IDPA Mall Cop Defends Westgate Mall in Nairobi Kenya

[Keys1970]

A security guard in the Westgate Mall in Nairobi Kenya is wearing an IDPA vest. Page down a little more than 50% (or search for the phrase "Cat and mouse").

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428875/Terror-Kenya-Survivors-reveal-gunman-executed-non-Muslims.html

[PPGMD]

And here I thought you were joking about it being an IDPA vest, sure enough there is the IDPA patch on it.

I do wonder about the guy wearing latex/nitrile gloves behind him.

Of course he is the only one with any trigger discipline in the photo.

[TGS]

I do wonder about the guy wearing latex/nitrile gloves behind him.

He probably put them on expecting to deal with blood.

Anyone know anything about the troops with SCAR carbines? Special unit of some type, I imagine.

[PPGMD]

He probably put them on expecting to deal with blood.

Shaddup. I am imagining him there to take care of business in non-legal ways.


Anyone know anything about the troops with SCAR carbines? Special unit of some type, I imagine.

SOCOM is quite active in Africa, that is probably one of the units that SOCOM has been working with.

[HCM]

Photo 16 - the dad has a SIG tucked into the front of his waist band. Just curious as kenya is not known as being Firearms friendly ..

[justintime]

I did not know they had Idpa over there

[YVK]

Anyone know anything about the troops with SCAR carbines? Special unit of some type, I imagine.

Considering irons only and charging handle on a right side, I'd guess they just had their AKs taken away.

[NEPAKevin]

I did not know they had Idpa over there

On the IDPA Forum International Board, about a year ago: IDPA in Kenya? (http://idpaforum.yuku.com/sreply/78049/IDPA-in-Kenya) It appears some unaffiliated matches have been run there.

[Chuck Haggard]

Considering irons only and charging handle on a right side, I'd guess they just had their AKs taken away.

Or he was with the guys with the EO Techs and like so many of said devices his went TU so he removed it.

[Chuck Haggard]

Interdasting,,,,,,

Stolen from another site, I have not confirmed the info;


Working ID's of some of the savages involved, from another forum:

1. Ahmed Mohamed Isse 22 , Saint Paul Minnesota
2. Abdifatah Osman Keenadiid. 24, Minneapolis
3. Gen Mustafe Noorudiin. 27, Kansas Cty. MO
4. Qasim Said Mussa 22, Garissa Kenya
5. Ahmed Nasir Shirdoon 24. London UK
6. Zaki Jama Caraale 20 , Hargeisa Somalia
7. Ismael Guled 23, Helsinki Finland
8. Sayid Nuh 25, Kismayu Somalia
9. Abdirizak Mouled 24, Ontario Canada

[Chuck Haggard]

A security guard in the Westgate Mall in Nairobi Kenya is wearing an IDPA vest. Page down a little more than 50% (or search for the phrase "Cat and mouse").

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428875/Terror-Kenya-Survivors-reveal-gunman-executed-non-Muslims.html

You know what jumps out at me more than almost anything else in those pics?

Vest dude is cool, calm, and in control, almost everyone else is somewhere between OMG! and OMFGZOTSHTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JAD]

Interdasting,,,,,,

Stolen from another site, I have not confirmed the info;
Didn't he used to work the counter at Oklahoma Joe's?

[HCM]

You know what jumps out at me more than almost anything else in those pics?

Vest dude is cool, calm, and in control, almost everyone else is somewhere between OMG! and OMFGZOTSHTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, most likely not his first rodeo ..... Israeli ?

Israel has significant interests in Kenya and it's my understanding the mall in question is Israeli owned. Neither Israeli security contractors nor Israeli advisors to local security forces would surprise me.

Kudos to the Kenyan cops running to the guns .....

[BLR]

Anyone heard from Sheepdog24/7 or Geko45?

[Kyle Reese]

Anyone heard from Sheepdog24/7 or Geko45?

Nope..... :cool:

[ToddG]

Anyone heard from Sheepdog24/7 or Geko45?

