Ohio Instructor ND's into Student's Arm....

[BaiHu]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/08/12/concealed-carry-accidental-shooting.html


LANCASTER, Ohio — A firearms instructor accidentally shot a student while teaching a gun-safety class on Saturday in Fairfield County to people seeking permits to carry concealed weapons.

Terry J. Dunlap Sr., who runs a shooting range and training center at 6995 Coonpath Rd. near Lancaster, was demonstrating a handgun when he fired a .38-caliber bullet that ricocheted off a desk and into student Michael Piemonte’s right arm.

Dunlap, 73, also is a long-time Violet Township trustee who is running for re-election in November.

[SecondsCount]

Dunlap, 73, also is a long-time Violet Township trustee who is running for re-election in November.

It was just a publicity stunt. ;)

[Tamara]

I take it this was during the "Things you shouldn't do" portion of the lecture?

[ToddG]

He was the only one in that room qualified to handle a .38 revolv- OUCH!

[Tamara]

Rumor mill on the phone said it happened while the dude was going on about how safe revolvers were.

Even if it's not true, it should be. :D

[Sparks2112]

He was demonstrating how you can shoot a revolver from a pocket etc...

This made me all sorts of unhappy.

[Kyle Reese]

He was demonstrating how you can shoot a revolver from a pocket etc...

This made me all sorts of unhappy.

Seriously?

[Wendell]

It was just a publicity stunt. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCMI6t2RT18

[JodyH]

Coonfingering on Coonpath Rd.

[Prdator]

A few things to think on........

From my Good Friend and Mentor Greg Ellifritz. ( He said it WAY better than I ever could)


"A lot of my friends are linking to this story about an instructor accidentally shooting a student during a concealed carry class. Most of the comments are very disparaging of the instructor and make the assumption that he is a poorly trained, inept, NRA basic handgun instructor. That isn't the case.

While his actions and lax safety protocols are inexcusable, he isn't an "idiot instructor" like many are assuming. The man who accidentally shot his student was the man who taught me to shoot a handgun. He has been instructing longer than most of you have been alive.

Back when I was a little kid in the 1970s, the instructor that all of you are disparaging was a police Captain, Rangemaster, and lead instructor for the police department where my dad was a part time cop. His instruction at the time was revolutionary. He built home made shoot houses, set up jungle lanes with pop up targets, and did force on force scenario training with wax bullets and .38 revolvers way before anyone ever heard of simunitions or airsoft. In the 70's and 80's that was unheard of, especially for a 20-officer rural police department.

He always took the time to run a 10-year old kid (me) through all the scenarios and drills he put his cops through. He had a lot of knowledge and he was never shy about sharing it...even with a little kid who was obsessed with guns.

He retired from the police department and then took over the training for all of the armed security guards for Nationwide Insurance. He ran numerous police academies and hosted countless high level training classes for cops all around the state.

Even though I haven't spoken to him for quite some time and he's getting on in years, he still might be able to out shoot me with a revolver.

I'm not trying to defend his actions. I'm just trying to impart some information that some of you may not know. I know some very competent and high level instructors who have had ADs in class. I've witnessed some of them. People fuck up. But that one fuck up isn't necessarily a reflection on their character or knowledge.

For those of you who teach, don't be too quick to criticize because it might be you in the hot seat next time, no matter how "high speed" you think you are. Instead, use incidents like this one to examine your own safety protocols to ensure no one gets shot in your classes.
Ohio instructor shoots student in gun-safety class"

[gtmtnbiker98]

A few things to think on........

From my Good Friend and Mentor Greg Ellifritz. ( He said it WAY better than I ever could)


"A lot of my friends are linking to this story about an instructor accidentally shooting a student during a concealed carry class. Most of the comments are very disparaging of the instructor and make the assumption that he is a poorly trained, inept, NRA basic handgun instructor. That isn't the case.

