Nailing down the handgun(s)

[ASH556]

I have my rifles and shotgun where they need to be. I though I was all set with my pistols, but lately I'm beginning to wonder. I have a pair of 9mm M&P's. One sits at home with an AAC EVO-9 silencer, Surefire X300, DG switch, and Crimson Trace grips...it's a really nice setup. The other is a daily carry gun with factory night sights and an X300 light.

Here's my thing, my wife is not a gun person. She'll shoot something if I put it in her hands, but she's requested that I pick one, show her how to use it, and let it be. So, that being said, I don't think the suppressed M&P setup is going to be that gun...it just has too much going on. I set it up with the light and laser and DG switch so it was all ready to go just by picking it up, but I think there are some issues with it:

1) It's big, physically and therefore a little intimidating
2) The suppressor is registered to me individually and not on my trust because I got it before we were together, so her using it, especially if I'm out of town could present legal issues.
3) Because if its size, she's also very unlikely to take it with her while walking the dog, baby, etc.
4) If it were to malfunction, she wouldn't know how to clear it, and is not likely to train to the point where it would become the immediate response that it needs to be.

So, with all of that said, there's another issue:

My carry M&P is not making me happy in the accuracy department. Yes, I know it's somewhat of a "known" issue and I could pay for a barrel, etc. Still, I'm wondering if I'm better off switching platforms. I initially tried to defend the M&P and have shot pretty good groups with it at 25 yds, like the 4" group shown below with one "flier." However, after shooting the pistol some more including some time on sand bags, I've discovered the following:

1) The gun is very ammo sensitive in terms of accuracy
2) Those "fliers" weren't me. Even on sandbags, the pistol would always throw one or two rounds that would open the group from 3 or 4 inches to 6 or 8 inches @ 25yds. As a civilian carrying the pistol, that's not a good margin of error to begin with.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/20130125_202318.jpg

So here's what I'm thinking:

Ditch both M&P's with all the mags, lasergrips, light (keep one X300), switch, etc.

Also ditch the 9mm silencer...probably not worth much, but I bet I could get $300 or so for it.

1) Buy an S&W 642 with Lasergrips and an Apex trigger kit for my wife. This will also serve as a good pocket carry gun for when we run out to the grocery store in the evenings and I have on basketball shorts or something.

My reasoning on the 642 beyond the general common sense about such things is my experience with my 55 year old mother. My stepdad travels a lot for work and she expressed interest in having a gun at home. I, of course, had some things in mind, but told her to meet me at the range. My idea was to let her shoot several different guns and choose the one she wanted (still within a certain criteria of quality weapons). She chose the 642 hands-down, but with a laser because her aging eyes didn't allow her to easily use the small sights. Once we got the pistol with laser grips set up for her, she was able to keep 5 shots inside a 2" group off-hand @ 7yds with a decent firing cadence. This is a woman who has never fired a pistol before and with just some brief coaching by me. I feel my wife would have a similar experience and the 642 would be much less intimidating.

2) Buy a new primary carry pistol for myself. Before switching to the M&P 2 years ago, I carried and shot it competition a Glock 19 for 8 years. It was a Gen3 gun, and never gave me a moment's trouble function-wise, but the grip was just something I never enjoyed. I mean, I could make it work, but it took work. Before switching to the M&P I considered having a grip reduction done to remove the hump, but I decided to try the M&P instead.

I figure with selling both guns and all the other gear that should give me $1,300 or so without the silencer...$1600 or so with the silencer.

A new 642 from work is like $370 + CT grips pro-deal @ $120 + Apex spring kit $26 = $516.

So, that leaves me $784 to play with to get a new carry pistol. Preferably that would include a holster and a good set of sights too, but I can fudge +/- $100.

Bottom line questions:

1) Does the 642 setup sound to you like the better way to go for the wife?

2) Recommendations on a new primary carry pistol for me? I work at a shop and handle the stupid things all day, so I can talk myself into and out of all of them...one of the curses of the job I guess. Part of me says just go back to a Glock, but I really don't want to deal with that stupid grip...the pros are availability of mags, parts, and holsters, though.

