Yellow Vs Orange Sights: Real World Application

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I currently work in the heavy/highway construction industry and am involved with creating and implementing our company's safety protocols and procedures. Like most of you, I am avid shooter and general "gun guy". Recently I started shopping for a new set of night sights for my primary pistol. Based upon the reviews found here and elsewhere as well as my previous experience with other products, I decided upon the Trijicon HD sights. However, like many people, I could not decide whether to purchase sights with an orange or yellow front sight. As I ponder this decision, I was reminded that I encounter this same debate constantly with high visibility warning signs and safety gear for myself and the other employees of the company. OSHA has pretty much discouraged the use of orange vests on highway or job site workers except for certain applications. Fluorescent yellow, with reflective stripes, has become the standard of the industry and is apparent on almost every construction site you pass in the United States. However many of the State DOT's across the country have done their own studies regarding reflectivity. Here is an excerpt from a study that found orange to be superior:

"A number of studies directly dealing with safety garments have also been conducted.
Michon et al.’s (1969) field experiment evaluated the influence of color and size on the
conspicuity of safety clothing on a 12-km track in a diverse background setting, color
combination, and complexity. Sixteen colored cardboard rectangles (white, yellow,
fluorescent yellow, fluorescent orange) were placed at different positions along the track.
Subjects were required to blow their horn when they detected the "safety garment" along the
track. The rectangles were presented to the subjects at distances of either 100 or 200 m.
Overall, Michon et al. (1969) found that fluorescent orange resulted in the lowest reaction
times followed by yellow, fluorescent yellow, and white. They found that an area of about
1,200 cm2
is a sufficient amount of fluorescent material, which is roughly equivalent to a 30-
cm-wide band around the upper part of the body"

While here is another study that found yellow to be superior:

"In 1990, Lesley (1995) conducted a survey dealing with the color of safety vests in
the State of Minnesota under the sponsorship of MNDOT. The results of the survey were as
follows: fluorescent yellow, 5,796; fluorescent green, 2,706; fluorescent orange, 2,23 1;
fluorescent pink, 2,017. Of 119 voters who described themselves as color blind, 115 selected
the fluorescent yellow."

Source: http://www.safetyline.com/Illinois%20Transportation%20Research%20Center%20Re port%20No%20%20ITRC%2000%2001-1.pdf


I will try to find more studies from the Government and other safety bodies. This one article is all that I have on hand for the time being. I believe the florescent yellow would be slightly easier to pick up on at speed, but that is just my humble opinion. I think if I were involved in a shoot out on a job site where everyone was wearing a yellow vest, I may have some difficulty tracking my sights but that is...pretty unlikely(???). I am curious as to what you members here think of this though.

[ToddG]

Having tried both and measured my results I much prefer orange over green, yellow, chartreuse, etc.

I know other guys who've done the same testing and come to the same conclusion.
I know other guys who've done the same testing and come to the opposite conclusion.

The problem with the safety-color studies is that they're not looking for the same functionality as a high visibility front sight. That's doubly true when you talk about reflective yellow material versus ordinary (non-reflective) orange material.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Excellent point Todd. Thank you for sharing your findings. I agree that pistol sights vs. safety vests is not exactly a fair caparison. I did however think the information above was at least worth a look/thought.

[Tamara]

I tend to prefer the orange (Ameriglos on my M&Ps) but I has a little bit of a sad because the yellow-green (Ameriglo on my G19) fluoresces like a kittenkitten at the drop of a photon and the orange does not do that.

[GJM]

I have both yellow and orange HD sights.

Overall, I prefer the orange. They pop better in bright light. I also prefer orange to yellow in a rural environment (read Alaska and the west) as there is a lot of naturally occurring yellow in nature.

I think the yellow may be slightly brighter in a dim environment, but where you can still see the color.

I am running orange to yellow at about a 3 to 1 ratio. One thing handy about the yellow is I can differentiate otherwise identical pistols. :)

[ChrisG]

I read somewhere (in the context of motorcycle safety) that the reason florescent orange appears particularly bright under natural light is that it absorbs UV light and remits it in the visible spectrum. However, it is considerably less bright under artificial light (street lamps, headlights, etc.) which has little or no UV light. "Hi-viz" lime green,by contrast, does not rely on UV light absorption/re-emission and is brighter under more diverse array of lighting conditions. This was the reason for OSHA's preference for yellow-green over orange. Unfortunately, I can't track down the reference (it disappeared from where I originally read it). However, it may be worth comparing the two colors under both artificial lighting as well as sunlight before establishing a definitive personal preference.

