Week 79: Original Air Marshal Pistol Qual

[ToddG]

Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 79: FAM PTC
results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Monday 16-September-2013.

Range: 7yd
Target: Three (3) FBI QIT, IPSC metric, or IDPA targets
Start position: varies
Rounds fired: 30

This exercise will require you to engage multiple full size targets. If your range does not allow this, you will not be able to participate this week.

The original Federal Air Marshal Tactical Pistol Course was designed to test FAMs immediately before a mission. The test has to be shot cold (no prior shooting that day). An Air Marshal who could not pass the TPC was not allowed to fly!

You can download a scoresheet with complete instructions here. (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/PTC-FAM-TPC.pdf)


Draw from concealment and fire one shot. Repeat. Total time for the two runs combined must be no more than 3.30 seconds.
From the ready, fire two shots. Repeat. Total time for the two runs combined must be no more than 2.70 seconds.
From the ready, six rounds on target. Time limit is 3.00 seconds and no shot-to-shot split can be greater than 0.60 seconds. (you do not repeat this string)
From the ready, one shot, speed/in-battery reload, and one more shot. Repeat. Total time for the two runs combined must be no more than 6.50 seconds.
From the ready, one round each at two targets at least 3yd apart. Repeat. Total time for the two runs combined must be no more than 3.30 seconds.
Begin facing uprange concealed. On the buzzer, turn to your right and fire one round on each of three targets. Repeat a second time turning to your left. Total time for the two runs combined must be no more than 7.00 seconds.
Begin with one round in the gun at the ready. On the buzzer fire, drop to one knee, reload from slidelock, and fire a second shot. Repeat. Total time for the two runs combined must be no more than 8.00 seconds.


Scoring is as follows:

Must finish within the indicated time limit for each string or you fail.
If all of the times are achieved, you must also score 135 points out of 150 to pass.



Shots completely inside the bottle (Q target), IPSC A/B/C zones, or IDPA 0/-1 zones score 5 points each. Hits that touch the line do not count.
Shots that hit the target but don't score in the 5-point zones are 2 points each.
Shots that miss the target earn no points.


Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

gun & holster used
PASS or FAIL
total number of points scored


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[ToddG]

SACS/Warren 9mm 1911 (http://pistol-training.com/archives/6936) in a JM Custom Kydex AIWB (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html) underneath a polo

PASS, 150 out of 150

[Kevin B.]

Glock 22 in a 6004. Full kit minus helmet.

Pass. 150/150

Reshot it with an M-9 in a 6004. Full kit minus helmet

Pass. 150/150

[Rj5284]

Glock 19 9mm in a JM Custom Kydex AIWB underneath a polo

FAIL, 138 out of 150. Failed to make PAR Time.

[ST911]

Glock 19 (gen2), Blade-Tech 3:00 OWB, open front vest
Fail
140/150 points

Time on stage one was 3.67 (2.01, 1.66). That's usually what gets me. All else was GTG.

[JHC]

RTF2 G19 with standard mag release and slide release, minus connector, Trijicon HD orange sights. Holster was a Talon Tactical A10 from under an open Mountain Hardware softshell.

Pass & 147 pts Racing faster than necessary I threw the D hit on Stage 5. Shot it ice cold and have never shot this before and when doing that, one can be a little paranoid about perceptions of how fast the PAR standard is which ended up with racing faster than necessary.

[2alpha-down0]

M&P9 in a JMCK AIWB under a polo.

Pass, 141/150.

[Chris Rhines]

Gen 4 Glock 34 in a Dark Star Gear AIWB holster, under a t-shirt. IDPA targets.

S1 - 2.86s - Pass
S2 - 2.03s - Pass
S3 - 1.83s - Pass
S4 - 5.65s - Pass
S5 - 2.61s - Pass
S6 - 5.35s - Pass
S7 - 7.24s - Pass

Total score of 144/150, for an overall Pass.

This is the first time I've pulled out the AIWB holster this year. I'm happy.

