Gyros

[BLR]

My initial flight instructor once told me "Never fly in anything where the wings are flying faster than the fuselage itself, as they have a tendency to leave the fuselage behind." :p

Haha! No fun in that!

Open cockpit gyros are awesome! I've got my beady little eyes on a Velocity right now.

[Sparks2112]

Standing offer for you and John - if you guys get together at Sunken Lunken, I'll fly down in the auto-gyro, pick you guys up, and we can shoot at the farm and roast a pig.

Food for thought - I have a 1911 from 9 out of the 10 on the American Handgunner Top 10 list. And multiple copies from a couple.

Hah, glad I didn't put you off too bad at lunch.
Out of curiosity how long of a flight is it from your farm to Lunken, and its off the W.C. Exit on 71 right?




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[Sparks2112]

I have no idea what that is. I'm guessing from other inputs it is some sort of flying contraption? Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. Or you can just let me out at about 15k' and I'll meet you guys on the ground. Little aircraft and big dudes have not been my greatest combination to avoid injury.


Yeah, the point I was getting to was I'm pretty sure the drive up to his place happens pretty fast in my rice burner especially when I have clear visibility.


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[BLR]

Hah, glad I didn't put you off too bad at lunch.
Out of curiosity how long of a flight is it from your farm to Lunken, and its off the W.C. Exit on 71 right?


Ha. I was the one dressed like a bum and enjoying Pacificos.

Lunken to the farm, via gyro is 35min. Don't have a grass strip at the farm, so the gyro allows landing in the pasture field.

I know the gyro wont get you, Sean and me to FL15. It just ain't going to happen.

[Sparks2112]

Ha. I was the one dressed like a bum and enjoying Pacificos.

Lunken to the farm, via gyro is 35min. Don't have a grass strip at the farm, so the gyro allows landing in the pasture field.

I know the gyro wont get you, Sean and me to FL15. It just ain't going to happen.

If it won't offend you, I think I'll just drive. ;) I've found it's hard to die/be injured in small aircraft crashes if you don't, you know, get in small air craft. ;) On a side note check your texts, I asked yah sumpfin. ;)


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[Haraise]

I've found it's hard to die/be injured in small aircraft crashes if you don't, you know, get in small air craft. ;)

*cough*twinengine*cough*

[PPGMD]

*cough*twinengine*cough*

Light twins are great, if one engine goes out the second will surely get you to the scene of the accident.

I remember during one of my engine out flights in the Seminole saying something to the effect of "Maybe if I find a thermal we can gain some altitude."

I'll take a single engined airplane over a light twin everyday, they simply don't have enough excess power to make the added complexity and the greater chance of engine failure worth it.

[BLR]

Light twins are great, if one engine goes out the second will surely get you to the scene of the accident.

I remember during one of my engine out flights in the Seminole saying something to the effect of "Maybe if I find a thermal we can gain some altitude."

I'll take a single engined airplane over a light twin everyday, they simply don't have enough excess power to make the added complexity and the greater chance of engine failure worth it.

Harise is referring to her favored twin: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-vtwin.html

Yeah, I'm surprised a Seminole even made it off the ground - what a dog of a twin. I got my twin instruction in a T42 Cochise! While single engine op was....uh....lack luster, we got a solid 300fpm climb at reasonable alts.

I much, much prefer twins. Fist full of throttles, and all that.

Just for the record - I've come closer to meeting my maker on US68 head on with a soccer mom in an Escalde than I ever have in a light plane. I get more antsy driving, in opposite directions separated by a few feet of air, along someone else who isn't paying attention. Just saying. I'm still on the lookout for a viable aerocar.

[Tamara]

Harise is referring to her favored twin: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-vtwin.html

Oh, look! A poor man's* Starship†!

I'm really surprised‡ that a company that only manufactures twins would be so down on singles in the promotional copy on their website.

