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Suvorov
09-21-2013, 07:55 PM
I have long been thinking about the idea of having a carbine for the home defense role. While my wife has been shown how to use a pistol and has to (by a pact we made) attend annual retraining, she is at best - not likely to shoot herself with it. She is terrified of the 12GA that supplements the home defense plan, but can shoot a .22 rifle and an AR15 with amazing skill! Given the politics surrounding AR15s in Kalifornia, they are not the best option IMHO for a HD gun. I also have issues with the muzzle blast of a 223 indoors which has for now ruled out a Mini14. I've been looking for a Ruger PC9 carbine, but those things are silly impossible to find, expensive for what they are, and really are not that inspiring to me in hand. So that leaves me with the M1 Carbine. They are super light and handy, low recoiling, sturdy, and with soft point or hollow point ammo - have good terminal ballistics. They are however a little dated.

So with that, what is the general concensios on putting a "war baby" into the role of HD gun?

Should I go with a military gun, or are some of the after market guns like the Thompson/Kahr M1s good (I would consider tacticooling up a WWII M1 to be a sin)?

What kind of sighting options are available?

Anyone else use one for this role?

TGS
09-21-2013, 08:10 PM
I have long been thinking about the idea of having a carbine for the home defense role. While my wife has been shown how to use a pistol and has to (by a pact we made) attend annual retraining, she is at best - not likely to shoot herself with it. She is terrified of the 12GA that supplements the home defense plan, but can shoot a .22 rifle and an AR15 with amazing skill! Given the politics surrounding AR15s in Kalifornia, they are not the best option IMHO for a HD gun. I also have issues with the muzzle blast of a 223 indoors which has for now ruled out a Mini14. I've been looking for a Ruger PC9 carbine, but those things are silly impossible to find, expensive for what they are, and really are not that inspiring to me in hand. So that leaves me with the M1 Carbine. They are super light and handy, low recoiling, sturdy, and with soft point or hollow point ammo - have good terminal ballistics. They are however a little dated.

So with that, what is the general concensios on putting a "war baby" into the role of HD gun?

Should I go with a military gun, or are some of the after market guns like the Thompson/Kahr M1s good (I would consider tacticooling up a WWII M1 to be a sin)?

What kind of sighting options are available?

Anyone else use one for this role?

Did you check out DocGKR's thread on M1 Carbines (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4339-M1-Carbines)? :D

FWIW, just some other things to think about real quick.....Mossberg 505 .410 youth shotgun. 000 buck in .410 is okay terminal-wise. Also, instead of the Ruger PC9, there's also the Beretta Cx4 which I've shot...not a bad gun. I'd still rather have an M1 with JSP ammo compared to either, however.

DocGKR
09-21-2013, 08:20 PM
M1 carbines work fine, especially with an Ultimak rail, RDS, and light added:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/M1H1_zps4d16e8ed.jpg

All you folks in NY should carefully read your state's odioius and misnamed "SAFE" act--especially the section which exempts weapons and magazines that are over 50 years old...

Maple Syrup Actual
09-21-2013, 08:24 PM
My only concern would be availability of decent ammo but I imagine you have fairly different options than we would in Canada. Other than that, it's a light, handy, military-grade PCC and Ultimak makes a rail for it. What's not to like? (In Canada, the fact that I'd probably never find anything but FMJ).

TGS
09-21-2013, 08:33 PM
M1 carbines work fine, especially with an Ultimak rail, RDS, and light added:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/M1H1_zps4d16e8ed.jpg

All you folks in NY should carefully read your state's odioius and misnamed "SAFE" act--especially the section which exempts weapons and magazines that are over 50 years old...

An M1 Carbine with an Aimpoint Micro.

It's like they were made for each other.

Suvorov
09-21-2013, 08:44 PM
Did you check out DocGKR's thread on M1 Carbines (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4339-M1-Carbines)? :D

FWIW, just some other things to think about real quick.....Mossberg 505 .410 youth shotgun. 000 buck in .410 is okay terminal-wise. Also, instead of the Ruger PC9, there's also the Beretta Cx4 which I've shot...not a bad gun. I'd still rather have an M1 with JSP ammo compared to either, however.


Well, no I didn't :o Pretty much all my answers here. Actually I seem to recall reading it years ago at M4.net which probably planted the original idea seed.

The Beretta Cx4 would actually be the ideal answer since I use an M9 as the HD pistol. That said, I have looked into it and making the Cx4 Kalifornia compliant is more trouble that it is worth (it is too short, has a detachable magazine with a pistol grip, and a few other issues).

So what about the Auto Ordnance/Kahr carbines - anyone own one? :confused:

DocGKR
09-21-2013, 08:57 PM
Stick to USGI...

ffhounddog
09-21-2013, 09:04 PM
I am all for a M1 carbine myself. I did get a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm that takes Beretta Mags. It is light and handy and I can load it with some decent 9mm rounds. It is a heavy towards the rear of the stock. My wife is okay with the M4 but she really liked the CX4 storm because she can maneuver it better inside the house. We have Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP in it right now.

JDM
09-21-2013, 09:16 PM
Probably a dumb question, but where would someone who has almost exclusively bought brand new modern firearms go to buy a USGI M1 carbine?

Ron P's ( an Albuquerque LGS) used to have three or four on the shelf regularly. I don't know if that is still the case.

I'd be curious to know if there was a reasonably constant supply of M1Cs available somewhere besides local shops.

