Airline Dry-Runs.?

[RoyGBiv]

I'm sure this goes on with some regularity and we just don't hear about it often, but this one (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/dry-run-terror-attack-took-place-sept-2-flight-dc-orlando-newly-revealed-memo-says) seems fairly large scale (4 actors).

??

Is this happening frequently?
Dry run or distraction?

Anyone know if these 4 men were held for questioning? the article does not mention anything about post-flight actions.


A group of Middle-Eastern males boarded in DCA. Shortly after takeoff, one got up and ran from his seat in coach towards the flight deck door. He made a hard left and entered the forward lav, where he stayed for a considerable length of time! While he was in there, the others got up and proceeded to move about the cabin, changing seats, opening overhead bins, and generally making a scene. They appeared to be trying to occupy and distract the flight attendants.
.................
The memo also said that on Flight 1180's return trip to Washington, no air marshall was scheduled to fly that route, but there was supposed to have been “a significant VIP” on board. The VIP rebooked to another flight after being informed of the incident on the incoming leg of Flight 1880.

The memo notes that there were “eight Middle Eastern females, concealed in full burkas” waiting to board that return flight.

“Coincidence?” the memo asks again

[Shellback]

PLEASE DO NOT REPOST LARGE SECTIONS OF COPYRIGHTED NEWS ARTICLES (ToddG)

Testing the waters... (http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/339104/250/INVESTIGATORS-Memo-warns-of-terrorist-dry-runs-on-planes) I don't know all the legalities that pertain to in flight law, they probably weren't "technically" breaking the law, but these turkeys need to be held in a small room and have a meeting with a few of our more persuasive guys.

A memo obtained by the 10 News investigators from the union that represents pilots for US Airways says that "there have been several cases recently throughout the (airline) industry of what appear to be probes, or dry-runs, to test our procedures and reaction to an in flight threat."
...
The Air Marshal and others we have spoken to say several flights they have worked were targets of dry-runs and that most of his colleagues believe no matter what the TSA says, the incident aboard Flight 1880 is serious.

[RoyGBiv]

Beat u by 1 minute. :D

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9873-Airline-Dry-Runs

Watch your copyrights.

Post from phone. Typos r me

[ToddG]

Threads merged.

[Shellback]

Beat u by 1 minute. :D

Watch your copyrights.

You better watch your copyrights! ;)

[JDM]

You've both been warned. :D

[TheRoland]

As a general rule, any document which asks "Coincidence?" is most prudently answered "Yes".

[Josh Runkle]

This sounds like nothing but generic islam-a-phobia.

How many times a day do 4 Caucasian males board a flight together and pester the crew while one of them runs to the bathroom because he has the kittens? Often. People don't "say something" because they don't "see something".

[phil_in_cs]

Could also be "death by a thousand cuts".... They are bad guys, but don't do anything wrong beyond freak people out so they can't be charged. Since people are freaked out, they surrender more liberty and .gov adds billions to the budget. The cost to the bad guys is near zero and the cost to us is tens of billions each year, adjusted for inflation, forever, and the permanent reduction of personal liberty.

[GardoneVT]

Not that I'm in the habit of doing this for a profession, but were I to hypothetically plan a terrorist attack,I'd use people unlikely to set off alarm bells.That, to me, would point toward Caucasian terrorists.Few bystanders would suspect a 17 year old girl as being a suicide bomber.

[NEPAKevin]

Last month, the Military channel aired a series of specials on the weekend after the 9-11 anniversary. One of the missed tells was the dry runs. Considering the best case vs worst case scenarios, I for one would rather resources be used to deter mass murder, maybe hurt some boo-boo feelings, than ignore and hope for radical Islam to have a change of heart.

[TAZ]

This sounds like nothing but generic islam-a-phobia.

How many times a day do 4 Caucasian males board a flight together and pester the crew while one of them runs to the bathroom because he has the kittens? Often. People don't "say something" because they don't "see something".

Possible. It's also possible that they are fishing for a civil rights case and get a settlement from the airlines.

I don't fly much anymore, but I've never seen numerous passengers act this way. I have seen people puke, make a run for the head to puke or other. I've not see groups act in concert. Black, brown, white or green is irrelevant. They were acting goofy in my book so I'd be giving them a second look

[ford.304]

Can someone who has spent some time overseas explain...

Why the heck would you still try to bomb an airplane when security is ten times less serious at any mall, stadium, railroad, or TSA checkpoint waiting line? Is that something that is just a culture gap, and not being familiar with all of the different soft points in the American lifestyle? Or are plane bombings just seen as flashier and more effective from a terror standpoint?

[Josh Runkle]

Planes have multiple roles in who is harmed. The people on that plane are harmed, the people who "fly" or live similarly are psychologically harmed, the plane is directed at a target which is harmed, the people who live lives similar to the target area are psychologically harmed, then people uninvolved are terrorized.

