The Great .22 LR Drought.

[TR675]

/Rant on/. I can understand why everyone (that is, everyone who wasn't prepared ahead of time) freaked out at least three times in the last five years and bought every AR, AK, and pallet of 9mm, .223/5.56, 7.62, etc. etc. etc. I have opinions about the panic mentality, but I understand it. Even the guy I know who bought 30,000 rounds of .223 the day after Obama was elected. I think that's silly, but I at least understood the impulse.

What I absolutely cannot understand for the life of me are the idiots amassing and hoarding .22lr like they're going to have to fend off hordes of ravenous zombie squirrels three times a day for the rest of their natural life. Under what possible set of circumstances was .22lr ever going to disappear from the face of the earth? What is the justification for hoarding it? /Rant off/.

A gun range owner I know speculates that the .22lr drought is being intentionally caused by the gub'mint, supposedly because that will keep newbies and kids from learning how to shoot. Okay...

The lady running the gun department at my local Cabela's has a different theory. She blames the shortage on the 6 dudes who come into her store every morning looking for new shipments of .22lr to sell on gunbroker.

This is driving me nuts. If you have to be a hoarder - and dammit, if you are, knock it off already - don't hoard things that aren't rare or threatened or whatever. If you have the inclination to be a profiteer, for the love of god, please go play in traffic.

In conclusion, I would really like to go shoot my .22's and I'm mad because I ran out and can't find any boolets, so please let me know if you know where I can find any, plated preferred over LRN. The end.

[Chuck Haggard]

The scalpers are no doubt bending everyone else over, especially people who have jobs and can't wait around the sporting goods counter at Wal Mart or whatever every single day.

The very first chance I get to put a case on one of those guys I am going to do so.


A lot of people took to the shooting of .22s for cheap practice, and using things like conversion kits, hence a much greater demand for .22lr


I scored three 550 packs of Winchester the other day at our local Wal Mart, first .22lr I have seen since the great tard panic.

[SecondsCount]

The drought is being caused by the people you mention.

Eventually people will need to pay the mortgage, buy Christmas presents, and other more important activities which will free up ammo.

[TR675]

I didn't mention that I'm kind of mad at myself for finding a pallet of 6,300 rounds of Remington Golden Bullets on sale at Impact Guns and not buying it. I balked at the price. Indecision and thriftiness are not good bedfellows in this market.

Also, what the heck would I have done with 6,300 rounds of .22lr? I like to think that I would have shared.

[Tamara]

Also, what the heck would I have done with 6,300 rounds of .22lr?

Heck, I don't get in range time like most of this crowd, so that's almost three months of shootin' for me, right there!

[JV_]

I have a case of 22s, sounds like I should put it up on Gunbroker :)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk now Free ('http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

[RoyGBiv]

I didn't mention that I'm kind of mad at myself for finding a pallet of 6,300 rounds of Remington Golden Bullets on sale at Impact Guns and not buying it. I balked at the price. Indecision and thriftiness are not good bedfellows in this market.

Also, what the heck would I have done with 6,300 rounds of .22lr? I like to think that I would have shared.

Next time you find some, I'd be happy to split it with you if it's more than you need.
Assuming the cost isn't asinine. $0.07/rd ($35/500) or less seems to be the "reasonable" threshold currently.
I'd be pleased to find 1,500-2,000 rounds at that price... and I'm relatively local.

[TR675]

Heck, I don't get in range time like most of this crowd, so that's almost three months of shootin' for me, right there!

My 22/45 is sadly, sadly neglected. My 39A - even more so. It's sad. Did I say it was sad?

[TR675]

Next time you find some, I'd be happy to split it with you if it's more than you need.
Assuming the cost isn't asinine. $0.07/rd ($35/500) or less seems to be the "reasonable" threshold currently.
I'd be pleased to find 1,500-2,000 rounds at that price... and I'm relatively local.

Will do.

