Any AUG fans?

[Shipwreck]

I sold one of my two PS90s a few months back and picked up this new Steyr A3 AUG. I wanted a 5.56 rifle again. I really like the balance of the weapon, and I've wanted a real Steyr since the 1980s. I bought an MSAR AUG (copy) a few years back, but sold it after about a year. Glad to have the real deal this time :)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/AUG2000_zpsce58462f.jpg~original

[LHS]

A friend of mine has a pre-89 AUG and loves it. I'm not a fan of bullpups in general, but for his particular needs, it works, and he's trained with it enough to minimize some of the inherent drawbacks.

[GJM]

In the early to mid 90's, where the alternatives were a Mini-14 or an iron sighted AR, shooting the the AUG was almost cheating by comparison, and to get an E ticket in carbine at Gunsite, you pretty much needed to run an AUG. I shot an AUG in the first 3 Gun Nationals I attended, and "impressively" won my class with it. Unfortunately, that was C class at that time.

Given what the AR platform has developed into, it is hard to make a great argument for the AUG or an AR, beyond its collector/niche/short length appeal. I had some, which I owned since the 90's, and took advantage of the year end panic buying period to send them down the road at very high prices.

[Shipwreck]

Well, I've always been more of a handgun guy. Not a big rifle guy. But, AR's just have never done it for me. I've come so close to buying one many times - and I have shot many. I do like bullpups better.

[GJM]

Given what the AR platform has developed into, it is hard to make a great argument for the AUG or an AR, beyond its collector/niche/short length appeal.

should be for the "AUG over an AR." Darn happy fingers.

If you don't like an AR, the AUG is certainly well made, accurate and handy.

[Haraise]

Considered a Tavor? To me it rights a lot of what the Aug got wrong ergonomically.

The trigger might be fine... If you're used to Glocks.

For me that needs work.

[DocGKR]

Nyeti is a big AUG guy and has used them on duty.

[Tamara]

I do like bullpups better.

Any particular reason?

[Suvorov]

Back in the early 90s I wanted a green one sooo bad, but the going price on them post-crime bill was far too much for a college student so I passed.

With all that has been learned about the AR platform, I see them as gun curiosities. Obviously it has done better than any other bullpup design prior to the Tavor and the Ausies seem happy with theirs and have put a certain amount of use behind them.

One thing that I wondered about is that with the AUG being the issued rifle of the CBP for a number of years, how much effort was placed on really learning to fight with it? I imagine that someone with an AUG could really learn a lot taking a class from Redback One. If I owned one, taking a class from Jason Falla would be top of my list.

As the granola curtain of Kalifornia looms to close off the ability to purchase semi-auto rifles, I keep thinking of picking up an AUG or even FS2000 (not much chance of getting a Tavor in Kali at a price that will prevent the wife from using it on me), but to me the AR rifles will do the job for me and an AUG would just be an unneeded expenditure.

But the are sexy and alluring.

[JDM]

I had an MSAR STG which I enjoyed. I didn't shoot more than 1000 rounds from it, but it was reliable and accurate and I enjoined learning the manual of arms.

I used it to shoot many, many jackrabbits while tooling around in the deserts of southern NM. Its short OAL made it awesome for ambushing spooked rabbits from a truck, and the 42 round magazines were cool too.

I sold it to a buddy who wanted it more than I did.

If I was to do it over, I'd SBR an AR instead of buying an AUG or similar.

[Coyotesfan97]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c310/coyotesfan97/74e45dfc.jpg

My AUG vs my issued Colt Commando. The AUG has a 20" barrel. The Colt's is 11.5".

I never carried an AUG on duty but there were four issued to guys I worked with on SWAT. They were wicked fast with them. They ran and ran and ran. Ultimately they were all retired when getting spare parts became an issue. They fired tens of thousands rounds through the AUGs and they just kept working.

I always envied them around cleaning time back when I was carrying an HK53. The 53 was always filthy and the AUGs were relatively clean.

I bought mine back in 95-96. I've kept it as its a fun rifle to shoot. There's no shooting off the support side as the brass ejects onto your cheek. I picked up a reloading trick from the guys that carried them. Grab a guilty mag, use it to press the mag release and then insert the full mag. I've used mine to hunt prairie dogs and it did pretty well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SecondsCount]

Welcome aboard shipwreck. Do you still have that awesome 9mm Springfield Professional?

The AUG is a cool gun but I only have limited experience shooting one.

[rob_s]

As a child of the '80s I always wanted one thanks to shows like Miami Vice where they showed up and seemed exotic.