The singular location only affects 3 types of people rather than 5. It could result in greater loss of life, but probably wouldn't affect stock markets, public outcry or legislation to the same effect. How many short sales took place on 9/11?

[Kyle Reese]

This sounds like nothing but generic islam-a-phobia.

How many times a day do 4 Caucasian males board a flight together and pester the crew while one of them runs to the bathroom because he has the kittens? Often. People don't "say something" because they don't "see something".

Rhetorical question, but what happens when the bad guys start using Caucasians who happen to be adherents to radical Islam, such as Western converts, Chechens and the like?

[TGS]

Can someone who has spent some time overseas explain...

Why the heck would you still try to bomb an airplane when security is ten times less serious at any mall, stadium, railroad, or TSA checkpoint waiting line? Is that something that is just a culture gap, and not being familiar with all of the different soft points in the American lifestyle? Or are plane bombings just seen as flashier and more effective from a terror standpoint?

Lots of reasons. Josh mentioned some.

It could also be target conditioning, to funnel targets into a theorized kill zone. Remember how cheap flights got after 9/11 because of the lack of passengers? Trains were booked full, almost all the way through half a decade afterwards.

So, bomb a plane....everyone starts boarding trains instead.....bomb some trains/derail them when they're completely packed, ect. No where is safe, massive economic impacts, shredding of Constitution in the name of security instead of just becoming a more resilient society, easier to inflict casualties by bombing overcrowded highways (since no one is flying or taking the train anymore) ect...

It's really quite easy (in theory). I remember watching a TV show about the Navy SEALs as a kid, and some salty Chief with a huge mustache said, "It's not that we're that good. It's just that everyone else sucks." So, as for a cascade of events happening, I'm just not sure if our intelligence is really that good, or if the bad guys just suck. Either way, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened yet. I imagine the risk is greater over the next year or so being networks are probably going "offline" with the news of PRISM, making them harder to detect and influence.

/endrant


This sounds like nothing but generic islam-a-phobia.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnszgkE3O8g

[Slavex]

May 1996 I flew to NY from Vancouver BC. I had attended a wedding the night before the flight as best man and went straight from the Maid of Honors place to the airport for my flight. I was placed in the middle seat on the left side of the plane and had a middle eastern guy on either side of me. I asked for the window as I planned to sleep the entire flight but was told no by the one dude. Before we even took off, both guys were up and down multiple times going up to first class, going back the bathrooms, acting sketchy as kitten. I was annoyed, I had my walkman (remember those?) pushed into the seatback in front of me and the headphones cables running to my ears. Everytime clown 1 in the window seat got up I had to unplug and move for him. Eventually once we started to taxi the stewards made them sit. On take off as we were climbing, they started again. Opening over head bins, grabbing stuff, going back and forth. The stewards were pissed and kept giving them crap. Finally we leveled out and I fell asleep. I woke up to the clown 1 trying to climb over me and stepping my feet. I got mad and the stewards warned him to stay seated. I fell asleep again and woke up to my earbuds being pulled from my ears and clown 1 stepping on my feet again. I snapped, undid my seat belt, stood up and started wailing on the guy with my right while choking him with my left. Clown 2 tried to get out of his seat and help so I elbowed him in the face a bunch of times and then tried to bend clown 2 over the seat in front of me. The stewards rushed in, separated us and took me to the back of the plane. They were awesome, and really apologetic. At the back there was an entire row empty and they let me lay down and sleep there. On arrival at JFK (I think that's where we landed) I was met by the police and had to give a statement about the entire thing (I was 3rd off the plane with clown 1 and 2 being first off). The cops (of various agencies) were super nice and at no time was I ever told I did anything wrong. They got my bags for me and escorted me out of the airport. While standing out there clown 1 saw me and started yelling at me, he had a bunch of friends with him. At this point the flight crew happened to come out the doors, saw me, saw clown 1 and pulled me onto their waiting shuttle bus. They went out of their way to drop me at my hotel before being taken to theirs. Both the Captain and Co-pilot thanked me and I got a nice pin, which I've since lost. I really didn't think much about that flight until 9/11, and then I got severe chills.

[TheRoland]

May 1996...

You attacked some people on the plane for being annoying, and everyone thanked you for it? I feel like we might be missing some context from the story.

I've probably been Clown #1 on a long flight once or twice after bad sushi or terrible tacos.

[Slavex]

Not for being annoying, for ripping my headphones out of ears, and crushing my feet twice. It's hard to explain but being up for 48hrs straight for the wedding and being constantly pushed around by clown 1getting up and down and acting absolutely bizarre. Myself and the other passengers and the flight crew had serious issues with how these two guys were acting and the flight crew could not control them. In talking to many people since then, who work airline security, I've been told that these kind of incidents happened a lot before 9/11 and probably were test runs.