$300 pistol budget

[SecondsCount]

I have a friend that is looking at pistols. This would be his first handgun and he is not a serious shooter, maybe someday but I doubt it. We went to the gunshop and he handled most of the guns in the case then we hit the range and he shot a 1911, M&P, P226, and a S&W 586.

Tonight he texted me and said his budget is $300 bucks and is looking at Taurus, Keltec, and Ruger. I am trying to talk him into something better but he seems set on spending that amount. How do you think the S&W SD9 would work for him? Buds has them for $367 with free shipping and so I thought I might be able to get him to "upgrade" to that if it is a good pistol.

I wish I could find him a used G19 but they get snapped up pretty quick at $350 and he probably won't want to spend more on a used gun unless it was excellent.

Thoughts?

[Kyle Reese]

If possible, see if he can hold out for a used / LE trade in Glock 17. That would be the best bet, IMHO.

AIM Surplus has em frequently, and if he can perhaps pony up $400 for a weapon, a Glock 17 will likely serve him well, with a minimum of fuss & drama (compared to a Taurus, etc).

[JM Campbell]

Tuff call for you, but if it was my friend I'd help him out with the extra scratch and have him pay me back when he could.

[vecdran]

+1 on the used Glock.

[Josh Runkle]

Tuff call for you, but if it was my friend I'd help him out with the extra scratch and have him pay me back when he could.

ditto.

[Joe in PNG]

Rule of thumb- you do not save money by buying a cheap starter item. Once your skill level grows, you will find that your pistol (or bass, or whatever) is insufficient for your needs. And you're now short the $$$ you paid on the starter item.

So, your friend spends $350... and he will find out that the SD-9 is a bad choice. What now? That's $350 he doesn't have to go toward a better gun- and even if he sold the S&W, he won't see near that much money back.

I think a good many of us here have wasted thousands on cheap POS guns- heck, I could buy a P-30 if I could only get that wasted money back.

[WDW]

Tell him to save his money and get something decent. There is no such thing as a "starter gun". he would just be waisting his $$$. Have him save up and get a used Glock. They are $400 all day every day just about.

[MD7305]

I had a buddy recently go through this very same thing. I suggested a used Glock, second generation guns can be found around here in the $350 range, and that's a solid choice. There's always layaway too.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

For that money, I'd want a Ruger SP101.

However, that would imply someone would be willing to drill trigger press & reloading as if your life depended upon it.

[Bratch]

I've been getting emails for trade in Glock 22s for less than $300 the past month or so can't remember where though, G&T Dist maybe...

[Jason]

Another issue is the gun is only a start. What about ammo, holster, belt, magazines, range fees, and then class fees?

[NGCSUGrad09]

Buy once, cry once.

Words to live by with firearms purchases.

[SteveK]

Have him check gunbroker for a used Smith and Wesson 5904. An excellent gun well within his price range.

[Rappahannock]

Buy once, cry once.

Words to live by with firearms purchases.

That may very well be, but I would rather see a friend with a serviceable gun right now than saving for who knows how long for some Teutonic beauty he read about on the Internet.

Ruger products, although seldom held up as a paragon of style or professionalism, generally perform and perform well and can be had reasonably. There are several other good suggestions here, most with the caveat of "it just needs a little more money."

I like the idea of lending the pistolless friend the difference. The main thing, though, would be get him in something dependable soon and start him to practicing with it.

[Jay Cunningham]

Tell him to save up $200 more - it won't take that long.

[JV_]

Tell him to save up $200 more - it won't take that long.

+1

I'm not keen on lending money that you expect/need to get back.

[NGCSUGrad09]

That may very well be, but I would rather see a friend with a serviceable gun right now than saving for who knows how long for some Teutonic beauty he read about on the Internet.

Ruger products, although seldom held up as a paragon of style or professionalism, generally perform and perform well and can be had reasonably. There are several other good suggestions here, most with the caveat of "it just needs a little more money."

I like the idea of lending the pistolless friend the difference. The main thing, though, would be get him in something dependable soon and start him to practicing with it.