Coincidentally enough, I received this in the mail just today. Postmark is somewhere in Africa but I promised not to say exactly where...

1788

[BLR]

I'm hoping I don't cause an OPSEC OR PERSEC issue, but if they had actionable Intel....

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

[Chuck Haggard]

What were we just saying about the press?

Dumbasses IMHO;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430201/Kenyan-Mall-Massacre-Off-duty-SAS-soldier-handgun-saved-100-lives.html#ixzz2floZiojq


An off-duty member of the SAS emerged as a hero of the Nairobi siege yesterday, after he was credited with saving up to 100 lives.

The soldier was having coffee at the Westgate mall when it was attacked by Islamists on Saturday.

With a gun tucked into his waistband, he was pictured helping two women from the complex.

Our saviour: The soldier, whose gun is circled, helps two women to safety. His identity has been protected for security reasons

He is said to have returned to the building on a dozen occasions, despite intense gunfire.

A friend in Nairobi said: ‘What he did was so heroic. He was having coffee with friends when it happened.

‘He went back in 12 times and saved 100 people. Imagine going back in when you knew what was going on inside.’

Sources said the soldier was with the Special Air Service, or SAS. He cannot be named for security reasons.

The British Special Forces regularly train and operate out of Kenya, and have been involved in tracking UK citizens involved with hardline Islamists in Somalia and Yemen.

Former members work with both the UK and Kenyan governments and security firms across East Africa.


OK, lets ID the SAS guy, and highlight his picture for everybody on the planet.

[PPGMD]

OK, lets ID the SAS guy, and highlight his picture for everybody on the planet.

A picture they released uncensored in the article linked above.

Anyways I think the original caption is more likely. It seems more like a father comforting his wife and child than a random cool guy pulling them out of the mall.

[TumblinDown]

A picture they released uncensored in the article linked above.

Looks like an extra mag in his left front pocket and something clipped in the right front pocket.

[RoyGBiv]

Took exactly 7 seconds to find the unpixelated version (http://i0.wp.com/www.ldjackson.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Kenya_shooting_3.jpg)..

[HCM]

That's the pic I referenced earlier in the thread- that would explain the SIG

[PPGMD]

That's the pic I referenced earlier in the thread- that would explain the SIG

Well they are now saying he is a former Royal Marine.

[Kyle Reese]

Well they are now saying he is a former Royal Marine.

If that's the case he may be employed by a British or South African PSC.

[Chuck Haggard]

Way to burn homie's PERSEC. Jerkoffs

[NEPAKevin]

It's probably wrong that I read about these thing and visualize IDPA scenarios and future episodes of Strike Back.

[EMC]

How can we get the hairy armed IDPA vest guy on sparks radio show? Seems like it would make for a good program.

[HCM]

How can we get the hairy armed IDPA vest guy on sparks radio show? Seems like it would make for a good program.

I second this nomination !

[PPGMD]

How can we get the hairy armed IDPA vest guy on sparks radio show? Seems like it would make for a good program.

"I issued a terrorist three terrorist procedurals for lack of cover while shooting in the form of 124 gr Gold Dots."

[Shellback]

Some interesting pictures here (http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/09/graphic-the-westgate-shopping-center-shootings-in-kenya/), may be NSFW. Picture #12 shows another white dude tending to a gunshot victim with a pistol in the belt sans holster.

[jlw]

Some interesting pictures here (http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/09/graphic-the-westgate-shopping-center-shootings-in-kenya/), may be NSFW. Picture #12 shows another white dude tending to a gunshot victim with a pistol in the belt sans holster.

The guy in #9 is sending in his attack elephant.

[BaiHu]

Picture #33 really reminded me of a fur-coated, wolverine-taloned mother I helped teach at a NRA basic pistol class. Her grip was exactly like this guy in #33 and let's just say I rectified the issue by saying she'd have to get a lot more than just her nails done if she shot the gun with that grip.

[HCM]

The guy in #9 is sending in his attack elephant.

It worked for Hannibal - from other photos it appears he is rocking a CZ - possibly P- 01 ...