I don't care for a DA/SA gun, but the accuracy of something like a Sig appeals to me. The pistol must have a rail for an X300. Really prefer to stay with 9mm. Availability of mags and spares is a priority with anything I choose. XD is not a contender. Maybe a PPQ, but I've read some striker issues with them, and am not sure about the differences with the Gen 1 and Gen 2.

[Al T.]

Let the wife shoot the 642 before you buy one. IME, light weight J frames are a binary switch for most folks - they either like'em or hate'em.

[TGS]

Small guns for small people that don't really care to shoot is usually a bad idea.

If you get the 642, get the CT 405 grips to cut down on the sting of firing a 642, and only load it with wadcutters to further cut down on the recoil. If you don't do these two things, then I'd say it's a terrible idea to buy her a 642. It will hurt so badly when she fires it that she'll never ever want to practice with it again.

I say the best course of action is to find something that she will enjoy shooting. If you can get her to actually enjoy it, and want to do it more, then obviously that road will go to good places....

[JBP55]

The PPQ M1 and PPQ M2 use different magazines and have a different style magazine release. You should let your wife try out a PPQ .

[gtmtnbiker98]

I replied to your thread on another forum; however, picking J-frames for new shooters is a piss poor choice. Truth be told, J-frames are poor choices for most that don't choose to master the platform. Let you wife make the choice and you support HER choice.

[ASH556]

Regarding the 642, the grips would be LG402 and the first box of ammo through the gun would be wadcutters. I did the same for my mother and my sister...neither had shot before and they both loved it. They were both much less comfortable with autos, which have less recoil.

I agree generally that handing someone with no experience and no training a small, light gun and just letting them run is a bad idea. However, stepping them through the process as I did with my mother generally yields the 642 as the best option. I'll get to the range with my mom's 642 and let my wife shoot it first to make sure she doesn't hate it...I'll let her shoot some other stuff too, but she's looking at it as a tool, not a comfortable, enjoyable thing.

[Tamara]

1) Does the 642 setup sound to you like the better way to go for the wife?

Airweight DAO .38 J-frames have probably turned more women off on shooting than any other gun.

[ASH556]

Airweight DAO .38 J-frames have probably turned more women off on shooting than any other gun.

Okay...generalized opinion. A full-size 9mm doesn't exactly feel great to her either and it's too large for her to carry so what's the point. An uncomfortable gun carried with her is more valuable than a comfortable gun sitting at home. She isn't going to train tap-rack-bang, so it seems to me a revolver is the better choice...maybe an SP-101, then? Little heavier?

[JBP55]

Airweight DAO .38 J-frames have probably turned more women off on shooting than any other gun.


And most of them were not picked by the end user.

[nalesq]

Okay...generalized opinion. A full-size 9mm doesn't exactly feel great to her either and it's too large for her to carry so what's the point. An uncomfortable gun carried with her is more valuable than a comfortable gun sitting at home. She isn't going to train tap-rack-bang, so it seems to me a revolver is the better choice...maybe an SP-101, then? Little heavier?

The SP-101 is pretty heavy and is therefore not likely to get carried around much by someone not willing to deal with a belt and holster.

If she hates the .38 j-frame due to the recoil, another possibility is getting something like a Ruger LCR-22 - small, lightweight, and very easy and comfortable to shoot, especially with the CT grips. Some triggers seem to come better from the factory than others though, so if possible I'd test a prospective purchase with a little dry fire to make sure you don't have a sucky trigger.

[ASH556]

People keep mentioning the trigger...I know I wrote a novel in the OP, but an APEX spring set is part of the plan for the J-frame.

[JeffJ]

Is your wife actually going to carry the gun? It sounds like (and maybe I'm reading into this based on personal experience) that she's willing to let you buy something and she'll stick in the nightstand and occasionally go the range with you. If she's not going to carry then teach her how to handle a shotgun or carbine that you already own.