I'm in the save a $100 bucks more and get a used Glock camp. I'm hardly one to spend a chunk of change chasing a Teutonic beauty.. but with a $100 bucks comes a large jump from ok "entry" level pistol to a top performing gun.

[Kyle Reese]

If he's really hard up, Summit Gunbroker lists Glock 22 Gen 2's in stock for $325.

[SecondsCount]

Thanks guys for the suggestions so far.

Is the SD9 a piece of crap?

I don't see myself recommending a G22. It is a 40 caliber and I personally can't stand shooting a Glock in 40.

This is a guy that does not think like the rest of us. He feels that he can get a perfectly good gun for $300 and even though I have tried to explain the differences, he is not willing to spend more, even if I lent him the cash. I will keep working on him but I am worried that he will go out and buy junk on a whim before listening to me so I am trying to stay close to his budget.

[Dropkick]

Does he want to be a pistol owner, or a pistol shooter?

[Kyle Reese]

Thanks guys for the suggestions so far.

Is the SD9 a piece of crap?

I don't see myself recommending a G22. It is a 40 caliber and I personally can't stand shooting a Glock in 40.

This is a guy that does not think like the rest of us. He feels that he can get a perfectly good gun for $300 and even though I have tried to explain the differences, he is not willing to spend more, even if I lent him the cash. I will keep working on him but I am worried that he will go out and buy junk on a whim before listening to me so I am trying to stay close to his budget.

I don't think there's enough raw data out there in regards to the SD 9 at this point. As a friend, you can only make suggestions. In the end, it's up to the guy buying the gun to be happy with his purchase.

Just don't be surprised if you get a phone call saying "oh man I wish I had listened to you 6 months ago."


If he's set on the SD 9, well, I guess he can T&E it for the rest of us. :cool:

[YVK]

Makarov. I am only half-joking.

If I knew what's price for 9x18 ammo was, I could've been only 1/4 joking.

[JV_]

If I knew what's price for 9x18 ammo was, I could've been only 1/4 joking.About $230 / case.

[Kyle Reese]

Mak's aren't the value they were a decade ago. I've seen East German and Soviet examples go for well over $400, and ammunition is just as expensive as 9x19.

Oh, the happy days of 2000 / 2001 plinking away with my $79 East German Mak and dirt cheap surplus East German ammo...... :cool:

[JonInWA]

A factory refurbished Glock is an excellent bet; alternatively, a used Glock can be gone through thorougly by the Glock Armorer at a GSSF match at no charge, with parts replaced/upgraded as needed (also at no charge).

Some other alternatives that come to mind: In 9 mm: a used Ruger P89 (if he ships the gun to Ruger, they'll thoroughly go through it, reparing/replacing components as needed, at no or very little charge normally);

A CZ 82 or 83, in either .380 or 9mm MAK-these guns are extremely well made, and are all steel; the 9mm MAK version (usually labelled CZ82, with a plainer finish) have a polygonal barrel; they're accurate and unlike many other similar pistols in this niche actually have usuable sights; triggerpulls tend to be excellent

In a revolver, it's hard to go wrong with a used Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six revolver.

Best, Jon

[TGS]

I guess I could tell you to lend him money, or convince him to spend more(which you already have tried doing) but that really wouldn't answer your question, so....

I think you can still find SIG P6's out there for $350 or less, though I might be wrong. As mentioned the old S&W 3rd gen pistols might be a good choice, I know a shop in Va that sells them for $309 used.

Another gun to look into would be the Astra copies of SIG's. I really don't have any experience or knowledge on their quality/reliability, but they're cheap as hell so it's something to look into.

Now if you're talking $300 max, no going over, then for auto's I would look into the Ruger LCP, S&W Sigma, Ruger P89 or KelTec PF9/P11. The Sigma is not a nice gun to shoot. I've shot a few hundred rounds from my buddies' Sigma .40 and the trigger felt like it was 16lbs or something ungodly heavy. Way heavier than my J-frame. It sort of reminded me of a VP70. However, it was also very gritty and had a pretty good slap to it. For under $300, I think a Sigma is the best option for an auto. The Ruger P89 has a reputation of being very heavily built, though that's all I've ever heard.......