[CCT125US]

.22 is coming back in the Columbus area. $35 is the going rate for a brick / 500. I fight the urge to say "back in my day" a brick was $13. I just have a problem paying more than double, but nothing else is near that price for 500rds. I do need some decent .22 though, my Russian made fodder leaves much to be desired. I mean is cleanliness, reliability, accuracy, and consistant charge weight too much to ask for?

[Odin Bravo One]

Answer:

Before it rained.






Question:

When did Noah build The Ark?

[Dropkick]

$35 is the going rate for a brick / 500.

I'd gladly pay that if I could find it.

[Josh Runkle]

Answer:

Before it rained.






Question:

When did Noah build The Ark?

Absofruitly. Sorry guys, I'm definitely "hoarding" ammo. I used to buy ammo week to week, but if told it may be 6 months until I see more ammo, I'm going to buy 6 months worth (if I can afford it). This is where it leads to a local gun shop buying 10 years worth of ammo for the 30-40 customers they know by name and see once a week. The local gunshops ordering extravagantly large orders turns into a panic frenzy between manufacturer, distributor and local shops. Then, when you planned on buying 6 months of ammo and you go to your shop and they say, "I tried to skip the distributor and order direct from the manufacturer, but they're sold out for the next 2 years", the people who shoot on a weekly basis suddenly start re-thinking that maybe they should order a year's worth of ammo. Then it keeps spiraling. One of the best tricks I've found is that certain instructors have ammo agreements. IE: they have an agreement with a manufacturer where they have an allotment of ammo for any students. Some of the allotments are ridiculous. They're not like 2,000 rds per individual, they're like 2,000 per person per class. So, if no one else in a 12 person class wants to buy ammo, you could theoretically buy up to 24,000 rounds, and at half of the asking rate elsewhere. I've seen the same stuff for $700 on the Internet, but it's $300 if you're in the class. The ammo is tucked away just for those classes, so, you can buy as much as you want at a decent price as long as you won't resell it. I want a ton more .22, because when I go "plinking" or just shooting for fun, I don't want to shoot my training ammo, which is only used working drills.

[TR675]

Let's draw some distinctions here.

Buying in bulk is one thing. That's smart for any number of reasons, and I do it myself. I'm not discussing folks who do that. Before this whole mess started, I had at least a year's supply of 9mm, and, given the way I shoot it, at least 2 years worth of .223 and 7.62x39. Not necessarily because I'm smart and anticipated the ludicrous freak-out, which I was, but mostly because I buy in bulk. Hooray for me. Now I'm running low on 9mm, but that's just the way things are. I replenish as I can.

Hoarding, OTOH, is a semi-compulsive behavior - like buying up tens of thousands of rounds of...anything, really, and then sitting on it. Ok, if you're doing that you're not being "prepared", you're being insane, and, I might add, selfish. People who tried that stuff with food in Europe in the dark days of WWII got killed by mobs - rightly, wrongly, I'm not getting into that.

Folks who are scouring retail stores on a daily basis either to buy everything they can so they can build a fort with the ammo boxes or to sell it on gunbroker are - words fail me. They suck.

The whole thing about the ammunition freak-out is that, on every level it was unnecessary. But for .22? It's even more so. Why would anyone hoard .22? Nobody's shooting that much of it. There can't be that many doomsday preppers out there. The mindset behind it just...I don't get it.

[LOKNLOD]

I have to wonder if there are differences in profit margin on .22 ammo that are causing manufacturers to flat out not put as much into the pipeline right now. Is competition for manufacturing resources (labor, raw materials, machine time) causing ammo manufactures to choose between cranking out more 9mm, or more .22? Paying $35 for 500 rounds of .22 seems like robbery to us, but 500 rounds of 9mm is $100-$150 for 500 rds (closer to $150 lately). Does a 9mm round cost 4-5 times more to manufacture?

[TR675]

Don't start asking reasonable questions in my rant thread, dude.