FWIW, I love my airweight j frame - it's my "all the time" gun, but for the j frame, crimson trace, apex package - you could buy her almost anything she might want.

[nalesq]

People keep mentioning the trigger...I know I wrote a novel in the OP, but an APEX spring set is part of the plan for the J-frame.

I meant the trigger specifically in a Ruger LCR-22, for which there is no Apex spring set.

S&W .22LR j-frames seem to be much harder to come by, but if you can find one, that would be cool. Still, messing with springs on a .22LR revolver seem to diminish reliability more readily than on a centerfire revolver.

[Tamara]

People keep mentioning the trigger...I know I wrote a novel in the OP, but an APEX spring set is part of the plan for the J-frame.

It's still gonna be a long ten-pound trigger in a one-pound gun.

[GardoneVT]

Step one: send the M&P back to S&W for work regarding the accuracy . I shot one last year and it had 2" groups offhand at 7 yards. I doubt the factory would balk at switching the barrel.

Step two: take the lady to the biggest gun shop in town and have her spend quality time trying out different guns. We all have different hand sizes and comfort levels. As such, she's going to have to find out for herself what feels good and what doesn't. She might like a small Glock 19.....or a large , full side 1911 .45 ACP. We don't know yet.

Once she's got the general idea of what gun to use narrowed down , the next task is to rent or find a pal's guns she can shoot. That'll iron out if her choices at the counter have merit or not. If they do, eliminate what she doesn't like and go shopping. If every gun she picks doesn't pan out on the firing line, go back to the store and start over.

Its a time consuming process, to be sure. But there's no way to know what guns she may or may not like until she actually handles them. No amount of discussion or research can make up for live fire results.

Good luck!

[Rich]

I got my X wife to like shooting a J frame. she 5'6 and about 100 pounds.

But only the Steel Frame 640 with 3 finger grip! BTW I wouldn't pocket carry it !

The Steel frame J takes the already mild recoil of the 38spl and Tames it even more.

My wife didn't enjoy shooting the 642.
Hard to teach if she doesn't want to shoot more than 1 box of ammo.

That's why the 640 shines.





When I bought my Sig P229 in 4-98 after 500rds I was loving it.
Accuracy was way better than my Gen 3 S&W 5906 and 6906 and so was the trigger or action.

So I' m a Sig Fan of some of there Pistols! If I was going to buy one today it would be the Navy MK25 then a P226.

I don't know what to think of the New M11A1 with DASH -1 Slide and long extractor.

[Rich]

Airweight DAO .38 J-frames have probably turned more women off on shooting than any other gun.
+1
AMEN!!

But that why we ended up with the heavy 640
she used a IWB summer and paddle during the fall / winter

[TGS]

Okay...generalized opinion. A full-size 9mm doesn't exactly feel great to her either and it's too large for her to carry so what's the point. An uncomfortable gun carried with her is more valuable than a comfortable gun sitting at home. She isn't going to train tap-rack-bang, so it seems to me a revolver is the better choice...

Something to think of, that I tried alluding to:

Don't discount her potential. By saying, "She isn't going to train tap-rack-bang" and using that as an influence on the decision of which pistol to buy, you're automatically limiting her to less optimal pistols which she is likely to not want to shoot as much.....with the end result that she will indeed, as you predict, not educate/train herself further. So, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, there. Vicious cycle. Your goal is to not fall into that cycle like most dudes.

Let her shoot a Walther PPS. Lightweight and slim, very easy to shoot accurately, soft recoil....it really is a fantastic pistol; if there was ever a gun I regret getting rid of, that's it. What you're probably thinking now: "Well, but she's not going to learn immediate action drills, so no. How many times do I have to repeat myself?" Well, maybe she'll actually like the piece, and like shooting it, and imagine that.....she'll not have any reservations against learning, and the possibilities of what she can accomplish are unlimited! Some other pistols that fall into this area may be the HK P2000sk, Glock 26, Walther P99c, and so on.

