Dry-fire question

[MGW]

For those of you that do a lot of dry fire practice that includes reloads, do you use snap caps or or something else? I don't remember the name of the company but I wonder if the training rounds that use actual casings would be better for training reloads?

[jetfire]

For those of you that do a lot of dry fire practice that includes reloads, do you use snap caps or or something else? I don't remember the name of the company but I wonder if the training rounds that use actual casings would be better for training reloads?

I use training rounds that are loaded with actual bullets but no primers or propellant. Makes the mag feel right.

[LSP972]

For those of you that do a lot of dry fire practice that includes reloads, do you use snap caps or or something else? I don't remember the name of the company but I wonder if the training rounds that use actual casings would be better for training reloads?

We tried every type of snap cap/training round/dummy round extant in the 80s/very early 90s; that includes real brass/bullets with no primer or powder, the orange "Safe-T Trainers" and the ones (I forget the brand name) with a nylon plug in place of the primer, allegedly to "cushion" the hammer nose blow, among others. I'm talking .38 Special, here.

We found that the real brass/real bullet types were the way to go, as they most realistically replicated what actually occurs when using a speed loader. The ones we used featured brown-lacquered cases and real RNL bullets; sorry, don't recall the maker. But they are still available... I bought some from Brownell's last year for the lab.

One of the main drills we used, before progressing to live fire, was to put six fired cases in the charge holes first. This gave resistance to the ejector rod, just like one would encounter in live fire.

Interestingly, enough, we faced more difficulty with teaching cadets how to load the speedloader (SafariLand Comp II) than in teaching them how to use the thing. IOW, after a bit of practice most cadets could employ the speedloader with great competence; but many of them had a difficult time charging the things. That always amazed me. We eventually came up with a technique that worked... except, of course, with that one per cent who should never be allowed near machinery...

.

[feudist]

Hi,
Brownells carries "Proving Rounds", designed to mimic weight and function.
They would be my choice for speedloader practice.

[Jason F]

So if you're using real brass & real bullets sans powder, primer, etc.... are you loading them yourself?

I've been thinking of making some training load rounds and over crimping them to just prevent setback from chambering a lot.

Good idea? Bad idea?

(FYI, this would be .45ACP for primary use in a few 1911s)

[David Armstrong]

Another vote for the Brownell's Proving Rounds. I've got some for all my fighting calibers for the dry-fire issue as well as demos during training. I like the Saf-T-Trainers for some stuff but over time they get banged up and they are very light.

[LSP972]

So if you're using real brass & real bullets sans powder, primer, etc.... are you loading them yourself?

I've been thinking of making some training load rounds and over crimping them to just prevent setback from chambering a lot.

Good idea? Bad idea?

(FYI, this would be .45ACP for primary use in a few 1911s)


Fine idea; just make sure your taper crimp die is set to give .471 or .470 at the case mouth. You do know that over-crimping with a taper crimp die causes more problems that it solves, right?

And I'd use FMJ bullets, because lead ones are gonna get dinged up.

.

[LSP972]

Hi,
Brownells carries "Proving Rounds", designed to mimic weight and function.
They would be my choice for speedloader practice.

Proving rounds are different from dummy rounds. Proving rounds are supposedly made to precise SAAMI specs for testing an action, etc., whereas dummy rounds have a bit more... tolerances. ;)

The proving rounds will work fine for our purposes, but IIRC they are MUCH more expensive than regular garden-variety dummy rounds. If that matters...

.

[MGW]

I have made dummy rounds for 9mm and 45 but don't use them for dry fire. Might be time to get setup for loading 38. $18 for ten dummy rounds from brownells seems a little excessive. A little red RTV in the primer pocket should be enough to make them okay for dry fire.

[dbateman]

So if you're using real brass & real bullets sans powder, primer, etc.... are you loading them yourself?

I've been thinking of making some training load rounds and over crimping them to just prevent setback from chambering a lot.

Good idea? Bad idea?

(FYI, this would be .45ACP for primary use in a few 1911s)


I made my own I just ran some cases thru my press but did not prime or charge the cases just seated and crimped a projectile, I did not change the crimp setting on my die and my training rounds are holding up quite well.

[Jason F]

I made my own I just ran some cases thru my press but did not prime or charge the cases just seated and crimped a projectile, I did not change the crimp setting on my die and my training rounds are holding up quite well.

That's exactly what I'd been thinking of doing. Perfect. Thanks!

[MGW]

I drilled a hole through the case near the bottom on the 45 and 9mm rounds after seating them and then hit the hole with a deburing tool. There is no doubt when I look at them that they are blanks.

[WernerM]

I used nickel cases with red permanent marker on the CMJ's (only use brass) and silicone in the primer pockets.

[JAD]

I used a syringe to fill mine with epoxy, including the primer cup. It prevents setback. A bleed hole helps.

[LSP972]

I used a syringe to fill mine with epoxy, including the primer cup. It prevents setback. A bleed hole helps.

Apparently, the extra weight of those epoxy-filled dummy rounds (compared to a regular cartridge) doesn't affect feeding/ejection?

That's a good idea, but I'm just wondering...

.

[JonInWA]

You guys are certainly going the extra mile-I've been pretty much relying on Azooms in various calibers for various guns over the past several years-I like the silicone in the primer cup to protect the firing pin, and the different color to preclude mix-ups with actual ammunition.

Best, Jon

[jetfire]

You guys are certainly going the extra mile-I've been pretty much relying on Azooms in various calibers for various guns over the past several years-I like the silicone in the primer cup to protect the firing pin, and the different color to preclude mix-ups with actual ammunition.

