FYI: m&p shield safety alert

[butler coach]

hope this is where this should go.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_791654_-1_757978_757978_image


http://youtu.be/jsQWGS-P9Pk

[ToddG]

Thanks for the link, butler coach! Posted it to my site, as well.

[Tamara]

Yup, thanks! Shared on the Facebookenings.

[VolGrad]

How do manufacturer's feel about warranty'ing or recall'ing guns that have been modified?

Specifically, if I've swapped out some internals to Apex and have stippled the frame would S&W tell me to kitten off?

I think mine is fine but just want to know just in case.

[JBP55]

Mine functioned properly 25 times and I will continue to check it on a regular basis. It will go back to S&W if it ever fails the test.

[JHC]

How do manufacturer's feel about warranty'ing or recall'ing guns that have been modified?

Specifically, if I've swapped out some internals to Apex and have stippled the frame would S&W tell me to kitten off?

I think mine is fine but just want to know just in case.

Hang on to get the details. On another forum a fellow has a spring missing from the hinged trigger so the lower part of it isn't spring loaded. It's pretty obvious if your is so afflicted. If that is what this turns out to be it should be a pretty clear Go - No Go determination.

[tmoore912]

My trigger is functioning properly according to their instructions.

Test fired case dated 2/11/2013

[KeeFus]

Mine is GTG! Tried it about 20 times. :D

[5pins]

How do manufacturer's feel about warranty'ing or recall'ing guns that have been modified?

Specifically, if I've swapped out some internals to Apex and have stippled the frame would S&W tell me to kitten off?

I think mine is fine but just want to know just in case.

They will replace all non-factory parts with factory parts.

[VolGrad]

They will replace all non-factory parts with factory parts.

That would NOT be acceptable. I know GLOCK does that when you take a gun in to check. They usually put the non-factory parts in a bag and return them with the gun.

My Shield is fine. It was one of the very first commercially released batches. I tested it last night and again today after watching the video. It's GTG.

[JonEMTP]

Now... Is the issue that the trigger safety isn't activating, meaning that a safety is disabled... Or is there a potential for jamming?

Mine is with my armorer friend getting new sights right now... Im just trying to understand the problem.


Jon

[VolGrad]

Now... Is the issue that the trigger safety isn't activating, meaning that a safety is disabled.
This.

I'd have your buddy check it while he has it.

[ST911]

How do manufacturer's feel about warranty'ing or recall'ing guns that have been modified?

Specifically, if I've swapped out some internals to Apex and have stippled the frame would S&W tell me to kitten off?

I think mine is fine but just want to know just in case.

I see yours is fine, but to answer the question: I would remove any modified internals to OEM configuration before returning the gun. External grip mods that don't impact internal parts fit aren't usually a problem.

[JV_]

IME, they will be returned with the gun.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4

[LSP972]

Good grief... what's next????? Is it just me, or has the past few years featured a tremendous increase in problems/recalls from formerly reliable makers? After buying two new Glocks that both displayed the BTF syndrome (and selling both, with full disclosure), I told myself I wasn't going to waste any money on new-production ANYTHING that didn't have HK on it. Then I became intrigued with the Shield, bought one on a whim... and now this.

I lent mine to a colleague, so I cannot check it just now. I'll have him return it next week so we can peruse it.

What I want to know is... what CAUSES this? Just because a pistol "passes the test" today, doesn't mean the issue won't manifest itself down the road.

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[Tamara]

What I want to know is... what CAUSES this?

"the trigger bar pin could damage the lower trigger"

Looks like a batch of rough or oversized pins. If your pistol passes the test and is not extremely recent production, I don't know that I'd worry about it beyond performing the basic routine function checks one should perform on any pistol they carry. Even HKs.

[JHC]

deleted redundancy

[Al T.]

deleted redundancy

Sounds like a punk rock band. :D

Thanks for posting, I'm good.