The last thing I'll recommend is to read the "Buying a Gun for your Wife" (http://www.corneredcat.com/article/for-the-men/buying-a-gun-for-your-wife/) over on The Cornered Cat, because it addresses your entire dilemma in the first 2 lines:


The best defensive firearm for someone who doesn’t want one, or who won’t practice with it, is …

NONE.

Otherwise, it sounds like you have your mind already made up and are only looking for validation, so rock on.

[ADKilla]

Step two: take the lady to the biggest gun shop in town and have her spend quality time trying out different guns. We all have different hand sizes and comfort levels. As such, she's going to have to find out for herself what feels good and what doesn't.

Its a time consuming process, to be sure. But there's no way to know what guns she may or may not like until she actually handles them. No amount of discussion or research can make up for live fire results.

Concur completely! My wife doesn't shoot often. She also hates any DAO trigger, including my light LEM HKs, which she found out during live fire. Her preferred pistol is a Browning High Power. The extra weight let's her control recoil while the SAO trigger--although long on the pre-travel and reset--is easy for her to manipulate. In the end it's not about a guy picking the firearm for the woman; it's about letting them experience variety and deciding what's best for them.

[ASH556]

Quick update:

I have a range date scheduled for 9AM Saturday before I start my shift (I work for one of the largest shops/indoor ranges in the area part-time on Saturdays) with my wife and my mom. Among other things, my wife will try my Mom's 642/CT grips, My M&P 9FS setup with the can/etc, a Walther PPS, a Glock 19, Glock 26, and anything else she wants to. We don't have a Shield in the rental case, but I might be able to scare one up for her to try out.

We talked through some things and options tonight. I had her shoulder the Benelli M1 18.5" She said it was long and heavy (That's what she said!:p) I also had her hold the M&P setup again...she commented that it was nice and easy to handle with or without the suppressor, but was too large for her to grab and take on a walk, etc. We'll see what happens Saturday.

As far as my pistol, someone recommended I try the factory threaded barrel and see how it shoots @ 25yds...this being a nightstand gun until now, I put a few hundred rounds through it with the suppressor to make sure it ran okay, and then just set it up. I've never really shot it for groups @ 25. I'll do that Saturday evening after my shift and if it groups well, I have the answer for myself...provided my wife doesn't end up choosing it for herself. If she does or if it doesn't group any better, I'll order one of the more accurate barrels for my M&P. I checked with G&R on the custom-fit Storm Lake barrels, but was told a 12 month waiting list. I've seen some decent results posted out of some of the drop-in options. I may look into those if the threaded barrel doesn't shoot well.

I basically reached the conclusion that the M&P was the pistol I really wanted to be carrying and shooting. I love everything about it except the accuracy. If that can be fixed with a new barrel, I'm in business!

[Clusterfrack]

Airweight DAO .38 J-frames have probably turned more women off on shooting than any other gun.

That's been my observation too. The latest of these was after a local match last year. One guy's girlfriend was there to observe. She was not a shooter and he talked her into trying his airweight loaded with +P. After one shot she said "you ASSHOLE" and left.

[WDW]

I'd get her a Shield. That's what my wife shoots. Mine is very accurate & has been reliable thus far (around 500rds). They do not exhibit the accuracy shortcomings of the FS9 M&P. it's not much larger than an Airweight either.

[Wendell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH9lNyhSYV8

[Tamara]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH9lNyhSYV8

Jesus wept, I only got thirty seconds into that video before I wanted to go run a cylinder through my 3" 629 just to drown her out.

Did she make more sense after the 50 second mark?

[Josh Runkle]

What does she enjoy shooting? If it's a .22 or whatever, keep that as her self-defense gun.

[Chuck Haggard]

Jesus wept, I only got thirty seconds into that video before I wanted to go run a cylinder through my 3" 629 just to drown her out.

Did she make more sense after the 50 second mark?

Her tone of voice bugging you? Because her observation about :26 that the guy behind the gun store counter isn't going to sell you what's best for you is correct 99% of the time.