[Odin Bravo One]

The whole thing about the ammunition freak-out is that, on every level it was unnecessary. But for .22? It's even more so. Why would anyone hoard .22? Nobody's shooting that much of it. There can't be that many doomsday preppers out there. The mindset behind it just...I don't get it.


As for the why hoard it/stockpile it/whatever label you want to apply?

At 1400 rounds per minute, even my large stash dwindles quickly.

I had over 50k of .22LR when the current shortage began. I have since donated (as in given for free) over 6500 rounds of it to BSA, buddies in need, and used it to bribe Fred (along with some 9mm) to help me move.

It dwindles more rapidly when I subsidize for those who failed to read the writing on the wall.

[MDS]

As for the why hoard it/stockpile it/whatever label you want to apply?

At 1400 rounds per minute, even my large stash dwindles quickly.

I had over 50k of .22LR when the current shortage began. I have since donated (as in given for free) over 6500 rounds of it to BSA, buddies in need, and used it to bribe Fred (along with some 9mm) to help me move.

It dwindles more rapidly when I subsidize for those who failed to read the writing on the wall.

Dude, you're like the 1% of ammo, abusing us 99%ers. Don't you think it's time you paid your fair share? ;)

[BN]

I remember buying a brick every payday for $7.99.

That's back when we were Survivalists not Preppers. :)

[Odin Bravo One]

Dude, you're like the 1% of ammo, abusing us 99%ers. Don't you think it's time you paid your fair share? ;)

I know right.........???

I almost feel guilty about it.

[Tamara]

At 1400 rounds per minute, even my large stash dwindles quickly.

I thought about you right after I hit "submit reply" actually. I'd hate to be keeping that thing fed in this climate. :eek:

[Clay]

I remember buying a brick every payday for $7.99.

That's back when we were Survivalists not Preppers. :)

+1

[MGW]

I guy I know told me peppers are buying all they can get because they believe that when the economy collapses they will be able to use it to barter for necessities. Apparently some author that is big in those circles wrote a book that says people should invest in .22 because of that.

That's on top of all the "usual" prepper reasons like...well, I'm sure you've heard them all.

[Tamara]

Apparently some author that is big in those circles wrote a book that says people should invest in .22 because of that.

Some freak named "Jeff Cooper". He said something like .22LR would be "ballistic wampum" after the Russians nuked us or something.

[Sunday]

I'd gladly pay that if I could find it.That is why ammo prices are so inflated .

[Sunday]

The drought is being caused by the people you mention.

Eventually people will need to pay the mortgage, buy Christmas presents, and other more important activities which will free up ammo.3 packs causing the drought?

[LHS]

I'm just kicking myself for buying a bunch of Golden Bullet crap. That stuff is absolute junk, and doesn't run for crap in any of my guns. I'll gladly trade my GB stash for Fed or Winchester fodder.

[Totem Polar]

I have to wonder if there are differences in profit margin on .22 ammo that are causing manufacturers to flat out not put as much into the pipeline right now...

I'm sure there are others here in the industry who might know more, but I'm given to understand that my home boys from Lewiston are still putting out 4 million rounds of .22LR a day. This .22 sitch is more about crazy demand than retarded supply.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm sure there are others here in the industry who might know more, but I'm given to understand that my home boys from Lewiston are still putting out 4 million rounds of .22LR a day. This .22 sitch is more about crazy demand than retarded supply.

^This^


If you do the math, and divide boxes of ammo to just every Wal Mart in the US, each store gets few boxes of ammo, and there is a hoard of douchebags competing with shooters to get those boxes.

[hufnagel]

I just picked up 6300 rounds of Remington Golden Bullet and 5500 rounds of Federal 750. $1155 shipped. yea that hurts at almost 10c/round... but I was tired of waiting to shoot my BRAND NEW gun, and it was 2/3 the price of my local shops... they all want 15c/round, or more! hopefully I'll be out of the need to buy supply chain now for a while, and prices will drop.

[TR675]

As for the why hoard it/stockpile it/whatever label you want to apply?