[NickA]

Found through a post over on TPI:
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/brainstorming-response-options-in-the-nairobi-mall-incident

Greg Ellifritz on the armed Brit ex-soldier who helped evacuate the mall, what options we have and what to consider in a similar situation.
He also links to this article:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mystery-irish-hero-saved-hundreds-of-terrified-shoppers-trapped-in-nairobi-29608137.html
If it's accurate there's a couple of interesting points:
The guy went in with a group, and apparently they did engage the BG's at one point.
Article claims they "were given guns by two Asian men", which is... interesting. Wonder if that's cover for guns they shouldn't have had or what.

[BaiHu]

Thanks for the post Nick, it was great reading-especially all of the questions!

[EMC]

"The attackers gunned down several children, including a girl who had attended ninth-grade at the International School of Kenya, commonly referred to as I.S.K. An American official said Thursday that during the three-day effort to dislodge the last assailants in the mall, an American security adviser delivered a crate of tear gas to Kenyan soldiers, pulled out a canister and said, “Use this one first, courtesy of the 9th grade of I.S.K.”

According to the American official, the Kenyan soldiers lobbed that specific canister into the mall, smoked out one of the assailants and shot him dead."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/27/world/africa/2-more-militant-attacks-unsettle-kenya.html?google_editors_picks=true

Good!

[ToddG]

"According to the American official, the Kenyan soldiers lobbed that specific canister into the mall, smoked out one of the assailants and shot him dead."

http://michaelhyatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/iStock_000006618875Small.jpg

[pdh]

Some interesting pictures here (http://totallycoolpix.com/2013/09/graphic-the-westgate-shopping-center-shootings-in-kenya/), may be NSFW. Picture #12 shows another white dude tending to a gunshot victim with a pistol in the belt sans holster.

Pictures 27 and 32 really hit home

[Tamara]

Pictures 27 and 32 really hit home

I don't know I'd have been much in an arresting kind of mood if I'd just run past that.

[NEPAKevin]

Kenya Mall Attack Torture Claims (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2434278/Kenya-mall-attack-torture-claims-emerge-soldiers-Eyes-gouged-bodies-hooks-fingers-removed.html) Evil, pure and simple.

[Kyle Reese]

Kenya Mall Attack Torture Claims (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2434278/Kenya-mall-attack-torture-claims-emerge-soldiers-Eyes-gouged-bodies-hooks-fingers-removed.html) Evil, pure and simple.

Whatever happened to the old liberal saying "just give them what they want and they won't hurt you"?

[BaiHu]

Whatever happened to the old liberal saying "just give them what they want and they won't hurt you"?

Yes, give them your faith in Allah and become like them. :banghead:

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[TR675]

NY Times is reporting today that the first responders were a mix of armed neighborhood watch members, off-duty PD and local gun club members. They apparently entered the mall, engaged the bad guys and rescued innocents while the Kenyan official response gathered and tried to unf*** themselves.

[Chuck Haggard]

I don't know I'd have been much in an arresting kind of mood if I'd just run past that.

In a situation like this when you catch up to the bad guys a non traditional to the US option would have been the best bet.


At the DARC LE counter terrorist course Uncle Rich teaches folks to "dead check" terrorists for very good reasons, and IMHO this sort of thing would be completely justified under Graham and Garner doctrine in the middle of a multi terrorist attack type event such as this, Beslan, Mumbai, etc.

[Suvorov]

NY Times is reporting today that the first responders were a mix of armed neighborhood watch members, off-duty PD and local gun club members. They apparently entered the mall, engaged the bad guys and rescued innocents while the Kenyan official response gathered and tried to unf*** themselves.

That would explain the number of Sigs stuck in waist bands.

[TR675]

Here is a link to the NYT article (may be behind a paywall): Headline: During Siege at Kenyan Mall Government Forces Seemed Slow to Respond (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/world/africa/during-siege-at-kenyan-mall-government-forces-seemed-slow-to-respond.html?ref=world&_r=0).