[LSP972]

"the trigger bar pin could damage the lower trigger"

Looks like a batch of rough or oversized pins. If your pistol passes the test and is not extremely recent production, I don't know that I'd worry about it beyond performing the basic routine function checks one should perform on any pistol they carry. Even HKs.

Thanks.

I know to do function checks.

Don't worry about it? Are you deliberately missing my point?

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[Tamara]

Don't worry about it? Are you deliberately missing my point?

Missing it? No. Downplaying it, maybe.

Look, upthread you wrote

Is it just me, or has the past few years featured a tremendous increase in problems/recalls from formerly reliable makers? After buying two new Glocks that both displayed the BTF syndrome...

The past few years? Glock has been having recal... er, "voluntary upgrades" pretty much from the jump-off. How about when S&W recalled ALL THEIR L-FRAME REVOLVERS back when those were still duty guns?

I think people imagine a golden past of un-screwed up guns that maybe wasn't as rosy as our minds like to recollect...

[LOKNLOD]

I think people imagine a golden past of un-screwed up guns that maybe wasn't as rosy as our minds like to recollect...

Prior to the massive growth of the internet and online firearm community of the fairly recent past, I'd imagine many of the recalls weren't even known by half the people affected.

[JHC]

The "golden past" was probably just a lot longer ago with hand fitting wheelies and 1911s by old school craftsman. OTOH I'm digging the modern designs and methods myself. They ain't done me wrong.

[LSP972]

Missing it? No. Downplaying it, maybe.

The past few years? Glock has been having recal... er, "voluntary upgrades" pretty much from the jump-off. How about when S&W recalled ALL THEIR L-FRAME REVOLVERS back when those were still duty guns?



I have no rosy illusions. I was one of the peasants at the gates of S&W with torch and pitchfork, demanding that they stop putting that execrable floating hand in L frames (which was our duty gun at the time). Thing is, the gun still worked and was RELIABLE... it just had a REAL shitty trigger pull. I am not aware of a type-wide recall... some needed to go back to have the hammer nose bushing replaced, but that only became an issue with magnum ammunition. No, I'm not defending S&W; it was a problem that needed fixing. The difference is, they were quite up-front about it, telling us exactly what the cause was and the possible consequences of not having the mod done.

Here, they tell you to do a "test". Hooray... my gun passed! Today, that is... what about two months and a thousand rounds from now? If it IS a bad pin, then why not replace them ALL to be sure? You know why.

As for those "voluntary upgrades" you mention... the key word there is "voluntary. I've got a Gen2 G19 with all its original parts still running fine... after 30K+ rounds. I bought that puppy in 1992. At an armorer school some years back, one Glock factory guy was aghast that I had not "upgraded" the striker and other parts they "suggested" be replaced. I hemmed him up about that... WHY? Were they seeing lots of failures, etc.? Of course not. What I DO know is that, from the time we first began seeing Glocks on the line (1990 in my area) up until I formally got out of the game in 2009, the few issues I saw with Glocks were almost always attributable to operator error or bad ammunition. That covers thousands of pistols and the same number of repeat 'customers'.

The current Glock woes ARE recent; beginning with the frame flex G22 problems and accelerated with the Gen 4 pistols. Sure, most of those issues have been tracked down and cured... for the most part. Maybe.

We're looking at this differently, it would seem. Fair enough.

.

[VolGrad]

The difference is, they were quite up-front about it, telling us exactly what the cause was and the possible consequences of not having the mod done.

Here, they tell you to do a "test". Hooray... my gun passed! Today, that is... what about two months and a thousand rounds from now? If it IS a bad pin, then why not replace them ALL to be sure? You know why.

I'm certainly not trying to jump into anyone else's bantar. However, I personally feel S&W is being up-front about the issue. Heck, they are offering to take back and inspect/repair guns that they are pretty sure are unaffected. In the statement/video didn't they say it was a faulty spring and what the consequence was? Isn't it a potentially disabled drop safety?

