Slight, Athletic Build - G17 - Pancake Holsters?

[dustyvarmint]

If there are any other threads related to this please let me know so I can check them out. My search was not succesful.

I'm 5'6", 144 lbs, 30"-minus waist, moderate distance runner and regular weight lifter (not body builder). I'd like to carry my G17 more, but I'm a little too thin to carry that off. Currently I carry an XDm 3.8 in a Blade-Tech Nano IWB that I'm very, very satisfied with and it works, but I put a lot more rounds through the G17 than the XDm. I've put the G17 in the XDm Blade-Tech Nano IWB and I just can't carry that off.

I'm wondering if a pancake or pancake style holster might work a little better as it may hold the pistol grip slightly higher (closer to my chest) where I'm a little wider? I'd probably use the holster for IDPA, also.

Currently I'm looking at the Blade-Tech Eclipse OWB and the Personal Security Systems "Standard" with standard sweat guard (not cut down) which is very similar to the Raven Concealment.

Any feedback or opinions? I simply lack the experience that I see on this forum...

http://shop.blade-tech.com/images/resized/X0010-1-Eclipse%20Front.png-300x350.png

http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/1492031/51293686.jpg

happy shooting, dv

[jon volk]

We sound to be nearly the same build. I carry a G17 almost exclusively. A good AIWB holster with a "wedge" is really what's needed to conceal a fullsize.

Here's a post With some pics for reference.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?6536-Difference-in-Full-Size-and-Compact-handguns&p=110014&viewfull=1#post110014

[VolGrad]

You sound like me 25-30 pounds ago ... and without the running. :cool:

I find it hard to pull off a G17 concealed due to the longer grip. I can pull off a G19 without issue. Something you mentioned stuck out to me. You mentioned using the same holster for concealment and for IDPA. Your concealment concern was pulling the grip in toward your body (understandable). This might make it a bit more difficult for use with IDPA. Some will argue you need to shoot IDPA exactly like you carry but I personally don't fall into that camp. It's a game, play it. I don't think Caleb and some of the other "name" competitive shooters we discuss here on the forum use their carry gear for the game so ....

Anyway, I have a few favorite OWB holsters ...
Dark Star Gear with soft loops
FIN Designs belt/paddle scabbard
Talon Tactical A10 model
Peters Custom
PerSec Systems

For IWB I like ...
Dark Star Gear AIWB
Crossbreed Supertuck Deluxe
Comp-Tac CTAC
PerSec Systems

[walkin' trails]

I'm basically a little taller than you and still relatively slender considering I don't run anymore, but have used a pancake for a G22 and an M&P 45 with good concealment results as long as I dress around the gun. I have used a Galco, a High Noon, and currently a Milt Sparks for the M&P. I think that leather still conceals better than Kydex. My favorite concealment holster for a big pistol is the Milt Sparks Summer Special II. I use it to conceal the M&P 45 full size, and have seen other conceal G17/22s very effectively.

[Up1911Fan]

I like JM Custom for both an OWB as well as for my AIWB holsters. They conceal great on me and we have similar builds.

[Nephrology]

I'm 5' 10 and ~160-165, so also on the slim side. I like my Dale Fricke archangel - in any case, a kydex-sheath type AIWB like the JM or the Archangel are they way to go, IMO. Dressing around the gun helps a lot. For what it's worth, I find a G19 carries much better for me than a 17 in the same position. My waist is a ~30-32 depending on the pants.

[Steve S.]

This thread talks about my company directly, so I'll throw in my two cents.

If you're looking for a do-all single holster, it's hard to beat the modular pancake design because of the support accessories. It sounds like your concern is EDC and IDPA.

If you're still considering my company, I'd order the Standard holster but add the OWB Offset Pancake Loops (discounted with holster). Use the pancake loops for OWB EDC. Then when you shoot IDPA switch back to the Standard Loops that are included. These provide a little bit more standoff room to acquire a grip quickly at the slight sacrifice of concealment. If in the future you find you want the holster to ride lower for IDPA, add the OWB LowPro Loops so you can drop the holster even lower on the belt line - again at the sacrifice of concealment.

