WML on home defense pistol

[breakingtime91]

So long story short im debating getting a surefire mr 11 mount for my 92fs and putting a x300 on it. Before I spend the money i am curious how many of you are using a wml on your home defense pistols? If you are using a different method with your lights please share why. Thank you!

[TCinVA]

When my pistol goes from the holster to nightstand duty, I often mount a Surefire X200b or X300 Ultra to it. The key advantage is being able to grab the pistol and a light at the same time. The key disadvantage to that strategy is most don't seem to realize you don't have to be pointing the light (and, consequently the lethal weapon) directly at whatever it is you are investigating...especially not if you have the face-melting x300 Ultra. You can bounce light off of celings, walls, and even the floor and still light up most rooms in a typical residence well enough to see what you need to see without pointing the weapon at anyone.

I think the WML on a handgun is at it's peak utility for a home defense setup for those who don't wear a uniform that comes with an issued weapon.

[breakingtime91]

Thank you for the response. That's why I think I have been reserved about mounting one, I just use a hand held to search then a neck index if I id a bad guy. Found a huge downside to this the other night when my wife heard something. I had to open a door, ended up being nothing but I definitely ended up with an appreciation for having a free hand available.

[JHC]

I use a G17 with a X300 in a WML holster for nightstand use at night with another SF light to carry. Then a SF G2 mounted on a carbine stashed not that far away.

[Corlissimo]

My P30L wears a WML 24/7/365 and is my current EDC gun as well. I also EDC two lights (small Quark AA, and a Q2TL) for those times when light is needed and a pistol isn't. :)

For me, I see no downside in carrying daily like this, and I am currently working up a P2KSK with a Viridian C5l with a JM Kydex holster just to add even more versatility to my carry practices.

Having that free hand available is a really nice thing, especially if you are not alone when out and about, or are frequently finding yourself with one hand tied up during your daily routine. Of course, your experience the other night already underscores the value in the home at zero dark thirty.

[Up1911Fan]

My bedside gun is a Gen4 G17 with an X300 on it. Right next to it is a Surefire G2X.

[breakingtime91]

Awesome responses, I think it seems so far a wml is a good asset to have and never a hinderance. Ya she wakes me up constantly to go check stuff out since one of her friends homes was broken into. Always get the tap on the shoulder "honey". I think it's still weird to me to use white light in anyway because most of my night experience with a firearm was overseas where white light was a big no no unless in clearing a compound or something along those lines.

[David Armstrong]

I recommend a wml as a secondary light source, never a primary source. I have a Streamlight Scorpion with my bedside gun but a stand-alone light is the first choice for me.

[Crusader8207]

Recently took a class with Ken Hackathorn and we did some night shooting. It was a real eye opener for me in regards to WMLs. I agree that the WML should be a secondary light. Take away from the class for me was being able to have 2 hands on the gun meant more accuracy. One handed shots with a hand held light were accurate but not to the extent that I would like. Ken recommended the Inforce APL, which is a 200 lumen light. I plan on running that light on my EDC G19 and have ordered an AIWB holster that accommodates the light (should have it this week). In addition to the WML I have and carry the Streamlight ProTac 2L (newest one with 260 lumens) as well as an EDC 4Sevens Preon 1.

At night, the G19 with APL goes on the nightstand with the ProTac right next to it. If something goes bump in the night I can go check it out utilizing the ProTac and if necessary, transition to the G19 with WML.

[theJanitor]

G17/X300 Ultra/DG switch. The utility of this combo is incredible.

I'm a civilian and live in a small apartment, double thickness concrete everywhere, and our infant sleeps with the wife and I in the master bedroom. If I'm investigating the proverbial "bump in the night", it's with my WML.

[JHC]

Recently took a class with Ken Hackathorn and we did some night shooting. It was a real eye opener for me in regards to WMLs. I agree that the WML should be a secondary light. Take away from the class for me was being able to have 2 hands on the gun meant more accuracy. One handed shots with a hand held light were accurate but not to the extent that I would like. Ken recommended the Inforce APL, which is a 200 lumen light. I plan on running that light on my EDC G19 and have ordered an AIWB holster that accommodates the light (should have it this week). In addition to the WML I have and carry the Streamlight ProTac 2L (newest one with 260 lumens) as well as an EDC 4Sevens Preon 1.

At night, the G19 with APL goes on the nightstand with the ProTac right next to it. If something goes bump in the night I can go check it out utilizing the ProTac and if necessary, transition to the G19 with WML.

+1 I was kind of in denial about the WML option's huge advantage in making hits until experiencing a direct compare and contrast during a class with him. :o

[Rich]

I use a G17 with a X300 in a WML holster for nightstand use at night with another SF light to carry. Then a SF G2 mounted on a carbine stashed not that far away.