As an adult in the '10s I see no point other than curiosity and collecting, or some desire to be intentionally anachronistic, none of which I'm willing to choose over other things I'd rather spend the money on. I've watched one or two people run them efficientlynand still get smoked by someone of equal experience on an AR or even AK, and I've watched far more people fumble-f@ck with them to the point of unintentional comedy.

[Shipwreck]

Any particular reason?

Just my preference.

My PS90 is still my favorite carbine of all time. I sold my second one to go back to the 5.56 platform (the money helped me buy this Steyr). But, I like the ergonomics and balance of the bullpups.




Considered a Tavor? To me it rights a lot of what the Aug got wrong ergonomically.

The trigger might be fine... If you're used to Glocks.

For me that needs work.

I actually had plans to buy the Tavor. But, as I did almost 7 years ago when I got my first PS90... I wanted to try one before I dropped that much coin down. I did manage to find someone with a Tavor locally, and I got to put a few rounds thru it.

It was okay, but I previously owned a MSAR AUG a few years back. I kinda liked the balance of that more. I wanted a gun with a forward grip, and the Tavor doesn't really lend itself to that well. You can install one, but I don't feel like the balance of the gun works well with it.

Anyway,I gave the tavor a chance, and was all set to go that route. But, I found I wanted the AUG more.

I actually had plans to buy the upcoming beretta ARX. But once they added that finger groove back to the grip (it wasn't on pre-production models), I lost interest. I've played with the 22 version of the ARX, and I don't care for it much. And, I hate that A2 style grip with the finger groove... And, the Beretta's grip is not replaceable.

[Shipwreck]

As stated above, the AUG is known for reliability. Several people on another forum have many - they claim to never see one go down with a parts breakage before.

Anyway, I am more of a handgun guy. After a few initial trips with a new rifle, I go once every 12-18 months to shoot it after that. My indoor range is much closer and is air conditioned. It was 105f outside here last week!



Welcome aboard shipwreck. Do you still have that awesome 9mm Springfield Professional?

The AUG is a cool gun but I only have limited experience shooting one.

No, I did eventually sell that. After years of nonstop gun buying, I am trying to slow down on new guns and start collecting vacations :)

I used the money to go to Turks and Caicos last December. Fantastic trip... Going again later this year with some more money I have from selling a few guns...

Still having mixed results on not buying new guns, however... Hahaha

But lately, I basically sell one and make an even swop... No incase in numbers...

[Odin Bravo One]

Still not the gun police, or dictator (except within my scope of responsibility) of who should carry what.........

But I have seen enough guns blow up to know that I don't want that chamber next to my face when it happens. Yeah, the XYZ may be flawless throughout the 25 rounds it was fired, or even 25,000, or 250,000. I don't care how many are in circulation and have some sort of "proven" track record. The number is irrelevant.

It isn't the "probability" of it happening that bothers me with bullpup designs. It's the severity of the outcome.

Watched a young Brit Marine eat his SA-80 after a kaboom. Eye pro may as well have been optional for him.

[Chuck Haggard]

^This^


I have seen enough rifles and machine guns go high order to never want my face close to where the explody stuff comes out.

[BLR]

Love the way the MSAR looks.

Just couldn't find one with the accuracy needed to make me happy.

[Ed L]

As an adult in the '10s I see no point other than curiosity and collecting, or some desire to be intentionally anachronistic, none of which I'm willing to choose over other things I'd rather spend the money on. I've watched one or two people run them efficientlynand still get smoked by someone of equal experience on an AR or even AK, and I've watched far more people fumble-f@ck with them to the point of unintentional comedy.

And I'm sure that you've never had people with ARs show up that didn't know what they were doing . . .:p

More on AUG specific manipulations in a later post.

For length comparison, below is a picture of the American Sabre made AUGA3 on the left, my Steyr AUGa2 in the middle, and My 6920 with an 10.3" HK416 upper on the end. Both AUGs have 16" barrels.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/comparisonofAUGA3SAAUGA2ARwith103inchbarrelwithsto ckcollapsedforsizereference.jpg

The AUG has a center of gravity that is further back than the AR, so it doesn't feel as heavy. It also seems less tiring to use than an AR of a silimar weight.

Sabre was manufacturing an AUG A3, but went out of business for unrelated reasons. Now they are built from a combination of US and Austrian parts, including a receiver by Veltor and are quality guns. I returned the Sabre AUG that I had for a SWAT article since I already had the Austrian made AUG. That article appeared in the January 2010 issue of SWAT. The American made AUG that I fired was problem free over the 1000+ rounds that I fired through it.

