Yeager........sigh

[SofaKingTactical]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1om9rx46mE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUrvIzy2P3A0ur1CQ_S8LK3A
It's all fun and games until someone takes a round in the back of their head.

http://images.wikia.com/glee/images/5/52/Double-facepalm.jpg

[BaiHu]

My favorite part is the ending when the guy yells, "MURICA!"

Questions for the SMEs:

Is it safe to run two sets of room clearing teams on a facility like that?

If so, are those walls wood with steel in them for back stopping each room??

If not, then am I mistaken and they were all using sims??

Curiously assuming :confused:

[SofaKingTactical]

I don't know the construction of the shoot house, but I do know they're not using simunition. Not sure if they're using frangible.

[Corey]

To borrow a theme (and a neologism) from Tam, It's just fantasy swat camp for chiropodists who are living more dangerously than they are aware of while they have their fun. Eventually it will hurt all of us when the 60 Minutes types get hold of it.

[rsa-otc]

My favorite part is the ending when the guy yells, "MURICA!"

Questions for the SMEs:

Is it safe to run two sets of room clearing teams on a facility like that?

If so, are those walls wood with steel in them for back stopping each room??

If not, then am I mistaken and they were all using sims??

Curiously assuming :confused:

I have seen the target standards backed with heavy steel, and then the use of frangible ammo. All's good as long as you hit the targets. The walls of that facility is made of heavy timbers, may not get many rounds that go through the walls as is.

[PT Doc]

No Pave Hawks for extraction? LZ was too hot, I suppose. Didn't seem to have any trouble filling a lot of class spots. Figure he charged AT LEAST 600 bucks for the class. You do the math.

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk 2

[TCinVA]

Sean wrote something (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3939&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=training-safety-reaction-vs-prevention&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews) that would be a worthwhile read about now.

[BaiHu]

Thanks for posting the MSW piece, TC and thanks for writing it, Sean.

As a high drag, low loping, semi-biped learning to shoot better, I'd be fooling myself if I said I would be comfortable with that type of training.

If those guys already had a good foundation of military training (I don't have enough tacti-knowledge to know from that video) and were upping the ante of their training, then I'd be cool with that. However, if those were a bunch of guys around my skill set +/-, then I'd be scared kittenless to be moving around guys like that in a kill house.

Love to hear what more SMEs have to say, b/c I know I'm ASSuming a lot.

[SofaKingTactical]

Thanks for posting the MSW piece, TC and thanks for writing it, Sean.

As a high drag, low loping, semi-biped learning to shoot better, I'd be fooling myself if I said I would be comfortable with that type of training.

If those guys already had a good foundation of military training (I don't have enough tacti-knowledge to know from that video) and were upping the ante of their training, then I'd be cool with that. However, if those were a bunch of guys around my skill set +/-, then I'd be scared kittenless to be moving around guys like that in a kill house.

Love to hear what more SMEs have to say, b/c I know I'm ASSuming a lot.

I'm not an SME. I'm in the same boat as you, Bai. I know a couple of guys in that video, and I would not feel comfortable being inside a shoot house with them. Nor would I feel comfortable going through a shoot house with a bunch of guys that I haven't trained with before. Actually, come to think of it, I wouldn't feel comfortable in a shoot house, period.

[John Ralston]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1om9rx46mE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUrvIzy2P3A0ur1CQ_S8LK3A
It's all fun and games until someone takes a round in the back of their head.


Assume you are talking about the guy with what appears to be a KRISS muzzling the first couple guys through the door @ 1:00 or so... No thanks.

[rsa-otc]

I have seen the target standards backed with heavy steel, and then the use of frangible ammo. All's good as long as you hit the targets. The walls of that facility is made of heavy timbers, may not get many rounds that go through the walls as is.

Having more time to review the video the target standards are boxes with armor steel backing and the students are using frangible ammo. You can see the sparks off the standards with bullet strikes as well as the frangible bullet dust coming out from below the standard in some scenes.

[BaiHu]

Assume you are talking about the guy with what appears to be a KRISS muzzling the first couple guys through the door @ 1:00 or so... No thanks.

Yup! There's a muzzling later by a guy on the right of a door muzzling the team across the doorway on the left of the door. He catches it, but...heebiejeebies, Scoob!

ETA: Thanks for the due diligence there RSA!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[karmapolice]

what a bag full of d......'s :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jlw]

Are the guys in the video contractors training before going overseas, or is it a group of folks at Fantasy SWAT Camp?

[EPF]

It's a little known fact that they actually listen to that epic music during the course, and it was not a video soundtrack. :eek:

[Jason F]

Frangible ammo or not, I wouldn't be the guy hanging out in the room they're storming and clearing at 00:51. Hard to tell if he's wearing plates under that shirt, but holy crap Batman, you're asking to catch a round that way.

[Ed L]

Yes, but have they figured out a way to have the photographer downrange in the shoothouse as they do in their regular classes:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange_zps9df2c649.jpg

As shown 18 seconds into this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY8S4Woh4pQ

[Jason F]

Yes, but have they figured out a way to have the photographer downrange in the shoothouse as they do in their regular classes:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange_zps9df2c649.jpg

As shown 18 seconds into this video:
...

I'm sorry, but that's just dumb. It's dangerous enough to be there if you're fully kitted up with plates, helmet, etc. That dude has nothing it looks like. All it takes is one silly ricochet off a rock or something in that berm, and bam, you've got a hole that God didn't give you at birth.

Ugh.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I love the warrior fantasy camps, especially on YouTube. SMH

[pangloss]

Yes, but have they figured out a way to have the photographer downrange in the shoothouse as they do in their regular classes:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange_zps9df2c649.jpg



Tripods must cost way more than I would have guessed.

[BaiHu]

Tripods must cost way more than I would have guessed.

Ouch! FTW!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[LHS]

Yes, but have they figured out a way to have the photographer downrange in the shoothouse as they do in their regular classes:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange_zps9df2c649.jpg

As shown 18 seconds into this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY8S4Woh4pQ

Not to mention... why put an AFG on the gun if you're just going to grip the magazine like a noob?

That guy should have his Mountaineers hat confiscated. He's giving us all a bad name.

[Tamara]

Are the guys in the video contractors training before going overseas, or is it a group of folks at Fantasy SWAT Camp?