TGS
09-21-2013, 09:31 PM
The Beretta Cx4 would actually be the ideal answer since I use an M9 as the HD pistol. That said, I have looked into it and making the Cx4 Kalifornia compliant is more trouble that it is worth (it is too short, has a detachable magazine with a pistol grip, and a few other issues).

The same issues don't apply to the M1 Carbine because it doesn't have a pistol grip? I'm not well versed in California's laws...

DocGKR
09-21-2013, 09:42 PM
Currently perfectly legal in CA.

Suvorov
09-21-2013, 09:50 PM
The same issues don't apply to the M1 Carbine because it doesn't have a pistol grip? I'm not well versed in California's laws...

Yes. The Cx4 has what would be considered a pistol grip or thumbhole grip and a detachable magazine which would be a no no in Kalifornia. So I could either add a magazine lock (aka bullet button) which would make the gun unsuitable for HD and restrict me to 10 round mags or find a way to close out the thumbhole stock which would create ergonomics issues. Also, the Cx4's length is below the minimum 30 inches which would mean I would have to add some extra spacers to the butt stock beyond that or have the barrel threaded and a compensator added to get it over 30 inches.

As DocGKR stated the M1 is perfectly legal as is. It would become illegal if I were to add a pistol grip or folding stock to it (and did not fix the magazine via bullet button) or added a flash suppressor (but not a compensator) to it.

Makes sense right? :rolleyes:

Doug
09-22-2013, 03:00 AM
If you don't have pre 2000 mags, make certain that 10 rounders run. Never heard of USGI 10s, but I could be wrong. Not sure who makes a quality m1 10 rounder.

elsquid
09-22-2013, 03:55 AM
Currently perfectly legal in CA.

Unless Gov Brown vetoes SB374, as of next year the M1 Carbine becomes an EvilBannedAssaultRifle in CA:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=708722

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB374

-- Michael

Suvorov
09-22-2013, 11:32 AM
Unless Gov Brown vetoes SB374, as of next year the M1 Carbine becomes an EvilBannedAssaultRifle in CA:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=708722

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB374

-- Michael

Well, in that case it becomes a registered evil banned assault rifle and my ARs become that much more practical as HD guns.

Odin Bravo One
09-22-2013, 12:02 PM
(I would consider tacticooling up a WWII M1 to be a sin)?


Anyone else use one for this role?

Hardly a sin........most are not collectible enough to be concerned with offending the firearms sensibilities of the purists or others who would be so ridiculous as to be offended by your decision. It is, after all, your decision........not anyone else's.

I set up an M1 Carbine not specifically for HD, but so it could fill the role if it were called upon to do so. Ultimak rail + an R-1 micro. Shoots good enough for government work, and while it may or may not the deathray manstopper people believe their chosen HD long arm to be, it will do the job. I suppose at some point I may look for a surplus stock, and will add a few sections of rail for a VFG of some sort, and will probably add a light eventually.

It shoots 4-5" groups at 50 yards all day long, and that is plenty of accuracy for just about every home defense scenario I can think of, at least in the house we own now.

Suvorov
09-22-2013, 12:32 PM
So what should the going price be for a functional GI M1 carbine be?

The market today is out of whack still and prices on Gun Broker seem actually higher that what the LGS has so it is hard to get a good read there.

Doc mentioned the M2 safety. Other things to look for or avoid? :confused:

ffhounddog
09-22-2013, 01:32 PM
Suvorov,

Sorry I forgot you were in CA now and not WY. I agree the M1 Carbine would be ideal for your use.

Thank you for telling me more about the gun laws in CA I thought thumb hole stocks were okay since that was not a pistol grip.

ffh

Suvorov
09-22-2013, 01:57 PM
Suvorov,

Sorry I forgot you were in CA now and not WY. I agree the M1 Carbine would be ideal for your use.

Thank you for telling me more about the gun laws in CA I thought thumb hole stocks were okay since that was not a pistol grip.

ffh

Yeah, stuck in Kalifornia for now, maybe until retirement and I can get my summer home in the Snowy Range.

That said, the M1 sounds like would fit my needs pretty well regardless of location. A Cx4 would be nice though.

DocGKR
09-22-2013, 02:42 PM
I'd take a M1 carbine over a Cx4 any day...

Suvorov
09-22-2013, 03:08 PM
I'd take a M1 carbine over a Cx4 any day...

Why is that Sir? Better terminal ballistics? Better track record? Accuracy? Handiness? :confused:


P.S. I'll be checking out Krauswerks on Tuesday to see what they have, if you have a good line on a carbine in the Bay Area, let me know ;)

DocGKR
09-22-2013, 03:36 PM
All yes.

Combat proven weapon through 3 major wars and multiple smaller ones with much better terminal ballistics (especially with modern projectiles) vs. the Cx4....I know which one I choose.

Tamara
09-22-2013, 05:57 PM
Stick to USGI...

+1

This mirrors my experiences.

ffhounddog
09-22-2013, 08:18 PM
I agree with Doc too. I have a CX4 Storm and it works for what it is but if I could find a M1 Carbine even a newish one from somewhere I would get it.

CX4 works but the part of the reason I got it was because I already have 9mm and 5.56. I do not have any M1 Carbine ammo. Finding ammo was a consideration and I already shoot a M9 and use it in the house.

The Hornady M1 Carbine ammo looks nice but for Ammo again you should listen to Doc Roberts.