The PF9 has a much better trigger than the P11. They're not the nicest guns, but my PF9 with the chrome slide was actually of decent build quality for it's purpose as a low-round count gun and was generally reliable. That may fit his bill as well.....they're built specifically for that market. However if he was willing to go $50 more expensive for the Sigma or S&W 3rd gens, that'd be a much, much better route. One of the perks to Kel Tec's is that if you do have problems with the gun their post-sale CS is outstanding. Unlike what a lot of people perceive, KelTec's are not a saturday night special junk gun. Although they're not designed to run more than a few thousands rounds and aren't the epitome of quality, they're quite good for their purpose and price range. They're certainly not in the likes of Lorcin, Jennings, Hi Point, Raven, Jimenez, RG Industries, ect.

I would stay away from anything Taurus unless you can verify how reliable it is. They're a decent pistol for the price if they work and their designs aren't faulted, however their QC is terrible and there's a 50/50 chance you're getting a lemon. To boot, their CS is abysmal. So I think the best thing you can do as a friend is not let him buy a Taurus unless you can verify the reliability of the exact gun he's purchasing.

My #1 suggestion for something that is under $300 would be the plethora of old S&W and Ruger revolvers that are available in serviceable condition from $200-$280. It might not have the capacity of a Sigma or look as pretty and new, however the trigger will be much better, parts probably won't break as much and the reliability will beat a Sigma......plus, when he shoots it, he'll be more apt to take aim and hit something rather than just blast away as fast as possible. And when he does blast away......wow, that's a whole 6 rounds, not half a box.....

[jslaker]

Re: revolver suggestions - isn't .38 SPC ammo about twice the cost of 9x19?

[TGS]

Re: revolver suggestions - isn't .38 SPC ammo about twice the cost of 9x19?

It's about $16 per 50 where I live. So a couple bucks more, but I don't think we're talking about someone that's going to be shooting hordes of it and actually see the cost savings. There's really no difference in premium quality SD ammo.

[TGS]

Here's some links to some of the surplus pistols mentioned by others. I don't have any experience or knowledge of them, so don't think that I'm recommending them or not. Just posting some examples I found that you may want to look into further:

Polish P64, less than $200:
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/handguns/polish/p/polish-p64-9x18-military-pistols%2C-blued%2C-vg-condition-pre-order-now-/cPath/16_385/products_id/5863?osCsid=704c1f8dda8d191451f0ad00f88ba99d

Makrov, $220:
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/handguns/makarov/p/bulgarian-makarov-9x18%2C-w-holster-very-good-condition/cPath/16_151/products_id/4118?osCsid=704c1f8dda8d191451f0ad00f88ba99d

CZ 82's, $200-$240:
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/handguns/cz-surplus/cPath/16_155?osCsid=704c1f8dda8d191451f0ad00f88ba99d

[jslaker]

It's about $16 per 50 where I live. So a couple bucks more, but I don't think we're talking about someone that's going to be shooting hordes of it and actually see the cost savings. There's really no difference in premium quality SD ammo.

9mm is around $10.50-11.00 here for cheap range stuff. You can look at it as "only a couple bucks more", but I look at that as 50-60% more. (while double was admittedly exaggerated now that I'm looking at actual numbers).

Sure, he's not going to be shooting massive amounts of ammo, but if he's so strapped for cash that his gun budget is like it is, I'd think that it's worth considering long-term cost, as well. Having been there, I know that every penny counts sometimes.

[TGS]

9mm is around $10.50-11.00 here for cheap range stuff. You can look at it as "only a couple bucks more", but I look at that as 50-60% more. (while double was admittedly exaggerated now that I'm looking at actual numbers).

Sure, he's not going to be shooting massive amounts of ammo, but if he's so strapped for cash that his gun budget is like it is, I'd think that it's worth considering long-term cost, as well. Having been there, I know that every penny counts sometimes.

I'm not going to get into an argument of cost savings on a $220 Ruger .38 and $16/50 ammo costs vs a $285 Sigma at $10.50/50.