While his actions and lax safety protocols are inexcusable, he isn't an "idiot instructor" like many are assuming. The man who accidentally shot his student was the man who taught me to shoot a handgun. He has been instructing longer than most of you have been alive.

Back when I was a little kid in the 1970s, the instructor that all of you are disparaging was a police Captain, Rangemaster, and lead instructor for the police department where my dad was a part time cop. His instruction at the time was revolutionary. He built home made shoot houses, set up jungle lanes with pop up targets, and did force on force scenario training with wax bullets and .38 revolvers way before anyone ever heard of simunitions or airsoft. In the 70's and 80's that was unheard of, especially for a 20-officer rural police department.

He always took the time to run a 10-year old kid (me) through all the scenarios and drills he put his cops through. He had a lot of knowledge and he was never shy about sharing it...even with a little kid who was obsessed with guns.

He retired from the police department and then took over the training for all of the armed security guards for Nationwide Insurance. He ran numerous police academies and hosted countless high level training classes for cops all around the state.

Even though I haven't spoken to him for quite some time and he's getting on in years, he still might be able to out shoot me with a revolver.

I'm not trying to defend his actions. I'm just trying to impart some information that some of you may not know. I know some very competent and high level instructors who have had ADs in class. I've witnessed some of them. People fuck up. But that one fuck up isn't necessarily a reflection on their character or knowledge.

For those of you who teach, don't be too quick to criticize because it might be you in the hot seat next time, no matter how "high speed" you think you are. Instead, use incidents like this one to examine your own safety protocols to ensure no one gets shot in your classes.
Ohio instructor shoots student in gun-safety class"
He will probably be charged. Section 2903.14 Ohio Revised Code.

[ToddG]

A few things to think on........

I've lost count of the number of times I've decried our community's insistence on excommunicating and crucifying everyone who commits a safety violation with a firearm. We get so wrapped up in "that shouldn't happen!" that we lose sight of why it happened and, more importantly, we gloss over any rational discussion of how to prevent it in the future. I'm too safe to make that mistake! is not an adequate prevention plan.

OTOH, when your mistake actually results in shooting someone -- especially a student who came to you to learn about firearms safety -- then you haven't simply made a little mistake. You've shot someone and, as gtmt points out, that's usually a crime. It's the difference between saying "I was driving distracted and veered into another lane" versus "I was distracted and veered into another car."

As this forum has discussed more than once before, the Cardinal Rules represent multiple redundant layers of safety specifically to avoid these kinds of accidents. For someone to shoot another person accidentally multiple mistakes have to be made. That very reasonably calls into question what happened and why.

So while I don't think this one instance should define the instructor's entire history, neither does his history redefine this instance.

[Prdator]

Well said dude!!

[TCinVA]

Doesn't really matter how many little old ladies you helped across the street when there's one smeared all over your front bumper. Sort of the same thing here.

[baddean]

In our classes we have always told students that there are no accidents only negligence. And now reading this thread I referred to Websters dictionary (I'm glad a teacher taught me how to read) to see what the difference was.
Accident: An unfortunate event resulting from carelessness, unawareness, ignorance, or a combination of causes.
Negligent: Failure to exercise the care that a prudent person usually exercises. (culpably careless or indicative of such carelessness)
I guess one might consider what happened in Columbus and "accident" but I think I'm still going with "negligent".
Neglecting the basic safety procedures. No live ammo in the classroom, ever!
With classes coming up the next two weekends this just reinforces safety procedures.
Oh, and what Todd said.

[Chuck Haggard]

I often ask people who go all Spanish Inquisition on people who have had an ND if they have ever had a car accident. Most of them have. I then point out that they had likely displayed the same level of momentary inattention that it takes to ND a gun.

Lots of people think an ND is a huge big deal, but car accidents not so much.

Just an observation.

[LHS]

I often ask people who go all Spanish Inquisition on people who have had an ND if they have ever had a car accident. Most of them have. I then point out that they had likely displayed the same level of momentary inattention that it takes to ND a gun.

Lots of people think an ND is a huge big deal, but car accidents not so much.