The newer American made AUGS are quality guns. I prefer their flash hider to the muzzlebreak used on the older Sabre made guns. In my experience that muzzlebreak had a tendency to redirect gas into the user's face.

The MSAR made AUGs had mixed QC problems. My friend has one that runs well, but the one I was sent for an article would not go 10 rounds without a feeding problem and had to be sent back to the factory. I reported this in a different SWAT article and managed to win the ire of MSAR fans.

The new AUGs made by Sabre and Veltor seem to have good triggers. The older Austrian made ones don't so I set them up with http://www.triggertamer.com/

Both the Sabre made AUG I tested and my Austrian variant were capable of shooting 5 shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards.

[Kyle Reese]

Love the way the MSAR looks.

Just couldn't find one with the accuracy needed to make me happy.

I traded mine for a nicely set up Colt 6920 and haven't looked back for a second.I'll admit, I was on the bullpup bandwagon a few year ago. I've owned an MSAR and an FS 2000. They look cool, but for me it ends there.

Neither one of these platforms do anything (for me) that an AR doesn't.

[Tamara]

And I'm sure that you've never had people with ARs show up that didn't know what they were doing . . .:p

More on AUG specific manipulations in a later post.

AUG-specific manipulations are great, but they don't change the fact that a fast reload for an AUG is slower than a fast reload for an AR. ;)

[Shipwreck]

I like how much easier they are to clean over an AR, personally.. I also like the balance much better

[rob_s]

And I'm sure that you've never had people with ARs show up that didn't know what they were doing . . .:p

That's not what I said.

Give me any two people and allow an Aug expert to train one and an AR expert to train the other for an equal amount of time and an equal number of rounds, and in any shooting test that involves a wide range of manipulations the AR shooter will smoke the Aug shooter, no matter how many jazz hands methods of manipulation the anachronists come up with.

It seems that the personality type that is attracted to these things to begin with is the same that simply digs in their heels and becomes MORE adamant that there is some rational explanation to the silliness when opposed.

[Ed L]

AUG-specific manipulations are great, but they don't change the fact that a fast reload for an AUG is slower than a fast reload for an AR. ;)

You can also do mag changes with an AUG by using the new mag to depress the mag release of the AUG and drop the empty mag.

But applying the logic in the quoted post, there is no reason to own any semiauto .223/5.56mm longarm other than an AR.

And you should probably dump 3/4 of your semiauto handgun collection that can't be reloaded as quickly as a Glock, M&P, or 1911. The money could be better spent on ammo and classes than on outdated guns that are just taking up space.

[Ed L]

I like how much easier they are to clean over an AR, personally.. I also like the balance much better

I prefer the balance of the AUG also. I've run it in 3 or 4 carbine classes.

[Ed L]

That's not what I said.

Give me any two people and allow an Aug expert to train one and an AR expert to train the other for an equal amount of time and an equal number of rounds, and in any shooting test that involves a wide range of manipulations the AR shooter will smoke the Aug shooter, no matter how many jazz hands methods of manipulation the anachronists come up with.

It seems that the personality type that is attracted to these things to begin with is the same that simply digs in their heels and becomes MORE adamant that there is some rational explanation to the silliness when opposed.

You are absolutely correct, Rob.

There is no reason for anyone to own any other semiauto longarm than the AR.:rolleyes:

I checked the original posters first posts and I did not read any claims that the AUG was faster with reloads than an AR, nor that he was planning to compete against ARs with it in matches.

Sometimes people like different guns, and some of those different guns are actually quite capable.

It is amazing how threatened some AR people get when a different gun is mentioned that they feel the need to immediately chime in.

I mean if someone mentions that the bought a Beretta 92 do we see people swarming in to point out that it has a double and single action trigger pull and is not as easy to shoot as a Glock?

In this case we have a reliable well-made gun that sports a 16" barrel while retaining the overall length of an SBR'ed AR with the stock closed, with a safety located where it can be easily manipulated by the master hand. You can also do mag changes by using the new mag to depress the mag release of the AUG.

But then again, I've run the last 5 or 6 longarms classes that I have taken with some type of AR variant, so there must be something to it . . .

[GJM]

I mean if someone mentions that the bought a Beretta 92 do we see people swarming in to point out that it has a double and single action trigger pull and is not as easy to shoot as a Glock?

One difference being that Bill Rogers and Bill Wilson have personally told me, and I believe I have read Ernie Langdon say, that they shoot a Beretta 92 better than any other handgun on the planet.