At 1400 rounds per minute, even my large stash dwindles quickly.

I had over 50k of .22LR when the current shortage began. I have since donated (as in given for free) over 6500 rounds of it to BSA, buddies in need, and used it to bribe Fred (along with some 9mm) to help me move.

It dwindles more rapidly when I subsidize for those who failed to read the writing on the wall.

If you built up a stash in fat times - however big - and replenish as needed, I'm not talking about you. I'm irritated at the people who clean out five gun stores in an afternoon so they can build a throne of Minimag boxes to sit on.

Re: the writing on the wall - I admit the current .22 craze caught me by surprise. "Obama's going to ban AR's! So buy all the .22!" I'm not sure that people should be expected to make that logical leap.

Something else to keep in mind: most of our fellow shooters don't keep a big supply on hand. They buy as needed, a box or two to go to the range. That's the vast majority of our fellow 2nd Amendment supporters. A lot of them don't have the discretionary time and money to care and feed for an American 180 (which, by the way, is awesome) or buy 11,000 rounds at once. I think the hoarding mentality hurts them, and by extension positive gun culture by keeping them away from the range.

[Chuck Haggard]

I think the hoarding mentality hurts them, and by extension positive gun culture by keeping them away from the range.


^This^


Lack of ammo is doing long term damage to the gun culture, IMHO.

[John Ralston]

I buy a brick or two every time I happen to be at the LGS. I don't shoot enough to use it up, so my supply builds...I wouldn't call it hoarding (you might). Having it on hand when you don't isn't really my problem. I have the same issue you do with target ammo for my daughter. I buy when I can find it, and so does everyone else, which means it is hard to find. Supply and demand. If a guy wants to buy 50,000 rounds to put in his garage, is he any different than the guy that wants to dump it all into the berm behind the target over the next 12 months? You still didn't have a chance to buy it, and neither guy is going to help you out.

[TR675]

Well, if you never shoot it, then why do you keep buying ammo? All you're doing is keeping it out of hands of people who would actually like to use it.

Both guys in your example are examples of a "gotta get mine" attitude in our society that I find distasteful. Never mind that Joe the Plumber would like to shoot 200 rounds with his daughter on Sunday, I want to dig a deep hole in my yard and fill it with $15K worth of sealed ammo tins because I want to shoot it more/think the apocalypse is coming/think it's pretty/whatever.

This isn't a critique of supply and demand or the market economy. It's a critique of what seems to me to be a disregard for the larger community.

[JeffJ]

Should I also not save money? What about emergency food rations? Where does one draw the line between having adequate reserves of a consumable product and hoarding?

I agree that it isn't good for the shooting community at large that ammo is unavailable, it's unfortunate that some people cannot get what they want at the price they want to pay for it - but, tough kitten. If demand for a good increases the price and/or the availability of that good is going to be impacted, and opportunities will be created for enterprising individuals. You might find the "gotta get mine" attitude distasteful, I find the attitude of "that's not fair, I haven't allocated my resources the same as you so gimme, gimme, gimme" distasteful.

I also think it's a real stretch to think that those who have been building a surplus stock of ammunition over time (or even quickly, especially in the run up to the election) are grabbing bulk packs of .22 and gleefully thinking about when Joe the plumber isn't going to be able to take his daughter shooting.

[Josh Runkle]

Well, if you never shoot it, then why do you keep buying ammo? All you're doing is keeping it out of hands of people who would actually like to use it.

Both guys in your example are examples of a "gotta get mine" attitude in our society that I find distasteful. Never mind that Joe the Plumber would like to shoot 200 rounds with his daughter on Sunday, I want to dig a deep hole in my yard and fill it with $15K worth of sealed ammo tins because I want to shoot it more/think the apocalypse is coming/think it's pretty/whatever.

This isn't a critique of supply and demand or the market economy. It's a critique of what seems to me to be a disregard for the larger community.