Just an observation.

Depends on whether your accident kills/injures anyone or not, I suppose.

[Chuck Haggard]

Depends on whether your accident kills/injures anyone or not, I suppose.

Somewhat, but the point is just because you got lax and didn't kill anyone doesn't mean you didn't F up. One gets lucky at times, doesn't mean they did anything right at all.

[LHS]

Somewhat, but the point is just because you got lax and didn't kill anyone doesn't mean you didn't F up. One gets lucky at times, doesn't mean they did anything right at all.

Absolutely, but they don't put you in prison for veering left of center. They put you in prison for veering left of center, smashing head-on into another car, and killing five people.

[Tamara]

I often ask people who go all Spanish Inquisition on people who have had an ND if they have ever had a car accident. Most of them have. I then point out that they had likely displayed the same level of momentary inattention that it takes to ND a gun.

Lots of people think an ND is a huge big deal, but car accidents not so much.

Just an observation.

It's still important to not just hand-wave these things away, but rather to draw a lesson from them. The big lesson I'm taking away here is that forty bucks for a blue gun and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Sparks2112]

I'm sorry, but there are certain instances where the stakes are TOO HIGH to say well, everyone efs up, this being one of them.

I really could care less about who you were. What I care about is that apparently who you are now is one of the "I thought the gun was empty" people who shoot other people that don't need shooting. Harsh? Sure is, we have to be.

As far as Todd's point as far as excoriating someone versus examining WHY the accident happened. We don't need to examine why the accident happened. It's not like there was a bird strike, a company not enforcing sleep policies, or some sort of weird esoteric mechanical malfunction. Anyone with half a brain reading this right now knows WHY it happened. There were flagrant violations of pretty much every safety rule there is. He was classroom demoing with a live gun. He pulled the trigger on a gun pointed at someone else, which I'm sorry, would cause a pretty vehement reaction on my part whether or not the thing was loaded. Should I keep going?

[Nephrology]

I often ask people who go all Spanish Inquisition on people who have had an ND if they have ever had a car accident. Most of them have. I then point out that they had likely displayed the same level of momentary inattention that it takes to ND a gun.

Lots of people think an ND is a huge big deal, but car accidents not so much.

Just an observation.

Having an ND is a much more deliberate action than having a car accident IMO.

Driving a car requires the constant assessment of and reaction to a number of changing variables, much of which lies beyond your control (actions of other drivers, road conditions, etc).

Unless you are using a firearm in a public place to stop an attacker, or doing advanced live-fire drills with other people (shoot houses, etc), you are in control. You control when the guns are being handled, by whom, and in what condition. You control where they are pointed and where they are not pointed. On a square range doing an instructor demo, you always have the luxury of checking the chamber. You always have the luxury of not muzzling another human being (in fact, I would are you that you always have the obligation to not muzzle another human being). And the instructor always has the luxury of thinking about where his "shot" will go before pulling the trigger.

There is no rush. You're teaching a bunch of new people how to shoot. An accident of this sort is really pretty unforgivable given the circumstances. If he accidentally shot someone while drawing to stop a dangerous attacker, I would be more understanding. However, he had no impediment to following proper gun safety protocol and he did not.

I understand that complacency and inattention can lead to NDs. I have had one (and only one) myself. In my case, I was clearing a glock to field strip it and had obviously not paid enough attention to the chamber. Fortunately, I followed the other cardinal rules, and my round went into a wall backed by 80 feet of dirt. Nobody got hurt outside of my pride and my ego - my firearms stayed locked in the safe for days after, and I kept the spent casing as a reminder.

That said, when you are teaching other people the rules of gun safety and basic handgun marksmanship (And somehow muzzling them in the process) you do not have the luxury of making mistakes, and should behave accordingly.

[ford.304]

I think the lesson here is that years of experience and expertise don't excuse you from the rules. The rules exist because our stupid monkey brains think "it'll be fine this once" is an entirely reasonable argument.