As I said on page 1, in the 90's when the alternatives were an iron sighted AR or Mini 14, the AUG was revolutionary, and almost cheating by comparison. However, since that time the AUG has essentially remained in its original form, where the AR has developed into perhaps the most common long gun in America, and developed into perhaps the most shootable long gun ever.

If you value the AUG's design and compact size, are willing to forego what comes with the AR system in terms of commonality, shootability and accessories, don't have the need to shoot off the opposite shoulder (in my case I am right handed and my wife is left handed), and aren't concerned about the consequences of a kaboom next to your face, the AUG is arguably THE AR alternative.

The thread is entitled "any AUG fans," and presumably the OP was interested in opinions -- which have been given, some a little more brusquely than others.

[Dagga Boy]

That's not what I said.

Give me any two people and allow an Aug expert to train one and an AR expert to train the other for an equal amount of time and an equal number of rounds, and in any shooting test that involves a wide range of manipulations the AR shooter will smoke the Aug shooter, no matter how many jazz hands methods of manipulation the anachronists come up with.

It seems that the personality type that is attracted to these things to begin with is the same that simply digs in their heels and becomes MORE adamant that there is some rational explanation to the silliness when opposed.

Guess I'm That Guy......:(

Let's see, ran a AUG against an entire class of all AR's at an NRA L/E Patrol Rifle Instructor school and won the class........which by the way you have to run both Right and Left handed......you know, that can't be done with an AUG. I ran the AUG just to try to get the most out of the class by not running an AR because I had been to a ton of instructor level AR classes and never at a course with an AUG.

I reload a AUG pretty fast when I need to...........and the speed reload is such a HUGE issue for any practical use for a citizen or LEO in the U.S.....which is where I used an AUG a lot.

Want to set up a typical bolt over base malfunction and see who can clear it fastest............lets do it with one hand to make it fun:p.

The Austrian AUG (especially the newer ones running a Aimpoint) are ONE of my favorite guns for running typical U.S. urban operations. Is it better than an AR....? At some things yes, at others no. If it works in your world, great. I look at it as a simple Apple vs. PC type thing.

The only reason I am not carrying one as a primary is that they are harder to support for me than an AR. With that said, I really don't see ever getting rid of either of mine.

GJM....I actually have Bill Jeans old AUG that I ran as my helo gun post 9-11. Bill really did well with that gun at Gunsite. By the way, that reminds me. Compared to a A1 AUG, you would need to compare it to fixed carry handle AR's of the same era. The newer railed AUG's work well with modern optics and lighting systems.

It's pretty easy......don't like AUG's.....don't buy one. If they don't meet your needs.......don't buy one. If speed reload speed is your only consideration for a carbine....then don't buy one. If you want a very compact, very easy to run gun, ESPECIALLY indoors and confined spaces, that doesn't need any NFA paperwork and maintains a solid level of ballistic efficiency, then it might be an option.

[GJM]

GJM....I actually have Bill Jeans old AUG that I ran as my helo gun post 9-11. Bill really did well with that gun at Gunsite.

I remember when Bill rode around on the three wheeler at Gunsite with that thing on the rack. I bet that AUG has one of the scotch-brite trigger jobs by Giles Stock -- he did that to both my original AUG's. As I said on page 1 -- if you wanted an E ticket in the 90's in 223 at Gunsite, you pretty much needed an AUG.

I actually remember the story of Nate Piazza back at Gunsite to repeat 223 with a new AUG, trying to complete the E ticket. Apparently he rubbed some class mates the wrong way, and when his AUG was in the rifle rack between exercises, his 'mates might have been "helping him" with dope changes to the Swarovski optic.

I did Urban Rifle at Thunder Ranch days 1 and 2 with a .44 lever gun, but days 3-5 with an AUG, as my thumb got tired of pushing .44 cartridges thru the gate of the lever gun. The AUG was my primary for years, I did a bunch of courses with it, shot 3 Gun with it, although my wife and I did E tickets the hard way -- with AR's.

I thought long and hard before selling my 3 last December, but in my world they just don't do enough to make them worth supporting another system.

[Dagga Boy]

"I bet that AUG has one of the scotch-brite trigger jobs by Giles Stock -- he did that to both my original AUG's. As I said on page 1 -- if you wanted an E ticket in the 90's in 223 at Gunsite, you pretty much needed an AUG." Yes it does:D!