LOL

I still have a old G2/Viking tactics mount on my defender 2000.

Its not even LED and has over 3000rds on the same bulb.

E2 Defender & fury defender stays in my cargo shorts

[Rich]

So long story short im debating getting a surefire mr 11 mount for my 92fs and putting a x300 on it. Before I spend the money i am curious how many of you are using a wml on your home defense pistols? If you are using a different method with your lights please share why. Thank you!

I've been thinking of a APL on my P30S using a DOS-L by Bravo, even though I hate clips /hooks.

Or even maybe a Light & Green laser combo?

Except I'm going to carry it for SD .

It would be nice to have extra options beside a plain pistol with 2 handhelds.

[Corlissimo]

I've been thinking of a APL on my P30S using a DOS-L by Bravo, even though I hate clips /hooks.

Or even maybe a Light & Green laser combo?

Except I'm going to carry it for SD .

It would be nice to have extra options beside a plain pistol with 2 handhelds.

I've been running the Inforce APL on my P30L for the last six months with no issues whatsoever. As I stated earlier, I'm in the process of having a JM holster (two actually - one AIWB, one SS OWB/IWB) for my P2000SK and the new C5L recently acquired. I really am sold on the laser for SD use especially since my night vision is not that good anymore. Initially, it was my failing night vision that prompted me to go the WML route, adding the laser is a no-brainer now.

[JHC]

LOL

I still have a old G2/Viking tactics mount on my defender 2000.

Its not even LED and has over 3000rds on the same bulb.

E2 Defender & fury defender stays in my cargo shorts

Yeah mine's and old incandescent too. Enough for it's purpose.

[oldtexan]

We have a pair of G34s and a G17, all outfitted with Surefire WML (two X300 and an X200) and DG-11 switches, as HD guns. We keep handheld Surefires right next to them. The handhelds are our primary lights for searching and IDing, but are only a backup to the WML for shooting. If/when it comes to shooting, the WML is the primary for us. When shooting with the WML attached, not only can we use two hands on the gun for greater accuracy/speed, but it's amazing to me how sharply the sights are silhouetted against the target by the light of the WML. That makes a very big difference to me with my 59 year old eyes.

[John Hearne]

I have three common carry modes: 1) On-duty in uniform 2) Off-duty in plain clothes 3) Off-duty asleep. I find the WML incredibly useful in 1 & 3 and questionable in 2. The ability to have one hand free - primarily for communication - is the real advantage of the WML. Whether yelling into the radio or the cordless phone, the ability to point a gun at someone and still communicate is crucial.

[jkurtz7]

My Beretta 92 Vertec wears an X300 at night. Probably one of the best investments I've made.

[JodyH]

I recently bought a dedicated nightstand pistol.
H&K USP9 converted to LEM with Trijicon HD's and a TLR3.
When I'm out of town I mount a TLR3 to my CCW P2000SK for hotel room guard duty.

[BoppaBear]

My nightstand M&P 9FS has a TLR3 mounted on it, and I also keep a handled rig beside it. I have a P220 with a TLR1 stashed in the living area of my house.

I like the option of a WML, for the 2 handed shot. I also see the benefit of having the handheld independent of the muzzle.

When traveling, I just carry my 2 HK carry guns and a handheld light.

One mitigating point about the WML is that with one bright enough, in a dark room there should be enough throw off from the light to actually keep the weapon pointed towards the floor, at the ready, and not actually at a person. You're not sweeping a relative, yet it's ready for a presentation towards a threat if necessary.


NOTE: Edited posts brought to you by autocorrect and Tapatalk

[MD7305]

My nightstand gun is my duty G22 w/TLR1. I have a QLS on my duty holster so I remove it from my belt and attach it to the nightstand along with a dated Insight Typhoon2. I took a lowlight course from Stategos International and it sold me on the usefulness of WML...and a handheld. My home has many rooms and awkward angles so for me being able to use a handheld light has some advantages for searching but when it comes to control/shooting scenarios the WML wins all. Also, like John Hearne mentioned, I can run my WML with one hand if I need to go mobile with my baby daughter, use the phone, or carry my late night snack:cool:

[Eli]

I've been carrying an APL everyday for about a year now. First several months, I had it on a Glock 19, but in the last few months it's been riding on my Glock 19L. Pretty much perfect for an EDC light, in my opinion. At night the gun/light and holster come out of my pants and onto my nightstand......in the morning they go back on my hip.


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/Aegis005.jpg

[Crusader8207]

I've been carrying an APL everyday for about a year now. First several months, I had it on a Glock 19, but in the last few months it's been riding on my Glock 19L. Pretty much perfect for an EDC light, in my opinion. At night the gun/light and holster come out of my pants and onto my nightstand......in the morning they go back on my hip.


