Shabaab plot to attack London planned to be 'similar to ... Mumbai'

[Kyle Reese]

The bad guys aren't showing signs that they intend to stop...

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/09/shabaab_plot_to_atta.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LongWarJournalSiteWide+%28The +Long+War+Journal+%28Site-Wide%29%29#ixzz2g8F25c22

[hufnagel]

I want them to try it in a mall in New Jersey.

[BaiHu]

I want them to try it in a mall in New Jersey.

Why? We can't have guns in NJ. Not even the bad guys have them here :p

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[RoyGBiv]

The bad guys aren't showing signs that they intend to stop...

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/09/shabaab_plot_to_atta.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LongWarJournalSiteWide+%28The +Long+War+Journal+%28Site-Wide%29%29#ixzz2g8F25c22

Coming to a theater (pun intended) near you. Soon. :mad:

[GardoneVT]

I want them to try it in a mall in New Jersey.

Obama and Feinstein doubtlessly agree with that sentiment.

[Tamara]

I want them to try it in a mall in New Jersey.

That they haven't already is proof that they don't really grasp the American psyche.

[GardoneVT]

That they haven't already is proof that they don't really grasp the American psyche.

Or ,perhaps,that our alphabet soup of LE agencies makes the logistics of a US op impossible to execute.

[BLR]

Or ,perhaps,that our alphabet soup of LE agencies makes the logistics of a US op impossible to execute.

Do you believe that?

[EMC]

It's easier for them to just start wildfires in the heat of summer.

[hufnagel]

Why? We can't have guns in NJ. Not even the bad guys have them here :p

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I have no doubt that many of the "persons" I see cruising the malls are armed... regardless of the laws.

I could see it now though... a terrorist group starts shooting and all of the sudden they're caught in the crossfire of gang war. Because gang bangers will start shooting sideways as they run for the door while holding their pants up. That doesn't even include the guidos with pistols hidden in their chest hair.

[JHC]

Do you believe that?

I believe we can bring lot more hurt a lot faster than evidenced in Kenya.

[Odin Bravo One]

Or ,perhaps,that our alphabet soup of LE agencies makes the logistics of a US op impossible to execute.


Do you believe that?

Yeah.............no. I don't believe it for one minute. I am very pro-LE, and have a lot of faith their ability to deter, detect, and dismantle plots before they turn into tragedy. But in order to achieve their objectives, they cannot miss. Not even once. The booger eaters on the other hand don't have to be perfect. They only have to get it right once.


I believe we can bring lot more hurt a lot faster than evidenced in Kenya.

Most likely. However comparing the response of a first world super power to a third world country is not exactly apples to apples. But a first world super power response wouldn't be without it's share of challenges. Imagine a situation like that, where there were legally/lawfully armed citizens, off-duty cops, etc. Group of thugs roll in and start hosing down the customers. 15 on 1, or even 2 or 3 or 4 is not good odds for the armed citizen, or the off-duty LEO(s). There is still going to be a significant time delay between the time the shooting starts, and the time the shooting stops, and the body count will be based on a variety of factors, not simply response time and firepower. We are fortunate that most terrorists are morons, and lack the imagination, ingenuity, and vision to maximize the results from their efforts. It's not always that the good guys are better, a lot of times it's that the bad guys just plain suck.

Personally I hate to see it happen at a mall anywhere in the world, let alone in the U.S. Even if it is Jersey. Just because Jersey isn't my favorite of the 50 states doesn't mean that the people who live there should be offered up as lambs to the slaughter so our open carry gun-totin, Starbucks coffee drinkin', Pro-2A crowd can live out their delusional armed citizen hero fantasy with Rush Limbaugh playing over the loudspeakers to show up them pesky democrats with proof that guns are good.

[BLR]

Personally I hate to see it happen at a mall anywhere in the world, let alone in the U.S. Even if it is Jersey. Just because Jersey isn't my favorite of the 50 states doesn't mean that the people who live there should be offered up as lambs to the slaughter so our open carry gun-totin, Starbucks coffee drinkin', Pro-2A crowd can live out their delusional armed citizen hero fantasy with Rush Limbaugh playing over the loudspeakers to show up them pesky democrats with proof that guns are good.

Can we offer up Piers, Chris Mathews, the CNN cast, the MSNBC cast, Mikey Moore, Maher, Mikey Vic, and the rest? I have no moral issues with doing that.

At all.

*NSA/IRS Disclaimer: That was sarcasm/hyperbole. I'm not serious. Though, I wish the above people (excluding Vic, he needs to pay for what he did), would just go away and live out their communist fantasies in a real communist state rather than dick with my freedom, money, and rights.