Choice excerpts:


When the first shots of automatic gunfire burst out, Raju, a member of a local gun club, was waiting in line in a bank at the Westgate shopping mall. He crouched down, pulled out his phone and feverishly pecked out a text message: “I am inside and I can confirm this is not a robbery.”

Within minutes, his fellow gun club members, neighborhood watch volunteers, off-duty police officers and other armed Samaritans rushed to the mall. They found no command center, no SWAT team — in short, no coordinated government response as heavily armed Islamist militants shot civilians at will.


There was no shortage of valor or self-sacrifice that day at the mall. The gun club members and off-duty officers helped rescue hundreds of terrified shoppers. One police officer was shot in the stomach and dragged to safety by a photographer.


Abdul Haji, a local businessman, drove “like crazy, even on the wrong side of the road,” to get to the Westgate mall, where his brother had texted him to say he was hiding in a bathroom. The son of a former Kenyan defense minister, Mr. Haji had a licensed Ceska handgun and a full clip of ammunition.

The first people Mr. Haji saw when he arrived were volunteer members of a neighborhood watch patrol, equipped with walkie-talkies, bulletproof vests and handguns. Some had received the text message from Raju, the member who was afraid for his safety to have his full name published. Plainclothes police officers, some off duty, also responded. They all plunged in behind Abbas Gullet, the head of the Kenya Red Cross, who was desperate to get the wounded out.


With a growing posse of armed responders flocking to the mall, several of the assailants dashed into the large Nakumatt supermarket, exchanging fire with some of the volunteers and police officers, wounding one.

The lack of immediate official response does not surprise me: witness our own problems at Columbine; add in Kenya's various issues with its government and security forces and that ought to be the expected result. BUT, my damn hat is off to those who took it upon themselves to run towards the gunfire to save innocent lives.

More than ever we need to study this incident and pay attention to its lessons.

[BaiHu]

Thanks for posting that. It'll be passed along to the antis in my life.

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[Shellback]

Good article. One day the first responder may just be you.

[Suvorov]

Misfire

[John Hearne]

Here is a link to the NYT article (may be behind a paywall): Headline: During Siege at Kenyan Mall Government Forces Seemed Slow to Respond (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/world/africa/during-siege-at-kenyan-mall-government-forces-seemed-slow-to-respond.html?ref=world&_r=0).
The lack of immediate official response does not surprise me: witness our own problems at Columbine; add in Kenya's various issues with its government and security forces and that ought to be the expected result. BUT, my damn hat is off to those who took it upon themselves to run towards the gunfire to save innocent lives.

More than ever we need to study this incident and pay attention to its lessons.

That is pretty amazing. While I don't agree with a lot of what he says, Dave Grossman outlines a realistic and effective response to major terrorist level active shooter events and this is almost exactly what he describes.

[Shellback]

Go Navy! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/world/africa/mall-attack-also-involved-kenyans-official-says.html?_r=0)

NAIROBI, Kenya — A Navy SEAL team targeted a senior leader of the Shabab militant group in a raid on his seaside villa in the Somali town of Baraawe on Saturday, American officials said, in response to a deadly attack on a Nairobi shopping mall for which the group had claimed responsibility...

[BaiHu]

Oops sorry. I just posted this on a new thread.

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[LHS]

Go Navy! (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/world/africa/mall-attack-also-involved-kenyans-official-says.html?_r=0)

From the linked article:


Since the overthrow of Colonel Qaddafi, Tripoli has slid steadily into lawlessness, with no strong central government or police presence. It has become a safe haven for militants seeking to avoid detection elsewhere, and United States government officials, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss confidential information, have acknowledged in recent months that Abu Anas and other wanted terrorists had been seen moving freely around the capital.

Kind of makes me wonder if there isn't method to some of this madness... Create a place where the bad guys congregate for lack of governmental pressure, monitor them remotely, and then nail them when they get complacent.

[TR675]

That's giving the current administration - or really any administration - way too much credit for thinking these things through. I don't think "strategy" is something they give a lot of thought to.

[Tamara]

Oh, sure, everybody knows that you just topple the dictatorial regime and a veritable Golden Age of Athens springs up from the ashes practically spontaneously. I mean, it worked that way from Baghdad to Cairo to Tehran, so why shouldn't it happen in Tripoli?