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/Aegis005.jpg

which holster are you using?

[Surf]

I use a WML on my home defense pistol, however like others I also have a handheld close by it.

I teach a low light course and only recently ran the X300 Ultra which I found to be too much light indoors. I also own an X200 and X300 as comparatives, but the Ultra is just too darn much indoors in a CQB environment.

[Chuck Haggard]

While the advantage in using a WML when shooting is undeniable, most people tend to over use, and misuse, the WML.

It's great gunfighting tool, and really crappy search tool.


I'm no longer allowed to carry a PML on duty at work, and have never seen the utility of doing so on my off-duty concealed carry guns, but my nightstand gun is dedicated to that task (G17 with +2 mag bases and a WML).

[Eli]

which holster are you using?


An Aegis Armory Kydex/Leather hybrid with cut-down INCOG clips. I've got a custom kydex holster on order from Kobleson Leatherworks, I'll do a review on it when it arrives......whenever that'll be.


Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/lighttrigger.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

I use a WML on my home defense pistol, however like others I also have a handheld close by it.

I teach a low light course and only recently ran the X300 Ultra which I found to be too much light indoors. I also own an X200 and X300 as comparatives, but the Ultra is just too darn much indoors in a CQB environment.

I've been leaning towards avoiding the lumens arms race for reasons I don't have the professional chops to articulate but you did the job for me.

[JHC]

I've been leaning towards avoiding the lumens arms race for reasons I don't have the professional chops to articulate but you did the job for me.

Yes realistically for me in my house I don't need the latest most powerful. So "me too" for the most part on WMLs. But . . .that said I am really anxious to see the sticker price for this new 1000 lumen SF that will be coming out. Not as a WML. But dang.

[JMS]

avoiding the lumens arms race

Wonder-Twin powers, activate.... As fun as it is to turn on a light and watch grass turn brown from the spill, I'm already somewhat photosensitive, and get more visual use out of proper shape and configuration of a beam than from raw output past 200 lumens, @ 0-50m. Add the particulates thrown in the air once one starts shooting (not nearly as much with duty-type ammo as with practice), more light itself mostly just ends up being more light to get diffused and tossed back at you once you start putting particulates in the air.

Specific to the thread...whatever you end up going with, learn how to do both, if for no other reason than to give yourself a basis for the decision.

My own nightstand is gun w/X300 w/DG switch AND and handheld. Searching is done with handheld; if shooting is needed, I have light whether I crap myself and drop the handheld or not.

[Chuck Haggard]

For a handgun, indoors, in a non team environment, the older x300 is easily enough light for most people.


Most people get the hardware right, it's the software that they screw up. WML training is not just going to the range and shooting in the dark (although you should, the gear can effect pistol handling and reliability...)

[breakingtime91]

Does anyone know if the APL will mount to the surefire mr11(rail attachment for 92fs)?

[ASH556]

The great and powerful Surf has spoken. Still, just to add another log to the fire, I agree that the WML is a good idea for any handgun, but especially for an HD one where you're more likely to be naked or at least not kitted up when called upon to use it. My personal choice is the M&P 9 with a Surefire X300 and a DG switch; also with Crimson Trace laser grips and topped off with an AAC Evo-9. This is the firearm my wife is trained on and the idea behind the laser grips is that for someone like her that doesn't shoot pistol all the time, the laser provides clear and immediate feedback as to where that bullet is going to go when she pulls the trigger (at least within 6" at the inside distances we're talking about). The DG switch eliminates the need to switch the light on and allows one-handed operation of all the features on the pistol. For her, not being a "gun person" making it as simple as possible is a priority. All she has to do is grip the pistol and the light and laser are immediately on and ready to go. The silencer reduces muzzle flip, reduces sound signature, and reduces muzzle flash.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/9889267613_5158bab141_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9889267613/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9889267613/) by ASH556 (http://www.flickr.com/people/87859750@N03/), on Flickr

[Chuck Haggard]

The can would also make it crazy simple to disarm the shooter at close range.

That needs to be thought about well in advance.

[ASH556]

The can would also make it crazy simple to disarm the shooter at close range.

That needs to be thought about well in advance.

:rolleyes:

Gimme a break. EVERYTHING could potentially have some con to it. For shooting indoors, I'll take the lack of disorienting noise, muzzle flip, and flash over potentially being dis-armed any day. Thug home invaders are usually not ninja assassins skilled in hand-to-hand combat or disarming techniques. If they are, you're probably fuk'd anyway. Besides...you should've been putting rounds into the target before he was close enough to grab the gun anyway.

