Gen 3 versus Gen 4 Glock triggers

[GJM]

It pains me to say this, because Origami, my wife and Vogel have all said the same thing, and I disregarded it, but I believe a Gen 3 has enough better a trigger (specifically less creepy travel between take up and trigger break than the Gen 4) that the Gen 3 is a better pistol for doing your personal best work, and it is less tiring to shoot over a high round count (because the trigger has less creep to work through).

I think the Gen 4 is fine for personal defense, and I really dig the accuracy, slightly smaller size and texture. However I plain shoot a Gen 3 better.

[JHC]

It pains me to say this, because Origami, my wife and Vogel have all said the same thing, and I disregarded it, but I believe a Gen 3 has enough better a trigger (specifically less creepy travel between take up and trigger break than the Gen 4) that the Gen 3 is a better pistol for doing your personal best work, and it is less tiring to shoot over a high round count (because the trigger has less creep to work through).

I think the Gen 4 is fine for personal defense, and I really dig the accuracy, slightly smaller size and texture. However I plain shoot a Gen 3 better.

LOL I feel your pain man. I've got Gen 3 and Gen 4 copies of 19s and 17s here and I have the same dilemma. Gen 3 trigger vs Gen 4 mechanical accuracy. The two are close. Very close. And one of the Gen 4 17s with 10K rds on it is smoothed out so close to the Gen 3's it is a toss up. It is silly to OCD over the mechanical accuracy margin but I do it all time.

However I take solace in not being able to measure a dramatic difference in drills (ie FAST, El Prez, Bill Drill) from week to week but I can spend way too much time pondering which to shoot in a given match.

OTOH IMO the Gen 4 mag release is hands down better than Gen 3 with the Vickers part. In fact I removed those from my carry Gen 3s for repeated accidental mag drops; my FIST and Milt Sparks holsters don't cover it. But then again how much better? Enough to measure consistently? I can't.

[WDW]

I guess I'm in the minority. I felt the Gen 4 trigger had smoother take up & a cleaner, more crisp break. IDK, I can't really tell much difference between the two. I guess I felt the Gen 3's felt a little mushy in comparison. I don't see myself ever buying a Gen 3 again anyhow. I love that beaver tail the Gen 4's come with now.

[Sam]

Unsatisfactory results with Gen3 trigger bars in a Gen4 frame?

[JV_]

I agree that the trigger is much better on a Gen3, but the reduced grip size and texture still put the Gen4 over a Gen3 - for me.

[Sparks2112]

After shooting sigs for a bit now I'm of the opinion there's no such thing as a GOOD Glock trigger. ;)


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[Kyle Reese]

I agree that the trigger is much better on a Gen3, but the reduced grip size and texture still put the Gen4 over a Gen3 - for me.

Same for me.

[jlw]

Put a Gen4 G19 has a Gen3 trigger bar installed. Other than the fact that this particular Gen3 bar has a sloppy trigger safety everything works fine. I will be swapping it out for another Gen3 bar ASAP.

[JHC]

Unsatisfactory results with Gen3 trigger bars in a Gen4 frame?

Early on Sam, some Glock SME's said "no go" and I've never bothered to try it. Got plenty to swap from. So one of these Gen 4's - my younger son's FDE 19 has just the most hard stop break - very different than the rest. Smyrna guys swapped out all the likely suspect parts and really didn't change it all that much. I'll try that.

[JHC]

I guess I'm in the minority. I felt the Gen 4 trigger had smoother take up & a cleaner, more crisp break. IDK, I can't really tell much difference between the two. I guess I felt the Gen 3's felt a little mushy in comparison. I don't see myself ever buying a Gen 3 again anyhow. I love that beaver tail the Gen 4's come with now.

No you have a point. I'd say I'd agree with that in general; especially with the "dot" connector, on most of the guns I've tried. (Each G being a little unique.) But I'm a puss and even if the pull quality is smooth - I shoot the just a skosh lighter trigger better - most of the time (I'm generally referring to "-" connectors head to head in Gen 3 and 4). I could live with either easily and for drilling, comp, street etc. I could live with the "dot" same deal.