None of the guys I've known who've been to high-risk contractor classes have gone on to sign up for any contracts that involve risks higher than a paper cut. I'm sure some guys who take them go on to contractor gigs overseas, but everybody I personally know who's been there is currently using their skill at Australian peels to get another Red Bull from the break room before the shift supervisor wanders past.

(Of course, I can't even do an Australian peel to get a Red Bull, so I guess it's good that I hate the taste of the stuff. :o )

[Tamara]

Not to mention... why put an AFG on the gun if you're just going to grip the magazine like a noob?

John Frum have AFG on thunder stick.

[LHS]

John Frum have AFG on thunder stick.

Wow. That was an interesting wikipedia article.

[BLR]

Just curious -

Why are so few of the tactical instructors behaving, as I would describe, "professionally?"

Want me to respect you? Act professionally.

Want me to dismiss you? Put up a youtube video like that.

[Tamara]

Why are so few of the tactical instructors behaving, as I would describe, "professionally?"

What percentage would you say are not?

[BLR]

What percentage would you say are not?

Of a whole? I wouldn't be able to say.

Above a certain level of notoriety/celebrity? Such as Vickers, Hackathorn, Yeager, Pincus, Rogers, Macnamera, et. al.? Of those, I'd say less than 1/4th.

[Tamara]

You realize that the "tactical instructor" thing is, to not only the non-gun-owning public but also to the broader non-gun-school-attending community of firearms owners, a distinction without a difference?

Louis is Gabe and Chris is Todd and Clint is James and Mas is Rob and Ken is Pat and we are all together, koo-koo-ka-choo.

Tell somebody you took API 250 or AFHF or MAG 40 and they'll think you were doing room clearing with an M4gery. The guys with the loudest YouTube channels have become the face of firearms training to the broader gun-owning community.

[ToddG]

Why are so few of the tactical instructors behaving, as I would describe, "professionally?"

I don't think it's fair to paint the instructor community with such a broad brush. If I go down the list of people I've taken classes from, I see one (maybe two) out of forty or so instructors who've had some kind of public melt down or self-inflicted embarrassment. A couple of recent high-profile moments -- just as with spree killings -- don't represent the community or profession as a whole.

[LittleLebowski]

I think that's fxhummel shooting.


Yes, but have they figured out a way to have the photographer downrange in the shoothouse as they do in their regular classes:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/Tactical-Response-Photographer-Downrange_zps9df2c649.jpg

As shown 18 seconds into this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY8S4Woh4pQ

[Tamara]

I think that's fxhummel shooting.

It is.

[BLR]

I don't think it's fair to paint the instructor community with such a broad brush. If I go down the list of people I've taken classes from, I see one (maybe two) out of forty or so instructors who've had some kind of public melt down or self-inflicted embarrassment. A couple of recent high-profile moments -- just as with spree killings -- don't represent the community or profession as a whole.

Maybe it wasn't fair, or even a little excessive. Though, I was not referring to the latest bout of internet drama.

So let me rephrase my statement. I, as a consumer, see a trend away from the professional demeanor I want to see in someone who I will be on record as having trained with to that of a more personality driven - drama based instructor. Here is why it matters: Lets say I took a class from Jimmy. He's said some VERY dubious things on youtube. That'll be around forever. Now lets say I get held up by a meth-head on my way into work (Wilmington has a few) and defend myself. Prosecution finds out I took a class from Jimmy. They proceed to show Jimmy's videos to the jury where he goes off the deep end on some rant about gun rights or self defense or whatever. I can't imagine that would help me in any situation. Now if I take a class from Rogers/Smith/Cooper/Ayoob, videos and online presence are professional, clean cut/shaven, and so on, that will help. Jimmy might, and likely does, have things I could learn from. However, association with that type of personality doesn't help as much as potentially hurt.

Along those lines, perhaps I am a poor student/customer, when I hear phrases like "big boy," "1911s/Glocks/etc suck," excessive cursing, outlandish claims without proof, or the like, I tune the person out.

[ToddG]

Prosecution finds out I took a class from Jimmy. They proceed to show Jimmy's videos to the jury where he goes off the deep end on some rant about gun rights or self defense or whatever.

How is a video that Yeager made outside of class in any way relevant to your decision to use lethal force or even the training you received from Yeager? If I get on YouTube tomorrow and start ranting kill all the Eskimos! that might make me a total nutter, but it doesn't suddenly make every student I've ever taught an anti-Inuite.


Along those lines, perhaps I am a poor student/customer, when I hear phrases like "big boy," "1911s/Glocks/etc suck," excessive cursing, outlandish claims without proof, or the like, I tune the person out.

No argument there and that is absolutely your right. Yeager happens to run a very successful business with a lot of very satisfied customers... he clearly touches a certain segment of the market. You're not in that segment.

[BLR]

How is a video that Yeager made outside of class in any way relevant to your decision to use lethal force or even the training you received from Yeager? If I get on YouTube tomorrow and start ranting kill all the Eskimos! that might make me a total nutter, but it doesn't suddenly make every student I've ever taught an anti-Inuite.


It shouldn't. But I can just see, post GZ vs TM, that being used effectively against me by a liberal leaning prosecution and press. Prosecution: "His training lead him to go out hunting for XYZ, being hyper aggressive. All the dead meth-head wanted was spare change. Just watch this video..."

It may be effectively countered, sure. But countering that might also cost me $20k for additional pro-witness/legal fees. So my $300 2-day Training with Jimmy class just cost me $20.3k.

Would I think "less" of a Jimmy student? Probably not, but I wouldn't think the same of a Jimmy student as compared with a, for example only, Gunsite student.

ETA: I also look at instructors that I would want to take the stand for me. As such, I present myself to them as someone they would want to do that for. Would you want Jimmy on the stand in your defense?

[Tamara]

Now if I take a class from Rogers/Smith/Cooper/Ayoob...

...and literally dozens more.

In fact, I can only think of three or four that fall into the other category of which you speak.

You are perpetuating the stereotype, also common amongst the un-schooled in the comments section of my blog, that "gun school = unsafe behavior with carbines in a shoothouse". They don't see any difference between TR and TR. To them it's all wannabe commando class.

One notch beyond that is the guy who's been to one or two Modern Technique schools (or, worse, been to just one, but a whole bunch of times) who equates anything that's not from his chosen dojo/guru as wannabe commando class.