"oh crap, I left the blue gun at home today. Well, I can't just skip the demonstration - what did these folks come here to learn, anyway?"

Not saying that's what happened specifically here, but it's the sort of dumb thing otherwise careful people will rationalize themselves into.

[TCinVA]

I'm sorry, but there are certain instances where the stakes are TOO HIGH to say well, everyone efs up, this being one of them.

I really could care less about who you were. What I care about is that apparently who you are now is one of the "I thought the gun was empty" people who shoot other people that don't need shooting. Harsh? Sure is, we have to be.

As far as Todd's point as far as excoriating someone versus examining WHY the accident happened. We don't need to examine why the accident happened. It's not like there was a bird strike, a company not enforcing sleep policies, or some sort of weird esoteric mechanical malfunction. Anyone with half a brain reading this right now knows WHY it happened. There were flagrant violations of pretty much every safety rule there is. He was classroom demoing with a live gun. He pulled the trigger on a gun pointed at someone else, which I'm sorry, would cause a pretty vehement reaction on my part whether or not the thing was loaded. Should I keep going?

From the sound of things the weapon wasn't pointed directly at a student...the round ricochetted into the student.

Most classrooms I've been in have some similar features: block concrete walls and hard floors, which means that a truly safe direction is hard to find as bullet bits tend to hit such surfaces and bounce.

[ToddG]

I really could care less about who you were. What I care about is that apparently who you are now is one of the "I thought the gun was empty" people who shoot other people that don't need shooting. Harsh? Sure is, we have to be.

http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/pointoveryourhead.jpg

No one is excusing what he did.


Anyone with half a brain reading this right now knows WHY it happened.

Please go through the steps, specifically, that led to this accident when he'd taught the same class many times before without having an accident. Don't just say "he had a loaded gun." You're right, any idiot understands that. But since he obviously knew having a loaded gun was wrong (as demonstrated by all the previous classes when he didn't have a loaded gun for the demo) what precisely went wrong this time?

Was this a new part of class that he hadn't demo'd before? If so, was it planned or spontaneous?

If he'd done this demo previously what steps did he used to take to prevent accidents? How did he perform them? When did he perform them? What if any redundant checks were performed? Were one or more of those steps skipped this time? Or did he go through them subconsciously without actually seeing that the gun was loaded?

Did he previously do this demo pointed in a different direction but for some reason was pointed toward the students this time? If so, what precipitated that change?

Did he have a blue gun or similar demo tool? If so, why didn't he use it? If not, why didn't he have one?

Your approach is: It doesn't matter why, he veered into the other lane and caused an accident so he sucks.

Mine is: Did he veer into the other lane because he was DUI, or texting, or asleep, or his hands were slippery from eating a Hershey's bar, or what? What specific thing did he do that we should learn not to do?

[peterb]

Right. In the flying world, well-trained, experienced pilots sometimes fly perfectly good airplanes into the ground. It's easy to think "what an idiot!". But on reflection you realize that someone with that background HAD to know better, yet made a bad choice anyways. The "why?" is usually not as simple as it appears.

As a student pilot, I read accident reports and "there I was, thought I was gonna die" stories trying to understand the decision chain that got them there. It's usually not just one thing. Nobody intends to have an accident.

[tremiles]

I often ask people who go all Spanish Inquisition on people who have had an ND if they have ever had a car accident. Most of them have. I then point out that they had likely displayed the same level of momentary inattention that it takes to ND a gun.

Lots of people think an ND is a huge big deal, but car accidents not so much.

Just an observation.

As a victim of several negligent vehicle collisions where the other driver was at fault, I'd be curious to see if the trainer's insurance company tries to screw the ND victim for "not getting clear of the malfunctioning firearm".

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Nephrology]

From the sound of things the weapon wasn't pointed directly at a student...the round ricochetted into the student.

Most classrooms I've been in have some similar features: block concrete walls and hard floors, which means that a truly safe direction is hard to find as bullet bits tend to hit such surfaces and bounce.