[NETim]

Personally I hate to see it happen at a mall anywhere in the world, let alone in the U.S. Even if it is Jersey. Just because Jersey isn't my favorite of the 50 states doesn't mean that the people who live there should be offered up as lambs to the slaughter so our open carry gun-totin, Starbucks coffee drinkin', Pro-2A crowd can live out their delusional armed citizen hero fantasy with Rush Limbaugh playing over the loudspeakers to show up them pesky democrats with proof that guns are good.

Sarah?! Is that you?

[BJJ]

The fact that we have not had one active shooter event perpetrated in the name of Al Queda is perplexing to me. Two guys with one pump shotgun each could wreak major havoc at a mall or school. Surely AQ has people in the US right now. Surely they could get access to two pump shotguns. The histeria over an event like that committed in the name of terrorism would dwarf the reaction over the ones we have that are fueled by mental illness. If anyone has commentary on why smaller scale simple to execute events are not happening in the U.S. I would like to hear it.

Obviously, I am very happy that these things are not happening but I don't understand why not given the circumstances.

[NEPAKevin]

Obviously, I am very happy that these things are not happening but I don't understand why not given the circumstances.

One possible reason...

http://psbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/chuck-norris.jpg

[littlejerry]

The bad guys aren't showing signs that they intend to stop...

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/09/shabaab_plot_to_atta.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LongWarJournalSiteWide+%28The +Long+War+Journal+%28Site-Wide%29%29#ixzz2g8F25c22

Unpossible. There are no guns allowed in London.

[1slow]

If I read the article correctly, Britain knows and allows about 100,000 residents to travel abroad and train with the terrorists and come back ?
The inmates are running the asylum !

[TGS]

If I read the article correctly, Britain knows and allows about 100,000 residents to travel abroad and train with the terrorists and come back ?
The inmates are running the asylum !

Might want to try reading that again.

[GardoneVT]

The fact that we have not had one active shooter event perpetrated in the name of Al Queda is perplexing to me. Two guys with one pump shotgun each could wreak major havoc at a mall or school. Surely AQ has people in the US right now. Surely they could get access to two pump shotguns. The histeria over an event like that committed in the name of terrorism would dwarf the reaction over the ones we have that are fueled by mental illness. If anyone has commentary on why smaller scale simple to execute events are not happening in the U.S. I would like to hear it.

Obviously, I am very happy that these things are not happening but I don't understand why not given the circumstances.

One:because an averted disaster doesnt get as much press.

Two:just throwing out a hunch,but if the LE establishment starts talking about terrorism plans they've foiled it tells the bad guys how to future proof their plans.

Three:Chuck Norris doesn't need sleep.

[NETim]

The fact that we have not had one active shooter event perpetrated in the name of Al Queda is perplexing to me. Two guys with one pump shotgun each could wreak major havoc at a mall or school. Surely AQ has people in the US right now. Surely they could get access to two pump shotguns. The histeria over an event like that committed in the name of terrorism would dwarf the reaction over the ones we have that are fueled by mental illness. If anyone has commentary on why smaller scale simple to execute events are not happening in the U.S. I would like to hear it.

Obviously, I am very happy that these things are not happening but I don't understand why not given the circumstances.

I believe there's a purposely low key and very serious game of cat n' mouse being played within our borders. So serious and so immense that even our giant brained CinC couldn't ignore it, hence the failure to maintain the campaign promise of shutting down Gitmo. Once in office and confronted with reality even his seriously occluded collectivist mind couldn't deny the threat.

How easy would it be, despite the "No Guns Allowed" signs at say, the Mall of America, to stage a Mumbai event on Black Friday? Think of the headlines. Think of the economic impact on the US. Surely AQ sees this and would jump at the chance.

Why hasn't it happened? Intel. Damn good intel. (And maybe a little luck too.)

Still I think it's comin'.

My $0.02.

[peterb]

Large, organized attacks on highly visible targets make sense in their own way, but I think small attacks on seemingly random targets would be more frightening. Remember the DC sniper attacks? There was no apparent pattern, so there was nothing one could try to minimize risk other than not going out at all.

[BaiHu]

One possible reason...

http://psbmx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/chuck-norris.jpg

I believe that's at least 3 reasons: beard and 2 guns just to start and then we would have to wade into the fists, feet and possibly his Bronco with a 6 pack of beer.

The man single handedly keeps most of us safe just by his pure existence alone. I believe we would've been swallowed by a black hole if it wasn't for his gravitas :D

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[JHC]

Why hasn't it happened? Intel. Damn good intel. (And maybe a little luck too.)

Still I think it's comin'.

My $0.02.