Then; don't start on a tiny gun, her first pistol was a Glock 17, .......

[Tamara]

Her tone of voice bugging you? Because her observation about :26 that the guy behind the gun store counter isn't going to sell you what's best for you is correct 99% of the time...

It's a complicated interplay of things that probably wouldn't bug a lot of people here but heterodyne for me until it's just fingernails on a chalkboard.

[Chuck Haggard]

Message is good, delivery was a bit grating to me.

[Kyle Reese]

Message is good, delivery was a bit grating to me.

Agreed. I've had female friends in years gone by who wanted to buy a general purpose handgun, and they were convinced at the gun shop that they needed a Glock 33 or a J-Frame.

[Chuck Haggard]

Last time I was at Cabela's I almost jumped the counter and throat punched the gun counter jerk.

Tyring to sell a Beretta 92 to a gal who was like 5'2". It was immediately clear they were overstocked on Berettas and trying to move them.

Then there is the Judge, which makes baby Odin weep.....

[GardoneVT]

Last time I was at Cabela's I almost jumped the counter and throat punched the gun counter jerk.

Tyring to sell a Beretta 92 to a gal who was like 5'2". It was immediately clear they were overstocked on Berettas and trying to move them.

Then there is the Judge, which makes baby Odin weep.....

In defense of the 92,I've seen a 5'1" chick out shoot her husband with mine.Poor woman couldn't even reach the slide lock lever,but she could hit the bulls eye.

That being said,it's almost criminal how women are treated at gun shops.There's the smarmy sales rep out to move his LCP backstock,and then you've got husbands and boyfriends who condesecendingly state their woman can't handle a "full size" gun.The reality is of course he's afraid she can outshoot him with his own sh-t,which I've seen happen at the public range a couple of times.

[Crews]

I'm going through this myself. Struggling to find the first lady a good carry weapon that she also enjoys shooting. She enjoys my G19 and shoots it well, but it's too big for her to carry. She likes revolvers but isn't crazy about DA triggers. She's fine with SA. I'm leaning towards towards something like an SP101 with a hammer.

[GardoneVT]

I'm going through this myself. Struggling to find the first lady a good carry weapon that she also enjoys shooting. She enjoys my G19 and shoots it well, but it's too big for her to carry. She likes revolvers but isn't crazy about DA triggers. She's fine with SA. I'm leaning towards towards something like an SP101 with a hammer.

Just tossing out some suggestions,but have you two considered a Hi-Power or one of the Star Firestars?The latter in single stack is a very manageable 9mm ,although parts and service is hard to come by.

[JBP55]

I'm going through this myself. Struggling to find the first lady a good carry weapon that she also enjoys shooting. She enjoys my G19 and shoots it well, but it's too big for her to carry. She likes revolvers but isn't crazy about DA triggers. She's fine with SA. I'm leaning towards towards something like an SP101 with a hammer.


Someone posted an SP101 on a local board this afternoon, let me know if you want details.

[Crews]

My drawbacks with a SAO for her... She doesn't trust herself to remember to take the safety off in a stressful situation. Plus, she just doesn't have enough time to practice enough to be proficient with an auto. I'd be worried about limp wristing, etc if she ever had to use it.

[Chuck Haggard]

My wife gave my G26 back after she started shooting Kahrs, now she has two of them.

[JeffJ]

My wife is a big Kahr fan too, I told her I'd get her one (even if I had to sell something, which simply isn't done in my house) if she would get her CHL and commit to carrying it. We currently do not own any Kahr handguns. :(

[Al T.]

Plus, she just doesn't have enough time to practice enough to be proficient with an auto.

I'm a bit confused about this statement. If she doesn't have enough time to get good with an autochucker, she's going to absolutely suck with a revolver. That 12 pound pull on a two pound gun makes for a lot of work.

A G19, a handful of snap caps and some dry firing can gain her the skills to "run the gun" faster than trying to increase hand and grip strength needed for a revolver.... FWIW, I'm an old guy who loves wheelguns, but understands that things have progressed.