Also I too don't see buying another Gen 3 on the balance.

[GJM]

I am told that the frame is different with the Gen 4, and even with a Gen 3 trigger bar, the trigger will be different in a 4.

[JBP55]

For a range only Glock you have many options to improve the trigger on any generation.

Polish all internal trigger components.

Trigger Bar.
You can polish it.
You can reshape the nose.
You can modify the bar and relocate the trigger shoe.

Connectors.
There are many options.

Trigger housing.
With adjustment for over travel only.
With adjustment for pre travel and over travel.

Springs.
Many options depending on what you like.

Measuring the trigger pull the way Glocks does I have seen a modified Glock trigger measure as low as 1# 6oz. which equals approximately 2# 6oz. at the center of the trigger where a stock Glock is normally in the 6# 8oz. range and they vary. The same trigger assembly may vary several ounces in different Glocks of the same generation.

[pangloss]

I think the difference between individual guns overwhelms the difference between generations. I have a friend that bought a Gen3 G19, and it had absolutely the worst trigger I've ever felt on a Glock. You could literally feel the parts grinding against each other during the trigger pull. The Gen3 G19 he purchased about the same time had a very nice trigger. The difference was dramatic. My early Gen4 G17 seems a little better than average, but I did put a Ghost 3.5 connector in it. I think it's better than my Gen2 pistol with the dot connector.

[GJM]

Specifically, the trigger difference I am referring to (minus connector in both, otherwise stock factory parts) is the amount of travel between take up and the trigger breaking.

While individual pistols vary, the difference I am describing is consistent across a number of Gen 3 and 4 pistols I have.

[Westtexasrancher]

My gen 4 trigger was awful. It's ok now tho with a gen 3 17 trigger/bar and zev tech 3.5/type r spring. My friends gen 3 factory 23 still feels better tho :-/

[pangloss]

Specifically, the trigger difference I am referring to (minus connector in both, otherwise stock factory parts) is the amount of travel between take up and the trigger breaking.

While individual pistols vary, the difference I am describing is consistent across a number of Gen 3 and 4 pistols I have.

Thanks for the clarification. I don't have any minus connectors, so I can't comment directly on pistols with that set up.

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but I think I think the Gen4 trigger bar design is an improvement over the previous generation. The bump on the side of the trigger bar prevents lateral travel of the trigger bar just before the break. If you look through the magwell while dry firing a Gen1-3 pistol, you can see the trigger bar flex from right to left before it breaks. In my Gen2 pistol, the movement is sufficient to cause some rotation in the safety plunger. I think this makes the triggers less crisp. Anyway, I've toyed with the idea of putting Gen4 bars in some of my Gen3 pistols, but I haven't convinced myself that the difference is big enough to worry with it.

[Morbidbattlecry]

So what does the trigger feel like on a Gen4 with a minus connector and 25 cent trigger job? Its the set up i have on my Gen3 gun and i personally like it better then my 1911 trigger.

[ASH556]

So what does the trigger feel like on a Gen4 with a minus connector and 25 cent trigger job? Its the set up i have on my Gen3 gun and i personally like it better then my 1911 trigger.

Sorry for the old bump, but this thread came up in a search on the topic and what's quoted above is what I'd like the answer to. Thanks in advance!

[JHC]

Sorry for the old bump, but this thread came up in a search on the topic and what's quoted above is what I'd like the answer to. Thanks in advance!

I can't say about what a $0.25 trigger job feels like but if it's comparable to a gun with 5-10K rounds through the components, I find them marginally smoother than new. A little I guess. I don't have finely honed trigger senses. I would describe it as a light but firm take up to the "stack" where it breaks the shot. I find the break adequately crisp for slowfire or quick stuff.

I will say that after so many years and a lot of shooting with them, it's more comfortable and familiar and effective for the vast majority of my shooting than my custom 1911's light crisp SA.

Which btw is no longer so light since the hammer started following the slide in reloads so it went back to the builder and at my request came back with a 5 lb trigger instead of sub 4 so it isn't so radically different to my ingrained habits.