[Crusader8207]

An Aegis Armory Kydex/Leather hybrid with cut-down INCOG clips. I've got a custom kydex holster on order from Kobleson Leatherworks, I'll do a review on it when it arrives......whenever that'll be.


Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/lighttrigger.jpg

Thanks, I just ordered from Snake Hound Machine an AIWB specific holster and should have it this week. I'll post pic when I get it.

[Chuck Haggard]

:rolleyes:

Gimme a break. .



I did give you a break, by pointing out a possible problem.

How many home invasion cases have you investigated over the past 27 years?

How many gun grab incidents have you researched over the same period?


Your idea of what happens in a for-real home invasion might be a bit off.


Personally, one of the roles where a handgun really shines in countering a potential home invasion is being able to answer the door if need be and not have to put the AR away when it really is the Fed Ex guy.

[Chuck Haggard]

An Aegis Armory Kydex/Leather hybrid with cut-down INCOG clips. I've got a custom kydex holster on order from Kobleson Leatherworks, I'll do a review on it when it arrives......whenever that'll be.


Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/lighttrigger.jpg

I really like the footprint of that light. Most of the time I think putting a light on a G19 is stupid. Makes the gun as long as a G34, so why not just carry a G34?

Go shoot 2000 rounds and then let me know of the light held up, OK? ;)

[BigT]

:rolleyes:

Gimme a break. EVERYTHING could potentially have some con to it. For shooting indoors, I'll take the lack of disorienting noise, muzzle flip, and flash over potentially being dis-armed any day. Thug home invaders are usually not ninja assassins skilled in hand-to-hand combat or disarming techniques. If they are, you're probably fuk'd anyway. Besides...you should've been putting rounds into the target before he was close enough to grab the gun anyway.

Not that he needs little ol me to back him up but I'm with TPD on this.

When I needed to fire rounds for real in my house I didn't hear a kittening thing. And the only muzzle flash I noticed was my uninvited visitors. Everyone else I know who's done the same also hasn't heard a thing. So there isn't any disorentating noise for the vast majority of people in fights.

So you're basically trading off no win for a gun that is easier to disarm and that will be more likely to catch on environmental things like walls and doors. I've also yet to see a pistol made more reliable buy the application of a can.



Wrt shooting him before he's close enough to disarm you, in theory that's true. In theory communism works. In practise kitten happens.

[Chuck Haggard]

BigT, you just reminded me of the time I had to use my M4 at work and didn't hear either of the rounds I fired.

[GardoneVT]

The can would also make it crazy simple to disarm the shooter at close range.

That needs to be thought about well in advance.

There's also the ancillary problem of jury perception in court.

Remember, the average jury staffer gets their gun knowledge from CNN and Hollywood.The last thing you want after a self defense incident is a careerist attorney like Angela Corey of the Zimmerman Case waving around your scary looking can'd handgun claiming you're a delusional threat to society.

[JV_]

Most of the time I think putting a light on a G19 is stupid. Makes the gun as long as a G34, so why not just carry a G34?Because slide length isn't nearly as important as grip length when it comes to concealment.

[Chuck Haggard]

Because slide length isn't nearly as important as grip length when it comes to concealment.

Yeah, knew that, but why have a barrel/sight radius way shorter than your overall envelope? See what I'm sayin?


I get an on and off nightstand gun because I have done that travelling with my G19, but you are already carrying a G34 length gun with something like an M3 or x300 mounted, might as well get the extra velocity and sight radius while you are at it.

I will note on the G17/22 sized guns a PML makes a good stand-off for contact shots, used as one would a breeching shotgun, sorta.

[JHC]

Edit, tpd223 already hit the stand off point.

[JV_]

I guess I've never considered the sight radius differences between the 19 and 17/34 to be significant. I find myself more particular about the width of the front sight, and having the right size light bars around it, than the overall radius.

I see what you're saying, but as someone who's not substantial in size, there is a sizable difference between the 17/34 frame and a 19 from a concealment perspective. I can and do conceal the 17 frame well, but it does require more work when it's warm.

[Chuck Haggard]

I guess I've never considered the sight radius differences between the 19 and 17/34 to be significant. I find myself more particular about the width of the front sight, and having the right size light bars around it, than the overall radius.

I see what you're saying, but as someone who's not substantial in size, there is a sizable difference between the 17/34 frame and a 19 from a concealment perspective. I can and do conceal the 17 frame well, but it does require more work when it's warm.

Totally get that.

I think if I was to CCW a gun with an x300 on it I'd likely grip chop a G17 the way DB does.

[pangloss]

I recently bought a X300U for my bedside G17. If I turn it on in a small room, there's just too much light. If I'm standing at the top of my steps and shining over the balcony into the foyer, it seems pretty good. I wish I'd bought one of the X300s before they were discontinued. Either way, I have a Surefire Z-series for use as my primary light. I think it's 120 lumens, which might be a little less than desired.