I almost got fired at my P.D. over trying to buy a Black AUG with the circle dot reticle. I was shooting a lot of 3 gun and competitive combat rifle and P.D. and Mil. shoots. The only guy I couldn't beat was running an AUG. He was insanely gifted with it, and he slew everyone with it (meaning all the AR guys). I didn't get my AUG until several years later and my "punishment" for trying to get the AUG for shooting for my P.D. in competition was to be banned from representing the department in matches and could only compete as an individual. It was nice that I proceeded to win every single stage of the county TOP GUN match held on the home field of the Sheriff's Dept in the largest county in the U.S. and that the TOP GUN award is at my house instead of at the P.D.'s museum.......where they have not won that award since the 50's:cool:. They sure showed me......:p.

[GJM]

Back in the 90's, a 16 inch BLACK AUG (as opposed to a 20 inch green one) and the circle dot reticle were the holy grail.

[Ed L]

Mine has a thin crosshair in the center of the donut shaped reticle.

[Tamara]

You can also do mag changes with an AUG by using the new mag to depress the mag release of the AUG and drop the empty mag.

But applying the logic in the quoted post, there is no reason to own any semiauto .223/5.56mm longarm other than an AR.

Yes, I know how to do mag changes on an AUG.

There's ample reason to own any gun out there, AUGs and ARs included: You want to.

But no matter how much lipstick you want to put on the pig, bullpups tend to give up a lot in exchange for that great bbl/OAL ratio. There's a certain inelegance to me in an engineering "solution" that solves one engineering problem (the barrel length to overall length ratio) and introduces several more: Longer and more complex trigger linkages, either only shootable from one shoulder or else a Rube Goldberg ejection system for spent shells, a more awkward reload, shorter sight radius with irons...

I'll note that, outside of a Robinson XCR and a sprinkling of SCARs, every rifle I saw this weekend (http://www.crimsontrace.com/company/crimson-traces-midnight-3-gun-invitational/) was an AR of some sort. I tend to file that under "clue". ;)

Basically I hold my belief based on long observation that bullpup ownership, like most uncommon imported rifle designs, is often a gun hipster reaction to the prevalence of AR/AK (and to a lesser extent M1A/FAL.) "Do you know what kind of rifle I'm shooting? You probably wouldn't; it's pretty rare." Owning the exotic bullpup sets one apart from the AR/AK shooting herd and marks one as a gun cognoscenti...

[Shipwreck]

Admittedly, I am new to THIS forum. I have been around on other forums for 9 years or so, and I run two gun forums right now (and previously ran another a few years back). I am not trying to brag when I throw this out there, but I am just bringing this up because I am far from a gun forum newbie.

This is my second time owning the AUG platform (had an MSAR before). However, some of the other respondents on this thread have a WHOLE lot more experience with the platform than I do.

That being said, one or two people on this thread just keep acting like a dog with a bone. I really don't know what the obsession with comparing any and everything with an AR is... Not everyone wants an AR. Not every gun works worse than an AR. I simply started a thread about my AUG in an effort to start a new thread and interact with people on this forum (since I just discovered it). I have discussed my AUG on many other forums before. Some people like it; some people don't. However, i have never seen this angle just be dragged out ad nauseum over and over on such a thread.

I have a S&W 15-22 22lr carbine that I like. Its sorta like an AR, and it is fun. But I didn't want an AR in 5.56 - I wanted an AUG. I like the gun a lot.

Whenever someone else posts about their gun (on any forum), I don't usually join the tread and tell them how much their gun sucks. In this case, I am not a newbie, and I know the AUG doesn't suck. I also have a lot of gun handling experience. But, that is essentially what is going on here. I did not start a thread to compare and contrast the AUG to an AR.

I may not stay at this forum long if this is the norm. Four pages of arguing. Now, I AM enjoying the knowledge that a couple of guys here are imparting about the AUG... The guys who actually have experience with one.... (Nyeti and GJM)

And, since I saw it come up in this thread too... I AM a guy who prefers the Beretta 92 over a Glock. Damn, imagine that! I have owned five Glocks over the years. Had nine 92s up until earlier this year (probably owned another six or seven over the years)... Now only have five, but they are set up exactly identical. I've been buying handguns non stop since 1997 or so. I've owned probably almost everything there is to own at one point or another... Sometimes I have owned the same gun a few times over the years, after I came to miss it.

After trying everything else, the 92 is my favorite platform. Only gun I show better was a $3000 1911 in 9mm that I used to have. But my shooting with the Berettas were not that far off from it, and I liked having the added capacity over what you can get into a 9mm 1911.

Why am I saying this? Apparently I am a beretta loving guy who also loves his Steyr AUG. must drive you crazy, huh? (Hahaha)

Anyway, if ya wanna keep complaining about the AUG, go right ahead. I am sorry I even brought it up.

[Ed L]

Yes, I know how to do mag changes on an AUG.

