Tallahassee DUI Arrest of Woman Goes Bad....

[BaiHu]

A video has surfaced showing Florida police officers slamming a 44-year-old woman onto the hood of a police car and then onto the ground with such force that she suffered a broken orbital bone in her face, a bloody nose and multiple other injuries.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2417076/Christina-West-DUI-arrest-video-shows-Tallahassee-Florida-police-officers-break-cheekbone.html#ixzz2ebFUnm8b
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[Coyotesfan97]

She's spinning on the Officers while they're either adjusting or taking off the handcuffs. When she's controlled on the hood you can see she's lifting her feet and kicking at the Officers. She gets taken to the ground to stop the kicking and they handcuff her again. They aren't trying to break her cheek or nose. People that fight/assault cops get hurt sometimes. I've seen people in cuffs like that grab testicles and kick Officers in the crotch.

Now they might have trouble for not calling medics to check her.



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[BaiHu]

She's spinning on the Officers while they're either adjusting or taking off the handcuffs. When she's controlled on the hood you can see she's lifting her feet and kicking at the Officers. She gets taken to the ground to stop the kicking and they handcuff her again. They aren't trying to break her cheek or nose. People that fight/assault cops get hurt sometimes. I've seen people in cuffs like that grab testicles and kick Officers in the crotch.

Now they might have trouble for not calling medics to check her.

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I wasn't a big fan on commenting on this, b/c I could see that there might have been problems with her, ahem, behavior, but it never looks good when a tiny blonde looks like she went a round with Mike Tyson on the way to a holding cell/hospital after being arrested.

[DocGKR]

So....don't drive drunk then resist arrest. Check. Got it.

[BaiHu]

I'm just looking @ how the MSM will handle this is all DocGKR.

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[Shellback]

45 minute video of the entire incident. At about 29:00 they're putting her into the squad car for the first time. The officers are nothing but friendly, cordial and professional. At about 34:00 dude says she slipped the cuffs while coaching a rookie on how to ask her for a breathalyzer, after they have her cuffed and in the back of the car.

As she's trying to explain something about husband, kids, car, etc. the cop doesn't want to hear it and insists multiple times for her to get out of the car and responds to her sarcastically "I don't care...that's nice." and it proceeds to go down hill from there. Attempt to tighten the cuffs, twisting her arm, they're hurting her and she doesn't want to be hurt saying "You're breaking my fucking arm!" and then the struggle goes further and cop says "Don't you fucking touch me!" then the slamming on the ground. Cop tells her "You're fine" regarding her face rather than calling medics and then goes on to threaten her saying "You do that again you're gonna regret it." From my perspective dude slammed her out of anger and the whole thing could've been resolved with a lot less force, especially considering the size disparity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt2DjhZ8rnE&feature=share&list=UUJ76qqB6603PZxIeuks36Ig

[secondstoryguy]

An intoxicated/high flailing 120-130lb woman can be a handful, even for a 195lb guy like myself. As an officer you just have to realize that you can literally turn a 120lb woman in to a projectile and dial it back a little bit.

[Dr. No]

As someone who's had to fight small females, they are not to be underestimated. An armbar or joint lock that works on a man is not as effective on women as they tend to be more flexible. We as men also tend to go into the uses of force 'lighter' than we probably should because we have always been taught not to hurt women. This causes problems when they then take the opportunity to fight.

What remains unclear to me in this particular instance - How did she incur her injuries? I don't see any sort of real force used that could break her orbital socket. Yes, she was bounced but that rarely results in more than some scrapes and bruises. It is highly likely that she sustained those massive injuries during her drunken car crash.

Unfortunately people don't care about the pesky "facts" will just look at her poor photo and cry that the police bounced her. How about this:

1. Don't drive drunk.
2. Don't drive drunk with f'ing KIDS IN THE DAMN CAR. (God that drives me insane)
3. Don't drive drunk and then wreck into SOMEONES HOUSE
4. Don't drive drunk then try to escape from custody.
5. Don't drive drunk then fight the police.

There are a whole litany of choices she made that led to her injuries. Absolutely f'ing NONE of them were made by the police officers involved.

Also: Drunks bounce HARD. It's been a common phenomenon in every brawl I've been in.

[fixer]

One of the reasons I'm not in law enforcement is I'd give every drunk driver similar or worse treatment.

I agree with the above. I'd rather have some idiot get their face smashed then have her take out a family or two on her way home from the club.

[Sparks2112]

Ever since having a 115lb woman try her best to put my eyes out with a cocktail glass at the bar I worked at, I don't get as worked up by things like this as I probably should.

[BLR]

From my perspective dude slammed her out of anger and the whole thing could've been resolved with a lot less force, especially considering the size disparity.


+1.

Fact of the matter, she created the situation. She needs to pay the price for it.

However, behavior of the cops is unacceptable. Being a dumb*** does not license those around someone, especially law enforcement officers to behave similarly. Not calling the medics is and language is what turned the incident for me. Take out those two things, I'd say she bought what she got.