Having said that, I too would like to know if S&W thinks guns that aren't currently exhibiting the problem might later develop the same issue. Specifically, is the issue a part that was faulty to begin with and never should have passed muster vs a part that fails at some point and manifests in the problem they are now seeing. Other than that question though I feel S&W is doing the right thing and applaud them for it.

[Tamara]

I have no rosy illusions. I was one of the peasants at the gates of S&W with torch and pitchfork, demanding that they stop putting that execrable floating hand in L frames (which was our duty gun at the time). Thing is, the gun still worked and was RELIABLE... it just had a REAL shitty trigger pull. I am not aware of a type-wide recall... some needed to go back to have the hammer nose bushing replaced, but that only became an issue with magnum ammunition.

They were all supposed to get that bushing replaced and the frame stamped with an "M" to show it had been done.


Here, they tell you to do a "test". Hooray... my gun passed! Today, that is... what about two months and a thousand rounds from now? If it IS a bad pin, then why not replace them ALL to be sure? You know why.

Because it's caused by a specific lot # of a bad part?


As for those "voluntary upgrades" you mention... the key word there is "voluntary. I've got a Gen2 G19 with all its original parts still running fine... after 30K+ rounds. I bought that puppy in 1992. At an armorer school some years back, one Glock factory guy was aghast that I had not "upgraded" the striker and other parts they "suggested" be replaced. I hemmed him up about that... WHY? Were they seeing lots of failures, etc.? Of course not. What I DO know is that, from the time we first began seeing Glocks on the line (1990 in my area) up until I formally got out of the game in 2009, the few issues I saw with Glocks were almost always attributable to operator error or bad ammunition. That covers thousands of pistols and the same number of repeat 'customers'.

The current Glock woes ARE recent; beginning with the frame flex G22 problems and accelerated with the Gen 4 pistols. Sure, most of those issues have been tracked down and cured... for the most part. Maybe.

NYPD "Phase Three" malfunction saga? Early "pebble grip" G17s going full rock and roll? Frame rail failures on "E"-prefix guns because of the incorrect stamping of the part with a corner instead of a radius? If you don't remember those, you missed half the fun of Glocking in the Nineties and Aughties.

[LSP972]

I didn't watch the video, only looked at the official product "problem" notice.

But VolGrad touched on what has me annoyed; to wit, what about potential failure down the road if the pin or whatever isn't changed?

As for those other Glock issues of yore, I do recall hearing about some of them back then, now that you mention it. We didn't see any of it, so it wasn't on our radar.

I'll agree, in the grand scheme of things gun-related, this is a minor blip on the scope. But put them all together, and you gotta wonder just what the hell is going on with some of these companies... at least, I do.

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[LSP972]

Because it's caused by a specific lot # of a bad part?





If that were the case, they could easily isolate the serial range of the suspect pistols and issue a formal recall for that serial range. Methinks this is something in the design.

One thing is reasonably certain... we're likely to never know, one way or another.

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[Tamara]

If that were the case, they could easily isolate the serial range of the suspect pistols and issue a formal recall for that serial range. Methinks this is something in the design.

That doesn't appear to be supported by the phrasing of the announcement at all, though.


We believe this condition is largely limited to recently manufactured M&P Shield pistols. However, out of an abundance of caution, we are asking all consumers of all M&P Shields manufactured before August 19, 2013 to immediately inspect their pistols for this condition.

Reading between the lines, I get: "We got a bad batch of parts from Greasy Joe's Dixie Bar & Grill and Part-Time Roll Pin Fabrication Plant." Granted this is speculation on my part.

[LSP972]

That doesn't appear to be supported by the phrasing of the announcement at all, though.


Exactly; THAT is my point. I'll wager its a design or fabrication issue. And they damn sure aren't gonna admit to that.

If it was a bad part from a sub-contractor, they could easily determine what range of guns to look at.

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[LSP972]

Got mine back today from my pal. It "passed the test".

Outstanding. Now I can take it to the gun show with a clear conscious.

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