There's ample reason to own any gun out there, AUGs and ARs included: You want to.

But no matter how much lipstick you want to put on the pig, bullpups tend to give up a lot in exchange for that great bbl/OAL ratio. There's a certain inelegance to me in an engineering "solution" that solves one engineering problem (the barrel length to overall length ratio) and introduces several more: Longer and more complex trigger linkages, either only shootable from one shoulder or else a Rube Goldberg ejection system for spent shells, a more awkward reload, shorter sight radius with irons...

I'll note that, outside of a Robinson XCR and a sprinkling of SCARs, every rifle I saw this weekend (http://www.crimsontrace.com/company/crimson-traces-midnight-3-gun-invitational/) was an AR of some sort. I tend to file that under "clue". ;)

Basically I hold my belief based on long observation that bullpup ownership, like most uncommon imported rifle designs, is often a gun hipster reaction to the prevalence of AR/AK (and to a lesser extent M1A/FAL.) "Do you know what kind of rifle I'm shooting? You probably wouldn't; it's pretty rare." Owning the exotic bullpup sets one apart from the AR/AK shooting herd and marks one as a gun cognoscenti...

First, it's my belief that the words "hipster" and "gun" do not ever belong in the same sentence.

Second, Tamara, considering the number of rare and unusual guns that you own that most people could not identify, you should be the last to criticize anyone for owning or collecting a less than usual gun.

Third, my head is still spinning at the umbrage people have taken that someone has announced that he has a none-AR or AK.

Finally, the man simply came here and posted a photo of his quality gun. It is not like he proclaimed it to be ebtter than the AR or claimed he was going to compete against ARs with it. I don't understand the instant comparisons and animosity.

[GJM]

Shipwreck, don't take it personal, but this is what we do at PF -- argue, discuss, debate, dissect, and pontificate. Anytime a thread asking opinions goes more than a page or two there is going to be some butt-hurt involved. This seems pretty mild by comparison to other threads with a multi-page count.

Now if you don't care about how the AUG stacks up to an AR, start a thread asking for how best to run an AUG. Ed seems to have interest, a bunch of us have owned them for years, and Nyeti will have lots of info (he loves anything from the late 80's/90's and probably still has an eight track in the car he cruises Havasu in).

[Tamara]

First, it's my belief that the words "hipster" and "gun" do not ever belong in the same sentence.

Second, Tamara, considering the number of rare and unusual guns that you own that most people could not identify, you should be the last to criticize anyone for owning or collecting a less than usual gun.

Third, my head is still spinning at the umbrage people have taken that someone has announced that he has a none-AR or AK.

Finally, the man simply came here and posted a photo of his quality gun. It is not like he proclaimed it to be ebtter than the AR or claimed he was going to compete against ARs with it. I don't understand the instant comparisons and animosity.

Ed,

First, if "gun" and "hipster" didn't belong in the same sentence, nobody would own a Caracal or anything in .357SIG. ;)

Second, I haven't taken any umbrage at his gun. I didn't even say anything to him; I replied to your point.

I like his gun. I like AUGs better than ARs. I don't particularly like ARs. AUGs look cool, balance well, and handle fast. Looking back on my comment about last night, given that I don't think there were any rifle reloads on the clock, there's no reason you couldn't have handed anyone in the top ten, where fractions of a second count, an AUG and they'd have blazed the match just as fast...

All that said, where my umbrage comes in is when people go past "I wanted one" and invent superiorities and/or gloss over shortcomings in their pet gat. Also, people get so invested in in their choice of heaters that they misinterpret someone saying "I don't particularly like your gun," as "I don't particularly like you. And you're stupid." The latter does not at all automatically follow from the former. ;)

Once upon a time I would have gladly had an AUG, when my collection swung more towards modern rifles. (As a matter of fact, I came within this much of buying a full auto one back in '01. Had the forms ready to file and got cold feet at the last minute.) But just because I really like, say, my Garand, like it better than the AR by a long shot, doesn't mean I'm going to invent reasons why it's an objectively better gun.

[Dagga Boy]

Hey, I recently went back to my signature "80's Porn Star" signature mustache........it was cheaper than a mid life crisis Corvette.