Yep. No accident. Agree 100%

[LHS]

Yep. No accident. Agree 100%

I'm still surprised they haven't pulled a Beslan yet. And that thought terrifies me, seeing just how undefended our schools are. And that thought enrages me, because I see how purposely undefended our schools are.

[jetfire]

A thought: perhaps part of the reason that we've not had an attack in that style is because if Johnny Jihadi wants to saddle up and go kill Americans, it's a lot easier for him to sneak into Afghanistan and do it there.

[NETim]

A thought: perhaps part of the reason that we've not had an attack in that style is because if Johnny Jihadi wants to saddle up and go kill Americans, it's a lot easier for him to sneak into Afghanistan and do it there.

Some are satisfied with killing Americans in any way they can. The big fish want to bring America to her knees. A coordinated attack on Black Friday would be devastating on America's economy. Instilling fear of the mall experience would hurt bad.

[JHC]

A thought: perhaps part of the reason that we've not had an attack in that style is because if Johnny Jihadi wants to saddle up and go kill Americans, it's a lot easier for him to sneak into Afghanistan and do it there.

I think that's a big factor. That could be described as a "flypaper" effect of overseas operations.

But it could come from home growns too. 60 terr plots broken up were detailed out in a Heritage Foundation report (Special Report No.137 from July 2013). Everybody is just a knucklehead until they pull one off. But good point, it's clearly harder to manage the logistics and avoid detection here.

[Tamara]

The big fish want to bring America to her knees. A coordinated attack on Black Friday would be devastating on America's economy. Instilling fear of the mall experience would hurt bad.

I think I first blurted that out on TFL back in '01. Eight guys and... heck, "fear of the mall experience" would be the least of our worries; malls are a rapidly dwindling slice of the retail economy. Use the right guns, though, and you could bring the Great Satan to the brink of civil war for a total operational cost less than a new Honda Civic. :(

[TGS]

heck, "fear of the mall experience" would be the least of our worries; malls are a rapidly dwindling slice of the retail economy.

Just imagine the future conspiracy theorists going on about how "Mumbai America" was actually a behind-the-scenes job by the Globalists to destroy Brick'n'mortar business by driving its customers towards the internet for shopping.

[Odin Bravo One]

Sarah?! Is that you?

I think I missed the reference........

[Tamara]

I think I missed the reference........

I am assuming he interpreted your post as disdainful of armed self defense. ("Sarah Brady")

I do not understand why he read it that way.

[Tamara]

Just imagine the future conspiracy theorists going on about how "Mumbai America" was actually a behind-the-scenes job by the Globalists to destroy Brick'n'mortar business by driving its customers towards the internet for shopping.

You know how I loves me the Reynolds Wrap Yarmulke crowd... :rolleyes:

[NETim]

I think I missed the reference........

I know you've got your head on straight but that particular portion of the post came off as a little harsh IMHO.

And a little out of character.

[Odin Bravo One]

I am assuming he interpreted your post as disdainful of armed self defense. ("Sarah Brady")

Ah..........yeah I missed the reference.

ETA:

Harsh? I suppose to some.

But to wish for a terror attack to be attempted in the US is a little "harsh". And a little out of character for this forum.

..........IMHO.


Perhaps my out of character response is due to my patience being absent. I simply want to be able to exercise my rights under the Second Ammendment. But the ignorant bravado displayed by exhibiting those behaviors I referenced in my statement is damaging to everyone who owns a gun. It is also ignorant, simplistic, and selfish. So if I publicly "call out" those who embarrass not only themselves and this forum, but the rest of the gun owning community, I am not going to pull punches. I call it like I see it.

If it is "harsh", it's because there is only so much ignorant stupidity I can take before I turn off my filter that allows me to be polite.

[NETim]

I think I first blurted that out on TFL back in '01. Eight guys and... heck, "fear of the mall experience" would be the least of our worries; malls are a rapidly dwindling slice of the retail economy. Use the right guns, though, and you could bring the Great Satan to the brink of civil war for a total operational cost less than a new Honda Civic. :(

As explored by Bracken's "EFAD" series. A bunch of true believers with AK's and pipe bombs shooting up a crowded commercial venue or two would trigger a MASSIVE effort to enact "sensible" gun laws. And we would have to pass them to find out what's in the law.

No doubt retail brick n' mortar stores are rapidly losing ground and will continue to give up turf but there's no doubt a series of closely spaced Nairobi's would have a major impact. So many are so easily panicked these days it seems.

[TCinVA]

Some are satisfied with killing Americans in any way they can. The big fish want to bring America to her knees. A coordinated attack on Black Friday would be devastating on America's economy. Instilling fear of the mall experience would hurt bad.