[KevinB]

I shot this with Todd on Friday

144/150

Fail PAR time bit me huge

9mm S&W M&P CORE with DeltaPoint and X300 light - RCS Phanton at 3 O'clock

[ST911]

For those dropping time, what stage(s) are getting you?

[KevinB]

For those dropping time, what stage(s) are getting you?

Pretty much everything -- I managed to draw my shirt/gun - load my shirt/mag and toss a mag on the ground during the event (I call it an event, as I managed to give everyone some good laughs)

The shirt I was wearing was a button up, and went about 7-8" past my belt line, even will a full grab with my left hand I was not clearing the gun all the time.
Todd and others made some remarks about suitability of clothes.

[ST911]

Pretty much everything -- I managed to draw my shirt/gun - load my shirt/mag and toss a mag on the ground during the event (I call it an event, as I managed to give everyone some good laughs)

The shirt I was wearing was a button up, and went about 7-8" past my belt line, even will a full grab with my left hand I was not clearing the gun all the time.
Todd and others made some remarks about suitability of clothes.

The TPC is definitely something you can dress well or poorly for.

[AJZ]

M&P9FS in a Keepers AIWB under a polo shirt

Run 1: Pass, 150/150

[MDS]

G17/4 from SME under sexy-time T shirt.

147/150, failed par on string 3 by .06s.

Protip: keep the form-fitting shirts in the bedroom, where (hopefully) they won't kitten your reloads. (I had a >6s reload during a fast on the same day.)

[CCT125US]

HK P30 v3, 5 Shot SME

Pass, 150/150

[GJM]

Pretty interesting how different some organizations qual test philosophies are. This one seems to have a relatively low accuracy standard, with a priority on speed, given any time missed is a FAIL, and no suggestion to shoot to a specific pace.

I decided to use the timer as a start signal only, not study the time allotted, and just shoot when I had an acceptable sight picture.

Gen 3 G17, HD sights, Fricke Gideon, Filson vest.
Pass, 150/150

Since Chris R reported it, here are my raw times.

1.30, 1.29 = 2.59
.91, .93 = 1.84
2.06
2.54, 2.69 = 5.23
1.35, 1.25 = 2.60
2.18, 2.28 = 4.46
4.28 (slide stop dropped early and had to run slide), 2.78 = 7.06

All my hits were to 8 inch circle or USPSA A zone (used both kind of targets).

Had a few rounds left, and decided to shoot the FAST, using the no stress/solely sight driven speed, and interestingly both were clean, and the exact same time -- 4.89. This caps a run of 11 out of 13 clean FAST, with a total of one missed body and one missed head out of 78 shots.

[GJM]

I decided the size of the target was just too big, and shot it again doing a variation. I decided the only thing that would score, and that would be 5 points, would be the inner head part of the bottle of the PF target, with the 3x5 considered an X. Anything outside the inner bottle, including the outer head box, would get 0.

Same as before G3 G17, HD sights, Fricke, Filson vest.

Pass, 145/150

I tried to again just shoot sight picture, but realized there wasn't extra time to waste and I had to scoot. Here was the breakdown:

1.45, 1.46 = 2.91
1.17, 1.07 = 2.24
2.78
2.82, 2.93 = 5.75
1.30, 1.11 = 2.41
2.43, 2.52 = 4.95

3.31, 3.41 = 6.72 (threw the second shot on first string from kneeling)

20 X (into the 3x5)
9 in the surrounding small head bottle
1 just a smidge out

Total time was 27.76 seconds versus 25.84 when I did the drill the first time to the larger target. Since total time available is 33.8 seconds, I am tempted to try it again using only the 3x5 box as scoring.

[BN]

Gen 4 G-17, Comp-Tac IWB, 5.11 vest.

FAIL 150/150. Stage 5, I was over time by .05 seconds. :(

Ran 3 mid to high 5 second FASTs clean, patterned some buckshot out of the 20 gauge 1100 and shot the FAM again.