(I'd avoid subpoenaing Cooper. He stinks as a witness. *ba-dum-tish*)

[41magfan]

Guilt by association may be illogical and it may not pass muster in many admissible evidence arguments, but it matters just about everywhere else.

In this day and age, anyone that would train with controversial figure is a fool. There are simply too many other choices and the "colorful" folks offer absolutely NOTHING unique unless their views serve to stroke you're own ego.

A class picture with everyone doing the middle-finger wave should really impress the potential jury pool.

[Tamara]

There are simply too many other choices and the "colorful" folks offer absolutely NOTHING unique...

This is absolutely my opinion.

There are enough people out there teaching very good stuff that using "How will this guy look in a suit and tie on the witness stand?" as your tiebreaker is perfectly legitimate.

[BLR]

...and literally dozens more.

In fact, I can only think of three or four that fall into the other category of which you speak.

You are perpetuating the stereotype, also common amongst the un-schooled in the comments section of my blog, that "gun school = unsafe behavior with carbines in a shoothouse". They don't see any difference between TR and TR. To them it's all wannabe commando class.

One notch beyond that is the guy who's been to one or two Modern Technique schools (or, worse, been to just one, but a whole bunch of times) who equates anything that's not from his chosen dojo/guru as wannabe commando class.

(I'd avoid subpoenaing Cooper. He stinks as a witness. *ba-dum-tish*)

I'd think you'd be able to come up with a few more perusing youtube.

That said, I don't think I am perpetuating anything. My opinion in the training/firearms/etc industry means less than the electrons used in typing this.

I would argue that the trainers offering up the onslaught on youtube would be the ones perpetuating the stereotype.

Though, I find stereotypes to often work :D

[Tamara]

I'd think you'd be able to come up with a few more perusing youtube.

I mean big name, nationally-known trainers. The Charge of the 300 doesn't count. (Tangentially, PDB's handy BS detection checklist in this post (http://www.papadeltabravo.com/blog/?p=1221) is a winner, IMHO.)

[SofaKingTactical]

Maybe it wasn't fair, or even a little excessive. Though, I was not referring to the latest bout of internet drama.

So let me rephrase my statement. I, as a consumer, see a trend away from the professional demeanor I want to see in someone who I will be on record as having trained with to that of a more personality driven - drama based instructor. Here is why it matters: Lets say I took a class from Jimmy. He's said some VERY dubious things on youtube. That'll be around forever. Now lets say I get held up by a meth-head on my way into work (Wilmington has a few) and defend myself. Prosecution finds out I took a class from Jimmy. They proceed to show Jimmy's videos to the jury where he goes off the deep end on some rant about gun rights or self defense or whatever. I can't imagine that would help me in any situation. Now if I take a class from Rogers/Smith/Cooper/Ayoob, videos and online presence are professional, clean cut/shaven, and so on, that will help. Jimmy might, and likely does, have things I could learn from. However, association with that type of personality doesn't help as much as potentially hurt.

Along those lines, perhaps I am a poor student/customer, when I hear phrases like "big boy," "1911s/Glocks/etc suck," excessive cursing, outlandish claims without proof, or the like, I tune the person out.


You're posts on boards like these would be more damning to you than taking a class from Jimmy. Just sayin'. Classes, active participation in a 'tactical firearms message board', etc. a prosecutor would have no problem spinning a story based on our training and things that we've said in message boards like these.

[SofaKingTactical]

He also offers firearms training.

Kind of....

[BLR]

You're posts on boards like these would be more damning to you than taking a class from Jimmy. Just sayin'. Classes, active participation in a 'tactical firearms message board', etc. a prosecutor would have no problem spinning a story based on our training and things that we've said in message boards like these.

I disagree. I can point to multiple people on this board, and the few others that I visit, and show that the ones I listen to are:
1. Respectable
2. Knowledgeable
3. Professional
4. Experienced (and recognized as such)

As for tactical firearms boards, I visit this site for self defense/legal insight (Todd, Mitchell, jlw, et al). I visit here for firearms proficiency (Todd, Sean, Gary, et al). I have the less than professional few on my ignore list. None of these people are flawless, nor the final say in anything. But listening and interacting does have the effect of demonstrating that I take carrying a handgun seriously, and shows a desire to learn and become proficient.

I have clearly articulable reasons to be here.

I don't think I could articulate why I would take a class from someone who, one could argue, called for some form of revolution over gun control. I just simply do not want that associated with me in any capacity.

[BaiHu]

I concur with Bill and other than links or boards respectable members suggest (gunnuts, msw, etc), I stay on here 95% of the time and then TPI or HKpro the other 5%. Luckily most of the people on the latter are already here.

[jlw]

"We'll behaved women rarely make history."

i saw the above on a bumper sticker once, and it is appropriate here. Have you ever seen folks concerned about a connection being made between them and Tom Givens? Speaks volumes....

[Lon]

I took a class from James in 2008. Fighting Rifle. I used to spend time on his forum - GOTX, But I don't spend time there any longer. As far the class goes, I can honestly say that in my class I don't remember any safety issues whatsoever. I did take away a couple of things from the class. Other things he had us do in class I didn't do after class because I disagreed with the concept. He did; however, articulate his reasoning for doing things his way very well. He is very articulate when he wants to be.

Controversy sells.

[Tamara]

Controversy sells.

YouTube views pay. Directly.

[t1tan]

I'm always sad when I go to YouTube and it has suggestions for me filled with Yeager. I don't understand what I did to deserve this... :confused:

[justintime]

I'm always sad when I go to YouTube and it has suggestions for me filled with Yeager. I don't understand what I did to deserve this... :confused:

because squidward

[PPGMD]

YouTube views pay. Directly.

And even when they didn't directly, people see the video and visit the website. If even 0.1% of 100,000 hits turns into a student that is still 100 students even assuming they only take one class you are talking about $40,000 in tuition.

Take a quick look at this channel (not even remotely scientific), on average his informational videos get 20-40k views, with his more promotional videos getting less than 10k, while his controversial videos (like 1911s suck) get 200k-400k with the related videos to the controversial video trailing off but still higher than his informational view count. So people may not like it but those controversial videos pay off for him, though even he admits that the "Pack you bags" video was wrong because he went off the cuff before the entirety of the facts of the executive order were in.

[Chuck Haggard]

One of the points many of the name instructors will make is the ability to testify if need be on what they have trained. A guy like Mas, or Todd, or Tom Givens, Kyle Lamb, Paul Howe, etc. will be good for your case, other dudes not so much.