*For a given value of "poor man".
†There was a Starship operating out of FTY when I was in the aerial photography biz. I must have twenty pounds of 35mm negatives of that thing, half of which were shot hanging out the window of a 152 on short final or climbout. I had the hots for that plane like you would not believe. Future Is Now! Like a Mateba with wings!
‡Just kidding. I'm not surprised at all.

[PPGMD]

Oh, look! A poor man's* Starship†!

I'm really surprised‡ that a company that only manufactures twins would be so down on singles in the promotional copy on their website.

*For a given value of "poor man".
†There was a Starship operating out of FTY when I was in the aerial photography biz. I must have twenty pounds of 35mm negatives of that thing, half of which were shot hanging out the window of a 152 on short final or climbout. I had the hots for that plane like you would not believe. Future Is Now! Like a Mateba with wings!
‡Just kidding. I'm not surprised at all.

The similarities aren't surprising considering that the Velocity is based Rutan's Long EZ, and the Starship is designed by Rutan's Scaled Composites.

It is really unfortunate that Beech is on a quest to buy and destroy all the Starships.

[Guinnessman]

Harise is referring to her favored twin: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-vtwin.html

Yeah, I'm surprised a Seminole even made it off the ground - what a dog of a twin. I got my twin instruction in a T42 Cochise! While single engine op was....uh....lack luster, we got a solid 300fpm climb at reasonable alts.

I much, much prefer twins. Fist full of throttles, and all that.

Just for the record - I've come closer to meeting my maker on US68 head on with a soccer mom in an Escalde than I ever have in a light plane. I get more antsy driving, in opposite directions separated by a few feet of air, along someone else who isn't paying attention. Just saying. I'm still on the lookout for a viable aerocar.

The Seminole is a good trainer and that's about it. The second engine will only carry you to the crash site.

When I was just a lowly flight instructor, I was able to fly a variety of light twins consisting of Pipers, Cessnas, and Beechcrafts. The Piper Seminole and Beechcraft Duchess were fine trainers, but as for a personal airplane for long trips, the larger Piper Seneca or Cessna 310 are the winners.

I would happily go back to the day I encountered an electrical failure in a Piper Commanche in IMC over following a soccor mom in an Escalade, swerving, with 3 screaming kids in the back, applying lipstick, with a hot latte in her hand. That right there is more deadly than any light twin. :)

[Tamara]

When I was just a lowly flight instructor, I was able to fly a variety of light twins consisting of Pipers, Cessnas, and Beechcrafts. The Piper Seminole and Beechcraft Duchess were fine trainers, but as for a personal airplane for long trips, the larger Piper Seneca or Cessna 310 are the winners.

I'm biased, but I think the later, long-nosed 310s are some of the best-looking GA aircraft evar.

[Guinnessman]

I'm biased, but I think the later, long-nosed 310s are some of the best-looking GA aircraft evar.

I completely agree! It is a shame that Cessna quit making "Real" light twins.

[Sparks2112]

With the amount of control issues I have riding as a passenger in anyone's vehicle, the idea of sitting next to someone while they pilot a plane sounds excruciating to me. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to know me anymore after I had kittens in your cockpit...(phrasing)

[JAD]

Oh, look! A poor man's* Starship†! .
-- Damn you. Now I have to roadtrip to the aviation museum in Wichita. Wichita is un​sound.

[Suvorov]

Light twins are great, if one engine goes out the second will surely get you to the scene of the accident.

I remember during one of my engine out flights in the Seminole saying something to the effect of "Maybe if I find a thermal we can gain some altitude."

I'll take a single engined airplane over a light twin everyday, they simply don't have enough excess power to make the added complexity and the greater chance of engine failure worth it.

This man speaks the truth!

Even with larger turbine powered aircraft, the increased complexity of handling an engine failure and the fact that you are now twice as likely to have one than you would with a single engine airplane, does not guarantee a twin is safer than a single engine. One just has to look at the success of the Pilatus PC-12 and its safety record versus the similar size King Air 200.