A neutral cant may be beneficial for IDPA, again at the sacrifice of concealment (for most people / carry positions).

Add in a set of IWB Soft Loops or Polymer Overhooks for the ability to go IWB for deeper concealment, and you can now fill a lot of roles with a single holster.

I just recently shot an IDPA qualifier, and I never found my draw to be part of the problem. Generally the draw isn't a huge factor on your times in IDPA, because of the way the courses of fire are designed. Some you won't even be drawing for.

So my advice is put your EDC goals higher than your IDPA goals if you want one holster to fill both roles. Buy from whatever company you want - but my advise is look at the modularity options for EDC when picking.

I also want to point out that I wouldn't compromise my opinion to make a quick sale. I whole heartedly agree with the above based on my experiences.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/28/6abe7a3u.jpg

For reference - left to right...

1. OWB Offset Polymer Pancake Loops - Coyote 2. IWB Tuckable Polymer Overhooks - Black 3. IWB Soft Loops - Coyote 4. OWB Polymer LowPro Loops - Coyote.

Happy hunting!

ETA: We have a coupon code available as "PistolForum" - if you weren't aware of it.

[Steve S.]

Here's a good video about improving the draw stroke. Sub 1 second from a concealment holster isn't bad. I'd talked with Mr. Avery a week or two before that video was shot, and he is a phenomenal teacher in all things "going fast" when shooting. It's more often the Indian than the Arrow is the problem in my personal shooting experience when trying to achieve consistently good draw times.

Volgrad did hit it on the head about playing the game. In my opinion, don't buy into the "bad habits of IDPA / Gun Games" theory too much. The competitive part aside, I think "gun games" (as they are often derogatorily referred to) are great practice opportunities.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSlCyc-SQQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBMSlCyc-SQQ

[dustyvarmint]

Here's a good video about improving the draw stroke. Sub 1 second from a concealment holster isn't bad. I'd talked with Mr. Avery a week or two before that video was shot, and he is a phenomenal teacher in all things "going fast" when shooting. It's more often the Indian than the Arrow is the problem in my personal shooting experience when trying to achieve consistently good draw times.

Volgrad did hit it on the head about playing the game. In my opinion, don't buy into the "bad habits of IDPA / Gun Games" theory too much. The competitive part aside, I think "gun games" (as they are often derogatorily referred to) are great practice opportunities.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSlCyc-SQQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBMSlCyc-SQQ

That is probably the third time I've watched that video and I finally understood about 75% of it. Another 10 times and I might get the whole thing. :o

Good illustration of the holster in use. Are the holsters with the weapon light accomodation wider than the standard holster?

happy shooting, dv

[Steve S.]

Avery is the man. He swears a lot more when the camera is off, which adds to the charisma. Some people can really make foul language sound cool instead of ignorant.

It's slightly wider. Maybe a 1/2". Nothing significant. The light channel does print more, and you won't be able to run a weapon light for IDPA either.

Really the width of the holster is irrelevant, unless you're cross eye dominant and run long gun mags on the belt. Then it can get crowded. Otherwise it's the support side that generally runs out of room. And neither side is really an issue for CCW or IDPA since both don't require long gun mags.

[dustyvarmint]

Avery is the man. He swears a lot more when the camera is off, which adds to the charisma. Some people can really make foul language sound cool instead of ignorant.

It's slightly wider. Maybe a 1/2". Nothing significant. The light channel does print more, and you won't be able to run a weapon light for IDPA either.

Really the width of the holster is irrelevant, unless you're cross eye dominant and run long gun mags on the belt. Then it can get crowded. Otherwise it's the support side that generally runs out of room. And neither side is really an issue for CCW or IDPA since both don't require long gun mags.

You're telling me I don't need to carry two or even three 30 round AR mags for CCW? WTHeck?! :)

Here is where I was going with the width - in watching the video Corey's holster seems really wide and that gives me some cause for concern because of my body depth which is very shallow. Being so wide would make it harder to conceal, I'm thinking. Now, that just may be perspective. I'm going to guess that he is using the polymer low pro loops and that is adding to the perspective?