Oops. Reading comprehension has failed me once again. That changes my opinion a little bit. I am surprised that a ricochet would have enough force to break skin.

[ToddG]

I am surprised that a ricochet would have enough force to break skin.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120317005259/archer/images/9/9b/Brettcropped2.png

[Suvorov]

Right. In the flying world, well-trained, experienced pilots sometimes fly perfectly good airplanes into the ground. It's easy to think "what an idiot!". But on reflection you realize that someone with that background HAD to know better, yet made a bad choice anyways. The "why?" is usually not as simple as it appears.

As a student pilot, I read accident reports and "there I was, thought I was gonna die" stories trying to understand the decision chain that got them there. It's usually not just one thing. Nobody intends to have an accident.


Yep,

I was one of those "how could that guy be so stupid" pilots too, until I had a few hundred hours more and I WAS THAT IDIOT I warned my students about - only I got lucky! And you know what? even today things develop that in hindsight make me realize that I could have made world news if only things had been a little bit different. As my experience goes up and the years go by, I become more and more aware of my own fallibility and more convinced that the only pilots that vow they will never "be that stupid" are the inexperienced or the delusional.

The parallels between guns and aircraft are many. There is a reason that so many movies have been made that glorify both machines and a reason the news is often filled with so many tragic examples of what happens when people are not properly trained, using poor judgement, or simply get complacent (this is the thing that really kills the experienced).

When a vetted instructor shoots a student or an airline pilot stalls a perfectly good 777 into the sea wall, it is far easier to blame the individual involved, call them a disparaging name, and then pat oneself on the back assuredly. Rest confidently however that the person involved in the incident has probably done the same thing before themselves.

The harder thing is to step back and try to understand how this event occurred and realize that it can happen to the best of us. Are there idiots out there who are walking menaces to themselves and society? Sure, and Darwin may or may not (I am often amazed at the number of real "idiots" that die of old age) thin them out soon enough. But most professionals do not set out in the morning planning to make the news, the devil is in the details and only after looking at the accident in full context can one make a sound decision as to just how stupid the person involved was. This is the ONLY way that safety can improve from a human factors perspective.


I'm sorry, but there are certain instances where the stakes are TOO HIGH to say well, everyone efs up, this being one of them.

Well, flying aluminum tubes at 80% the speed of sound has pretty high stakes as well, and the 1st basic tenet of modern Crew Resource Management (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management) is that EVERYONE WILL MAKE A MISTAKE.

[BWT]

I made a memorable mistake once. I set a loaded 1911 that I ejected a magazine from with a loaded chamber on a chair. I didn't take the time to empty the chamber. What I learned is there's always time for safety. Just takes a second to make a horrible decision.

ETA: I didn't take the time to notice the person standing behind me.

[BaiHu]

http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/pointoveryourhead.jpg

No one is excusing what he did.



Please go through the steps, specifically, that led to this accident when he'd taught the same class many times before without having an accident. Don't just say "he had a loaded gun." You're right, any idiot understands that. But since he obviously knew having a loaded gun was wrong (as demonstrated by all the previous classes when he didn't have a loaded gun for the demo) what precisely went wrong this time?

Was this a new part of class that he hadn't demo'd before? If so, was it planned or spontaneous?

If he'd done this demo previously what steps did he used to take to prevent accidents? How did he perform them? When did he perform them? What if any redundant checks were performed? Were one or more of those steps skipped this time? Or did he go through them subconsciously without actually seeing that the gun was loaded?

Did he previously do this demo pointed in a different direction but for some reason was pointed toward the students this time? If so, what precipitated that change?

Did he have a blue gun or similar demo tool? If so, why didn't he use it? If not, why didn't he have one?

Your approach is: It doesn't matter why, he veered into the other lane and caused an accident so he sucks.

Mine is: Did he veer into the other lane because he was DUI, or texting, or asleep, or his hands were slippery from eating a Hershey's bar, or what? What specific thing did he do that we should learn not to do?