I had a similar conversation with a guy on our local CCW board, he being a true devotee of Gabe Suarez. When I pointed out that there might be a problem with his instructor being a convicted fraud and seen by the courts as an unreliable witness, he thought it a good plan to continue to train with Suarez but hire Ayood as an expert witness if need be.

I think his plan has some holes in the logic.

[Slavex]

I think a lot of people missed the point of this particular post lol


He also offers firearms training.

[BobM]

Now lets say I get held up by a meth-head on my way into work (Wilmington has a few) and defend myself. .

Haha! More than a few, but heroin is the drug du jour around here now. I'm pretty confident the prosecutor here will be supportive of a citizen self defense shooting.

[Ed L]

I had a similar conversation with a guy on our local CCW board, he being a true devotee of Gabe Suarez. When I pointed out that there might be a problem with his instructor being a convicted fraud and seen by the courts as an unreliable witness, he thought it a good plan to continue to train with Suarez but hire Ayood as an expert witness if need be.

I think his plan has some holes in the logic.

Well he could train with Ayoob and then Ayoob would be a material witness. Ayoob has explained this himself that he will be a material witness for anyone he trains. This means you have to pay his airfare and board, but no expert witness fees.

The guy on your CCW board could also make a trip to train with Darryl & Wayne, or Tom Givens when he comes to Oklahoma.

How much training with Suarez will hurt him, I don't know. Are we saying that the association will hurt him or that what Suarez is teaching might get him in legal trouble. I am not familiar enough with what Suarez is now teaching to comment.

I did take a class with Suarez in 2003 & a class with Yeager in 2006. I am not a fan of either of the two, especially the latter. Should I make some public declaration of this someplace in case I get involved in a situation and some prosecutor tries to use the fact that I trained with them against me? (I have no idea which smilie or emotioncom to use here). I somehow don't think my training with either of the two would be an issue in any future conflict I might get involved with.

[Chuck Haggard]

Well he could train with Ayoob and then Ayoob would be a material witness. Ayoob has explained this himself that he will be a material witness for anyone he trains. This means you have to pay his airfare and board, but no expert witness fees.

The guy on your CCW board could also make a trip to train with Darryl & Wayne, or Tom Givens when he comes to Oklahoma.

How much training with Suarez will hurt him, I don't know. Are we saying that the association will hurt him or that what Suarez is teaching might get him in legal trouble. I am not familiar enough with what Suarez is now teaching to comment.

I did take a class with Suarez in 2003 & a class with Yeager in 2006. I am not a fan of either of the two, especially the latter. Should I make some public declaration of this someplace in case I get involved in a situation and some prosecutor tries to use the fact that I trained with them against me? (I have no idea which smilie or emotioncom to use here). I somehow don't think my training with either of the two would be an issue in any future conflict I might get involved with.

Yup, I got the first part, was kind of my point, that and the issue of trying to use Suarez to testify in court as to the validity of the training offered to his students. IT doesn't matter if Suarez is in fact teaching valid stuff or not, and I have my own opinions on that, but what does matter is that he is a convicted fraud and thus would be worthless in court.
I would guess if your chosen instructor is prone to crazy rants on YouTube then there may also be issues there as well.

[Ed L]

I would guess if your chosen instructor is prone to crazy rants on YouTube then there may also be issues there as well.

Oh, he is sooo not my chosen instructor. I left the class thinking that one upside to antigun measures would be that they would hurt Yeager. This was in 2006.

[Chuck Haggard]

Oh, he is sooo not my chosen instructor. I left the class thinking that one upside to antigun measures would be that they would hurt Yeager. This was in 2006.

I meant that as more of an editorial "your", not you specifically. Just to clarify.

[Ed L]

I know. But I just had to make sure to clarify myself.

[Chuck Haggard]

Starting in court locally for our own guys, and having testified in both state and federal court as a paid expert witness, I can tell you the lawyers go after you with knives. If you have a weakness in your background they will find it.

If I were to train with a instructor who was..... colorful or flamboyant, I would certainly have training from someone else who can stand up in court.

Easy to defend you trained with Suarez out of curiosity just because he trains an AK specific class if you also have an LFI/MAG and Tom Givens class in your training file to back up your decision to use deadly force during a car jacking attempt.

[Slavex]

Not sure how it works down in the USA, but a fraud conviction would mean nothing up here if a person was being asked to give evidence on an area they were an expert (or so called expert) in, unless the fraud was related to that expertise.

[Chuck Haggard]

Here it goes to the honesty of the person and how believable a witness they are.

An example would be if you are a cop and you have something that will pop up as "Brady material" then your career is basically over because you are worthless to an agency as far as going to court.

[shattuck]

I think a lot of people missed the point of this particular post lol

Oh no I chuckled inside


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[ToddG]

Not sure how it works down in the USA, but a fraud conviction would mean nothing up here if a person was being asked to give evidence on an area they were an expert (or so called expert) in, unless the fraud was related to that expertise.

Because fraud is material to a witness's reputation for truthfulness it will generally be admissible.

[Slavex]

don't you guys have rehabilitation down there? lol. Or is it, once convicted, always a con? If so, that's a lot different than up here, at least in my limited experience.

[TCinVA]

don't you guys have rehabilitation down there? lol. Or is it, once convicted, always a con? If so, that's a lot different than up here, at least in my limited experience.

One's credibility is always fair game in court.

[BLR]

One's credibility is always fair game in court.

Including lifestyle - drinking, swearing in public (ie, on the internets), pictures, etc.

Everything is now forever kids.

[Ed L]

I took another look at the video that appears in the first post of this thread, looking for the photographer downrange the way one would examine a 'where's Waldo' picture.

Sure enough at 1:19 you can see a photographer kneeling in a room in which they have just made a shooting entry.

Someone needs to do a remix of the Yeager Shoothouse video synced to the song "It's Raining Men."

Regarding Suarez, he discusses his situation in a video. He does mention the situation and how it got him in trouble from his perspective. Then he describes how he was in his car with his guns heading out to exact vengeance on his accusers, but heard God's voice God's voice telling him to pray which stopped him.

Far be it from me to deny someone their Paul on the road to Damascus experience, but I don't think it is a good idea to post about how you set out to commit pre-meditated murder on law enforcement officers.