[JodyH]

Just had to add a picture.
Because nobody here has EVER seen a H&K USP9-SD converted to LEM with Trijicon HD's and a TLR3 mounted.
:cool:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p82/JodyHuggins/20131018_145829_zps4cf1aa37.jpg

[JodyH]

I think it's 120 lumens, which might be a little less than desired.
I remember when 60 lumens was considered adequate for carbine use...

[Eli]

Totally get that.

I think if I was to CCW a gun with an x300 on it I'd likely grip chop a G17 the way DB does.

I tried an X300 and a TLR-1, just couldn't get used to them, the APL though is just about perfect for me. It's a few millimeters wider than the 17 frame and a few millimeters longer than the 17 slide. Don't know how well a WML carried AIWB would work, but for 3 o'clock it doesn't really make the footprint of the gun any larger. And as y'all noted, the cut down grip frame makes it much easier to conceal.

[Chuck Haggard]

For cops, and for a house gun, I'm a big proponent of PMLs, for CCW not so much. The threat is different.

Cops have to go look for bad guys in dark holes. Folks getting robbed and needing to shoot robbers, as noted so many times in the cases Tom Givens has discussed, are not in true low light situations. It's pretty hard to target and rob somebody if it's too dark to see them.

[Eli]

It's pretty hard to target and rob somebody if it's too dark to see them.

Dogs......the real kind, four legged not two.....are the main reason I started carrying a gun. My focus has since shifted to defense against the less hairy kind (I do after all, live at the base of Meth Mountain), but in the back of my mind is still the disinclination to getting "et up".

When I was a teenager (got my CCL on my 18th birthday) we had several dog attacks around my neighborhood, a few of them happened at night, was a bit unnerved by the possibility of getting attacked at night, before you even knew they were on you.

[JHC]

Dogs......the real kind, four legged not two.....are the main reason I started carrying a gun. My focus has since shifted to defense against the less hairy kind (I do after all, live at the base of Meth Mountain), but in the back of my mind is still the disinclination to getting "et up".

When I was a teenager (got my CCL on my 18th birthday) we had several dog attacks around my neighborhood, a few of them happened at night, was a bit unnerved by the possibility of getting attacked at night, before you even knew they were on you.

Hey no kidding. In a lot of places its more likely than a gang banger.

[Dagga Boy]

Been out of town, but just wanted to "Ditto" everything tpd223 posted. I run WML's on my dedicated home gun, and my long guns. I do not run them on my concealment pistols. I also found that I used the crap out of a hand held as an LEO who worked nights almost exclusively. I rarely ran a WML. With advances in holster design, I would carry a WML as an LEO if I was still working, but like tpd223 noted, they are often over used and software training is often dismissed for a hardware "solution" that can make for a whole new set of issues.

[Beat Trash]

My HD gun is a M&P9 with an Inforce WML attached. I keep a handheld surefire next to it. The circumstances at the time will dictate if I use the handheld light or not. Either way, the option is there, and I like to have options.

I have keep a dedicated HD gun in the bedroom with a WML attached for several years. The thought is that if I only have time to jump out of bed in my birthday suit and grab one thing, I have a light attached.

My agency only authorized privately purchased WML's about 2 years ago. I went from a Surefire X300 to an X300U to the current APL. Size and weight were factors. But DG switches are NOT authorized, so the switch on the APL really won me over. So far the APL has held up. No, you can't beat someone to death with it like you can with the Surefire U-boat, but I try to avoid using my pistol as an impact tool anyway.

When off-duty/CCW, I don't carry a WML attached. Partly because I don't feel the need is quite the same as when at work, or at home. Mostly because I don't carry IWB anymore, but OWB at about 3:30. I can't really pull off concealing a pistol with a light. I'd much rather carry my M&P9c all the time when off-duty, than a pistol/light combo when I think I may be able to conceal it. If I thought I could pull it off, I'd carry a WML when off-duty/ccw. But in the heat of the summer, it's just not do-able for me.

[Chuck Haggard]

The thought is that if I only have time to jump out of bed in my birthday suit and grab one thing, I have a light attached.


This is why my nightstand gun is a G17 with +2 base pads, grip tape, and a light/laser, 20 rounds before the slide locks back, attached laser and light, grab and go, just in case.

[Tamara]

Add the particulates thrown in the air once one starts shooting (not nearly as much with duty-type ammo as with practice), more light itself mostly just ends up being more light to get diffused and tossed back at you once you start putting particulates in the air.

