1911 Platform - l/h thumb for mag release?

Shooting my full-size 1911 I can hit the mag release with only the slightest rotation of my right hand. I've been doing so for several years. I'm working on my mechanics with my new Staccato C and with the shorter grip rotating my hand finds the heel of my palm sliding off the bottom of the grip. I might try grip tape but I don't think that will offer much improvement. After some experimentation it looks like a punch with my left thumb prior to going for a new mag is the way to go. I won't get the mag as fast but won't have to break my grip at all so might be a wash as far as total cycle time. Any thoughts on this? Anyone else using this technique. FWIW my hand is big enough to drop the slide on a full-size 1911 with just barely breaking my grip - size L glove so not huge.

rdtompki, the problem with that technique is a combination of two factors:

1: We all agree that what we are trained/habituated to do is what we WILL do when the crap hits the fan... and:

2: ...we all (usually) agree that we'd rather reload when we WANT to than when we HAVE to.

Hypothetical: We have heard the bump in the night, grabbed our pistol, and gone to check things out. The thing that went bump now goes BANG and we return fire as we run to cover. We follow our ingrained habit and punch the mag release button with our support hand, ejecting it with the few rounds it has left...

...and only then realize that we sleep without spare magazines and don't have any on our physical person.

Our 3 or 4 or whatever remaining rounds are now behind us on the deck in the beaten zone, and we are holding a single shot pistol, which if equipped with a mag disconnector safety is now an entirely dead pistol.

It's why I've always taught don't throw away what's left in the mag until the support hand already has a firm grasp on a full reload mag.

I understand your concern with the right handed shooter's thumb not always being able to hit the mag release button properly. Thus, a suggested change to your plan: grab the fresh mag FIRST, bring it to the gun horizontal, with your thumb now pushing 90 degree angle straight in on the mag release button, and THEN insert and carry on.

Just a suggestion...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mas

It's why I've always taught don't throw away what's left in the mag until the support hand already has a firm grasp on a full reload mag.

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Thanks Mas, I learned that technique in a class with Ernest, but I didn't recall the "why" behind it. It makes perfect sense now.

Mas,
Much appreciated. Will definitely get a better stab at the mag release and have one-in-the-hand prior to dropping a mag. I might go with a slightly taller mag release, not to permit using my right thumb but to provide a bit of margin for error when making that stab.

We taught never drop a mag empty/partial until the new mag is in hand and on the way to the pistol. To teach the masses we used mnemonics:

Out of Battery - Locked Back - Empty - Whatever folks have named it:

shift, grab, release, mags cross in the air, tap, release, threat/cover

Shift - the pistol so the thumb is positioned properly on the mag release - properly means the end of the thumb versus the pad - amazing how those regular Glock mag releases work when you get the thumb indexed correctly.

Grab - index the new mag - since we were training police with traditional mag pouches with the bullets oriented to the strong side the mnemonic was - FLAP UP - THUMB BEHIND (the thumb shoves down behind/between the mag body and the pouch as far as possible) GRIP IT (pinch, index finger is along front of mag) and RIP IT

Release - as the new magazine clears the pouch and is firmly controlled, depress the magazine

Magazines Cross In the Air

Tap

Release - let slide go home - we recommended overhand pull slightly to the rear and crisply release for most pistols)

Threat/Cover

For the In-Battery - Speed - Whatever folks have named it:

shift, grab, release, mags cross in the air, tap, threat/cover (the only difference is you don't release the slide)

We started that way when we transitioned to auto-pistol training, largely because of the mag disconnects on the S&W's, but for other reasons.

We were rigid about it, in that we would correct student officers if they dropped the mag before the new one was on the way - regardless of reload type. When we were evaluating students during our standards drill the student generally had three instructors watching - the guy loading the mags, the guy running the drill, and the guy writing the results - the standard was mag doesn't leave the pistol until the new mag is on the way.

Our idea was that if we taught one way for locked back and another for in-battery, we were adding another decision point. We also understood that human nature would incline folks to pick the easiest way and pretty soon the thought 'I need to reload' is immediately followed by punching the mag away, with the outcomes listed in a post above.

Dan,
I like the discipline built into your approach. With a full-size/commander-size 1911 no problem; I've done much the same for several years. I can retain complete control of the handgun which releasing the mag and restore my grip one-handed. Can do the same with the paddle mag releases on my HK. The Staccato C a) has a short grip and b) a very flat grip (not round-ish as a normal 1911 with grip panels). While the flat grip is ideal for concealment it also tremendously reduces the contact with the gun once the hand is rotated even slightly. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. I do like the gun for a concealed carry piece; as I've gotten old(er) and my butt has gotten smaller I find it a bit more difficult to keep things in place so a smaller, light, low-recoil, accurate gun is a blessing. In competition I can use a double belt with the inner cranked down pretty hard, but who wants to go around all day feeling like they ate too much for breakfast:(