He starts to talk about it at about the 2 minute mark in the youtube video linked below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaKgjDpcQMU

[Ed L]

Including lifestyle - drinking, swearing in public (ie, on the internets), pictures, etc.

Everything is now forever kids.

But it seems in this day and age with Facebook, youtube, reality TV, and popular culture, the bar for stupidity and unacceptable behavior has been raised (or lowered--depending on your perspective).

For gosh sake we have NYC mayoral candidates repeatedly stepping on their dicks, teen moms getting their own reality shows and then going on to make porn films, and Kardashians doing whatever it is Kardashians do.

[Kyle Reese]

But it seems in this day and age with Facebook, youtube, reality TV, and popular culture, the bar for stupidity and unacceptable behavior has been raised (or lowered--depending on your perspective).

For gosh sake we have NYC mayoral candidates repeatedly stepping on their dicks, teen moms getting their own reality shows and then going on to make porn films, and Kardashians doing whatever it is Kardashians do.

We live in the era of the low information voter. Generally, the sort of folks who slavishly follow pop culture trends, watch 2 hours of "reality" television a night and get their news from TMZ don't really follow the important issues facing the nation.

[Tamara]

If those guys already had a good foundation of military training (I don't have enough tacti-knowledge to know from that video)...

I finally watched the vid. The fact that one of those kittenclowns stacked on a door was waving a kittening KRISS Vector around and muzzling the kitten out of people with it should tell you everything you need to know about that class in one awesome crystallized instant of fail.

You know what's great about Call Of Duty? When you push the wrong button you won't spatter some other student's brains all over the wall for realz, yo.

EDITED TO ADD: This is going to segue into my rant about the guys who have 200 hours of MOLLE-encrusted carbine class with a pimped M4gery and a stippled G-lock in a Safariland drop-leg and go through their day to day life with a pocket-carried LCP they haven't fired in six months. It's a free country and all, but I just don't get that. Back in the good old days the joke was about the person who carried a J-frame or LW Commander IWB day-to-day but did all their Gun Skool with a 5" steel gun in a Galco Gunsite Training Holster, but this takes that meme and cranks it to eleven.

[Clyde from Carolina]

I finally watched the vid. The fact that one of those kittenclowns stacked on a door was waving a kittening KRISS Vector around and muzzling the kitten out of people with it should tell you everything you need to know about that class in one awesome crystallized instant of fail.

You know what's great about Call Of Duty? When you push the wrong button you won't spatter some other student's brains all over the wall for realz, yo.

EDITED TO ADD: This is going to segue into my rant about the guys who have 200 hours of MOLLE-encrusted carbine class with a pimped M4gery and a stippled G-lock in a Safariland drop-leg and go through their day to day life with a pocket-carried LCP they haven't fired in six months. It's a free country and all, but I just don't get that. Back in the good old days the joke was about the person who carried a J-frame or LW Commander IWB day-to-day but did all their Gun Skool with a 5" steel gun in a Galco Gunsite Training Holster, but this takes that meme and cranks it to eleven.


Well said.

[ARonBoard]

Can this dude do anything right? He seems like a tweaker gone instructor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Corey]

Back in the good old days the joke was about the person who carried a J-frame or LW Commander IWB day-to-day but did all their Gun Skool with a 5" steel gun in a Galco Gunsite Training Holster, but this takes that meme and cranks it to eleven.

Quit making me feel old, I lived through those days. In my defense, a 5" steel gun in a Galco Gunsite actually was my EDC.:cool:

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I occasionally try to explain to people that I can personally remember a time when to be taken seriously, you had to have a series 70 with the action slicked up a bit and "throating" to feed Hydrashocks or possibly even Glasers.

Any other gun meant you were either European or...adventurous.


This really wasn't that long ago, either, as I explained to a coworker not long ago.

"Maybe 93 or 4," I said.

"That's before I was born," he said.

I reached for my Series 70, but I threw my back out before I could finish the draw.





Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

[TCinVA]

I reached for my Series 70, but I threw my back out before I could finish the draw.


OW, right in my dignity!

[Tamara]

1668

To be completely fair, I went back and checked and it does say "High Risk" right on the box... :o

[TCinVA]

Jesus...

See, that's why I'm not keen to find my way back into a shoothouse. Sure, I've done a little bit of it, but under much more tightly controlled circumstances and even then I went up to Jay Cunningham in the Ohio darkness and said "I don't think you'll point a gun at me, so we should team up."

I've actually laid hands on people on multiple occasions to redirect their muzzle. I don't like doing that and I don't really find myself wanting to be in situations where that will be necessary.

[gtmtnbiker98]

1668

To be completely fair, I went back and checked and it does say "High Risk" right on the box... :o
I love pictures of those not affiliated with LE or military stacking on a doorway! Love it! Useless, but entertaining to watch. I guess everybody has the right to live their fantasy!!

[jetfire]

Back in the good old days the joke was about the person who carried a J-frame or LW Commander IWB day-to-day but did all their Gun Skool with a 5" steel gun in a Galco Gunsite Training Holster

/me looks in holster. Sees j-frame. Looks in range bag used for matches/training...sees 5 inch all-steel 1911.

#WINNING AT OLD SCHOOL

[Tamara]

/me looks in holster. Sees j-frame. Looks in range bag used for matches/training...sees 5 inch all-steel 1911.

#WINNING AT OLD SCHOOL

/me looks in holster, sees same gun will be shooting in 3Gun match next month.

#WINNING AT TACTICAL TAMMY :p :D

[rob_s]

I finally watched the vid. The fact that one of those kittenclowns stacked on a door was waving a kittening KRISS Vector around and muzzling the kitten out of people with it should tell you everything you need to know about that class in one awesome crystallized instant of fail.

You know what's great about Call Of Duty? When you push the wrong button you won't spatter some other student's brains all over the wall for realz, yo.

EDITED TO ADD: This is going to segue into my rant about the guys who have 200 hours of MOLLE-encrusted carbine class with a pimped M4gery and a stippled G-lock in a Safariland drop-leg and go through their day to day life with a pocket-carried LCP they haven't fired in six months. It's a free country and all, but I just don't get that. Back in the good old days the joke was about the person who carried a J-frame or LW Commander IWB day-to-day but did all their Gun Skool with a 5" steel gun in a Galco Gunsite Training Holster, but this takes that meme and cranks it to eleven.


Thinking there's anything wrong with this is no less silly because you're making fun of the molle guy than it was when folks were making fun of the j-frame guy.