FAIL 150/150. Stage 5, I was over time by .13 seconds.

I had a hard time giving up my accuracy. The second run I kept track of points down if I was scoring IDPA. I was down 5 points.

[GJM]

OK, now this is getting fun. I just did the qual, but to the 3x5 card.

G17, Gideon, Filson vest.
49F and light to moderate rain (hands were cold at end)

1.47, 1.55 = 3.02 (limit 3.30)
1.10, 1.01 = 2.11 (limit 2.70) -1 hit
2.87 (limit 3.0)
3.58, 3.03 = 6.61 (limit 6.50, over .11)
1.47, 1.34 = 2.81 (limit 3.30)
2.65, 3.26 = 5.91 (limit 7.0) - 1 hit
3.49, 3.48 = 6.77 (limit 8.0)

Total 140/150 points
Fail, over .11 in string 4

It was great to see 28/30 holes in the 3x5.

Then I fired a FAST clean, tried a second and three times trying couldn't draw the pistol at the beep as my hands had gotten so cold and gave up.

[GJM]

The TPC is definitely something you can dress well or poorly for.

your in box is full

[gtmtnbiker98]

HK P30 V1 9mm

Pass 150/150

1. 1.42, 1.51 2.93
2. .84, .72 1.56
3. 1.25
4. 2.11, 2.60 4.71
5. 1.20, 1.09, 2.39
6. 2.43, 2.46, 4.89
7. 3.02, 3.14, 6.16

Used an IDPA target, all hits -0. Outside temp, 92 deg, heat index, "balls hot!"

[GJM]

OK, Origami, dare you to run this not to the 3x5, but to a two inch dot!

[JeffJ]

Glock 19, bladetech nano under a sportscoat at 3:30

Fail - 150
Took 4.13 for the 1st string, 2.99 for the second

[KevinB]

It would be an interesting drill to shoot with a sports coat (considering the FAM dress policy, I'm not sure I want to ruin a suit jacket and definitely not pants on the range)

[JeffJ]

The sports coat can be interesting. The sweep back and draw is great, the grab as you extend the arms is not so great. In general, though, I really like it - it's become my go to day to day cover garment.

[Mr_White]

OK, Origami, dare you to run this not to the 3x5, but to a two inch dot!

Given the results from what I did do yesterday, I predict FAIL on that...

First run - used the standard target zone and allowed times, and shot it cold as per the instructions.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
PASS
total number of points scored 150/150


Second run - tight for accuracy with the regular times - used the upper A-zone as the 5 point zone, the B-zone as the 2 point zone, and everything else was a miss.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
FAIL
total number of points scored 129/150


Third run - tried again, slightly better result but not enough better.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
FAIL
total number of points scored 132/150


Fourth run - used the standard target zone, but with halved time limits. Some of those were just too tight for me and resulted in a ton of dropped points.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
FAIL
total number of points scored 96/150


That is a VERY interesting observation by GJM about misses vs. overtime shots in this qual. The FAMs, which I have seen held out as an example of an organization that must shoot to a standard of tight accuracy cold and on demand, used a qual that allowed multiple misses, a great big huge max-point target zone, but fails a shooter for one single drill over the time limit. Seems incongruous. And that's not even the current qual, which I understand to be considered easier.

[CCT125US]

What are the current FAM qual standards? Maybe next DotW?

[JHC]

Given the results from what I did do yesterday, I predict FAIL on that...