Mottled gray/white steel and tan carboard against desert dirt disappeared completely when the beam from my LightGuard turned to backscatter off the smoke from the shot. My splits were definitely slowed by having to sidestep my own smoke cloud between shots... :eek:

[SJC3081]

Why are you planing to use a nightstand pistol for defensive action when you should be usng a shotgun or a M-4 carbine instead with a Surefire light.

[Dagga Boy]

Why are you planing to use a nightstand pistol for defensive action when you should be usng a shotgun or a M-4 carbine instead with a Surefire light.

My 870 is close by with both a 500 Lumen light and a Aimpoint Micro. The problem with a long gun becomes maneuverability and discretion. For an obvious door getting kicked in invasion-the 870 is plan A. Often times we are investigating a "noise" or an unknown. We may be handling children, dogs, or both. We may be coming to the door for a late night knock that has a good chance of being law enforcement officers or a neighbor or some other person where a shotgun or rifle is not a good plan. Having access to both a pistol and long gun that are specifically equipped for discretionary shooting in low/no-light conditions is the best bet.

[Chuck Haggard]

My 870 is close by with both a 500 Lumen light and a Aimpoint Micro. The problem with a long gun becomes maneuverability and discretion. For an obvious door getting kicked in invasion-the 870 is plan A. Often times we are investigating a "noise" or an unknown. We may be handling children, dogs, or both. We may be coming to the door for a late night knock that has a good chance of being law enforcement officers or a neighbor or some other person where a shotgun or rifle is not a good plan. Having access to both a pistol and long gun that are specifically equipped for discretionary shooting in low/no-light conditions is the best bet.

^What he said^

[Savage Hands]

My 870 is close by with both a 500 Lumen light and a Aimpoint Micro. The problem with a long gun becomes maneuverability and discretion. For an obvious door getting kicked in invasion-the 870 is plan A. Often times we are investigating a "noise" or an unknown. We may be handling children, dogs, or both. We may be coming to the door for a late night knock that has a good chance of being law enforcement officers or a neighbor or some other person where a shotgun or rifle is not a good plan. Having access to both a pistol and long gun that are specifically equipped for discretionary shooting in low/no-light conditions is the best bet.


Exactly...

[MDS]

Why are you planing to use a nightstand pistol for defensive action when you should be usng a shotgun or a M-4 carbine instead with a Surefire light.

My answers are a bit different. First, there are kids in the house, and I haven't experimented with quick-access safes for long-guns that fit on a nightstand. Second, I am much more familiar with pistols than with long-guns, ask me again after I take a couple of carbine classes. Finally, it doesn't fit my particular...ummm...uhh...(idiom?) IDIOM!!! How am I going to use my pistol to fight my way to my long gun if the long gun is just right there? ;)

[breakingtime91]

I suppose that was towards me. First and foremost I don't want to. Secondly I have two German Shepherds that are going to be with me. Trying to restrain my dogs, open doors, call 911 if home alone. All of this is easier with a pistol. I understand how a long gun is better, I have extensive experience base with the M4 from two deployments to Afghanistan. I understand the upsides of it, just not for me and my current situation.

[Sparks2112]

My HD gun is a M&P9 with an Inforce WML attached. I keep a handheld surefire next to it. The circumstances at the time will dictate if I use the handheld light or not. Either way, the option is there, and I like to have options.

I have keep a dedicated HD gun in the bedroom with a WML attached for several years. The thought is that if I only have time to jump out of bed in my birthday suit and grab one thing, I have a light attached.

My agency only authorized privately purchased WML's about 2 years ago. I went from a Surefire X300 to an X300U to the current APL. Size and weight were factors. But DG switches are NOT authorized, so the switch on the APL really won me over. So far the APL has held up. No, you can't beat someone to death with it like you can with the Surefire U-boat, but I try to avoid using my pistol as an impact tool anyway.

When off-duty/CCW, I don't carry a WML attached. Partly because I don't feel the need is quite the same as when at work, or at home. Mostly because I don't carry IWB anymore, but OWB at about 3:30. I can't really pull off concealing a pistol with a light. I'd much rather carry my M&P9c all the time when off-duty, than a pistol/light combo when I think I may be able to conceal it. If I thought I could pull it off, I'd carry a WML when off-duty/ccw. But in the heat of the summer, it's just not do-able for me.

Shows what I know, I've never seen any of ya'll running a WML before and just assumed (yeah I know) they weren't authorized. If you can, why was the DG switch not authorized? More importantly, when are they going to let you guys have CT grips?

[TCinVA]

Why are you planing to use a nightstand pistol for defensive action when you should be usng a shotgun or a M-4 carbine instead with a Surefire light.