[Jaywalker]

I bought GlockTriggers Guardian trigger and am quite happy with it. Because I didn't care for the wall/break in the original trigger, GlockTrigger recommended their "hybrid" trigger for my Gen4 G19, which included the Gen3 trigger bar. Apparently, the non-dimple Gen3 trigger bar can flex, allowing the bar to depress the firing pin safety gradually off-center rather than abruptly right up over the middle. In my experience ("example of one"), that provided me a "rolling break," rather than one with a wall.

ETA: It's about a 5-pound pull. With the variances between individual pieces I would expect variances in performance with different firearms.

[MSparks909]

Sorry for the old bump, but this thread came up in a search on the topic and what's quoted above is what I'd like the answer to. Thanks in advance!

To me, the break with a Gen4 feels more pronounced than on a Gen 3 with the same "-" connector and a polish job.

[Jay Cunningham]

The Gen 4 19 still felt like a staple gun to me after several thousand rounds. The Gen 3 seemed to "smooth out" for me.

[JonInWA]

It's more than just a "Gen 3 triggerbar versus a Gen4 triggerbar"-while I have absolutely zero personal experience with Gen4 triggerbars, other than occasionally firing friend's Gen4s, but with Gen 3 triggerbars, it's important to realize that there are at least two variations, which I term the Gen 3 and the Gen 3.5 triggerbars. The Gen 3.5 triggerbars have 1)a larger coil spring attachment hole (to diminish potential spring fatigue from abrasive or accumulated wear/fatigue at the point of flexation; 2) a triggerbar tail extension, which also incorporates a channel, to also reduce spring fatigue over time. I am uncertain if some of the later production Gen 3.5 triggerbars also incorporated the stabilizing blister at the top of the vertical extension.

Gen 3.5 triggerbars are noted for having a slightly higher triggerpull weight than Gen 3 triggerbars. If I'm running a NY1 spring, I much prefer using the original Gen 3 triggerbars, as the benefits are all towards those utilizing the coil trigger springs, and the negative is the heavier pull weight (in other words, IMO when using a NY1 and a Gen3.5 bar, it's "all pain and no gain").

On top of this, there's often subtle variations from component to component-so if you have an assortment of Glock triggerbars and connectors, you can judiciously tune your trigger pull characteristics through simple part-bin engineering/substitutions.

Best, Jon

Best. Jon

[JBP55]

Even though I have never personally seen a Glock trigger spring break I prefer the late Gen 4 trigger bars because there is less chance of the spring breaking and the bar does not flex or shift as much as the older bars when it rides over the firing pin safety. Some of the late small frame Gen 3 pistols have the same trigger bar design as the Gen 4.

[JonInWA]

Even though I have never personally seen a Glock trigger spring break I prefer the late Gen 4 trigger bars because there is less chance of the spring breaking and the bar does not flex or shift as much as the older bars when it rides over the firing pin safety. Some of the late small frame Gen 3 pistols have the same trigger bar design as the Gen 4.

A very experienced Glock LE Rep and Armorer has told me that he's literally NEVER seen a coil trigger spring break since Glock modified the spring-the post-mod (and current) ones are a dull battleship gray in color (as opposed to the shiny silver of the earlier ones). While I wouldn't go as far to say that it hasn't actually happened someplace in the Glock universe, I think that the odds for years have been very, very slim.

While there are some compelling rationales for going to a NY1 set-up, fragility of the coil spring is no longer one of them in my opinion.

Best, Jon

[SAWBONES]

The standard NY1 and NY2 trigger return springs (that work in compression) make for a very poor trigger pull IME.

Like others here, I've experimented with all the various combinations of Glock-brand "-", standard and "+" connectors with the standard trigger return spring, as well as the standard and "-" connectors with NY1 and NY2 trigger return springs.

On balance, I've always routinely used just the standard coil trigger return spring (that works in extension) with the "-" connector for CCW and training guns, but I'd be interested to hear of the experience of anyone who has perhaps trimmed coils off the NY trigger return spring in an attempt to improve the quality of Glock trigger pull, since a spring that works in compression (NY) is less liable to breakage than one that works in extension, and if a good quality trigger pull could be obtained thereby, it would seem like a worthwhile modification.

