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View Full Version : AAR: Michael de Bethencourt/snubtraining.com Folding Knife, Snub Courses 10/11-13/13



ST911
10-16-2013, 01:34 PM
AAR

“Essentials of the Defensive Folding Knife”
“Secrets of the Concealed Carry Snub”
“Advanced Secrets of the Concealed Carry Snub”

@ Great Guns Sporting, Nunn CO, October 10-13, 2013

Over the weekend of Oct 11-13 I traveled to Nunn, CO to attend three courses offered by Michael de Bethencourt, owner/operator of snubtraining.com. My goals for this training were several fold. Having come into LE in the post-revolver era, my formal instruction on revolvers was minimal even in advanced training. In LE firearms instructor courses, revolver methods and techniques are also minimal. All this, despite the popularity of the compact, short barreled snubs in secondary and CCW carry. In attending this course, I wanted to learn what I didn’t know I didn’t know, increase my knowledge base, learn and practice new methods of using the system, and develop ways to translate and redeliver that information to others in my charge. Michael de Bethencourt (hereafter: MdB) came highly recommended as a source for this instruction, and the class in Colorado was an optimal combination of time, travel, and logistics variables. In pre-course contact with MdB, he also extended the offer of taking all three courses on the weekend for the price of two, adding further value.

TD1 – Essentials of the Defensive Folding Knife
http://snubtraining.com/courses_defensiveknife.html

Most students arrived about 0830 for the 0900 start. MdB met students outside, and it was immediately apparent that he was a very unique individual. Outgoing and witty, he had an active and sincere interest in getting to know students. Class began with distribution of a seven page double sided handout that served as his COI and course outline. After introducing himself and describing his bona fides, MdB took great care to note that course content was not his creation, but a compilation and genesis of the best work of others on the topics. During this intro and throughout the remainder of the course, he also reinforced that he expected the information and course content to be taken forward by us and given to others, else it live and die with him. Knowledge that had been “paid for in blood” should not have to be learned again. On that same theme, MdB also stressed that we were not students in his courses, but guest instructors. This is reflected in handout content, which reads: “Every individual attending this program attends as a guest instructor, as a training peer. You have a moral and professional obligation to correct and contribute material presented in this program.”

There were three students attending day one. One, a regular citizen and alum of an MdB snub course, another alum who was prior LE and a friend of MdB from Massachusetts, and yours truly. A fourth student enrolled but was a no-show.

Class paperwork included the customary risk/hazard agreement popular in firearms training. MdB’s is a bit different however, taking up only one half of one side of a sheet of paper. His premise is simple: such waivers/hold-harmless agreements generally aren’t worth the paper they are printed on, and a simple acknowledgement of the dangers of training are sufficient for his purposes. That’s not to see he took risk lightly, as safety expectations, practices, procedures, and contingencies were discussed. This included a clearing and securing of student weapons of all types from the training environment until the end of the training day. Course content flowed from there and followed the provided handout.

The first portion of the class was thoughtful and detailed discussion of use of lethal force, both as it pertained to the use of a folding knife and lethal force in general. Information presented was realistically illustrated with real world examples and possibilities, and neither under- nor overstated. Those attending this as a first UoF lecture would find it a clear, concise, and excellent framework to work from. Others with prior UoF training will find a number of gems in his examples, illustrations, and commentary. During this portion MdB took care to credit the work and experience of others on the subject as he merged it with his thoughts and style. Fighting and survival mindset was interspersed throughout this portion of instruction.

From there, we moved into knife specific instruction. Topics included but were not limited to:


knife features, valuable and otherwise
handling, opening, closing
conventional and unconventional carry methods
historic use of the knife
comparative goals in knife and gun use
target area selection


Drills and hands-on activities included grips, holds, deployment, knife retention drills, defense from attacks from various directions, use of the knife in weapon retention, and even blood borne pathogen considerations. Safety remained a constant consideration, and dedicated inert training knives, specifically red-handled Spyderco Delica trainers, were utilized.

An 8-hour block of time is a very minimal period in which to provide even a basic knife orientation. To help the student make the most of that time interval, he focused on some key “one-button solutions” most likely to be retained after the class and able to be used in a defensive use of the knife.

Prior to this session, I had minimal knife training. Despite that, MdB’s information and drill progression followed a logical development and sequencing that made the information digestible and retainable.