I spent my days as a "Freight Puppy" flying the Sierra Nevada's in Navajo's and Chieftains. While certainly not light twins, the basic fact of the matter was that if I had lost an engine right after takeoff in this aircraft, I had no chance of climbing out fast enough to ever return to the field, and that is if I did everything 100% correct in my sleep deprived state. The best I could hope for is to keep the bird upright and aim for a place with the fewest things to hit, no different than had I been in a big single engine bird.

[Suvorov]

Harise is referring to her favored twin: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-vtwin.html

Yeah, I'm surprised a Seminole even made it off the ground - what a dog of a twin. I got my twin instruction in a T42 Cochise! While single engine op was....uh....lack luster, we got a solid 300fpm climb at reasonable alts.

I much, much prefer twins. Fist full of throttles, and all that.

Just for the record - I've come closer to meeting my maker on US68 head on with a soccer mom in an Escalde than I ever have in a light plane. I get more antsy driving, in opposite directions separated by a few feet of air, along someone else who isn't paying attention. Just saying. I'm still on the lookout for a viable aerocar.


Love to see photos of your auto-gyro!

[jetfire]

I'm quite upset this article isn't about greek food.

[JV_]

I'm quite upset this article isn't about greek food.

Me too.

[GJM]

This man speaks the truth!

Even with larger turbine powered aircraft, the increased complexity of handling an engine failure and the fact that you are now twice as likely to have one than you would with a single engine airplane, does not guarantee a twin is safer than a single engine. One just has to look at the success of the Pilatus PC-12 and its safety record versus the similar size King Air 200.

I spent my days as a "Freight Puppy" flying the Sierra Nevada's in Navajo's and Chieftains. While certainly not light twins, the basic fact of the matter was that if I had lost an engine right after takeoff in this aircraft, I had no chance of climbing out fast enough to ever return to the field, and that is if I did everything 100% correct in my sleep deprived state. The best I could hope for is to keep the bird upright and aim for a place with the fewest things to hit, no different than had I been in a big single engine bird.

For a second, I thought I was on one of my aviation forums. Slightly different take on single versus twin. At the light twin level, an engine failure is definitely a big deal, in terms of levers to move, and lack of performance. So much so, when I would go back to FlightSafety for recurrent in the Baron, I always scheduled jet recurrent first, to tune up my scan, as the light twin is so much harder to fly than a jet.

At the King Air 200 level, in which I have about 2,000 flight hours, with auto feather and more power, an engine failure is generally a fly home event. I have a bunch of single engine turbine time (Caravan, PC12, Turbo Beaver) and when the engine quits you are landing right now. Over Kansas on a nice day, no big deal. Over mountains, ocean or at night, and even if you are Chuck Yeager, you are going down. I think the King Air 200 may be the single best propeller plane ever made, and if you can get the job done with a 200, I can't imagine anyone wanting to fly a PC12 or Caravan.

Back to this gyro thing, Bill, seems like a Jet Ranger would be a lot more popular with your friends to go shooting at the farm.

[Sparks2112]

For a second, I thought I was on one of my aviation forums. Slightly different take on single versus twin. At the light twin level, an engine failure is definitely a big deal, in terms of levers to move, and lack of performance. So much so, when I would go back to FlightSafety for recurrent in the Baron, I always scheduled jet recurrent first, to tune up my scan, as the light twin is so much harder to fly than a jet.

At the King Air 200 level, in which I have about 2,000 flight hours, with auto feather and more power, an engine failure is generally a fly home event. I have a bunch of single engine turbine time (Caravan, PC12, Turbo Beaver) and when the engine quits you are landing right now. Over Kansas on a nice day, no big deal. Over mountains, ocean or at night, and even if you are Chuck Yeager, you are going down. I think the King Air 200 may be the single best propeller plane ever made, and if you can get the job done with a 200, I can't imagine anyone wanting to fly a PC12 or Caravan.

Back to this gyro thing, Bill, seems like a Jet Ranger would be a lot more popular with your friends to go shooting at the farm.

I'm not getting on a helicopter. Those things crash for like, no reason...