It's the coordinated attack thing that's the problem. Coordination is how you get caught ahead of time. One or two guys can fly under the radar. Four or five, and it is more likely that one of the seemingly omnipresent intelligence surveillance programs (which are hoovering up practically every bit of electronic communication) are going to nab you.

Franchise jihadism by lone actors who radicalize at a mosque or, more likely, self radicalize using the web who look for opportunities to strike is going to be the most available tactic. Up to now those types have primarily focused on the use of explosives (Portland Christmas tree lighting plot, NY Theater District plot, Boston, etc) but we're seeing radical actors branching out...like the two kitten-heads in London who ran somebody down with a car and then cut off his head in the street.

Hassan already proved you could generate quite a body count on a military base. The Navy Yard showed you can generate quite a body count at a military installation. Newton...well...kindergartens aren't exactly a tough target. (I'm resisting the urge to wonder why we expect members of the military on base to be as helpless as kindergarteners when it comes to self defense.)

US forces have been clipping "big fish" for quite some time, either with drones or direct action missions. Planning and coordination efforts of the type that brought about 9/11 aren't the likely profile for a while.

Doing things like getting serious about deporting problematic Somali immigrants, hopefully before any more of them show up in a mall somewhere in the world slaughtering the innocent and torturing people to death might help out with that a bit...but only a bit. Lots of second generation who are US citizens and can't be thrown out.

We've made ourselves a very uncomfortable bed with some very stupid policies...and we're going to be stuck laying in it for a while.

[TCinVA]

Perhaps my out of character response is due to my patience being absent. I simply want to be able to exercise my rights under the Second Ammendment. But the ignorant bravado displayed by exhibiting those behaviors I referenced in my statement is damaging to everyone who owns a gun. It is also ignorant, simplistic, and selfish. So if I publicly "call out" those who embarrass not only themselves and this forum, but the rest of the gun owning community, I am not going to pull punches. I call it like I see it.

If it is "harsh", it's because there is only so much ignorant stupidity I can take before I turn off my filter that allows me to be polite.

I feel much the same, exhibiting very little patience for those who blab about the "reset button" as if a complete breakdown of social order would result in going back to wearing three-pointed hats and everyone on the street talking about Locke and Plato again. Societal collapse doesn't generally produce that sort of thing. It usually either produces chaos (think Somalia), bloody vendetta campaigns (French revolution), or organized atrocity. (Nazi Germany)

Those who think blood in the streets is the start of a solution are morons.

[BaiHu]

...
Those who think blood in the streets is the start of a solution are morons.

Unfortunately, both sides of the scale seem to unwittingly promote this behavior. Whether it's the far left appeasing, asking for understanding and making excuses for radical behavior on "their" side or the far right making excuses for radical behavior to justify a reset for "their" side. Meanwhile, the rest of us get drawn and quartered by the extreme "collective" that can't seem to collect enough brain cells to see beyond their next payoff, photo bomb or election results.

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[Odin Bravo One]

Meanwhile, the rest of us get drawn and quartered by the extreme "collective" that can't seem to collect enough brain cells to see beyond their next payoff, photo bomb or election results.

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Precisely why I am out of patience for such nonsense, and why my comments may get interpreted or assessed as "harsh".

[Palmguy]

I believe there's a purposely low key and very serious game of cat n' mouse being played within our borders. So serious and so immense that even our giant brained CinC couldn't ignore it, hence the failure to maintain the campaign promise of shutting down Gitmo. Once in office and confronted with reality even his seriously occluded collectivist mind couldn't deny the threat.

How easy would it be, despite the "No Guns Allowed" signs at say, the Mall of America, to stage a Mumbai event on Black Friday? Think of the headlines. Think of the economic impact on the US. Surely AQ sees this and would jump at the chance.

Why hasn't it happened? Intel. Damn good intel. (And maybe a little luck too.)

Still I think it's comin'.

My $0.02.

I had the exact same thought (same target, same date; Mall of America on Black Friday) in the aftermath of the Kenya incident.

[jlw]

Why fight America in America when you can fight America in Africa and the Middle East? In my mind, it isn't a coincidence that these high profile incidents popped up in Africa on the heels of the U.S. not charging into Syria.

[NEPAKevin]

Picture an Imam tasking his younger followers to scour the internet seeking weaknesses to exploit in order to attack the great Satan's capitalist hubs, otherwise known as shopping malls, and instead finding that these institutions are guarded by a force (http://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?56-Ask-Sheepdog247)of heavily armed and lethally skilled elite operators ever vigilant for the mundane, the extreme and everything in between, leaving little if any chance for success and the rewards of paradise. "It is NOT God's will."