Gripping full sized Beretta, ergos question

[YVK]

Several recent range sessions revealed a tendency to hit right, confirmed by observations in dry fire that naturally drawing and pointing a gun often times has front sight in right corner of rear's notch, or even behind right rear post.
My speculative conclusion is that relatively blocky grip combined with long trigger reach makes me place my strong hand in such a way that muzzle is turned to the right a bit. Has anybody observed anything similar?

[GJM]

Several recent range sessions revealed a tendency to hit right,

Since we were just discussing this on the phone, I think you mean "a tendency to hit right with your initial DA press."

[YVK]

Since I am at about 70%/30% DA/SA practice ratio, and I start with DA, and I've been using IDPA target taped negatively, I don't necessarily know that I am not doing this in SA. All I can say that at the end the right upper quadrant is shot out and most misses are high right.
I also want to point out that the target's size and distance to are such that I don't look for a perfect sight pic. I think that high hits are due to me looking over the rear sight which may explain why I don't always pick misalignment visually.

That said, I am simply interested if anybody had to rework their Beretta hold from what felt naturally comfortable.

[farscott]

The Beretta 92F was my first semi-auto handgun back in 1989, and I did not understand that a gun had to fit when I bought that gun. Long story short, I gripped it much like you described. To get my short finger on that (very far away for me) trigger, the gun had to be rotated towards my trigger finger. What that did for accuracy and recovery time (recoil twisted wrist) was not good. I missed to the right, both high and low (anticipating the wrist twist).

It was not apparent to me what the issue was until I tried other guns and noticed how the bore lined up with my forearm -- or did not.

[JAD]

I've worked this issue with a few firearms. If you crawl the grip you will pull to the right; if you get properly aligned you will push shots to the left. I have a /lot/ of training (not to say I'm good, just to say I've asked) and I do not believe this is a software-solvable issue.

Berettas have good resale value.

[Danjojo]

Is your thumb metacarpal part of your grip?

[ToddG]

Since I am at about 70%/30% DA/SA practice ratio, and I start with DA, and I've been using IDPA target taped negatively, I don't necessarily know that I am not doing this in SA.
<...>
I also want to point out that the target's size and distance to are such that I don't look for a perfect sight pic.

You're going to have to change those things (i.e., practice deliberately) to figure out what is going wrong and figure out if it's an easy solve or a hard one. There are all sorts of things that could be causing the problem you're seeing but simply listing them isn't going to do you any good. Pick a target that will force you to slow down and be conscious about your sights and trigger at 7yd (like a 3x5 card or 2" dot). Put up a pair of them. Draw and fire your first round (DA) to one target, and your second shot (SA) to the second target. Repeat this for a magazine or two. You'll have a dozen or so DA shots on one and the same number of SA shots on the other.

FWIW, I have smallish hands and very short fingers but shot Berettas for about five years with no problem. I did use a Beretta factory short trigger when possible (all of my personal guns) but that was about it. I also press the trigger with nearly the tip of my finger in both DA and SA mode, which helps with both precision and reach.

[YVK]

Farscott, thanks for info





Berettas have good resale value.

Nope, my guns don't. I do despicable things to them. :)




Is your thumb metacarpal part of your grip?

With this gun, it depends how much of my palm is behind the gun.



I also press the trigger with nearly the tip of my finger in both DA and SA mode, which helps with both precision and reach.

Part of a problem for me. So far I've not been able to clear the Wall drill WHO/SHO unless I put that finger quite deep. Good to know that finger tip press can work with DA.

I did that, a bunch of DA shots on one card and a bunch of SA on another as a first thing
on the range with this gun. Perhaps I should do it again, and see what corrections are needed. A short dry fire session last evening was promising.
BTW, short reach trigger and Vertec grips here.


Don't know how you all feel about it, but to me this process of figuring different guns - different triggers, ergos, quirks, etc, is often times more interesting than shooting results.
No wonder my shooting progress is so slow:D

[farscott]

Now, that is very interesting as I tend to use the pad of my finger, not the tip. I sense an experiment in my future.

[snip]

FWIW, I have smallish hands and very short fingers but shot Berettas for about five years with no problem. I did use a Beretta factory short trigger when possible (all of my personal guns) but that was about it. I also press the trigger with nearly the tip of my finger in both DA and SA mode, which helps with both precision and reach.

[Kevin B.]

My right hand is pretty messed up and I can run a Beretta fairly well. My trigger finger placement does force my hand slightly out of alignment with the bore and I have slightly more thumb behind the gun. I have not found it to have a significant impact on performance.

[JonInWA]

Another alternative would be to attempt to locate a set of Trausch TJ92 grips; they to the best of my knowledge are the thinnest, and are very well designed, and in my case have literally transformed the handling characteristics for the better, coming close to making it feel and handle like a single-stack. Unfortunately, Jacques Trausch has passed away, and while the website (www.trausch.com) is still up, I'm not sure what their status and production is at.

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2116.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2116.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2107.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2107.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2117.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2117.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2118.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2118.jpg.html)

Best, Jon

[GardoneVT]

Several recent range sessions revealed a tendency to hit right, confirmed by observations in dry fire that naturally drawing and pointing a gun often times has front sight in right corner of rear's notch, or even behind right rear post.
My speculative conclusion is that relatively blocky grip combined with long trigger reach makes me place my strong hand in such a way that muzzle is turned to the right a bit. Has anybody observed anything similar?

Yes,although with a 3rd Gen Smith .45 in my case.

With DA firearms,ergonomics is crucial. A striker fired or single action trigger can be reached and fired even if the grip isn't ideal,small or large.On a DA/SA weapon,your grip and trigger press need to be on point-or the shows over in terms of DA shooting.I can shoot a 92FS and a Sig P226 in either mode competently . 3rd Gen Smiths are a no-go for me :my fingers are too long to avoid dragging the gun during the trigger stroke shooting with the pad.If I use the crease instead I'm GTG,but then I'll shoot poorly with the other guns .

We all have different hand ,palm,and finger sizes.That makes comparing gun handling a chancy game,since how I'll hold a gun will inevitably differ from yours in minute ways.Thus, no firearm can work for everyone with equal results.Sometimes that means walking away from good equipment.