[CCT125US]

My sights get treated with Zoya brand nail polish, color is called Annie. It is a bright orange with metallic flecks in it. It is the best I have found. My wife has many colors of which to choose from, she actually asks me what colors to buy so that I can try them out. (On the gun, not me, just to be clear)

[Chuck Haggard]

One more vote for orange.

I wanted to have the yellow/green Ameriglos work for me, I really did, but they wash out badly in bright sunlight, for me, and my eyes.

[ADKilla]

One more vote for orange.

I wanted to have the yellow/green Ameriglos work for me, I really did, but they wash out badly in bright sunlight, for me, and my eyes.

My front sights are all orange for this exact reason.

[Paxamus]

I've got the Trijicon HD's in yellow and after reading all of this am wondering should I have gotten orange? I'm happy with the yellows and will probably leave them though

[rsa-otc]

My sights get treated with Zoya brand nail polish, color is called Annie. It is a bright orange with metallic flecks in it. It is the best I have found. My wife has many colors of which to choose from, she actually asks me what colors to buy so that I can try them out. (On the gun, not me, just to be clear)

Not exactly the same band, but all my sights treated similarly with florescent orange with metallic flakes. In most regular lighting conditions the metallic really pops.

I find that even with my progressive glasses not getting a clear classic sight picture I can get accurate high speed hits with the contrast of black rears and that orange front sight.

[Tamara]

Seriously, orange Ameriglo, y u not fluoresce? I hit the chartreuse ones with a flashlight for two seconds and they glow like a searchlight forever. :confused:

[Savage Hands]

It all comes down to personal preference. I've owned both the orange and chartreuse colored Ameriglo CAP sights and while I heavily prefer the orange model, my father who's been in a few gunfights prefers the chartreuse. Go figure :p

[Savage Hands]

Seriously, orange Ameriglo, y u not fluoresce? I hit the chartreuse ones with a flashlight for two seconds and they glow like a searchlight forever. :confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/queenanthai/Made%20Of%20Fail/shutupandtakemymoney_zps3bbbd52e.jpeg

[Casual Friday]

I like orange.

[Tamara]

I like orange.

You're just saying that because Todd. :p

[saints75]

For me, I would go orange. Every time I look at the yellow sites my eyes get uncomfortable. The orange seems to work better for me.

[BoppaBear]

I've got orange Trij HD's on my P2000sk, and will put them on my P30 as soon as I can find them.

I like the orange.

[Tamara]

I do prefer the orange for the reason that it seems less likely to wash out or disappear against a background; I'm unlikely to need to bust a cap into a guy wearing a Tennessee Vols jersey as he flees into a patch of California poppies and sticky monkey-flowers.

But I still wish they could make it fluoresce.

[Casual Friday]

You're just saying that because Todd. :p

:p. I first learned that my eyes pick up red and orange the best when I took up bow hunting. In all lighting conditions I could always pick up the red or orange sight pins better than the yellow.

But yeah, its mostly because Todd...:cool:

[ToddG]

Tam's experience mirrors mine:


I love the luminescence of the yellow CAP sights and wish they'd jump whatever hurdle is keeping them from doing it with the orange ones.
The yellow sights wash out against light-colored targets and even cardboard for me, as well as against a lot of backstops. It's like a dim white at speed at least to my eyes.

[Byron]

I do prefer the orange...
But I still wish they could make it fluoresce.

Tam's experience mirrors mine...
I love the luminescence of the yellow CAP sights and wish they'd jump whatever hurdle is keeping them from doing it with the orange ones.
Unfortunately (as I understand it) the hurdle is chemical in nature. I wish I knew the details well enough to elaborate, but it's a bit over my head.

There's a company that makes amazing glow powders and paints: http://glowinc.com
I have no financial interest in the company, but I have purchased their products before. When they say that their GITD paint is the brightest consumers will find, they aren't kidding. Their brightest green holds a "charge" for an insanely long time (of course most of the duration is a lower-level glow than what you'll first see after a fresh charge).

Notice, however, that their orange glow paint (http://glowinc.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=2) is only good for a few minutes, and even then is much, much dimmer than a green/yellow.
They have some technical articles which some people might find interesting: http://glowinc.com/glow-in-the-dark/info.aspx

Not saying a glowing orange CAP will never be made, but I don't think the technology is currently available.

[Chuck Haggard]

Ameriglo tried to make orange glowy front sights at one time, it no workee

[Tamara]

Unfortunately (as I understand it) the hurdle is chemical in nature.

Way to rain on my parade, there, Debbie Downer. :(


;)

[Chuck Haggard]

Way to rain on my parade, there, Debbie Downer. :(


;)

Science is a bitch, ain't it?

[Clyde from Carolina]

Science is a bitch, ain't it?