I ran into a guy, Jon Landvatter of Armed Citizen Training, at an IDPA match two weeks ago using one of your non-light versions and it didn't seem so wide in person. I don't remember what pistol, but it would have been an IDPA SSP division item. This is how I found out about PerSecSystems.

I'm strongly considering one of your holsters and wouldn't waste your continued time here if I wasn't -and- you seemed happy to engage...

happy shooting

[Steve S.]

You'd be surprised. We do have some customers who EDC a couple carbine mags on the belt. Granted, it's mostly those in the sandbox. There's an old thread on M4C from a customer in Afghanistan who EDCs two AR mags, two pistol mags, 1-2 frags, IFAK, tourney, light, multitool, and a G17 / X300 on the belt - all concealed under a jacket or button up shirt with plates / plate carrier to boot. It's more than a couple years old, so most of the gear pics are pretty dated.

There's also a video on REFactorTactical's website (gear is also a bit dated and older) that breaks down a similar EDC load out we made for the customer's use in Special Operations. So it's possible. (Second video is the EDC video).

http://www.refactortactical.com/product-p/marz-tactical-chest-rig.htm

The wider a holster, the better it conceals. The further apart the belt attachment points, the lighter it feels. It's easy to hit a point of diminishing returns though, and the wider / flatter a pancake Kydex holster is, the more uncomfortable it becomes at a certain point. It's all about finding the right balance.

We didn't make the holster in the video - I'm not sure who did. It does appear wider than what we make for weapon light enabled holsters though.

Tell Jon I appreciate the referral. I know every company says this, but PerSec really does have an amazing customer base. I'm always amazed at how nearly all of our business is from customer referrals or return customers.

I love talking weapons, and even more Kydex. Do you know how hard it is to find someone in the world who wants to talk holster width and Kydex grades with? By all means - ask as many questions as you'd like. Honestly, I wish i had more time to spend on the forums. I love talking to customers and other weapon / training enthusiasts in general. Just been extremely busy as of late, so haven't been around as much to spend a lot of time talking on forums the past year. Wish someone would invent a way to be two places at once - I think we all could use that product. Lol.

If the discussion gets very company specific - we may have to go to PM out of respect to the forum. If it stays about holsters in general then I think it adds some educational value to discuss it publicly.

[Rich]

If there are any other threads related to this please let me know so I can check them out. My search was not succesful.

I'm 5'6", 144 lbs, 30"-minus waist, moderate distance runner and regular weight lifter (not body builder). I'd like to carry my G17 more, but I'm a little too thin to carry that off. Currently I carry an XDm 3.8 in a Blade-Tech Nano IWB that I'm very, very satisfied with and it works, but I put a lot more rounds through the G17 than the XDm. I've put the G17 in the XDm Blade-Tech Nano IWB and I just can't carry that off.

I'm wondering if a pancake or pancake style holster might work a little better as it may hold the pistol grip slightly higher (closer to my chest) where I'm a little wider? I'd probably use the holster for IDPA, also.

Currently I'm looking at the Blade-Tech Eclipse OWB and the Personal Security Systems "Standard" with standard sweat guard (not cut down) which is very similar to the Raven Concealment.

Any feedback or opinions? I simply lack the experience that I see on this forum...

http://shop.blade-tech.com/images/resized/X0010-1-Eclipse%20Front.png-300x350.png

http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/1492031/51293686.jpg

happy shooting, dv

I,ve been looking at the Raven Phantom and Eclipse for IWB but with a light mounted.
Both holsters look well made.

Its hard to tell for sure how it will fit . The only way I know is to buy and try.



Before buying the HK P30 I was looking at buying a G17 and having the grip cut down to a G19 size.

BTW
I use to carry a Colt 1911 under a t shirt using a pancake holster when I was wearing 30`S ! So you might be on the right track.
I just don't know about the double stack grip of G17

[dustyvarmint]

Before buying the HK P30 I was looking at buying a G17 and having the grip cut down to a G19 size.

Yes, I saw a thread on that. My goal is to shoot nearly box stock equipment and I was satisfied until I saw that thread. Bad influence, definitely a bad influence. :)

happy shooting, dv