I'm not a professional, but I'd guess that somewhere Chris Matthews might be getting a tingling feeling up his leg when Todd gets all lawyer-ly like this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9fpKVXxCc

[David Armstrong]

Clearly this cannot be true. Why, I've heard it over and over on the internet that only untrained people have NDs, and that all NDs can be prevented if the person had more training. I mean, gosh, the internet wouldn't lie, would it??:rolleyes:

[Dagga Boy]

This one hits close to home for many reasons. We (Wayne and I) get flak for our over emphasis of firearms safety and weapons handling......often from the higher speed folks. This is a perfect example of the most dangerous person in the room being the most experienced. I learned a long time ago from Scott Reitz that the instructor usually needs to be watched more closely than the students. This is becoming way too common. It is why we no longer use functioning firearms in a classroom. Usually they are dedicated training tools (blue/red guns or SIRT pistols) or disabled and visually confirmable by all weapons. It may be overkill, but the goal here is to learn from others mistakes. Those mistakes have taught us over and over that live firearms should not be used in a classroom. Additionally, we have learned that many of these incidents occur after breaks....and usually lunch. It is why we do a safety lecture and three briefs in a two day class. We do a post lunch brief because we have learned through others mistakes that post lunch is a good time for a reminder.

We need to assess these incidents and learn from them while we are being disturbed by them.

[BaiHu]

..... I mean, gosh, the internet wouldn't lie, would it??:rolleyes:

Wait, so what you're saying is true and I should trust you or what you're saying is facetious and the internet is always lying and I shouldn't trust it even when I think it's right :confused:

1701

[Jay Cunningham]

This one hits close to home for many reasons. We (Wayne and I) get flak for our over emphasis of firearms safety and weapons handling......often from the higher speed folks. This is a perfect example of the most dangerous person in the room being the most experienced. I learned a long time ago from Scott Reitz that the instructor usually needs to be watched more closely than the students. This is becoming way too common. It is why we no longer use functioning firearms in a classroom. Usually they are dedicated training tools (blue/red guns or SIRT pistols) or disabled and visually confirmable by all weapons. It may be overkill, but the goal here is to learn from others mistakes. Those mistakes have taught us over and over that live firearms should not be used in a classroom. Additionally, we have learned that many of these incidents occur after breaks....and usually lunch. It is why we do a safety lecture and three briefs in a two day class. We do a post lunch brief because we have learned through others mistakes that post lunch is a good time for a reminder.

We need to assess these incidents and learn from them while we are being disturbed by them.


http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/right_on.jpg

[Sparks2112]

http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/pointoveryourhead.jpg

No one is excusing what he did.


If I just concede defeat right now, can I avoid the intellectual pummeling that you are more than capable of doling out? ;)

[ToddG]

If I just concede defeat right now, can I avoid the intellectual pummeling that you are more than capable of doling out? ;)

I don't want you to concede defeat. As someone who's got a growing following of shooters listening to his thoughts and opinions every week, I'd like you to reconsider this incident from a fact based objective point of view and focus on ways to prevent it in the future.

[Sparks2112]

I don't want you to concede defeat. As someone who's got a growing following of shooters listening to his thoughts and opinions every week, I'd like you to reconsider this incident from a fact based objective point of view and focus on ways to prevent it in the future.

Eh, I've already thought about it, my response earlier was based off emotion and having woken up before noon and thinking I could string together an actual thought. What are the chances we get any fact based information about what happened? I'm sure if I tried I could find dude's phone number, and say "Hey, mind coming on my show and telling me how you effed up?" We all know what the answer to that would likely be. "I'm not posting this video to be ridiculed...my gun malfunctioned."

And in fairness they're not listening to my thoughts and opinions, they're in it for the awesome intro music. ;)

[Odin Bravo One]

We owe it to everyone around us to provide and promote a safe training environment, no matter how inherently dangerous the training may be, or how simple and basic it may appear. No one is too experienced, or too cool, or too high speed to pause for a few minutes to review not just the emergency plan, but also the safety measures that will hopefully prevent needing to use it.

