Reason: Cop against quotas...

[BaiHu]

Gets fired: http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/07/24/how-quotas-pervert-police-priorities-fir

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[secondstoryguy]

People get always get wound up about the quota thing. I'm sure that some isolated departments have a chain of command that is revenue driven but most don't. I would say a fair amount of departments have a given number of contacts you have to make in a day, especially if you are working OT on a federal grant(DUI enforcement/seatbelt enforcement). The number is usually pretty small(8 contacts in a 10-12 hour shift) which might sound like a lot but working traffic its easy to make that many stops in that amount of time. It's typically not required that you give citations when you make stops, even for violations, but they do want to see some hard data and make sure your not sitting under a tree somewhere watching Netflix on your smartphone.

[sl4mdaddy]

I suspect that most of the general public are convinced that all police departments are under quota requirements.
Even though an official 'quota' may not be the policy, most agencies will base your annual review on the amount of 'work' you do.

When I was wearing a badge I was pretty gung-ho for about the first year but then settled into a routine of not writing a summons unless
someone did something pretty crazy. I made traffic stops but usually let the driver go with a warning provided there were no issues with their license status or that of the vehicle.

I stopped this one guy and did write him for 3 different minor issues. After I had explained the second offense he goes, "what, you guys have a quota or something?"

"No Sir, I can write as many tickets as I choose. As a matter of fact, 3 more tickets this month and my Mom gets a blender."

You should have seen the look on his face...

[jlw]

I don't even know where we keep the ticket books.

[Slavex]

JLW, you keep sounding more and more cool. wish you were Chief around here

[MD7305]

I often get asked about quotas when summonsing a driver, usually if its getting close to the end of the month. My agency has no quota. I do however see many agencies make "suggestions" about what's appropriate and what's not in regard to stats.

Reading the article, the Auburn PD allegedly expects 100 contacts a month (tickets, warnings, arrests, field interviews, etc.). Let's say an officer works 14 days a month, that's about 7 actions per day. Make 7 traffic stops and give 7 verbal warnings, done. Heck, with some creative data recording maybe I gave multiple warnings to a single driver. So in a 12 hour shift I'm stopping one car about every two hours. Don't get me wrong, I think quotas are wrong but I despise lazy cops because I've worked with my fair share of dead weight on blue welfare. They come to work, sign on duty and you don't see or hear from them again until they sign off duty 12 hours later. Their monthly stats look like binary code: 01110000000110101! In my opinion, if you're a beat cop and can't observe at least a few violations per shift you either are blessed by the worlds safest drivers of you're not looking. I think agencies need to have standards for performance to ensure that the monies aren't being wasted on lazy cops. I'm sorry but, quotas aside, when I see an article like this I don't so much see "evil police administrator" as I do "lazy cop was going to get canned/punished for being lazy."

[BaiHu]

Thanks for all of your perspectives, it really sheds some light on the subject for a Joe Taxpayer such as myself.

I think what irks me is that quotas seem to be another "hidden tax" to monetize an area that should already be monetized by proper taxation. Somewhere/somehow my tax dollars are going to the wrong place and I'm all for cops doing their job if a) it protects the community, b) it doesn't have to be tied to a monetary penalty (just warning/education stops) and c) aren't made up infractions just to keep the populace on the straight and narrow-especially local cops busting on locals.

Does that make sense?

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[MD7305]

BaiHu, I completely agree. Quotas remove officer discretion and are a numbers game. My only point was that there doesn't have to be THE number but in the end agencies have to use some type of data to evaluate how/what officers are doing. There's a bit of a fine line between the two I guess and it all depends on how an administration approaches the issue.

[BaiHu]

MD,
Completely understood and thanks for clarifying. I totally see it as a business productivity metric gone wrong and that really helps make it seem less obnoxious.

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[jlw]

I once took a class from a Phoenix Police Commander who had just taken over a precinct with 12 murders in the three months prior to his appointment. He went to a community meeting, and he heard plenty about speeding.

It's the number one complaint we receive. It was the biggest complaint generated at my old PD. It's pretty much universal to the business. Folks complain about other people's driving.

I have advertised in the paper where we would be set up for speed detection. I have sent out public alerts. I have put it out on social media. AND we have put up flashing signs that we were conducting speed detection in a given area, and we still wrote an amazing number of tickets considering all of the above.