Yup. I have gone to Sig lite sights due to cheapness and commonality of sight picture purposes on my primary using guns. I may have to try the low-tech orange paint on the front sight thing as I really like the orange HDs I have tried. I have a yellow Ameriglo CAP on a Gen 1 Glock that is okay, but I do prefer the orange Ameriglos and the orange HDs. Just my eyes but they must be like Todd's as far as discerning colors.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The orange HDs fluoresce. Not all that bright or long, perhaps, but they do.

[Byron]

Science is a bitch, ain't it?

http://i.qkme.me/3qofmo.jpg

(One of my favorite lines of all time. People don't always appreciate it when you bust it out at "serious" times............. especially if you do so in the pirate voice.)

[Chuck Haggard]

People don't always appreciate it when you bust it out at "serious" times............. especially if you do so in the pirate voice.

That's the best time for it, IMHO

[JSGlock34]

Trijicon's FAQ page (http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/support/faq_HDNS.php) on the HD sights touches on this and provides some numbers - it appears for any given exposure, the yellow sights will retain the charge roughly twice as long as the orange sights.


What is the benefit of the Trijicon HD™ Night Sights?

Trijicon’s internal testing has shown that most users are appreciably (10%-30%) faster getting center-mass hits on a target with the HD™ Night Sights than with standard pistol sights. Our data shows this regardless of the user’s current proficiency level in pistol shooting, and is due to the ability to obtain a faster focus on the front sight of the HD Night Sights.

What is photoluminescent paint?

Photoluminescent paint is often referred to as “Glow Paint” or “Glow-in-the-dark” paint. The paint has a unique property which allows it to absorb light from a multitude of sources and then releases the light, causing a glow-in-the-dark effect when in a darker area. Sources that can “charge” the photoluminescent paint include the sun, fluorescent light and LED flashlight.

How long does the photoluminescent paint glow on the front sight?

This varies based on previous light exposure type and duration. The duration of visibility for various conditions are as follows:

Light Exposure Type/"Charge" Duration/Length of Time Yellow Paint Glows/Length of Time Orange Paint Glows
Full Sunlight/5 Minutes/13 Minutes/6 Minutes
Indoor Fluorescent Lighting/10 Minutes/10 Minutes/5 Minutes
LED Flashlight/15 Seconds/7 Minutes/4 Minutes

Note that the perceived “glow” time will vary amongst different users based on their own eye-adaptation to light. The glow will be most significant during the first half of the above listed durations.

The sight was designed so that the short-term glow of the photoluminescence paint would aid in transitional lighting situations (such as when immediately entering a dark room from a lighted environment). The tritium lamps provide a long-term glow.

Why does the yellow glow longer than orange?

This is due to the nature of the light absorption/reflection properties of the respective paint color pigments.

[Byron]

That's the best time for it, IMHO
Couldn't agree with you more :cool:


Kind of back to the original topic, I really would encourage anyone with a curious mind to order some products from Glow Inc.*

I notice that their main page is currently throwing a malware warning in Chrome, but accessing store pages like this one (http://glowinc.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=3) don't report an issue. Looks like it's an issue with their forum.

The paints are easy and convenient. The powders are neat since they can be mixed into an epoxy or other medium.

Fair warning that their shipping charges can be nasty (I believe part of this is due to the MSDS on the products, but I could be mistaken). Definitely not friendly towards smaller orders.

[*Now that it's fresh in my mind, I'm exercising great restraint in not spending money on glowy things... especially this close to Halloween. Maybe part of my encouragement is a desire to live vicariously and see if anyone creates a cool project.]

[psalms144.1]

All attempts at scientific discussion aside, I've used both Yellow and Orange high visibility sights, and found consistently that the Yellows (which look more green to my eye) tend to disappear against most "natural" colors and back stops. Orange is typically very visible against nearly any target or backdrop for me...

Regards,

Kevin

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I have really enjoyed the debate and information here in this thread. Thank you all for your contributions. The other night I placed an order through Trijicon for a set of orange HD sights. I am very eager to test these out on my P30, but Trijicon is currently quoting a 12 week lead time. Oh well, my current Meps have black sharpie on the rear and yellow/green hi-vis pain on the front. They will be more than adequate for the time being.

[justintime]

For me the yellow works a lot better in perfect lighting conditions. The orange works well at all times.

[flux]

I find my eyes seem to pick up the yellow quicker, personal thing I guess.

[dbateman]

I find the fibre sights to be too much for me my eyes seem to like plane black sights or a small gold bead front.

I can shoot the hi vis sights but I do better without them ?

[justintime]

I have a hard time getting a REALLY clear front sight focus with them. Its like my mind is content with seeing it so I focus almost equally between the target and the sight... I shoot better with all black sights for precision for this reason, but I prefer how easily I can track and get onto the target faster with the high vis options.