I can only imagine the art schools and debate salons that will sprout in the wake of Assad's demise...

[TR675]

Duh. Ex. A: Deutschland c. 1918-34.

[BaiHu]

Update: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2464405/Kenya-mall-CCTV-shows-terrorist-executing-victims.html

[EMC]

Update: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2464405/Kenya-mall-CCTV-shows-terrorist-executing-victims.html

In one of the photos from the supermarket video, you can see one of the terrorists with a bandaged leg wound.

[Shellback]

Dateline NBC is having a 2 hour special on the incident tonight. PST 7 - 9pm.

[NEPAKevin]

Terror at the Mall (http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/terror-at-the-mall#/), an HBO documentary.
The documentary was a combination of interviews with survivors and video from surveillance CCTV of these people and the terrorists. Not for the squeamish. Watching this, the video put context to the still pictures.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9n2pB8Nz9c

[BaiHu]

Has anyone watched this? I'm watching it now. I had to DVR it. Perhaps we need a new thread to discuss this now that this documentary is out?

[TR675]

I only caught the last 15 mins. DVR'ing it. What little I saw was chilling, both the evil of the terrorists and the incompetence of the security forces.

[BaiHu]

Bingo! A lot to discuss.

[NEPAKevin]

I have watched it three times and saw something new each time. i agree that it is a warning as to the likely future of terrorism targeting soft targets but at the same time inspirational in the way it relates the heroics displayed by regular people under some of the most difficult of circumstances. I just hope it does not get the plain clothes corporal who spoke so freely of his revolution regarding the atrocities committed in the name of Islam killed.

FWIW, I thought about starting a new thread but figured the people interested in this topic would already be following this thread and those who were not might benefit from the background information. I happened on the show by accident as the box was recording something that was on HBO prior to his and it just happened to be on the same channel and as it played, I recognized the scenes depicted in the photos from the article.

[Malamute]

I don't have TV, is there a way to watch it online? Does it cost to watch online?

I recently saw a piece by a Kenyan TV station, they raised some interesting questions, some of which were that it appears the Terrs may have gotten away, there wasnt anything happening in the store where they were supposed to be when all the noise was going on the last day, there were soldiers walking around in the store, and carrying out bags of stuff. The day or two before, the Terrs had been hanging around the store in the back area, then moved the camera, and nothing further was seen of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zvon2eualE

[RoyGBiv]

If you have HBO, it's available On Demand, currently.
Bookmarked it, but have not watched it yet.

Thanks for the heads up Kevin.

[RoyGBiv]

Maybe this is better in "Mindset"?

NRA Life of Duty vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fkAclq8GFM

Related article...
Our Westgate Is Coming. Where Will You Stand? (http://bearingarms.com/westgate-coming-will-stand/?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl)

[TCinVA]

http://youtu.be/giY-nThMRH8

The term "cluster fuck" doesn't begin to describe this.

[Malamute]

The term "cluster fuck" doesn't begin to describe this.


Agreed.

Thanks for posting the video link.

The one I posted was from a Nairobi TV station, they seem to have come to a little different conclusion on some things. Was there any indepandant confirmation of the bodies of the Terrs being recovered? Or are we taking the Kenyan military's word for it?

[PPGMD]

Wow. Those plain clothes cops had the right idea, they just didn't have the support they needed to finish what they started..

[Bigguy]

Wow. Those plain clothes cops had the right idea, they just didn't have the support they needed to finish what they started..

And two licensed civilians if I remember correctly.

[BigT]

Upscale mall with international brands, eateries & 24/7 security, plus a cinema & kids' play area. A security guard in the Westgate Mall in Nairobi Kenya is wearing an IDPA vest.


Um you what now?

[Rex G]

Um you what now?

I saw this one, and checked his profile. LL seems to be watching this one.

Spammer, probably, was my immediate guess. Just joined, and made a first post, that made little sense, in the discussion flow. His profile has a foreign website link.