[ffhounddog]

My wife shoots a G22 and carries a G23 both gen3s. She has no problems running those guns. You would be amazed what people think they can and cannot run when they come to a platform with open minds.

[JAD]

I'll second the kahrs but nominate the steel versions. The polymer guns are unpleasant. I've had good luck with a couple of pm9s but sold them to force carry with a service pistol, but I may re explore them after the current year of glockitude.

[Chuck Haggard]

Two of the gals in Tom Given's instructor course this past weekend were running G17s, they were both like 5' even maybe. Tiny gals but they did fine.

[Drang]

Just tossing out some suggestions,but have you two considered a Hi-Power or one of the Star Firestars?The latter in single stack is a very manageable 9mm ,although parts and service is hard to come by.

Mrs. Drang is still surprised how well she shoots her Firestar .40.
(As opposed to her LCR or LCP.)(Yes, I tried to warn her.)

[Tamara]

Firestar .40.

Ouch. Props from me.

[ffhounddog]

My mom carries a Glock 23 because my wife was carrying one off duty. My mom said it has less recoil than her Air weight J frame 2 inch model the gun store guy told her to get. Well yeah there is some weight and is a gen4. I do not know what model of smith it is she has, on the phone she calls it her Air weight.

My dad was amazed by how she took to shooting the Glock compared to a revolver.

[JAD]

Mrs. Drang is still surprised how well she shoots her Firestar .40.
(As opposed to her LCR or LCP.)(Yes, I tried to warn her.)

Does she run it with a high thumb? I couldn't get over the hard right angle on the safety lever. Firestar .45s used to be pretty shiny.

[ASH556]

Well, the range date was a success, if not in the way I had hoped. My wife shot:
The suppressed M&P 9 setup I mentioned in the first post
A Glock 26
A Walther PPS 9mm w/Veridion laser
My mom's 642 with laser grips
And a 4" Ruger GP100

9's used 115gr S&B ball
.38's used Atlanta Arms wadcutters

I was very impressed with how well she shot each pistol. Her overall group consisting of all shots fired from all pistols was about 6" and without the 3 shots she pulled high from Mom's J frame it was a solid 3" group (7 yds).

She had a very strong preference for the M&P 9 after trying everything else. I was a little disappointed because by her own words, it's too large for her to take anywhere. However, she is comfortable shooting it and shot it very well! We talked some more after the fact and what she shared with me is that while she's not opposed to it, shooting is no something she is very interested in devoting a lot of time to right now. While I wish the case were otherwise, I understand and respect her position. We had our first child 9 months ago and she is starting do do some part-time work again so her plate is pretty full. I don't want to force her into it and it won't mean as much to her if she just does it to please me. It was a labor of love for her to come to the range this morning and I appreciate her doing so. So as far as a pistol for her/the home we are squared away.

Now, what does remain is to get my carry gun squared up. I shot some more 25 yd groups today with it and also had a friend/mentor (the man who taught me how to shoot a pistol) who is a former Bianchi Cup champion and US pistol shooting team member shoot a rested 25 yd group with it as well. His group had 7 of 10 rds in 2" and the other three 6-8" away from the rest of the group, which mimics my results with the unexplained fliers. I believe I'm going to send the pistol back to Smith. How have others' experiences been in getting Smith to fix the gun? How does Smith feel about stippled frames?

The one bit of encouraging news is that the factory 1/2 x 28 threaded barrel I have shoots great at 25yds! Problem is, that's in the HD gun. I just have to get the carry gun sorted.

[Nephrology]

Jesus wept, I only got thirty seconds into that video before I wanted to go run a cylinder through my 3" 629 just to drown her out.

Did she make more sense after the 50 second mark?

Internet personalities tend to say in 120 seconds what could be said in 2. Sort of like Sarah Palin, minus the resentment for all of the dashed hopes and broken dreams.

[ffhounddog]

If you can have her try the M&Pc in 9mm. That could be a good gun for her to use if she likes the full size.