My G34 with the Surefire X300U and a G18 mag in it isn't quite as good as an MP5, but it's darn close. It's also a lot easier to hide that behind your back and quickly so that you don't scare the bejeezus out of the paper delivery guy who is knocking on your door at 3 AM to tell you that your house is on fire.

[SGT_Calle]

Slightly off topic, I ordered a DG-11 for my x300u and Amazon sent a "MN10 lamp assembly" with a dg-11 sticker on the package, lol. Needless to say, I was displeased to see a $3 bulb instead of my $60+ switch. Amazon is fixing it without any drama thankfully.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[jlw]

Put me in the 870 camp.

[Beat Trash]

Shows what I know, I've never seen any of ya'll running a WML before and just assumed (yeah I know) they weren't authorized. If you can, why was the DG switch not authorized? More importantly, when are they going to let you guys have CT grips?

Things vary from agency to agency.

But the short answer, is politics...

I work for an agency that is down to about 950 officers from around 1,100.

WML's were never authorized because the fear was that officers would use pistol lights as a hand held light and be pointing guns at people when asking them to "Sign the citation here..." at traffic stops.

A new Chief from outside the agency changed that. They became authorized, but at the officers expense to purchase the light and holster.

DG switches are issued to SWAT. The issued ALS holsters required a slight modification to work. A few seconds with a drumel tool. The official excuse was the Rage Master didn't want officers having to modify their own, privately purchased holster. Real story is that he only felt things like WML's and Parol Rifles should be in the hands of SWAT. Old School mentality of wanting SWAT to have a monopoly on the CDI factor. (Yet would you care to guess the ratio of OIS's by uniform patrol officers vs. SWAT officers acting in that capacity?)

CT Grips are not going to happen in my lifetime. CT grips are an issue with an agency issuing TASER's. Problem is something like this: You have a suspect that has a hostage at gunpoint. Something has escalated (pick a scenario) to where deadly force must be used. There are two red dots, one on the suspect and one on the hostage. One red dot from a taser and one from a 9mm. Which one is which? Who shoots? You have about a half of second to answer that question. Or so the logic goes.

Not trying to sidetrack the topic. But making choices for an individual, such as a WML for HD is a lot easier than making choices made for an agency. Other factors such as cost, training, senior command staff's personal opinion and perception, all come into play. Remember that in larger agencies, to spend 20-30 years to make it to the senior levels of command, you most likely come from an administrative background. Yet you also are pretentious enough to assume you actually know more about tactics than your own tactical instructors.

The concept of a WML for a pistol kept for home defense has many valid points to justify having one. I actually think it would be harder to make the argument against a WML for a HD pistol. But if you chose to use a WML on your HD gun, please, please practice and train with it a bit. Practice activating the light with one hand. Just like you would do if the other hand were opening a door, directing your child to a safe location or whatever. Practice going from activating a light to firing your gun, all with the one hand. It's not rocket science, but it's a bit different.

Stay safe...

[jlw]

Prior to 2007, my issued duty pistol didn't have a light rail, and even it did, our issued holster was the Safariland 070, and it doesn't accommodate a WML. When we switched to Glocks in 2007, the decision was made to stick with the 070 holster as the powers that be didn't want to change both weapon system and holster at the same time. Several years later they switched to the 6360 holster and mandate WML. I'm not sure which light they chose, but I will ask the next time I cross paths with someone from the mother ship. There, everybody carries issued gear, and it is all the same for everyone.

At the SO, personnel make their own decision as to WML and which duty holster they use. If they express no preference, we buy a 6360.

We did have one instance were a guy without discussing it with anyone went out and bought an oddball light and brought it in expect us to find him a holster to fit it. That didn't happen.

[Dagga Boy]

The DG switch adds software issues to the small piece of hardware. If you are not absolutely switched on with trigger finger discipline, especially when operating in low light with high levels of fear and stress, they are not a good thing. They are a good thing for those who can use the attributes effectively, and an additional issue for those that cannot. We catch squared away shooters sub-consciously cheating their triggers at class all the time with just a little stress on a flat range with cardboard targets....this gets amplified hundreds of times over on the street.

[Sparks2112]

Things vary from agency to agency.

But the short answer, is politics...

I work for an agency that is down to about 950 officers from around 1,100.

WML's were never authorized because the fear was that officers would use pistol lights as a hand held light and be pointing guns at people when asking them to "Sign the citation here..." at traffic stops.

A new Chief from outside the agency changed that. They became authorized, but at the officers expense to purchase the light and holster.

DG switches are issued to SWAT. The issued ALS holsters required a slight modification to work. A few seconds with a drumel tool. The official excuse was the Rage Master didn't want officers having to modify their own, privately purchased holster. Real story is that he only felt things like WML's and Parol Rifles should be in the hands of SWAT. Old School mentality of wanting SWAT to have a monopoly on the CDI factor. (Yet would you care to guess the ratio of OIS's by uniform patrol officers vs. SWAT officers acting in that capacity?)