Lessons learned offered new opportunities and motivation for further training on the subject. I also found many of my own choices and practices validated, including my carry locations, blade orientations, and knife selection. Dedicated, compact, straight edges in support side carry, of stout enough construction to do the work without breaking the bank, will serve well.

With the days objectives met and goals accomplished, the training day ended on schedule at 1700.

TD2 – Secrets of the Concealed Carry Snub
http://snubtraining.com/courses_gunfightingsecrets.html

We picked up several additional students on day two, bringing our number to approximately eight. All but one of the new arrivals were regular folks of various backgrounds, and the remaining an LE instructor from northern Wyoming. The class introductions, safety brief, weapons clearance, and paperwork were the same as on day one. An eleven page double sided handout was provided outlining course content and related information.

MdB led a discussion of the advantages of revolvers and snubs in particular, nomenclature, model identification, feature identification, common terminology, and genesis of the snub. Snubs brought to class by students included various J-frames in 38 or 357, steel or aluminum, but no scandiums. There was a single LCR, and a short barrel K-frame. Grips, sights, and features varied. A few students had both a primary snub and spare, as suggested on the course packing list. I brought my EDC 642 and 442, both with rubber boot grips and Apex duty/carry trigger kits.

Discussion on equipment, including stocks, sights, worthwhile gunsmith modifications, configurations, carry and reloading accessories, and ammunition considerations followed. MdB had a variety of examples of both good and problematic equipment. While sharing many of his preferences MdB offered few absolutes, chief among which was reliability. However, if you were familiar with your snub, understood its strengths and limitations, and were safe and effective, you were good to go. Range work would validate your choices or show you your problems.

For technique, MdB discussed and demonstrated fundamentals and common errors in gripping, sighting, and reloading, as well as alternatives for different configurations of equipment.

After lunch, class moved to the range for live fire exercises. Range accommodations were sufficient for all shooters to be on the line at the same time, which kept training moving. On the range MdB distributed four Quick-Strips (http://www.tuffproducts.com/category_s/1889.htm) to each student, along with two HKS speed loaders (commonly available) and a SL Variant speed loader (http://www.bobmacs.com/variantcatalog.htm).

Live fire drills progressed through a series of progressive, two-handed exercises exposing the student to essential aspects of snub operation, including but not limited to:


dry handling drills
squib load recognition
reloading with loose rounds, from strips, and from speed loaders
different reloading techniques and possible complications
the influence of time on shooter performance
target zone transition
alternate sighting methods in close quarters
decision making


Each drill was progressive, exposing the student to a preceding concept and building on it. As this was not specifically a shooting course, each drill offered enough exposure to orient the student to the need for the task and how it might be accomplished, without an attempt to produce a definitive competency in performing it. As drills progressed, several students were able to identify issues with their gear. Examples include grips that did not allow speed loader clearance, grips that snagged or hung on presentation, and holsters that were problematic in presentation or reholstering.

You can view some of MdB’s manual of arms in his youtube videos here. These are what many will use to distinguish him from other instructors in revolver methods.

Reload, right handed shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRTdXvjBmE
Reload, left handed shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjkmfOGSVH8
Thoughts on speed loaders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSDAZLc5Jgg

You can find further video demonstration of MdB’s methods and discussion by searching for his portion of POSA’s “Snubby Summit.”

I was aware of the right handed reloading method prior to class, had been playing with it here and there, and liked it. To have it explained and compared to other methods in detail was even more helpful. I am still working with the left handed reload and am not sold yet, but I have a much clearer understanding of it.

Working with the different ways to prepare and use a speed strip, how and why each method works and fails, was also instructive. I settled on MdB’s four-round arrangement with empty slots at each end as a solution for my needs.

With the exception of one exercise, all shooting was done on non-humanoid targets. Target choice was not critical to the drill sets. Target sizes were small enough to prompt deliberate effort, but were representative of realistic target zones in a defensive shooting.

With goals accomplished for day two, class concluded at about 1700. The round count for day two was about 100rds for most students.