Quotas? Seriously?


---

I instituted a policy that our supervisors are to randomly pull video from three deputy-citizen contacts per month for review. The supervisors are supposed to document and positively enforce the good things they see as well as deal with any of the safety issues or negative things they see.

If there aren't three videos to pull, that tells a story on its own.

We have a guy who has only made two self-initiated arrests that I can recall, and they were both DUI crashes. However, this deputy regularly generates calls from citizens thanking him for being so helpful when stopping for a stranded motorist or concerned when taking a report or comforting on a bump in the night call, etc. He's doing his job. No, there aren't tickets, arrests, etc, to count, but he is doing his job.

[LittleLebowski]

I love the threads on here discussing LE. I learn a lot and the attitude here is wildly different than other gun forums.

[TCinVA]

People get always get wound up about the quota thing. I'm sure that some isolated departments have a chain of command that is revenue driven but most don't. I would say a fair amount of departments have a given number of contacts you have to make in a day, especially if you are working OT on a federal grant(DUI enforcement/seatbelt enforcement). The number is usually pretty small(8 contacts in a 10-12 hour shift) which might sound like a lot but working traffic its easy to make that many stops in that amount of time. It's typically not required that you give citations when you make stops, even for violations, but they do want to see some hard data and make sure your not sitting under a tree somewhere watching Netflix on your smartphone.

To quote a former Virginia State Trooper:

You have to have some evidence you are doing your job. And while it's not written anywhere that you have to write X number of tickets, if everybody else in the squad wrote X amount of tickets and you aren't within Y% of X, you're going to have a rough time at a performance review. And, sadly, the governor's office (Or, rather some governors) isn't above using the VSP as an instrument of revenue.


I once took a class from a Phoenix Police Commander who had just taken over a precinct with 12 murders in the three months prior to his appointment. He went to a community meeting, and he heard plenty about speeding.

It's the number one complaint we receive. It was the biggest complaint generated at my old PD. It's pretty much universal to the business. Folks complain about other people's driving.

I have advertised in the paper where we would be set up for speed detection. I have sent out public alerts. I have put it out on social media. AND we have put up flashing signs that we were conducting speed detection in a given area, and we still wrote an amazing number of tickets considering all of the above.

Quotas? Seriously?


In my neighborhood a stupid woman campaigned heavily to get more speed enforcement "for the children!!" She was enough of an insufferable nag that the local SO put one of the warning whatsits at the end of the road and then shortly after they set up radar with a deputy. She was one of the people snagged for speeding...and she lost her mind. She's actually on dashcam screaming "I DIDN'T MEAN ME!!!!"....which I think is probably an apt description of the majority of people who complain about other people's driving.

[ford.304]

I think it's one of those things where it's really hard to tell the different from the outside between using *some* kind of metric to tell if people are doing their job, and abusing the system through some kind of quota. People have done similar things in software engineering - trying to base your salary on things like "lines of code written." Which is completely counterproductive, because well-written code is usually shorter, as is more mentally challenging code. But you have to have some way to judge how much work is being done...

Similarly, a really good cop may or may not have to write up many people in a day's work... a good manager will see that. But there are a lot of bad managers in any profession. Biggest thing I learn reading cop threads is that saying "cops do " anything when there are nearly 600,000 different police departments in the country, each with their own management and procedures, isn't particularly useful.

[KeeFus]

and she lost her mind. [/I] She's actually on dashcam screaming "I DIDN'T MEAN ME!!!!"....which I think is probably an apt description of the majority of people who complain about other people's driving.

That's how it generally works. I've seen that happen more than once.

"Warning whatsits" I LOL'ed. We have 2 of those damn things.

On average, I write about 15 tickets a month...but we have no "quota's". I generally try to give out 4 or 5 warning in between. It irks me to no end to see guys writing "fix-it" tickets (registration violations, inspections, etc.) as I think it a waste of the court systems time and a waste of paper. The defendant simply gets the violation fixed and brings the documentation to the court house...case dismissed. Court costs here have gone through the roof from when I first started. They were $55.00 back in the day...now, dependent on the charge, a ticket will run you well over $200.00.