[Al T.]

We all know what the answer to that would likely be.

I wouldn't bet that Mr. Dunlap will clam up. A hallmark of a professional is admitting mistakes in order for the teaching point to have some value. I'm not seeing anything that indicates he wouldn't want others to learn from his error(s).

[ToddG]

He also just caused someone injury due to negligence. His attorney probably recommended he "clam up." Let's not attribute malice to every breath the guy takes.

[Sparks2112]

He also just caused someone injury due to negligence. His attorney probably recommended he "clam up." Let's not attribute malice to every breath the guy takes.

Burn the witch!

[Sparks2112]

Not the first time he shot someone negligently... (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/08/21/accidental-shooting-was-not-first-for-firearms-instructor.html)

[BaiHu]

Ouch! A little bit like Filner standing up against sexual assault in the military with this guy being "the community’s safety-service director" eh?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[TCinVA]

Not the first time he shot someone negligently... (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/08/21/accidental-shooting-was-not-first-for-firearms-instructor.html)

Wow...

[Kyle Reese]

Guess the rules don't apply to this guy...

[hufnagel]

Serious question...

Were the 70s different in terms of gun safety? I know today no one would think of going Mexican Fiesta with their firearms, but was the mentality different back then?

[Byron]

Were the 70s different in terms of gun safety? I know today no one would think of going Mexican Fiesta with their firearms, but was the mentality different back then?
It seems that even back then, he knew what he did was wrong. Why else would he try the "I thought it was loaded with blanks" story? If random gunfire into the air was an acceptable practice in that place and time, I'd imagine he would just say, "Yea, I shot off a round: just like everyone in this town does at [insert holiday here]. Who was to know it would ricochet in such a crazy way?"

Speaking of which, I find it quite interesting that in both shooting cases, he hit his victims with ricochets.

[Al T.]

Were the 70s different in terms of gun safety? I know today no one would think of going Mexican Fiesta with their firearms, but was the mentality different back then?

Yes, very much so. My first revolver class, it was recommended that your trigger finger get on the trigger ASAP in order to start that hammer rolling. I think the NRA had something like 26 safety rules, darn near impossible to remember.

Jeff Cooper was the guy who got us going down the right path with the 4 rules and using two hands on the handgun.

[Tamara]

I think the NRA had something like 26 safety rules, darn near impossible to remember.

#1 Never climb a fence with a loaded gun.

#5 Never load your gun until you are ready to shoot skeet.

#23 Never spill your Tom Collins on your Perazzi.

[Hatchetman]

Serious question...

Were the 70s different in terms of gun safety? I know today no one would think of going Mexican Fiesta with their firearms, but was the mentality different back then?

Not according to my first rifle instructor, Mrs. Bishop, who breathed fire and wouldn't let you touch a .22 target rifle unless you could recite the rules, knew nomenclature cold, always demonstrated gun safety, and so on. I don't remember all those rules any longer, but Mrs. Bishop still sits on my shoulder every time I'm around guns.

[Nephrology]

#1 Never climb a fence with a loaded gun.

#5 Never load your gun until you are ready to shoot skeet.

#23 Never spill your Tom Collins on your Perazzi.

#17 Keep those darn kids off your lawn

[gtmtnbiker98]

It has also been revealed that this isn't his first negligent shooting, per a local news article.

http://http://www.chillicothegazette.com/article/20130822/NEWS01/308220004/Ohio-safety-instructor-accused-accidental-shooting-had-earlier-mishap (http://www.chillicothegazette.com/article/20130822/NEWS01/308220004/Ohio-safety-instructor-accused-accidental-shooting-had-earlier-mishap)

[ToddG]

It has also been revealed that this isn't his first negligent shooting, per a local news article.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9249-Ohio-Instructor-ND-s-into-Student-s-Arm&p=155582&viewfull=1#post155582