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Tamara
08-11-2013, 11:22 PM
Ran some Precision Ammunition "Fire Frangible" rounds through the M&P 357 today. What grain weight? Good question; that information wasn't included on the adhesive label on the box flap.

I'm guessing they were light-for-caliber because accuracy was dismal (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/08/frickin-frangibles.html).

NETim
08-12-2013, 04:10 AM
I've seen frangible slugs smack forcing cones and begin the fragmentation process there. Multiple holes appear in the target.

Who needs a Judge? :)

BLR
08-12-2013, 06:37 AM
7yrds is awful short to see inadequate stability.

It is enough to see huge groups (patterns?) due to cg/cm issues.

5pins
08-12-2013, 04:50 PM
We had a real problem with one lot of 5.56 frangible. Broken and backwards loaded projectiles and key holes. I suspect some did not make it down range. The new lot we have seems to be working much better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j079msEYI34/UglXgpHfqNI/AAAAAAAAAAw/A9yX2R6Y2Sw/s640/20130410_154417%2520%25282%2529.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sOE01FCv6kM/UglX3zxQnNI/AAAAAAAAABE/09TxkM8pdSI/s640/20130408_122600.jpg

jetfire
08-12-2013, 05:00 PM
We had a real problem with one lot of 5.56 frangible. Broken and backwards loaded projectiles and key holes. I suspect some did not make it down range. The new lot we have seems to be working much better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j079msEYI34/UglXgpHfqNI/AAAAAAAAAAw/A9yX2R6Y2Sw/s640/20130410_154417%2520%25282%2529.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sOE01FCv6kM/UglX3zxQnNI/AAAAAAAAABE/09TxkM8pdSI/s640/20130408_122600.jpg

Those are fine, they're from Dynamic Tactical's new line of 5.56 wadcutters.

MDS
08-12-2013, 05:10 PM
Those are fine, they're from Dynamic Tactical's new line of 5.56 wadcutters.

I saw some at the LGS, but they wouldn't sell to me because I left my VIPR badge at home.

Rich
08-15-2013, 04:05 AM
Ran some Precision Ammunition "Fire Frangible" rounds through the M&P 357 today. What grain weight? Good question; that information wasn't included on the adhesive label on the box flap.

I'm guessing they were light-for-caliber because accuracy was dismal (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/08/frickin-frangibles.html).


Other than the load above. Has your pistol been grouping well.
I know its a gamble buying the M&P 9mm.

Tamara
08-15-2013, 07:53 AM
Other than the load above. Has your pistol been grouping well.
I know its a gamble buying the M&P 9mm.

You did note that this is an M&P 357 to which I'm referring? In any case, I've only fired the gun at seven yards thus far.

(Of my two M&P 9s, one seems fine and the other is only good for about 8" at 25yds w/std velocity FMJ.)

Chuck Whitlock
08-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Don't know from accuracy, but had a Glock rep tell me that some frangible ammo in use was eroding breechfaces.
We had an instructor transfer in from FLETC whose 23 had a pretty chewed up striker nose, but the breechface was fine.

BLR
08-16-2013, 10:32 AM
Don't know from accuracy, but had a Glock rep tell me that some frangible ammo in use was eroding breechfaces.
We had an instructor transfer in from FLETC whose 23 had a pretty chewed up striker nose, but the breechface was fine.

A butter soft slide, with a super hard but thin finish is the culprit, not the ammo.

Especially the non toxic DDMP priming compounds.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

Chuck Haggard
08-18-2013, 05:58 AM
I'm not sure Bill, I'm hearing a bit more lately about the debris left behind from the lead free priming compounds as being more abrasive than the normal stuff.

While you may be completely correct ref Glocks, if the stuff is more abrasive to Glocks it would stand to reason that it's more abrasive to all guns.


Ref Tam's post; a couple of years ago we burned up several thousand rounds of lead free military 9mm ammo that got donated to us. The bullets were light and thus shot low, accuracy was poor, and recoil was so light that if your grip and stance weren't perfect then you got a for real "limp wrist" stoppage.

BLR
08-18-2013, 06:45 AM
I'm not sure Bill, I'm hearing a bit more lately about the debris left behind from the lead free priming compounds as being more abrasive than the normal stuff.

While you may be completely correct ref Glocks, if the stuff is more abrasive to Glocks it would stand to reason that it's more abrasive to all guns.


Ref Tam's post; a couple of years ago we burned up several thousand rounds of lead free military 9mm ammo that got donated to us. The bullets were light and thus shot low, accuracy was poor, and recoil was so light that if your grip and stance weren't perfect then you got a for real "limp wrist" stoppage.

I have an ongoing argument with a dude at Picatinny over this.

He believes what you have been told. I'm convinced by the circular erosion seen here: http://pistol-training.com/archives/6734
It's obvious that it isn't just particulate/hot gas erosion, but that's a significant bit. And most high round count Glocks have that. At least all the ones I've seen.

Concerning the Glocks vs all guns comment. Actually, if it were simple abrasion, I would expect the Glocks (anything surface hardened) to fare the best. Though I do believe HK, Sig, and S&W through hardened their slides before FCN treatment (I cannot swear to that, so don't put any stock in it).

And truth be told, if I had conclusive/convincing data pointing to the the actual culprit, I wouldn't be arguing with my buddy over that.

DocGKR
08-18-2013, 12:52 PM
I've seen agencies that issue both Glocks and S&W while using lead free primers--the Glocks get badly pitted on the breach face and strikers, the S&W's not so much...

BLR
08-18-2013, 01:13 PM
I've seen agencies that issue both Glocks and S&W while using lead free primers--the Glocks get badly pitted on the breach face and strikers, the S&W's not so much...

Thanks for confirm.