Guess what? It's ALL frigging silly. Folks worrying about carrying 17 rounds and training to make 25 yard "high percentage shots" and training ti get their reload times to sub-1-second are no less silly than the molle guys. It's ALL nonsense fantasyland silliness.

There is some stupid "yeah, we'll I'm training for the REAL threat" nonsense in this community that is just laughable. The guy training to fight blue helmets and the guy training to fight off three muggers at 20 yards are just two sides of the same LARP coin.

[jetfire]

/me looks in holster, sees same gun will be shooting in 3Gun match next month.

#WINNING AT TACTICAL TAMMY :p :D

Crimson Trace Midnight 3-Gun? I'll be there with a random selection of guns. And a ginger!

[jetfire]

Thinking there's anything wrong with this is no less silly because you're making fun of the molle guy than it was when folks were making fun of the j-frame guy.

Guess what? It's ALL frigging silly. Folks worrying about carrying 17 rounds and training to make 25 yard "high percentage shots" and training ti get their reload times to sub-1-second are no less silly than the molle guys. It's ALL nonsense fantasyland silliness.

There is some stupid "yeah, we'll I'm training for the REAL threat" nonsense in this community that is just laughable. The guy training to fight blue helmets and the guy training to fight off three muggers at 20 yards are just two sides of the same LARP coin.

Aren't you the Tactical Yellow Visor guy? Because coming from you, the irony of that whole post is off the charts.

[Tamara]

Thinking there's anything wrong with this is no less silly because you're making fun of the molle guy than it was when folks were making fun of the j-frame guy.

Guess what? It's ALL frigging silly. Folks worrying about carrying 17 rounds and training to make 25 yard "high percentage shots" and training ti get their reload times to sub-1-second are no less silly than the molle guys. It's ALL nonsense fantasyland silliness.

There is some stupid "yeah, we'll I'm training for the REAL threat" nonsense in this community that is just laughable. The guy training to fight blue helmets and the guy training to fight off three muggers at 20 yards are just two sides of the same LARP coin.

1) I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a kittenload of carbine classes, per se. Running and gunning with an M4gery is fun, and fun is still legal in America, last I checked, as long as you don't shoot anybody that doesn't need shootin' while you're doing it.

2) I can TOTALLY understand why you'd have a vested interest in defending the practice. Trust me; I'm not attacking you. Get down with your bad self. Get your shemagh and morale patches on and rock out with your carbine out.

3) The day you see me training to fight off three muggers at twenty yards, let me know, okay?

[Tamara]

Crimson Trace Midnight 3-Gun? I'll be there with a random selection of guns. And a ginger!

I will be there with shoes that fit so I'm not a limping whinging crybaby this year! :D

[gtmtnbiker98]

Aren't you the Tactical Yellow Visor guy? Because coming from you, the irony of that whole post is off the charts.
I see what you did there.

[Tamara]

(IRONY ALERT: Somebody scored the "OOOH! BURN!" points on me because I'm down on carbine LARPing when in my avatar I'm holding an M4gery and wearing SIGtac trousers and a Magpul tee-shirt. Call Alanis Morissette.)

[Dr. No]

I counted at least 3 instances of people muzzling others with live weapons, people firing behind their partner (ignoring priority of fire) and people running lanes instead of establishing fields of fire. I guess if you don't understand tactics, whatever someone shows you is OK.

[Nephrology]

/me looks in holster, sees same gun will be shooting in 3Gun match next month.

#WINNING AT TACTICAL TAMMY :p :D

/me looks in holster, sees j frame. looked on internet, bought a model 19.

#hashtag joke about being awesome

[TCinVA]

I think there's a reasonable defense for drawing a line between obtaining a high level of skill with a firearm (a sub 1 second reload would be indicative of that kind of skill) and seeking out "training" experiences that expose one to extremely high levels of risk with very little practical reward.

You may not "need" a sub 1 second reload to fend off a mugger...but when something becomes a shooting problem shooting skill matters. To paraphrase Jack Leuba, shooting may only be 1% of a gunfight but it's the 1% you absolutely cannot screw up. Putting bullets where you need them in a timely manner is pretty darn useful whether you're dealing with a mugger or a bunch of Taliban out for your head.

I don't think the same can be said for what's seen in the video. If that's professionals training to use those techniques for real, then somebody should have been all over the dudes pointing guns at people who don't need to be shot or it will lead to people getting shot when that stuff is being used in real life. It's silly, dangerously so, because proper instruction isn't happening and correction of dangerous practices is nowhere to be seen. If it wasn't professionals training to use those tactics in the course of their duties then it's silly for those reasons plus some more.

As for the guy who shoots his pet 1911 and then leaves the class with a J frame, I've seen multiple permutations of that ranging from people who were really silly (in all sorts of ways) to people who were just making their personal choices about what they wanted to carry on the way to the post-class dinner after spending 10 hours in 100+ degree heat.

[JAD]

See, that's why I'm not keen to find my way back into a shoothouse.

I've been in two shoot houses, one of them many times. One was at Gunsite and was run by Bill Jeans. The other was run by Clint Smith (except for once Heidi ran it). I was pretty comfortable, even low light, even team tactics. I think I've done enough of it, though.

[jlw]

Seems appropriate...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/18395_10151713297287299_1365794436_n.jpg

[Al T.]

Chief, that picture is Yeager approved.... And coming soon to a range in Tennessee......

[Tamara]

Seems appropriate...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/18395_10151713297287299_1365794436_n.jpg

If there was a shark under that guy, it would be the perfectest picture ever put on the internets. :D

[ToddG]

Guess what? It's ALL frigging silly. Folks worrying about carrying 17 rounds and training to make 25 yard "high percentage shots" and training ti get their reload times to sub-1-second are no less silly than the molle guys. It's ALL nonsense fantasyland silliness.

I do think there's a pretty big difference, actually.

Training to use gear you'll almost never have with you, in conjunction with a team of guys you'll probably never see again, versus...

... training to use the gear I have on me every time I step out the door.

I can point to instances in which people have had to make unexpectedly long pistol shots. There have been instances of GGs killed or wounded with empty guns in their hands (or loaded guns in their holsters). Achieving a level of skill that the average CCW might see as extreme certainly takes a lot of time, money, and effort. It may not ever pay off. But certainly no one ever failed in combat because he was too fast, too accurate, or too good.