[GJM]

I'm not getting on a helicopter. Those things crash for like, no reason...

For many years, like for more years than Tam has been alive, the Bell Jet Ranger has had the best safety record of any single engine aircraft -- fixed or rotor wing.

[jetfire]

Me too.

I actually ordered a gyro for lunch because of this.

[NickA]

For many years, like for more years than Tam has been alive, the Bell Jet Ranger has had the best safety record of any single engine aircraft -- fixed or rotor wing.

A friend's son was an engineer at Bell for a few years right out of school. The last project he worked on was building an apparatus to shoot 2x4's into a moving rotor to test some kind of sensor they were developing (of course the board had to be timed just right so the blade would hit it edge on). Pretty neat stuff.

[JV_]

I actually ordered a gyro for lunch because of this.I'll get a lamb kabob tomorrow - it's close enough.

[Sparks2112]

For many years, like for more years than Tam has been alive, the Bell Jet Ranger has had the best safety record of any single engine aircraft -- fixed or rotor wing.

I don't think it has anything to do with the aircraft... ;)

[Tamara]

For many years, like for more years than Tam has been alive, the Bell Jet Ranger has had the best safety record of any single engine aircraft -- fixed or rotor wing.

The helicopters that give me the creeping meemies are the little recip Robinsons. I know that it's because they're simply so common, and so commonly used for training low-time rotor jockeys, that it seems that every helicopter crash you read about is an R-22, but my subconscious still thinks "deathtrap" every time I see one.

When I was working at the aerial photography joint, most of our photography was done with a remote-operated camera on a tethered blimp. Anytime we needed to send a human up, my boss would take all the jobs involving helicopters and leave me the fixed wing stuff because he got airsick orbiting in small planes. Fine with me; I'd rather lean out the window of a circling 152 than stay inside a Robinson. :p

[Nephrology]

Me too.

Make that three.

[Sparks2112]

Make that three.

Kitten, I'm gonna have to eat at the Athenian place down the road tomorrow for lunch...

[Joe in PNG]

One of the things on my Lottery Winnings List is a replica of James Bond's "Little Nellie" from "You Only Live Twice".

Functional rockets and machine guns would be a nice option too.

[jetfire]

I'll get a lamb kabob tomorrow - it's close enough.

Lamb kabob is awesome. I'm a little bummed, the Iraqi joint I ordered from has good food but REALLY slow service.

[JV_]

Lamb kabob is awesome. I'm a little bummed, the Iraqi joint I ordered from has good food but REALLY slow service.

The Afghan place by me, which is awesome, isn't speedy - but you can call it in ahead of time so it's ready when you arrive.

[jetfire]

This thread is now about Mediterranean/Middle Eastern food.

Opinions on Shawarma?

[ToddG]

I actually ordered a gyro for lunch because of this.

Wife and I are at Lebanese Taverna for dinner because of this thread...

[BLR]

The helicopters that give me the creeping meemies are the little recip Robinsons. I know that it's because they're simply so common, and so commonly used for training low-time rotor jockeys, that it seems that every helicopter crash you read about is an R-22, but my subconscious still thinks "deathtrap" every time I see one.

When I was working at the aerial photography joint, most of our photography was done with a remote-operated camera on a tethered blimp. Anytime we needed to send a human up, my boss would take all the jobs involving helicopters and leave me the fixed wing stuff because he got airsick orbiting in small planes. Fine with me; I'd rather lean out the window of a circling 152 than stay inside a Robinson. :p

I did my initial aerobatic training in a 150 Aerobat, finishing in a Decathalon. Fun. Soooooo much fun.

It's not so much "low time" as it is, in my opinion (which is worth absolutely nothing on this subject), the quality/type of instruction. My primary, IFR, and aerobatic/tailwheel training came from WWII era AF pilots who finished their careers doing F105 runs in N. Viet. They weren't afraid of the plane. My commercial, and many of the instructors I've flown with since then, are what I would say, afraid of the plane. I had one "high time" fellow I flew with that was afraid to do a deep stall. No kidding. Far as he would take it was imminent. In a light plane. It aint a stall unless the balls of your feet are on the horizon. Spins aren't even taught for a Private license these days.