TD3 – Advanced Secrets of the Concealed Carry Snub
http://snubtraining.com/courses_mastering.html

Four students remained for day three, which began with one last classroom session. A ten page double sided handout was provided outlining course content and related information. Paperwork and safety briefs were the same as in previous days. Instruction and discussion built on information in day two, including deeper discussion of various snub models, configurations, and gunsmithing. New information included:


laser sight systems, with examples of various types and manufacturers
flashlight techniques
carry of a second snub (BUG)
ankle carry, different methods, and draw techniques
weak hand/single hand shooting and reloading skills


Live fire exercises on the range were another progression through the previous days information and skills, with integration of the new information above. Several dry and live fire runs were conducted exposing the student to single-handed presentation, firing, and reloading, as well as recovering a dropped/lost gun. Ankle presentations from various carry methods were also drilled. Class concluded with shooting from inside range-prepped garments to illustrate blast effect on the garment and injury potential to underlying tissue.

The round count for day two was about 120rds for most students. Training concluded at about 1700.

SUMMARY

In compiling a review of training, I want to convey a sufficient amount of information about the class to help the reader make an educated decision about what courses are worth attending and will meet their needs without compromising the intellectual property, unique methods, or salability of the instructor’s product. If there is a more specific item you would like to know about I will help if I can, or you can reach out to the instructor directly at the links provided.

MdB is an excellent teacher whose instructional techniques, motivation, and course construct were highly effective. He demonstrated superior subject matter knowledge and sincere interest in student performance. He was early for class, stayed as late as needed by students, and was available on breaks. He was well prepared for class, flexible with minor adjustments that needed to be made, and was task and goal focused rather than time-managed. He has an exceedingly…unique…personality that most will warm to rapidly. In watching instructor:student interaction, he did adjust to different student personalities as needed, though there were no student personality problems noted in class.

The student:instructor ratio for this training was good. While instructors need to fill seats to make teaching classes viable, smaller class sizes offer more interaction and individual attention. The eight students on day two seemed about perfect. Larger classes on day one and day three would not have compromised material or learning.

The packing list provided to students via the website was complete. In many other courses I’ve attended, there always seems to be something that could have been brought that wasn’t listed or thought of, or something recommended by the instructor that wasn’t needed or useful. Given the course construction and activities, the packing list provided by MdB was correct and round counts accurate. It is also quite conservative, making travel to the course(s) easier, especially for those who may want to fly in. Where gear is listed as optional, I recommend taking it.

The light packing list is partially owed to MdB’s impressive road show. He packs a lot of example and loaner gear for student use, surely increasing his load and decreasing his own portability for the benefit of others.

The package pricing for three days of training at the price of two adds value.

Lunch and break sessions were adequate. Short in duration, they offered sufficient time to tend to housekeeping needs while not wasting time. Where extra time or an irregular break was needed, it was given. I especially appreciated the working lunches, requiring students to pack same for the range. This offers additional opportunity for interaction and informal discussion, while still providing a rest period. It also avoids the time-sink that off-premises lunch breaks often create.

I appreciated the handouts, which were well prepared and contained essential information. Many other courses offered by instructors do not provide material for reference during and after training, forcing students to rely upon their own note taking time and ability to capture critical information. While I took many notes in addition to the information in the handouts, the latter helped me prepare an even better compilation of course material for my long term reference.

Despite some distinct preferences in equipment, MdB accepted student gear brought to the class if it was managed intelligently and safely. He did offer honest feedback, but without real ridicule or embarrassment to the student.

Fighting and survival mindset were frequent themes throughout each day and exercise. If not specifically addressed, it was apparent in the information shared or drill performed.

As mentioned previously, this course was not a shooting or gun fighting course in the more traditional sense. Rather, it’s an offering of the most basic essentials required of the defensive folding knife and snub revolver. Students leave with information to make better equipment decisions, and drills with which to practice essential physical skills. Where more shooting was requested to run a drill again, remediate, or to satisfy a curiosity, MdB accommodated those. I do believe that adding a few repetitions to several drills would even better reinforce them, and the already conservative round count and energy demand could easily accommodate them for most students.

I would be interested in seeing a third day shooting component added to the snub offerings, offering greater live fire work. As time demands increase however, training becomes less viable for more students. Perhaps a three day weekend that was snub focused, in lieu of the knife class, would be marketable.

Then again, the trio of two snub days and a day of folding knife likely meets the needs and satisfies the curiosity or sense of adventure of many more students than three days of snubs would.