Seriously: There are a ton of viable systems out there in the firearms world that ALL have plusses and minuses. If the plusses fit YOUR world the best and you have done the due dilligence, then use it. I have a ton of guns because I am obsessive about trying to perfectly fit the gun to the current situation in my life. I carried an AUG in the L/E helicopter that was my full time job for several years because my Chief gave me specific direction to carry a rifle in the airship, and our pilots would only allow a long gun in the aircraft if it had a factory brass catcher that would keep all the brass contained and could be shot with most of the gun contained in the ship, and it needed to be short and easily stowed and carried....the AUG was the perfect fit. I carried one almost exclusively doing some very sensitive corporate work in SoCal and it was the perfect fit for that particular job for many reasons. I think it is the best home defense carbine for a citizen running a red dot and a Surefire scout or mini scout as it is very easy to use indoors, is small, offers 16" barrel velocity and blast in a 10" AR size, and requires no NFA paperwork, and the chances are pretty low that a slight gain in speed of reload will be a major factor. Truthfully, I also mush prefer some of the ergonomics of the AUG as a right handed shooter who does not do much, if any shoulder switching.......so for me it fits that role as well. Is it perfect for everyone and every situation...........that gun has not been invented yet.

For Tamara.........some people are just uncomfortable with admitting its "a pride of ownership" gun.........I have lots of these. Many are "example" guns that I have just so I know how to run them for teaching or building of expertise (Beretta 92, Para Fal, Galil's, Browning HiPower, Enfield, etc.....). Sometimes those pride of ownership guns end up being a good primary-e.g.-if you lived in a state that just made your AR essentially a felony to own, all of a sudden that Garand or a M1A might not be such a bad thing. Equally, if your Glock 17 can only be carried with 7 rounds in the magazine.........well, I'll be back to a 1911. Often times the world isn't a objective place as other factors make for some subjective reasoning.

[Doug]

I think it is the best home defense carbine for a citizen running a red dot and a Surefire scout or mini scout as it is very easy to use indoors, is small, offers 16" barrel velocity and blast in a 10" AR size, and requires no NFA paperwork, and the chances are pretty low that a slight gain in speed of reload will be a major factor.

Good to hear from someone who has used an AUG in LE.

There are many states where a SBR is unobtanium. So the desire to have a shorter length long arm, say 26 inches, to fill the role within more confined spaces seems desirable.

Additionally, with a bullpup, one can more easliy hold a rifle one hand if you have to use the other to grab your kid or dog out of the way or moving due to the weapon's rearward center of gravity.

If my state wasnt so restrictive and oppressive, I would use my bullpup for my long arm in the house but since 30" is the min rifle length before you hit registered assault weapon status why bother :(

The chances that a situation will arise are infinitesmal that I will be doing multiple magazine changes because of rounds expended and switching shoulders, in my house for real.

PS My go to firearm in my house is a pistol with a laser. My barricade in the bedroom long arm is a simple non descript carbine.

To the OP, congrats on your AUG.

[Tamara]

Shorter The Internet: "Thanks to everybody who agrees with me! The rest of y'all are haters." ;)

This is a tangentially-related aside and maybe should be split off into its own thread, but I'm curious as to how many people, for their long gun (or pistol) intended for social use, keep one or two pretty much identical backup guns, a rimfire understudy of some sort, a reasonable supply of magazines and spares, and take it to competitions and classes?

A lot of discussions like this sometimes remind me of discussions of handgun "carry rotations".

[Drang]

Shipwreck, don't take it personal, but this is what we do at PF -- argue, discuss, debate, dissect, and pontificate. Anytime a thread asking opinions goes more than a page or two there is going to be some butt-hurt involved.
Just because there's a thread right now where people are arguing about whether being "in the zone" is the same thing as being "on auto-pilot"...

[Clyde from Carolina]

What GJM said. This place can get a little wild at times if you aren't used to it, but the knowledge here is probably second to none and the people are pretty okay too, if you give 'em a chance.

They just aren't shy about voicing their opinions. Don't take it personal. :)

I'm a native-born Southerner and we say, "Aw shucks" and stammer and get flustered and say, "Bless their heart" when disagreeing with somebody or saying anything disparaging about anybody or anything...my Yankee friends don't get it. That is just how we are raised. Not sure where the OP hails from, but I know we Southerners can be quick to take umbrage when others really don't mean any disrespect.

[Ed L]

That being said, one or two people on this thread just keep acting like a dog with a bone. I really don't know what the obsession with comparing any and everything with an AR is... Not everyone wants an AR. Not every gun works worse than an AR. I simply started a thread about my AUG in an effort to start a new thread and interact with people on this forum (since I just discovered it). I have discussed my AUG on many other forums before. Some people like it; some people don't. However, i have never seen this angle just be dragged out ad nauseum over and over on such a thread.

This is my point. In rereading this thread, I am not even how the criticism began on the AUG began or why.