The military teaches flying much differently than the gun shy civilian pilots.

[Guinnessman]

I did my initial aerobatic training in a 150 Aerobat, finishing in a Decathalon. Fun. Soooooo much fun.

It's not so much "low time" as it is, in my opinion (which is worth absolutely nothing on this subject), the quality/type of instruction. My primary, IFR, and aerobatic/tailwheel training came from WWII era AF pilots who finished their careers doing F105 runs in N. Viet. They weren't afraid of the plane. My commercial, and many of the instructors I've flown with since then, are what I would say, afraid of the plane. I had one "high time" fellow I flew with that was afraid to do a deep stall. No kidding. Far as he would take it was imminent. In a light plane. It aint a stall unless the balls of your feet are on the horizon. Spins aren't even taught for a Private license these days.

The military teaches flying much differently than the gun shy civilian pilots.

Is this a shooting forum with an aviation problem? I did not realize we had so many aviators on the forum!

Bill,

When I was a flight instructor around 2001-2003 we still taught full stalls. How long ago did you learn? I always loved the look on a students face after a nice surprise spin! Good times.

[BLR]

Is this a shooting forum with an aviation problem? I did not realize we had so many aviators on the forum!

Bill,

When I was a flight instructor around 2001-2003 we still taught full stalls. How long ago did you learn? I always loved the look on a students face after a nice surprise spin! Good times.

Got my private and instrument ticket in 2002 at WPAFB.

Hammerheads are my passion. My little brother is a spin doctor. Older brother is a ANG pilot.

I had an instructor that got the nickname "Fastest Freight Train on Runway 23R" HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Jac]

The helicopters that give me the creeping meemies are the little recip Robinsons. I know that it's because they're simply so common, and so commonly used for training low-time rotor jockeys, that it seems that every helicopter crash you read about is an R-22, but my subconscious still thinks "deathtrap" every time I see one.

It's not *just* that, actually... They have very low rotor mass, which makes things like autorotation a real kitten.

Also: damn you all. I've been busy enough lately to not think about my unfinished PPL. Now the itch is front-and-center again. Especially you, Bill, with your talk of gyros.:mad:

What I'd love to try someday is a tractor gyro...

[BLR]

It's not *just* that, actually... They have very low rotor mass, which makes things like autorotation a real kitten.

Also: damn you all. I've been busy enough lately to not think about my unfinished PPL. Now the itch is front-and-center again. Especially you, Bill, with your talk of gyros.:mad:

What I'd love to try someday is a tractor gyro...

Gyro is cheap, can land at my farm w/o much fuss, easy to fly, and well....FUN!

[Jac]

I've been in love with 'em (from afar) for as long as I can remember...

Got to see Ken Brock do his thing at an airshow once; he sure made it look fun.

[PPGMD]

This thread is now about Mediterranean/Middle Eastern food.

Opinions on Shawarma?

I routinely have Persian food, but that is sort of home cooking for me.


I had one "high time" fellow I flew with that was afraid to do a deep stall. No kidding. Far as he would take it was imminent. In a light plane. It aint a stall unless the balls of your feet are on the horizon. Spins aren't even taught for a Private license these days.

The military teaches flying much differently than the gun shy civilian pilots.

Would you want the typical low time flight instructor teaching spins?

Granted I think the high time fellow was likely from the commercial side, you don't stall an airliner, I've never flown one but from what I hear recovery is highly unlikely without a ton of altitude.

[BLR]

Would you want the typical low time flight instructor teaching spins?

Granted I think the high time fellow was likely from the commercial side, you don't stall an airliner, I've never flown one but from what I hear recovery is highly unlikely without a ton of altitude.

