6 Seconds to 5 Seconds

[BLR]

FAST - I can do a 6 second (as in, the first digit will be a "6" on the timer) cold, clean, and 9/10 times.

I can do a 5 sec one 4 or 5/10 times (usually high 5s). Note: not doing more than 10 FAST drills per week (want to use it as more of a diagnostic than practice).

This is with a non-mag well, full size 1911, retro rear sight, gold bead front sight 45 shooting old spec ball (the new USMC 45 ball is.... H O T). In other words, not a game setup. Mags and gun are in leather, under a polo or tee.

Those that have made full second reductions in time, what did you do? There is a half second in reloads I am hoping to shave off. Draw...looking for a 0.25s reduction. I'm not entirely unhappy with my draw (based on video). Though, I know I am giving up lots of time with my reload.

I placed a target in my office, and have been doing dry fire practice with it (set a 15min/day allocation of time for it). Definitely helps. Still not making the progress I want.

Any suggestions? Should I get a more expensive gun? (I kid, I kid!!!)

[JV_]

Can you post up an average run?

Something like this: 1.80/.50/2.50/.25/.25/.25

[LittleLebowski]

Shooting partner who can push you.

[Mr_White]

Can you post up an average run?

Something like this: 1.80/.50/2.50/.25/.25/.25

This would help.

Video of you shooting it would really help.

The biggest time savings on the FAST come from the draw, the reload, and shooting it clean.

[CCT125US]

Finish the 3x5 sub 2sec, reload sub 2sec, remainder splits of .25, with some wiggle room worked in. The following thread really helped me actually do this.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4817-Soft-then-hard-then-soft-again&highlight=hard+soft+hard

[pointfiveoh]

My biggest gains have come from draw and reload improvements. Drills like 1r2 and timed draws to 3x5 at 7m made a huge difference for me. My biggest improvements in those drills came from timed dry fire work, very slowly decreasing par times over time.

[JHC]

FAST - I can do a 6 second (as in, the first digit will be a "6" on the timer) cold, clean, and 9/10 times.

I can do a 5 sec one 4 or 5/10 times (usually high 5s). Note: not doing more than 10 FAST drills per week (want to use it as more of a diagnostic than practice).

This is with a non-mag well, full size 1911, retro rear sight, gold bead front sight 45 shooting old spec ball (the new USMC 45 ball is.... H O T). In other words, not a game setup. Mags and gun are in leather, under a polo or tee.


That is pretty darn fancy for a .45 1911 IMO. Nice.

[BLR]

Splits are 0.32-0.35 for the 4 round part.

Only part I can remember. Will dig tomorrow for times.

JHC - why do you say that? 6.5s FAST for a 45 doesn't seem to great to me.

[Sparks2112]

Shooting partner who can push you.

And I'm right down the road. :)

[BLR]

And I'm right down the road. :)

You have an open invitation dude.

We have few range rules.

1. No plastic pistols. :D

[Sparks2112]

You have an open invitation dude.

We have few range rules.

1. No plastic pistols. :D

Hah...I'm not looking really hard at an HK p30 I can get with 6 magazines for a steal...

[JHC]

Splits are 0.32-0.35 for the 4 round part.

Only part I can remember. Will dig tomorrow for times.

JHC - why do you say that? 6.5s FAST for a 45 doesn't seem to great to me.

Because I don't see a lot of FAST results posted with a .45 1911 and in my recent years I've found the FAST and a lot of these other drills to be a BEAR to manage with a .45 vs a Glock 9mm. I've shot a fair number of clean FAST with G26-G17 under 6 but never got close with my 1911. Now I don't train it much anymore, as I did in the '80's but when I do I'm stunned at how much more work it is.

Some of that is because I'm no longer habituated to the light crisp SA trigger (my gun is a Dave Sams gun with a very nice trigger) but most of it is recoil management I think.

[JAD]

Because I don't see a lot of FAST results posted with a .45 1911
-- For me most of the difference with a 1911 is in the reload, and I don't see a ton of difference between a .38S LWC and a full size .45. I normally try to keep it to one gun at the range, but I'm taking some guys out in a week and we should have a GM, .45 LWC, P35, and G17 on hand. We'll clock 'em out.

[Kevin B.]

Bill,

I can/have broken 6.0 with a 1911 in .45. A few key components:


Work on getting the rounds into the 3x5 in ~2.0 seconds
Get the reload in ~2.25
.25 splits to the body


Something like a 1.6/.4/2.25/.25/.25/.25 puts you at 5.0. Independantly, those times are not too much of an issue. Putting it all together is the trick.

[YVK]

Add me to the "no luck with 1911 FAST" crowd. Reload from closed garment (AIWB carry) usually incurs some time penalty, 1911 reload incurs some penalty, reloads of 1911 from AIWB were just abysmal.