Whenever someone else posts about their gun (on any forum), I don't usually join the tread and tell them how much their gun sucks. In this case, I am not a newbie, and I know the AUG doesn't suck. I also have a lot of gun handling experience. But, that is essentially what is going on here. I did not start a thread to compare and contrast the AUG to an AR.

Exactly.


And, since I saw it come up in this thread too... I AM a guy who prefers the Beretta 92 over a Glock. Damn, imagine that!

Oops, I wasn't meaning to criticize the Beretta, but using it as an example as a quality gun that is different than a Glock, M&P, or 1911. Would we see people jumping all over it if someone simply posted that he had a Beretta or Berettas along with a picture of his gun(s)?


Anyway, if ya wanna keep complaining about the AUG, go right ahead. I am sorry I even brought it up.

Don't be sorry. This is usually one of the better firearms and training forum on the internet.

[Ed L]

[QUOTE=Tamara;154763 But just because I really like, say, my Garand, like it better than the AR by a long shot, doesn't mean I'm going to invent reasons why it's an objectively better gun.[/QUOTE]

Please show me where anyone in this thread stated that the AUG was objectively a better gun than the AR.

The original poster wrote that he simply liked it better, which is his personal preference, and this seemed to tick a few people off. Other people have pointed out the pluses of the AUG, such as providing 16" barrel ballistics in a 28" overall package that doesn't require an NFA stamp. We are not talking about an M1 Garand here.

I mean this whole thread started when someone posted a photo of his AUG. I haven't seen this type of AUG angst on M4 specific forums.

[Tamara]

... AUG angst...

I think that there's some AUG angst here, alright. I'll bow out of the thread; y'all rock on.

[Ed L]

...AUG angst ...

Holy crap, did I write those words? Where's the edit feature?

Anyway, I'll raise you this:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/catampAUG_zps9ae5d9cd.jpg

[Dagga Boy]

A quick update to this typical "how did that happen" thread on P-F.

I finally fell into the right deal on a Vltor made A3 AUG. My A2 got the Steyr Scope that was on the A3 and has been pretty much retired as I have a boat load of money in it and it is very Austrian correct. It will sit in the safe with its companion all Austrian Gen 3 G-19. The Aimpoint Comp M4 that was on the A2 went on the A3. I plan on beating the tar out of this one (like my A1) as it is not a collectable in my mind, and is fairly supportable. I am also going to try running almost exclusively with 42 round mags to make up for being "so hard":confused: to reload and slow. Lighting will probably be a 500 Lumen scout with a long cabled tape switch mounted on the rt side rail. If that doesn't work, I'll go with a spare barrel set up with the two rails in place of the VFG and run a 1000 Lumen Fury on the left side.

For many reasons, I will stay current on the AR, but I intend on spending a bunch of very serious time with the AUG in 2014. After working a bunch of dry drills tonight, I am looking forward to running one of these again.

[breakingtime91]

Really late to this thread, interesting read though. While I agree with Sean about the potentional dangers of the bull pup design, I am curious about how many AUGs have catastrophically failed. Also I believe if your not issued something, you should own whatever you like to carry or shoot to a reasonable degree. I honestly don't see the disadvantage of the AUG to a AR. While I am not bashing the AR, I feel like some forget some of the problems this platform has had. While I don't share the credintials of Sean, I did deploy twice to Afghanistan as a Marine infantryman with a M4(the rifle i had on my 2009 deployment had been used in alot of thgebig fights in Iraq before hand to give you a perspective on the quality of the rifles we usually had to make due with, i.e beaten up to put it lightly). This gave me a insight on what I had to do to get the gun to run right. While it is a relaible gun, its not the holy grail. And while the ergonomics are the best out there in a fighting rifle, the length sometimes left me much to be desired, which is a +with the steyr. This honeslty isnt that big of a issue. But when clearing a field workers dig out in the middle of a poppy field, setting the stock over your shoulder left me with little comfort in a close in fight (if it would of happened). So I say use whatever you want and don't worry about speed reloading, I assume if you shoot 30 rds in your house, probably gonna have time through supression to do a 1 second slower reload (or perferably a tac-reload well before that if able).

Also before I get jumped on about talking about AR reliability, I know from first hand experience: Pmags, good lubrication, and running the gun wet is much better than running it dry. That works great but its still a hinderance. Sucks to do a 12k patrol to get back and break down your gun and see your bolt stuck because of the ammount of sand and grit encrusting your bolt and lube =(. Also sean it would be interesting to hear your take on a how to keep the AR going in a hostile enviroment in a different thread, such as tapping the muzzle and such.

*I know most of that thread doesnt have much to do with the things a civillian AR owner will run into. Just my perspective*