[41magfan]

In my neighborhood a stupid woman campaigned heavily to get more speed enforcement "for the children!!" She was enough of an insufferable nag that the local SO put one of the warning whatsits at the end of the road and then shortly after they set up radar with a deputy. She was one of the people snagged for speeding...and she lost her mind. She's actually on dashcam screaming "I DIDN'T MEAN ME!!!!"....which I think is probably an apt description of the majority of people who complain about other people's driving.

That very thing happened when I was newbie with a brand new radar certification 30 something years ago. My agency head sent word down to work the hell out of “Country Club” Drive for speeders – effectively neutering our normal discretion in traffic enforcement efforts. The first or second ticket I wrote that morning was to the loudest complainer in the neighborhood. I was called-off that assignment before lunch time.

It’s worth noting that if you encounter an officer from an agency that emphasizes traffic enforcement – that would be most State Highway Patrols and/or dedicated Traffic Units – the likelihood of getting cited is through the roof.

If all you can do to justify your existence is write traffic tickets, work MV accidents and make DUI arrest, then most of your “contacts” have to be meaningful in terms of enforcement. In the vast majority of jurisdictions, most real COPS don’t write chicken schit traffic tickets of their own volition.

[KeeFus]

It’s worth noting that if you encounter an officer from an agency that emphasizes traffic enforcement – that would be most Highway Patrols and/or dedicated Traffic Units – the likelihood of getting cited is through the roof.



LOL! I spoke with Caleb at last years IDPA Nationals in Oxford. He stated that he had gotten off course and was going a bit over the speed limit when he passed a deputy...the deputy never even checked up. I told him that the story would have been different if the car had been grey & black.

[41magfan]

LOL! I spoke with Caleb at last years IDPA Nationals in Oxford. He stated that he had gotten off course and was going a bit over the speed limit when he passed a deputy...the deputy never even checked up. I told him that the story would have been different if the car had been grey & black.

North Carolina's "finest" ....... is says so, right there on the tag.

[jlw]

In my neighborhood a stupid woman campaigned heavily to get more speed enforcement "for the children!!" She was enough of an insufferable nag that the local SO put one of the warning whatsits at the end of the road and then shortly after they set up radar with a deputy. She was one of the people snagged for speeding...and she lost her mind. She's actually on dashcam screaming "I DIDN'T MEAN ME!!!!"....which I think is probably an apt description of the majority of people who complain about other people's driving.


That's how it generally works. I've seen that happen more than once.

"Warning whatsits" I LOL'ed. We have 2 of those damn things.

On average, I write about 15 tickets a month...but we have no "quota's". I generally try to give out 4 or 5 warning in between. It irks me to no end to see guys writing "fix-it" tickets (registration violations, inspections, etc.) as I think it a waste of the court systems time and a waste of paper. The defendant simply gets the violation fixed and brings the documentation to the court house...case dismissed. Court costs here have gone through the roof from when I first started. They were $55.00 back in the day...now, dependent on the charge, a ticket will run you well over $200.00.

We had a person complain about a particular stop sign. I forwarded her complaint to Patrol. The shift LT went out there and stopped three cars within a few minutes. One of the cars was driven by the complainant's daughter...

As for the "warning whatsits", I have to say that when I was with the PD, I hated the blasted thing and thought it was a waste of money. Now, its the first thing we do in response to complaints, and the public views it as a positive approach. We will go so far as to do speed studies in areas where there are heavy complaints and publish the studies. Combine that with the above mentioned ad campaigns, and the consensus in our county is that if a person gets a speeding ticket then they earned it.

[Drang]

I think it's one of those things where it's really hard to tell the different from the outside between using *some* kind of metric to tell if people are doing their job, and abusing the system through some kind of quota. People have done similar things in software engineering - trying to base your salary on things like "lines of code written." Which is completely counterproductive, because well-written code is usually shorter, as is more mentally challenging code. But you have to have some way to judge how much work is being done...

Similarly, a really good cop may or may not have to write up many people in a day's work... a good manager will see that. But there are a lot of bad managers in any profession. Biggest thing I learn reading cop threads is that saying "cops do " anything when there are nearly 600,000 different police departments in the country, each with their own management and procedures, isn't particularly useful.

I believe the word you want is not "manager", it's "leader."

Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.

Peter Drucker (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/p/peterdruck131069.html)
That quote is also floating around with "efficiency" subbing for "management", and "effectiveness" for "leadership."
There are a lot of quotes on the Peter Drucker (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/peter_drucker.html) page that might apply.