My second shot on 3x5 remained to be desired too. About a year ago or so I worked on various setups and found that I needed a tungsten guide rod to keep 3x5 split around 0.5 consistently, when shot in context of multiple shot strings or drills. YMMV, or course.

[JHC]

-- For me most of the difference with a 1911 is in the reload, and I don't see a ton of difference between a .38S LWC and a full size .45. I normally try to keep it to one gun at the range, but I'm taking some guys out in a week and we should have a GM, .45 LWC, P35, and G17 on hand. We'll clock 'em out.

+1. Trigger and recoil account for my misses and sticking the skinny mag into a skinnier magwell accounts for half of the total time! :D

[GJM]

Interesting -- this a 1911 specific thing, or single stack .45's generally?

I saw a video of John Hearne shooting about a 5.2 FAST with his Sig 220 at some Rangemaster event. The first week I started shooting a Sig, I shot a number of FAST with an alloy 220, and they were mid 5's, before I hardly new the slide stop from the decocker and had no clue about the DA press. You would think between the 1911 trigger and magwell options, the 1911 would be significantly easier to shoot a FAST with.

[BLR]

George - a lot of my time is my general suckiness with a gun.

Average of 10 clean runs:

1.79/0.49/3.08/0.38/0.39/0.36

How's that reload of a giant ball of suck and fail.

[GJM]

George - a lot of my time is my general suckiness with a gun.

Average of 10 clean runs:

1.79/0.49/3.08/0.38/0.39/0.36

How's that reload of a giant ball of suck and fail.

I would call that reload not a "suck" but rather an excellent opportunity to shave a second off your FAST, and something that is learned primarily by dry fire practice.

[YVK]

Interesting -- this a 1911 specific thing, or single stack .45's generally?



I think one loses up to a quarter of a second by using support hand thumb vs strong hand thumb slide drop.
My 1911s don't have magwells, so there's that. Most videos of lightning fast 1911 reloads that I've seen involved competition shooters with giant ass magwells and open carry.
I also think there is a sweet spot for magazine size in regards to reload. Too big are clumsy, too small are unforgiving to a slightly "off" grab. This is just my theory though.

[Sparks2112]

We can make fun o.....I mean, critique each other's fast drill on Saturday....

[ToddG]

The reload is definitely where a lot of people struggle in general on the FAST, and someone's optimized technique for a 1911 is still usually significantly slower than someone's optimized technique for Glocks, M&Ps, P30s, etc. Almost everyone has to shift the gun in hand significantly to reach the mag button and almost everyone needs to rely on the support hand thumb to drop the slide. That's a lot of extra movement and extra time.

The idea that a magwell by itself makes reloads simple is also a myth. Most of the guys doing uberfast reloads on YouTube are running STI/SVI guns... double stack guns with tapered magazines. No matter how big the magwell is, all it can do is "catch" a misplaced magazine and guide it into the gun. Put another way, if you're using the magwell, you've already made a mistake by missing the gun itself. It's better than not hitting anything at all (and I certainly want magwells on my 1911s). But it doesn't make reloads fast.

While my practice regimen has definitely been irregular this year, my 1911 reload tends to be half a second slower than my Glock reload when you compare averages or best-to-best. That's same mag pouches and same concealment garment apples to apples. There's obviously room for improvement but at least right now I get the sense that a 2.00 reload with this gear is going to be a difficult ceiling to break through.

[BLR]

Re-ran the FAST 10 clean times, average times as follows:

1.68/0.47/2.25/0.39/0.34/0.32

Differences:
1. Gun - EB Kobra (solid trigger, 10-8 wide rear, Novak trit/white outline front, 2 piece maxi well)
2. holster - Kirkpatric IWB SS

All concealed under a non-UnderArmor tee

I attribute the massive reload time difference to the solid trigger advantage over the 3 hole Videcki. :cool:

Oh, I also spent 20 minutes building muscle memory in order to better align the axis of the mag with the axis of the mag well. Who'd have thunk that would make a difference? :confused:

[JHC]

Re-ran the FAST 10 clean times, average times as follows:

1.68/0.47/2.25/0.39/0.34/0.32

Differences:
1. Gun - EB Kobra (solid trigger, 10-8 wide rear, Novak trit/white outline front, 2 piece maxi well)
2. holster - Kirkpatric IWB SS

All concealed under a non-UnderArmor tee

I attribute the massive reload time difference to the solid trigger advantage over the 3 hole Videcki. :cool:

Oh, I also spent 20 minutes building muscle memory in order to better align the axis of the mag with the axis of the mag well. Who'd have thunk that would make a difference? :confused:

And I second my very first comment!