[41magfan]

The closest I ever came to being stabbed was by a skinny little B/F that wouldn't weigh 100 pounds soaking wet. And along those lines, it's been my experience that a disproportionate number of "little guys" are the ones always wanting to prove something and it always looks bad when those guys/girls are getting thumped.

Most of the people that make silly comments about physical force applications by the Police usually operate from a paradigm that reflects they're own experiences in dealing with physical conflict; you know, that fight that happened on the playground in the 6th Grade.

I should add a disclaimer: I'm not defending this particular action or any other, I'm just making a generalization.

[BLR]

Most of the people that make silly comments about physical force applications by the Police usually operate from a paradigm that reflects they're own experiences in dealing with physical conflict; you know, that fight that happened on the playground in the 6th Grade.

Very true.

However, the trouble in this comes from the actions after the bumping. Crunch some drunk dude/chick's nose because they were resisting? Fine by me. Shouldn't have been drunk, shouldn't have resisted. Period. Full stop.
Don't call the medics after, though? That's on the cop. And he should pay just like the drunk, IMO. That opens up all sorts of liabilities for the PD.

[rob_s]

Most of the people that make silly comments about physical force applications by the Police usually operate from a paradigm that reflects they're own experiences in dealing with physical conflict; you know, that fight that happened on the playground in the 6th Grade.
.

And unfortunately many cops that comment only operate from a paradigm that reflects their own experiences with getting pissed off the people are not complying with them and in turn responding from a place of emotion.

[BaiHu]

And unfortunately many cops that comment only operate from a paradigm that reflects their own experiences with getting pissed off the people are not complying with them and in turn responding from a place of emotion.

If that ain't the majority of folks :rolleyes:

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[dbateman]

Not sure what to make of that think the cops could of handled it a bit better but at the end of the day she rolled the dice.

[TGS]

For the cops on the board:

What are your protocols for EMS? What crosses the line at which point EMS must be called?

For everyone else:

Why do you see it so cut and dry that they should have called EMS, and not doing so is a major f-up?

[Lon]

For the cops on the board:

What are your protocols for EMS? What crosses the line at which point EMS must be called?

For everyone else:

Why do you see it so cut and dry that they should have called EMS, and not doing so is a major f-up?

By policy, any injuries received prior to, during or after a person is taken into custody need to be treated. There is no excuse for not calling a squad to check them at the very least. Why assume that liability when you don't have to?

The only time it is acceptable to withhold medical treatment is if it is not safe for the medics to get to the suspect.

[TGS]

By policy, any injuries received prior to, during or after a person is taken into custody need to be treated. There is no excuse for not calling a squad to check them at the very least. Why assume that liability when you don't have to?

Any injury? If EMS were called every time someone got a bloody nose in my city, they would need a bus stationed at the sally port 24/7.

The reason I asked these questions is because I think that some people might be jumping the shark on laying into the officers for not calling EMS. We know after the fact that she had a broken orbital. Okay.....what signs did she present that she needed medical attention? What symptoms was she complaining of that demanded EMS be called? Just because she had a broken orbital doesn't mean anyone present would have automatically known she had a broken orbital and required hospitalization.

Actually, if EMS were called there, they very well may not have been able to ascertain she had a broken orbital either. There's a reason that we're pain-in-the-ass legalesed drones when we get calls where we can't find any obvious signs of injury. We're not doctors, we don't have insta-X-ray vision built into our glasses, so we can't actually tell if you are okay or not. So we automatically tell you that you should go to the hospital regardless for CYA purposes, and if you don't want to then we have you sign a waiver/refusal. A cop doesn't really have this option since he's not an ambulance...he/she needs to decide on scene whether the perp needs medical attention (unless they ask for it). Usually, this comes down to physical signs of injury or complaints of symptoms, neither of which this lady appeared to exhibit.

My point being how would a cop then be able to tell she needed medical attention? What, because she got slammed to the ground she automatically rates an eval? If that's the standard, then we better upgrade that bus commitment at the sally port x3, because the jail just became a mass casualty incident.

I mean, come on guys...think about it. Do you call EMS for every perp you slam to the ground? Probably not. Now what if one of those many takedowns ended up in a stable fracture that was discovered after the fact, because it wasn't immediately apparent on scene.....would that mean you made a bad call? Of course not. What matters is what was reasonable to suspect on scene.

She was kicking and screaming while apparently not giving a crap about her broken orbital, and from the video (I didn't watch the whole thing, admittedly) I couldn't really see any reason to suggest that it was unreasonable for the officers to not call EMS at the time. I'm not a cop, that's just my opinion as EMS.

[Chuck Haggard]

Our policy requires medical attention be provided if they request it.

This may be an ambulance coming to the scene or us transporting them to the ER on the way to jail.


Not getting into the pros and cons of this arrest, I think regardless of those issues the medical part alone is going to cost that jurisdiction a lot of money.


I'll note the Graham decision, which is THE ruling for police use of force, stemmed from what was a medical issue.