Best, Jon

I got off A-zooms a while ago because they're too easy if I'm working on revolver reloads. They're a lot smoother and lighter than real rounds, and I found I was getting huge discrepancies between my snap cap reloads and live fire.

[JAD]

Apparently, the extra weight of those epoxy-filled dummy rounds (compared to a regular cartridge) doesn't affect feeding/ejection?

Not that I recall. I stopped using dummy rounds (other than the orange plastic ones for ball-and-dummy type stuff) because they made me uncomfortable.

[JonInWA]

I got off A-zooms a while ago because they're too easy if I'm working on revolver reloads. They're a lot smoother and lighter than real rounds, and I found I was getting huge discrepancies between my snap cap reloads and live fire.

Good point....sigh-thanks for pointing out yet another area necessitating expenditure of funds...:eek:

Best, Jon

[jetfire]

I do what I can for my fellow wheel-gun enthusiasts, especially those with the taste and good sense to get a Ruger.

Ruger Revolvers: For when you might need to shoot something and have a boat anchor!

[tcRenegade]

Wasting money on dummy rounds for centerfire revolvers. You can dry fire all day long with NO damage or harm to firing pin!

[jetfire]

Wasting money on dummy rounds for centerfire revolvers. You can dry fire all day long with NO damage or harm to firing pin!

It's hard to practice reloads without something to put in the chambers, Cochise.

[BLR]

Wasting money on dummy rounds for centerfire revolvers. You can dry fire all day long with NO damage or harm to firing pin!

I peened the firing pin hole in 2 slides by dry firing. The Omega would do 200ish rounds before breaking the pin after messing up the slide. It took me a couple hours to recut the hole.

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[David Armstrong]

Wasting money on dummy rounds for centerfire revolvers. You can dry fire all day long with NO damage or harm to firing pin!
More to dry firing than just the firing part. Various maipulations are improved with actual dummy rounds as opposed to doing the gunner version of air guitar.

[reilly8282]

Would it be possible to,

1. Remove the bullet, dump powder.
2. Fire primer then remove primer.
3. Replace bullet, then drill hole and fill with epoxy from primer pocket.

I don't reload, and don't have access to a reloader. But by reading this thread I understand the pro's to training with "real" dummy rounds instead of plastics, would this be a solution for someone like me without reloading capabilities?

[JAD]

Nope. Replacing the bullet and removing the primer requires reloading capability. Fortunately you can buy good action proving dummies from Brownell's.

[reilly8282]

Thank you JAD, I appreciate your advice. Ill check brownwells.

[Drang]

Oddly, was just having a conversation with some of my fellow NRA Instructors about the subject of dummy rounds/snap caps/action proving rounds. We gave a Home Firearm Safety class at the Fun Show on Sunday, and one of the bolt guns trotted out was a Mosin... "Hey, does anyone make dummy rounds or snap caps in 7.62x54R?"
As it turns out, yes (http://www.dummybullet.com/7.62x54r_dummy_practice_rounds.html).

ST Action Pro (http://www.stactionpro.com/action-trainer-dummy-rounds-c-1.html) may have the nicest dummys, but the caliber selection is limited.

The problem with the all-plastic ones is that the can get chewed up pretty easily by any mechanism, even by a revolver. OTOH, they're usually cheap.

One of our colleagues makes his own, bullet, no powder or primer, hole drilled through brass. Works well enough for our purposes. (He had to roll his own, as his lever gun for the hands on potion of HFS was a Marlin in .444.)

[FotoTomas]

...snip...

The problem with the all-plastic ones is that the can get chewed up pretty easily by any mechanism, even by a revolver. OTOH, they're usually cheap.

...snip...)

A side note...we used the orange plastic training rounds for single hand manipulation training of our Beretta and SIG handguns. The rounds would so easily start to chip at the rim that occasionally particals would tie up the gun when they would fall into the lockwork. They were since banned from our training and now we use a nickled case with an orange plastic bullet.

I imagine the issue would not be such a problem with revolvers but I would stay away from the all plastic practice cartridges.

[Wendell]

ST Action Pro (http://www.stactionpro.com/action-trainer-dummy-rounds-c-1.html) may have the nicest dummys, but the caliber selection is limited...

They're the nicest by far (http://www.stactionpro.com/action-trainer-dummy-rounds-c-1.html).

[MGW]

They're the nicest by far (http://www.stactionpro.com/action-trainer-dummy-rounds-c-1.html).

What's the weight like on these? I think Grant Cunningham was recommending them.

[cclaxton]

What's the weight like on these? I think Grant Cunningham was recommending them.

I have the 12ga shotgun dummies and the .223cal dummies and I love using them. I already owned a bunch of 9mm snapcaps, so no need to get pistol ones.
They work great, only problem is they don't go bang.
CC

[Drang]

What's the weight like on these? I think Grant Cunningham was recommending them.

Web site lists the shipping weight for a single 9mm as ".02 pounds." :p They're not as heavy as some of the action proving rounds sold by Brownells, but heavier than the all-plastic jobs. They eject well, if that's what your concern is.

[Malamute]

Firing pins may be safe in handguns, but its possible to break transfer bars in Ruger revolvers. I've broken 3 in 2 different guns, and know of several more by others. I stopped dry fire without snap caps of some sort. Plain empties get the primer peened in badly after a few hits and don't do much.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_0453.jpg

[SGT_Calle]

I spent some time this weekend with snap caps in my 686 working on dry fire. I wish that there was a way for them to simulate the difficulty of clearing out spent brass in reloads. Snap caps just plop out, lol.
Also, almost holstered up for work this morning with a cylinder full of snap caps still... doh. I hate Mondays.


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