, sell stuff, rent guns, etc. The RM should be firm but not a jerk. Too many of them think they're still at Ft. Benning and can yell at people with impunity. They can't.
• 5-10 member lanes. Keep these separate (as in not visible) from public lanes. This lets members shoot in low light, draw from the holster, shoot on the move, etc., without the unwashed masses getting bad ideas. Membership criteria should include training either from your in-house people or trusted third parties because members will get less oversight than the public.


Okie John

---

Indoor ranges are the only option for many people who just don’t have access to acreage, whether that’s a private range, public range or private property. The closest one to me is actually pretty good, and the owner’s cool, but still has all the usual rules.

I get why there’s rules about holsters, rapid fire, targets, and everything else. Unless you’re ok with slow fire bullseye shooting there’s going to be something to not like about nearly every range (indoor or outdoor), unless they let you do whatever you want which is rare. Because the majority of the “gun community” is not PF material, and will destroy everything in sight if left unsupervised, up to and including other shooters or themselves.

Among other things, my ideal range would:

* Be outdoors.
* Have 25 or more 25yd x 50yd pistol bays. Enough to where a national-level pistol match could be held there. Enough to where you likely wouldn't have to wait to get a bay on a weekend afternoon. No restrictions on target placement outside of what a USPSA or IDPA match would prohibit. Range-provided target stands, bring your own wood. No restrictions on rapid fire, drawing from a holster, or anything like that.
* Have concrete pads with shade and benches/tables at the front of each bay.
* Have lighting for evening/night shooting.
* Have something other than dirt as the bay surface. Dirt turns to mud. Plan for adequate drainage to limit standing water.
* Have paved parking and paved roads to each range and bay. Again, no mud please.
* Have permanent bathrooms (vs. porta-potties).
* Have known-distance rifle ranges with target pits and berms situated such that shooters can safely go to the pits to change their targets without needing to call a cold range. I hate spending seemingly half my time shooting rifles waiting for some dude to get back from changing his target.
* Have an unknown-distance rifle range with steel, and move the steel around every week or so.
* Probably have skeet and trap and archery and stuff like that I guess because while that's not really my bag I realize that it's all pretty popular.