[ReverendMeat]

As far as a stock, out of the box Glock goes, I feel no overall difference in the triggers between Gen 3 and Gen 4 pistols. For all newly manufactured Glocks the variation in triggers is gun to gun regardless of being Gen 3 or 4. Gens 1, 2, and earlier 3s may have significant variation (I don't have much experience with them so I won't say one way or another) but if you're looking to buy new the only thing I can suggest is to try the trigger of the gun that is brought out for you, and if you don't like it ask for a different one.

[JBP55]

Where I purchase my Glocks the boxes are sealed and they open the one you purchase after it clears NICS and the serial number is recorded. They do have showroom samples to look at if you do not know Glocks . You do not cut open boxes and try different triggers unless you purchase the pistols first. I clean, lube and polish trigger components before firing the pistol.

[ReverendMeat]

Every store is different (we open the boxes anyway to verify that the serial number on the gun matches the one on the box). And believe me, I'd rather not bring out my entire backstock for somebody to play with until they find the one they liked most, but my point was that the variation in triggers is from gun to gun and not from Gen3 to Gen4.

[JV_]

I feel no overall difference in the triggers between Gen 3 and Gen 4 pistolsAll of my stock Gen3 guns have felt better than all of my Gen4 guns, there's no comparison.

There is certainly gun to gun variation within the same generation too.

[Savage Hands]

There are well documented internal differences of the differences between the Gen 4 Glocks and the older models that do make a difference in terms of the overall weight. To claim it comes to individual gun variation instead of the 4th Generation and the rest is silly. I've owned over a dozen Glocks of various Generations and I've handled well over a hundred Glocks of various Generations this year alone at my buddies shop. Unlike other states, California shops need to handle almost every gun twice as much since we have a Safe Handling demonstration and the ten day wait not including Single Shot Exemption so people can buy handguns not on California's Safe Handgun Roster. I see a moderate amount of variation in both overall triggers and barrel fit between each Glock both in the same Generation and compared to the others.

[joshs]

If it isn't Generation dependent, then I've had very bad luck with every Gen 4 trigger and great luck with Gen 3 triggers. The trigger difference is why I still prefer Gen 3s even though I'm a fan of the Gen 4 mag release and grip texture. I wish Glock would do another run of the Gen 3 RTF guns, but with normal slide serrations because that would fix my biggest problem with the Gen 3.


I see a moderate amount of variation in . . . barrel fit between each Glock both in the same Generation and compared to the others.

Interesting, and possibly could be its own separate discussion, but do you notice generally better barrel fit with the Gen 4s? I certainly got better accuracy from stock Gen 4s than Gen 3s, but I didn't know if it was a function of the new recoil spring setup or a change in the barrel fit.

[JBP55]

The barrel lock up on the Gen 4 Glocks is tighter than the Gen 3 Glocks. The OEM barrel in my Gen 4 G17 locks up better than a new Wilson barrel in the same gun.

[Savage Hands]

On the Sig Forum Bruce Gray posted that he was told by Chris Edwards of GSSF and Glock's Training division that the 4th Generation Glocks had a better fitted barrel. In my experience it seems to be true, especially the Gen 4 G19's that came in recently which had a rock solid barrel fit. Drop in barrels don't seem to help as much with the 4th Generation Glocks and would probably need a fitted barrel to truly benefit them.

[ReverendMeat]

There are well documented internal differences of the differences between the Gen 4 Glocks and the older models that do make a difference in terms of the overall weight. To claim it comes to individual gun variation instead of the 4th Generation and the rest is silly. I've owned over a dozen Glocks of various Generations and I've handled well over a hundred Glocks of various Generations this year alone at my buddies shop..

I know that when I bought my Gen 4 in late 2012 there was definitely a clear difference between the triggers from 4 to Gen 3 (the 3s being obviously superior) but lately - past few months - I can't tell much of a difference anymore. Maybe we've just had a run of bad luck and got a few batches of "made on Friday" guns, I don't know.

Now I kind of have an itch to break out a gauge, renew my Minitab license, and get some actual numbers