Like I said, it is more complicated than that. I would be willing to bet I am more comfy at unusual attitudes/aerobatics than 99% of the for hire instructors, and I'm only at a little under 300hrs.

But you prefaced it as a "typical" low time inst. So the answer is no. 10,000hrs of approaches is poor preparation for spin instruction though. Just sayin' - it all depends on the type of hours.

[jetfire]

Wife and I are at Lebanese Taverna for dinner because of this thread...

I need to find a Lebanese place out here. We have all of the other middle eastern joints.

[Drang]

Bill's flying machine is not pronounced "au-to-yee-roh." I stand corrected.

h/t Mad Mike Williamson.

[Haraise]

The critique of light twins is usually well founded, but the Velocity V-Twin has some design work arounds to those common issues, which is why it's my favorite one I've seen so far.

Also, Bill in his autogyro:

http://permissiontokill.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nellielarge.jpg

[Joe in PNG]

The critique of light twins is usually well founded, but the Velocity V-Twin has some design work arounds to those common issues, which is why it's my favorite one I've seen so far.

Also, Bill in his autogyro:

http://permissiontokill.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nellielarge.jpg

Yep, that's the one I want. With the machine guns and rocket pods.

[NEPAKevin]

I actually ordered a gyro for lunch because of this.

Ah yup...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UWFuEe4O45A/UfKvZysiYEI/AAAAAAAAAOA/N5VS3XGTZvo/w927-h663-no/gyro.JPG

Olga's Greek Cuisine (http://www.olgasgreekcuisine.com/)

[Bigguy]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UWFuEe4O45A/UfKvZysiYEI/AAAAAAAAAOA/N5VS3XGTZvo/w927-h663-no/gyro.JPG

I assume that is a photo of the resulting clogged heart valves. :rolleyes:

Lord I miss being able to eat what I wanted. I love me some Schlotzsky's pastrami and swiss on rye. (And Chinese buffet, and greasy hamburger and fries, with cheese. And let's not forget beer. And chocolate.) * sigh *
I'm about 15 lbs over my preferred weight, but just can't seem to drop it. I dropped 80 lbs about 5 years ago when the missus and I decided to degrease ourselves.
At current bulk (just a tad over 250 lbs.) I don't think an autogyro could keep me in the air. (Now I'm back on topic.) I occasionally run across a write up about some flying device that you basically strap on.Tip Rocket Propeller (http://www.peroxidepropulsion.com/article/32) Seems like most of them top out at 200 lb payload. DANG! Don't they realize that fat people would like to fly too?

[Tamara]

Ah yup...

I don't know how to break this to you, dude, but someone put red stuff all over your nice gyro. :(

[JV_]

I buy ground sumac in bulk ....

[NEPAKevin]

Lord I miss being able to eat what I wanted.

**sigh** I'm not supposed to either... which is why I got the red stuff because vegetables are healthy.. like the cucumbers in the dressing...
I suppose next time I should get the whole wheat pita with chicken and no sauce... **sigh**

[Magic_Salad0892]

Damn pilots, and your expensive guns, and your nice watches.

[PPGMD]

Damn pilots, and your expensive guns, and your nice watches.

We are all trained in flight school, that the size of our watch has a direct relationship to how great our flying skills are.

[Nephrology]

I had a kafta kebob the other day.... I don't know why I don't eat there every day.

[Tamara]

I had a kafta kebob the other day...

"No bowl! Stick! Stick! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edCigBUKQAY)"

[JDM]

"Mountain Dew, or Crab Juice"

That is probably the single best episode of the Simpsons I can recall seeing. I remember being about 11 and laughing myself to tears throughout that entire episode.

[Erik]

So, how hard is it to learn to fly one of these things anyway?

[NickA]

"Mountain Dew, or Crab Juice"

That is probably the single best episode of the Simpsons I can recall seeing. I remember being about 11 and laughing myself to tears throughout that entire episode.

Same here, though "The Cartridge Family" might be my all time favorite.
Homer: "I felt this incredible surge of power, like God must feel when he's holding a gun."