Plenty of people have failed because they spent their training time on something completely unrelated to the skills needed when the combat began.

As others have said, I've got no criticism for the guy who spends all his time & money on carbine classes if that's what rocks his socks. To me it's no different than the guy who spends a fortune on golf every weekend or the guy who saves up all year to go skiing in the Alps. Practical benefit? Almost zero. Fun? Hey, if you love it, do it.

But the guy who screams all over the internet that "team CQB low-light shoot house dynamic tacitcality" is the pinnacle of CCW or home defense training is missing a very big, obvious forest for a couple of complicated but otherwise forgettable trees.

[jlw]

In his Ballistic Radio interview, Tom Givens discusses an instance where a wife makes relatively long pistol shots to save her husband who is being robbed.

[Tamara]

Has anybody used the term Cattle Call of Duty yet? 'Cause if not, they should be.

[BWT]

I'll admit I'm waiting on a AR-15 SBR to clear, but I keep a Ruger LCP in the dash for most of my pocket carry needs.

Truth is, I'm not finding a way to acceptably carry a full-size Glock right now.

I think that an AR SBR would be the best for self-defense in a home. A Ruger LCP however is the gun I can carry everywhere. I also work for a company where firearms are prohibited on the premises. A Ruger LCP in a pocket holster getting in the car after work is better than a Glock 17 at home.

Side note, if you can shoot small percentage targets at distance, you can also shoot small percentage at close range, and large percentage at close and far. Being able to shoot a firearm precisely at any range will never be a bad thing.

[Lon]

In his Ballistic Radio interview, Tom Givens discusses an instance where a wife makes relatively long pistol shots to save her husband who is being robbed.

One of my guys at work just made a 45 YARD one shot stop with his 226 a couple weeks ago. After a foot chase. He originally thought he was 40 feet.

[Fly320s]

One of my guys at work just made a 45 YARD one shot stop with his 226 a couple weeks ago. After a foot chase. He originally thought he was 40 feet.

Must have been a .45!

[Clyde from Carolina]

Must have been a .45!

:-)

That's darned good shooting. My favorite epic long-range pistol shot from history was the ninety yard shot on Okinawa by Colonel Walter Walsh, formerly of the FBI, at the time serving with 1st Marine Division. (Shot a Japanese sniper with a .45 pistol.)

According to Wiki he was born in 1907 and is still spry, feisty, and kicking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Walsh

[TGS]

:-)

That's darned good shooting. My favorite epic long-range pistol shot from history was the ninety yard shot on Okinawa by Colonel Walter Walsh, formerly of the FBI, at the time serving with 1st Marine Division. (Shot a Japanese sniper with a .45 pistol.)

According to Wiki he was born in 1907 and is still spry, feisty, and kicking.

http://pistol-forum.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=9032

A sniper pwned at 90 yards by a dude with a pistol.

That must sting.

[Lon]

Must have been a .45!

Hahahahaha. Nope. 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dot.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Hahahahaha. Nope. 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dot.

So, it was a .45ACP lite?

[Tamara]

So, it was a .45ACP lite?

Set on "stun".

(Boy, that one never gets old, does it? :o )

[JAD]

A sniper pwned at 90 yards by a dude with a pistol.

That must sting.

My experience in Japan suggests they're /still/ pissed.

[TCinVA]

:-)

That's darned good shooting. My favorite epic long-range pistol shot from history was the ninety yard shot on Okinawa by Colonel Walter Walsh, formerly of the FBI, at the time serving with 1st Marine Division. (Shot a Japanese sniper with a .45 pistol.)

According to Wiki he was born in 1907 and is still spry, feisty, and kicking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Walsh

hax0rz

90 yards with a WWII vintage GI .45 is a superb feat of marksmanship. Looking at the almost vestigial sight bumps on my Sistemas, I don't think I'd be too happy trying to zap somebody with a scoped rifle with one from 90 yards out.

[Cookie Monster]

One of my guys at work just made a 45 YARD one shot stop with his 226 a couple weeks ago. After a foot chase. He originally thought he was 40 feet.

I read that this morning and had a little extra warm happiness in my chest all day. Good work, shake his hand for me.

Cookie Monster

[Al T.]

hax0rz

What the kitten? :confused:

[TCinVA]

What the kitten? :confused:

Long ago I played some First Person Shooters like the original Call of Duty. (Because who doesn't like killing virtual Nazis with a Garand?) On occasion by using the sights on the weapon in the game I was able to make a fairly long shot on someone. Usually some tard running around in the open dumping magazines through a submachinegun as fast as he could with little effect. When I got into a sable position and used my sights to shoot such a tard in the head, I was almost always accused of "hacking", or cheating by using a bit of programming code that automatically directed my virtual "bullets" into the head of the other player.

The poor souls thought it impossible that someone could actually intelligently direct fire at an opponent and prevail, leading them to accuse me of cheating.

So when I read the Wiki entry all I could think about was one of those enraged dudes furiously typing out accusations of cheating. AKA Hacking. AKA Hax. AKA Hax0rz.

[Clyde from Carolina]

hax0rz

90 yards with a WWII vintage GI .45 is a superb feat of marksmanship. Looking at the almost vestigial sight bumps on my Sistemas, I don't think I'd be too happy trying to zap somebody with a scoped rifle with one from 90 yards out.

Not to diminish the Colonel's feat in anyway, but I think the pistol he used was a personally-owned match grade Colt. (Which have slightly better sight bumps.) I think it was one he was gifted as a trophy maybe in a competition? Seems like I read that somewhere but I am getting fuzzy.

No matter. I just say this for the record, not to be pedantic. It was a freaking amazing shot, if he had used an 8 3/4" .357 Magnum with target sights, under those conditions.

Edit: the Colonel used a Registered Magnum in his FBI duties, IIRC.

[TGS]

Long ago I played some First Person Shooters like the original Call of Duty. (Because who doesn't like killing virtual Nazis with a Garand?) On occasion by using the sights on the weapon in the game I was able to make a fairly long shot on someone. Usually some tard running around in the open dumping magazines through a submachinegun as fast as he could with little effect. When I got into a sable position and used my sights to shoot such a tard in the head, I was almost always accused of "hacking", or cheating by using a bit of programming code that automatically directed my virtual "bullets" into the head of the other player.

The poor souls thought it impossible that someone could actually intelligently direct fire at an opponent and prevail, leading them to accuse me of cheating.