Lastly, I’ll finish with equipment. As offered earlier, I brought my two EDC revolvers, a S&W 442 and 642. Interestingly, in my pre-pack for the class I found that didn’t own a belt holster of any type to fit a J-frame and had to borrow one. My snubs are primarily pocket or ankle guns and I have plenty of those. If I’ve had belt space for a holster, it carried something more substantial than a snub.

For ammunition, I used an assortment of Black Hills Ammunition 148 HBWC, Corbon 110gr DPX, Corbon 80gr Glaser Safety Slugs, and a dusty box of 110gr Winchester Silvertips long since retired. Not knowing what specific exercises would be fired, I wanted to have different bullet weights, velocities, primers, and felt recoil available. I ended up shooting 223 rounds total for both days, and enough of each load to satisfy some curiosities. The only ammunition issue of note is the comparative difficulty in reloading wadcutters, which was no surprise. Fumbling loose rounds from the pocket was common. The loose tolerances in the HKS speed loaders mitigated bullet alignment a bit at the cylinder. The SL Variant loader had tighter tolerances and less play to align rounds. The easiest cartridges to load regardless of method were the DPX round loaded with Barnes copper solids. They have a conical, pointed profile that could not miss the cylinder.

In shooting the DPX, I had opportunity to complete an informal test. A couple of months ago, I accidentally washed a speed strip with five DPX rounds on it in the cargo pocket of my uniform pants. I left them in place as the pants were washed giving me two washes per week over two months or so. During one of the drills on TD3, I put those rounds through the 442 and they fired without issue. While certainly not optimal ammo or laundry handling, it’s good to know that stacking oversights in life support gear may have an escape hatch when quality product is chosen.

Other than the occasional incompatible widgets, there were no gun or ammo malfunctions with other students. The sole parts failure or stoppage was in my own S&W 442. On day 3 I suffered a hard stoppage in which the cylinder stopped rotating. Fortunately it came at the end of a drill and an opportune time to diagnose it. On examination, the FP tip was moving freely through the firing pin hole with movement of the gun, protruding into the cylinder, blocking its rotation. Unable to resolve it on the range, I deadlined the gun, grabbed a spare snub, and finished the course. On my return home Monday, I disassembled the gun and found the FP tip broken free from the base, with all else in spec. There was enough flare on the tip to keep it from falling free through the FP hole, and the FP base kept it in place in the rear. Records indicate that this particular gun had fired 958 total rounds to date. The kit had been installed 12/1/2012 and had fired 528 rounds at the time of failure. A note sent to Apex received a fast reply, and a replacement kit unit was shipped Tuesday.

As important as what the course was, is what it was not. This was not a hard-sell on the merits of the revolver intended to convert dedicated or regular pistol users. It didn’t detract from the performance or place of the pistol in life support or recreational uses. Rather, it was presented as marketed: how to get the most out of your snub.

I’ve attempted to identify some things about the course that I would change, were negative, or that detracted from my learning. I might change the start of the day to 0800 from 0900, adding another hour of opportunity. Beyond that, the remainder of content that was not definitively positive remain only those points or techniques I’m still mulling over and are pending valuation.

Based on the above, I recommend this instructor and course(s) to snub users and contemplators seeking deeper understanding of the essentials of that system.

ToddG
10-16-2013, 02:39 PM
TD1 – Essentials of the Defensive Folding Knife
http://snubtraining.com/courses_defensiveknife.html

Sir! I question your alleged participation in this class. I have read your class summary and did not see the word taint used even once!

ST911
10-16-2013, 03:04 PM
Sir! I question your alleged participation in this class. I have read your class summary and did not see the word taint used even once!

As you might imagine, certain subject matter is better summarized with discretion in order to preserve the surprises for the noobs. :D

ToddG
10-16-2013, 03:51 PM
As you might imagine, certain subject matter is better summarized with discretion in order to preserve the surprises for the noobs. :D

Fair enough. I'm sure Bobo approves. ;)

Dave Williams
10-16-2013, 06:44 PM
Great review thank you.

Shellback
10-16-2013, 07:30 PM
Awesome write up. Sounds like a great class to attend for those of us who rely on the J Frame from time to time.

ST911
10-17-2013, 09:06 PM
Job well done to Apex, who had a replacement kit (and an extra touch) in my mailbox this morning. I'll run it through a test fire and post-class practice session this weekend. Thanks guys.