[Pistol Shooter]

I don't think there's enough raw data out there in regards to the SD 9 at this point. As a friend, you can only make suggestions. In the end, it's up to the guy buying the gun to be happy with his purchase.

Just don't be surprised if you get a phone call saying "oh man I wish I had listened to you 6 months ago."


If he's set on the SD 9, well, I guess he can T&E it for the rest of us. :cool:

:D

One thing about the SD 9 is that S&W has excellent customer service, if it's needed.

[JohnN]

Unfortunately, if he won't spend the money to get a decent gun he probably won't spend the money on ammo to learn how to use it properly.

[Pennzoil]

What about maybe getting a 22 caliber pistol if money is tight so he can get a lot of practice in while working on the basics & building confidence. He may get a better idea on what he would like later on in a center fire pistol and save some cash in the log run not switching later on.

In hind sight when I started out I wish I would of did this myself even though cash wasn't an issue for me.

[SecondsCount]

Update-

I should have mentioned before that money is not necessarily an issue for this guy, he could come up with more if he needed but for some reason $300 is the limit that he set. He just seems to be like most middle class people that can spend $1,200 on a flat screen TV (a recent purchase of his) but when it comes to guns they can't understand why they should spend the cash for quality.

He must have been speaking to some other knowledgeable people because when I talked to him yesterday he is no longer interested in Kel-Tec or Taurus. I met him at the gunshop last night and when I got there they were showing him the Walther PPS. He liked it until he saw the price.

I asked them to show the differences between the Sigma, SD9, and a standard M&P9. We put them all out on the counter and he handled each one as well as a Walther P99 compact- this place seems to be pushing Walther for some reason. He commented on how much better each one felt as the price went up.

We left the shop without making a purchase and I recommended that we spend some more time shooting and even renting guns to see which one he would like. He thought that was a good idea so hopefully I have put enough questions in his mind that he will take a little time to figure out what is best.

Thanks again for all the input.

[SteveK]

I'll again make a pitch for the Smith & Wesson 5904/5906 series. These are excellent guns and can be found on the used market in your friend's price range. They are reliable with a good DA/SA trigger, magazines are readily available and holsters are everywhere due to their popularity when they first were introduced. Smith's trigger reset is second to none and they are the best choice for mastering the DA/SA genre. If I could only have 1 gun, the 5904 would get serious consideration.

[Joe in PNG]

Update-

...We left the shop without making a purchase and I recommended that we spend some more time shooting and even renting guns to see which one he would like. He thought that was a good idea so hopefully I have put enough questions in his mind that he will take a little time to figure out what is best.

Thanks again for all the input.

It's amazing how a simple $20 rental can wind up saving you hundreds of dollars.

[MDS]

It's amazing how a simple $20 rental can wind up saving you hundreds of dollars.

I'll second that! I actually rented Glocks, P30s, MP9s, and a couple of others about three times each before settling on Glocks for myself. For about $100 I got a pretty good experience of how each one works for me - much less expensive than buying one of each!

[jslaker]

It's amazing how a simple $20 rental can wind up saving you hundreds of dollars.

Conversely, as of tonight, a simple $20 rental is going to cost me around $550 after tax come my next paycheck, and that's before we start talking holster, sights, mags, and lots of ammo to break it in. ;)

The rental is a fickle mistress.

[Joe in PNG]

Conversely, as of tonight, a simple $20 rental is going to cost me around $550 after tax come my next paycheck, and that's before we start talking holster, sights, mags, and lots of ammo to break it in. ;)

The rental is a fickle mistress.

Indeed.

[NGA Gunsmith]

The question I ask many people when they are on a "budget" is:
#1 What is the gun going to be used for?

#2 If it's for personal defense, how much is your life worth?

If the gun is going to be used specifically for plinking/range, the Ruger P85/P89 series guns can still be found for a bargain. Just found one on gunbroker, buy it now for $275. They aren't the most refined guns and they are a little clunky but they do shoot (and much more reliable than the budget guns might I add). If your friend is not willing to consider what you are suggesting to him, you have done all you can to help. Some people insist on learning things the hard way. Good luck.