[Sunday]

I have both steel and light weight S@W J frames. A 158 grain +p load in the all steel frame is a that is not a bad load type of feeling. A 158 Grain +P in an light weight j frame is ouch what the @#$%$# feeling. The secret is using a wad cutter load for the Mrs' j frame.

[Sunday]

Does she run it with a high thumb? I couldn't get over the hard right angle on the safety lever. Firestar .45s used to be pretty shiny.
There is a lady that frequents the gun range I go to. She is petite and very feminine in build ,she also shoots action pistol and I am safe to say she shoots great. One day we were out shooting and I notice she has a Kahr P9. Dang she shoots that thing good I thought. Only to later find out that is was a P 40 S@W!!!

[ASH556]

So I called S&W yesterday and after being on-hold for 30 minutes, I was able to talk to a customer service rep. I explained that I had a pair of 9mm M&P full-size pistols purchased at the same time. One, with a factory threaded barrel shot fine and the other did not. He said they would e-mail me a return shipping label within a few days. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure it'll be here today or tomorrow. I told him the pistol had a stippled frame and asked if that would be a problem. He told me that as long as the internals had not been modified, there would be no problem (they haven't been). So, hopefully, the issue of my carry gun will be resolved that way.

I had occasion to shoot the house gun without the suppressor attached for a quick 25yd offhand group, but the range I was in didn't have a good support setup, so I just did the best I could offhand. I also wanted to verify that the laser was on with the sights at that distance (or at least reasonably close). What you see below is a 6" 10-shot group. We know that a benched pistol will shoot better, more consistently as shooter error is removed, so the pistol should shoot even better from a rest. I plan to try that next week. Regardless, its safe to say that this pistol with this barrel shoots much better than the other (carry) one and I am happy with its performance:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5444/9784990165_70c68748b4_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9784990165/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9784990165/) by ASH556 (http://www.flickr.com/people/87859750@N03/), on Flickr

[Tamara]

Be interested in knowing what effect the can has on groups.

[ASH556]

Be interested in knowing what effect the can has on groups.

Well, I took the time to test that Saturday. I'm wanting to get home and run the targets through "on-target" to get accurate group measurements, but here's a sneak peak:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/9889267613_0e9b069aa3_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9889267613/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9889267613/) by ASH556 (http://www.flickr.com/people/87859750@N03/), on Flickr
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2844/9889156396_8ffc946835_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9889156396/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/9889156396/) by ASH556 (http://www.flickr.com/people/87859750@N03/), on Flickr

[ScotchMan]

On the topic of girlfriends/wives and guns, my story is pretty much the same as others. The first gun my girlfriend shot with me was a 342 J-frame, possibly with +Ps. It was my dad's gun at the time, and turned her off to shooting for a solid year. The 342 is even lighter than the 642, about 4oz. lighter!

Now she has a Kahr CM9. She can rack the slide, but its really hard for her and takes some doing. She doesn't like shooting it, but can tolerate it. When we go to the range it usually stays at home. She doesn't have much of an interest in shooting or training, but wants something for when I'm not around. She can't conceal the CM9 reliably.

Based on the above, I really really want her to adopt my S&W K-frame for nightstand use. No slide to rack, very simple to use for someone who isn't practicing a lot. But she absolutely hates revolvers and won't consider it. It is something I have just had to make my peace with, because even though I think it would be a great choice, if she doesn't like it then it doesn't matter.

Took her shopping a few times, and currently at the top of the list for her is a PX4 Storm 9mm, Full-size or Compact. She would also love any of the H&K 9mms from the P2000sk to the P30, but likes the Beretta just as much for half the price. We will also probably get her a P238 or similar for carry, but that is lower priority.

She knows how to use the 870 in the meantime, which is a great choice. Her comfort level with that will be less than with a handgun that is hers and that she knows she can handle. It really is all about letting them choose what they want!

[Tamara]

It really is all about letting them choose what they want!

We're a lot like people that way. ;)