First run - used the standard target zone and allowed times, and shot it cold as per the instructions.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
PASS
total number of points scored 150/150


Second run - tight for accuracy with the regular times - used the upper A-zone as the 5 point zone, the B-zone as the 2 point zone, and everything else was a miss.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
FAIL
total number of points scored 129/150


Third run - tried again, slightly better result but not enough better.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
FAIL
total number of points scored 132/150


Fourth run - used the standard target zone, but with halved time limits. Some of those were just too tight for me and resulted in a ton of dropped points.


gun & holster used - Gen3 G34, Keeper concealed under a t-shirt
FAIL
total number of points scored 96/150


That is a VERY interesting observation by GJM about misses vs. overtime shots in this qual. The FAMs, which I have seen held out as an example of an organization that must shoot to a standard of tight accuracy cold and on demand, used a qual that allowed multiple misses, a great big huge max-point target zone, but fails a shooter for one single drill over the time limit. Seems incongruous. And that's not even the current qual, which I understand to be considered easier.

I recall credible reports that in the massive spool up after 9/11 that the fail rate was enormous and much of it due to shooting standards.

Around that time I worked with a fellow who had been a FAM in the '90's. I gathered that the object of this was the incredible stress it created when one was actually shooting to keep their job - cold - on demand. That is probably what the time standard Pass/Fail provided. I heard of other drills though on narrow vertical strips (spinal column) tests that sounded pretty challenging.

[BN]

FAIL 150/150. Stage 5, I was over time by .05 seconds. :(
FAIL 150/150. Stage 5, I was over time by .13 seconds.
I had a hard time giving up my accuracy.

I'm not used to failing, so I've been thinking about this qual. :) I am a competition gamer. ;) All I need to do on stage 5 is sling 3 shots downrange within the time limit. Even if all 3 are misses I will be flying instead of grounded. :mad:

Does this mean this qualification is flawed or do I just need to shoot faster. This ties in to the software thread a little.

[Slavex]

Don't you have a Value Village down there you could hit for some nice range suits?


It would be an interesting drill to shoot with a sports coat (considering the FAM dress policy, I'm not sure I want to ruin a suit jacket and definitely not pants on the range)

[BLR]

Holster: IWB Kirkpatric SAS
Pistol: WC 10mm Tac Elite Supergrade
Ammo: 170g Moly coated TC, PF of 180

Pass. 146/150.

That huge funnel of a mag well sure helps. Even with it bent in 1/16th of an inch. :(

[BN]

I shot this again today and gamed the heck out of it. :cool:

147/150 and made all times. Of course, that one round was almost off the target and had the potential to be whizzing around inside an aircraft, but I was flying. ;)

[gringop]

Pass
147/150
QIT99
G19
Sparks Executive Companion under a t-shirt.

Threw the first shot an inch right outside on account of shooting too fast.

1. 1.54, 158
2. 1.16, 1.16
3. 2.07
4. 3.17, 3.25
5. 1.36, 1.43
6. 2.40, 2.71
7. 3.72, 3.34

This drill was my cold test drill before I found the FAST. When you use an 8" circle target it's a great stretch goal.

Gringop

[John Hearne]

The FAM's no longer shoot this course. They now shoot the standard FLETC course and require 285/300 (95%) to pass.

[ToddG]

The FAM's no longer shoot this course. They now shoot the standard FLETC course and require 285/300 (95%) to pass.

There is a modified version of the TPC that they still use, but it is not a pass/fail qualification. It's more of a regular set of drills they practice and most of the changes were to adopt new TTPs into the exercises.

[Corey]

Used my IDPA rig as usual, M&P9, Blade-tech holster and mag carrier, concealed under a vest. Used the old P-T target and ran the drill once but scored three ways, Q target zone, 8" circle, and 6 inch circle. All 7 drills were under time but two of them the timer showed my last shot exactly at par time!

Q-target: pass 150 points
8" circle: pass 141 points
6" circle: fail 123 points

Been dry firing the last couple of weeks, looks like it helped.

[DocGKR]

M&P9 w/RMR07 in a Frick Seraphim AIWB under Aloha type shirt shooting Fed 147 gr AE9FP at IDPA targets, shot very cold...

1. 1.65/1.39
2. 1.26/1.15
3. 2.68
4. 3.51/2.96
5. 1.54/1.36
6. 3.07/2.98
7. 3.27/3.38

Total score of 147/150: Pass.