CT Grips are not going to happen in my lifetime. CT grips are an issue with an agency issuing TASER's. Problem is something like this: You have a suspect that has a hostage at gunpoint. Something has escalated (pick a scenario) to where deadly force must be used. There are two red dots, one on the suspect and one on the hostage. One red dot from a taser and one from a 9mm. Which one is which? Who shoots? You have about a half of second to answer that question. Or so the logic goes.

Not trying to sidetrack the topic. But making choices for an individual, such as a WML for HD is a lot easier than making choices made for an agency. Other factors such as cost, training, senior command staff's personal opinion and perception, all come into play. Remember that in larger agencies, to spend 20-30 years to make it to the senior levels of command, you most likely come from an administrative background. Yet you also are pretentious enough to assume you actually know more about tactics than your own tactical instructors.

The concept of a WML for a pistol kept for home defense has many valid points to justify having one. I actually think it would be harder to make the argument against a WML for a HD pistol. But if you chose to use a WML on your HD gun, please, please practice and train with it a bit. Practice activating the light with one hand. Just like you would do if the other hand were opening a door, directing your child to a safe location or whatever. Practice going from activating a light to firing your gun, all with the one hand. It's not rocket science, but it's a bit different.

Stay safe...

At least you guys have an actual duty round now? Anyway, thanks for the response, it's nice to see the hometown PD moving forward at least a little bit at a time.

[ASH556]

HD trifecta:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3795/10430580085_49ce8e3435_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/10430580085/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/10430580085/) by ASH556 (http://www.flickr.com/people/87859750@N03/), on Flickr

[seabiscuit]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but for you guys talking about searching with the handheld and shooting with the WML (which makes sense), how/when do you ditch the handheld and put both hands on the pistol?

[Chuck Haggard]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but for you guys talking about searching with the handheld and shooting with the WML (which makes sense), how/when do you ditch the handheld and put both hands on the pistol?

I know it's a crappy answer, but; It depends.

On range, available cover, difficulty of target, etc.

In FoF I have hit a lot, and I mean a lot, of people during indoor scenarios by just keeping the light and shooting one handed. Those problems weren't that difficult.

[Savage Hands]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but for you guys talking about searching with the handheld and shooting with the WML (which makes sense), how/when do you ditch the handheld and put both hands on the pistol?


For me it's when my family is in the designated area behind me, there's no way to come around me without a ladder and breaking windows. My 3 year old isn't that clever yet.

[Chuck Haggard]

For me it's when my family is in the designated area behind me, there's no way to come around me without a ladder and breaking windows. My 3 year old isn't that clever yet.


Good choice.

Posting up at a point of domination = not searching. And a good place for a WML as a primary source of PID

[Cookie Monster]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but for you guys talking about searching with the handheld and shooting with the WML (which makes sense), how/when do you ditch the handheld and put both hands on the pistol?

All my handheld lights have rings that I have put on them made from hardware store O-rings, rubber gaskety things. I have my index finger through the ring. If I need to clear a malfunction or open a door or a number of other things including putting two hands on the pistol, I can "drop" the light and then with a flick of the wrist it comes back into my hand. That might be a fine motor skill but I'll just have to deal with that.

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/surefire-p-and-g-series-pocket-clip/

I use two O rings I tie together with the inner cord stripped from P-cord but just to give you an idea.

Came from spending time at Thunder Ranch, I remember my first time through T3, Clint spitting on my WML to clean the lens.

Cheers,
Cookie Monster

[TheTrevor]

Came from spending time at Thunder Ranch, I remember my first time through T3, Clint spitting on my WML to clean the lens.

Heh. Good times.

[Jay Cunningham]

So long story short im debating getting a surefire mr 11 mount for my 92fs and putting a x300 on it. Before I spend the money i am curious how many of you are using a wml on your home defense pistols? If you are using a different method with your lights please share why. Thank you!

I think its a good idea.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I've come to stop even caring if my pistol has a rail. The only time I'd put a light on it is for a home defense role.

My home defense weapon is an AR-15 with a light on it.

Do you by chance own a rifle?

[Rich]

So long story short im debating getting a surefire mr 11 mount for my 92fs and putting a x300 on it. Before I spend the money i am curious how many of you are using a wml on your home defense pistols? If you are using a different method with your lights please share why. Thank you!

Shoot I'm starting to carry IWB -Light in this case a P30S w/ TLR-1

When its out of holster the P30S with TLR-1 sits under a bandana on night stand and carbine with APL near by it.

The Bandana keeps dust off the pistol.