This is America dude. If a guy's life dream is to fill a room with ammo he never shoots, so be it. If I won the lottery, I'd have pallets of the stuff delivered to my house. Why?

Here's my thinking. I'm taking an Emergency Management course concurrently with a Disaster Aid course. The idea is that, if you live in a flood zone, preparing (prepping) for floods is smart, not silly. If you love in a tornado area, having a shelter is smart, not silly. Prepping for a Martian invasion is not only silly but crazy. That being said, while floods and tornadoes are very unlikely for those that live in the peak zones (to occur on the exact same property) it is still viewed as smart to prepare for the possibility of a problem that most likely will not occur, but instead "may" occur.

It is highly unlikely that the government will ban ammo or firearms. However it still fits into the category of something that is highly unlikely but still "may" occur. Prepping (preparing) against that possibility AFTER people have secured their persons against more likely possibilities should be viewed as smart, not silly.

Additionally, ammo doesn't really expire. Modern ammo lasts 10 times the lengths of MREs and other expirable gear.

So, even if the person doesn't shoot it now, they have a product bought in bulk that they can shoot at any later date they wish to. They have bought it before any future possible bans or taxes, so cheaper, easier to find, and they haven't necessarily invested in an impossibility.

I agree that short-term thinking always leads to negatives for all involved parties, but this country has SO many more short-term thinking problems...

Also, consider that a huge segment of the uneducated firearm owners in this country own .40 cal, and they still can walk in just about anywhere and buy a couple boxes and head to the range anytime they want.

So, if I could buy pallets I would, because it would eventually get shot, even if it took me 3-4 years to do it.

[MGW]

Deleted.

[John Ralston]

Well, if you never shoot it, then why do you keep buying ammo? All you're doing is keeping it out of hands of people who would actually like to use it.

Both guys in your example are examples of a "gotta get mine" attitude in our society that I find distasteful. Never mind that Joe the Plumber would like to shoot 200 rounds with his daughter on Sunday, I want to dig a deep hole in my yard and fill it with $15K worth of sealed ammo tins because I want to shoot it more/think the apocalypse is coming/think it's pretty/whatever.

This isn't a critique of supply and demand or the market economy. It's a critique of what seems to me to be a disregard for the larger community.


Because I can...and it only makes sense, since I drove all the way there, why not pick up a couple bricks and save myself a little money and time later. I also have about 25 cases of 12 GA that I bought 6-8 years ago, using the same formula. I bought 3-5 boxes every time I was at the LGS and it was on sale (3 for $10 back then). I have more 12 GA than I could shoot in the next couple years, but I have it if I need it, and I bought it for less than half of what I can get it for now. Do I feel bad that I did it? NOPE. Am I preparing for the Zombies? NOPE. Do I have more than you? Yes, but I bought it when I could and have it here, now, for when I do want to shoot it.

One guy in my example is a guy named Jerry Miculek. He shoots morel like 80,000 rounds of 22 a year in preparation for things like the Chevy Challenge. I wouldn't call him a "Gotta have mine" kind of guy. He does what he needs to do in order to win.

[shooter220]

I don't think of myself as stockpiling .22LR, I think of myself as preparing to teach my kids. I actually have more confidence in being able to get centerfire ammo than I do rimfire, so I have stopped shooting the rimfire stuff. While I am years away from teaching my boys to shoot, I want to have enough ammo on hand to not rely on paying $50/brick for it.

I also have to add that I must be the oldest person on this board because I distinctly remember WInchester Super-X .22 for $9.99 a brick at Service Merchandise, and Federal Lightnings for about $8.70 or so a brick. If I were smarter I would have bought a warehouse full of it all, and sold it off at the peak at $50/brick.

-shooter

[EMC]

When I go shoot with my Dad we shoot his 1970's 22 ammo first. It's like rotating your food storage. We also get all nostalgic about the price tag stickers. While it cycles worse in semi-autos than new stuff, I wish he had been a bit more of a hoarder back in those days.