So when I read the Wiki entry all I could think about was one of those enraged dudes furiously typing out accusations of cheating. AKA Hacking. AKA Hax. AKA Hax0rz.

This should bring back some memories about the program you used:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGlWjIKoY4

[Clyde from Carolina]

(Because who doesn't like killing virtual Nazis with a Garand?)

Not me-- love it. As a huge Garand fan and anti-Nazi, it was a natural fit. I haven't played too many of those games, but the ones with M-1s and other C&R guns and virtual Nazis...yeah, how can you not dig that? Nazi zombies are even better. I really enjoyed the old Castle Wolfenstein game. Haven't played any of those in years. ;)

[Tamara]

Not me-- love it. As a huge Garand fan and anti-Nazi, it was a natural fit. I haven't played too many of those games, but the ones with M-1s and other C&R guns and virtual Nazis...yeah, how can you not dig that?

That applies to nearly all forms of entertainment:
"As far as I'm concerned, enough machine guns and dead Nazis will cover for nearly any movie-making sin. I can't think of a single movie, from It's A Wonderful Life to Mary Poppins, that wouldn't be improved by a whole bunch of machine guns and dead Nazis. (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2009/01/overheard-on-phone.html)"

[LHS]

Long ago I played some First Person Shooters like the original Call of Duty. (Because who doesn't like killing virtual Nazis with a Garand?) On occasion by using the sights on the weapon in the game I was able to make a fairly long shot on someone. Usually some tard running around in the open dumping magazines through a submachinegun as fast as he could with little effect. When I got into a sable position and used my sights to shoot such a tard in the head, I was almost always accused of "hacking", or cheating by using a bit of programming code that automatically directed my virtual "bullets" into the head of the other player.

The poor souls thought it impossible that someone could actually intelligently direct fire at an opponent and prevail, leading them to accuse me of cheating.

So when I read the Wiki entry all I could think about was one of those enraged dudes furiously typing out accusations of cheating. AKA Hacking. AKA Hax. AKA Hax0rz.

I used to get accused of h4xx0r1ng because Counter-Strike had modeled bullet penetration. I'd go up to the rooftop outside the warehouse in CS_ASSAULT and just hose down the known terrorist camping spots through the sheet metal walls with my M249. Every now and again I'd get a lucky random headshot resulting in an insta-kill and immediate protestations of "AIMBOT! HAXX0R! WALLHAX!". It got so annoying that I eventually started camping that roof with the misnamed 'AWP' instead. Eventually I got bored and started punching .338 Lapua slugs through the walls in likely spots, and got a lucky blind headshot. Instant ban from the server for being a '1337 H4xx0r.'

[Corlissimo]

I used to get accused of h4xx0r1ng because Counter-Strike had modeled bullet penetration. I'd go up to the rooftop outside the warehouse in CS_ASSAULT and just hose down the known terrorist camping spots through the sheet metal walls with my M249. Every now and again I'd get a lucky random headshot resulting in an insta-kill and immediate protestations of "AIMBOT! HAXX0R! WALLHAX!". It got so annoying that I eventually started camping that roof with the misnamed 'AWP' instead. Eventually I got bored and started punching .338 Lapua slugs through the walls in likely spots, and got a lucky blind headshot. Instant ban from the server for being a '1337 H4xx0r.'

That was you?!?!? You bastard!!! You destroyed my k/d ratios you SOB. 1337 my @$$! j/k :D

.

Typos brought to you by my DROID... and my apathy.

[ToddG]

:-)

That's darned good shooting. My favorite epic long-range pistol shot from history was the ninety yard shot on Okinawa by Colonel Walter Walsh, formerly of the FBI, at the time serving with 1st Marine Division. (Shot a Japanese sniper with a .45 pistol.)

According to Wiki he was born in 1907 and is still spry, feisty, and kicking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Walsh

My former partner at SIG is personal friends with Col Walsh and continues to threaten writing a book about the Colonel.



I used to get accused of h4xx0r1ng because Counter-Strike had modeled bullet penetration.

And in the "small world dept, pt2" ... one of the guys they consulted to work out the details of how bullets would penetrate different materials was a National Academy of Sciences guy who was a regular on the old Tactics-L list and a regular at many DC-area training events. He may even be a member here on the forum...

[Clyde from Carolina]

My former partner at SIG is personal friends with Col Walsh and continues to threaten writing a book about the Colonel.



Tell him to get hot. :D That would make a fine book, IMHO. Might not be a bestseller, but I think it would be a wonderful historical document and would probably be well received in the gun and sporting community. The Big Yankee about Colonel Evans Carlson of Raider fame is probably forgotten by a lot of people today, but I'm glad somebody wrote it back in the day.

[NickA]

Since we've veered off into shooting BG's at long range with pistols- Airman Andy Brown took out an active shooter at about 70 yards with an M9, 4 shots, 2 hits, one to the shoulder and one to the head. IIRC it was '94 or so at Fairchild AFB, and he was on bike patrol, hauled butt to the hospital and engaged the guy as he left the building. Interestingly I heard him say in an interview that he had no idea it was that far, and thought it was more like 40 yards or so.

[John Ralston]

I used to get accused of h4xx0r1ng because Counter-Strike had modeled bullet penetration. I'd go up to the rooftop outside the warehouse in CS_ASSAULT and just hose down the known terrorist camping spots through the sheet metal walls with my M249. Every now and again I'd get a lucky random headshot resulting in an insta-kill and immediate protestations of "AIMBOT! HAXX0R! WALLHAX!". It got so annoying that I eventually started camping that roof with the misnamed 'AWP' instead. Eventually I got bored and started punching .338 Lapua slugs through the walls in likely spots, and got a lucky blind headshot. Instant ban from the server for being a '1337 H4xx0r.'

At first I was going to say I wish I knew what you guys were talking about, but that would be a lie. Never played an online game...likely never will. I guess I will just have to go back to my book.

[fuse]

This should bring back some memories about the program you used:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGlWjIKoY4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbxRp6Dg_VQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[SeriousStudent]

My former partner at SIG is personal friends with Col Walsh and continues to threaten writing a book about the Colonel.

.......

I'd be very pleased to purchase a copy of that book for my library, if he ever has the opportunity to write it.

[TGS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbxRp6Dg_VQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Hahahahaha.

I love that guy's videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTv6tWI9gZQ

[Nephrology]

Hahahahaha.

I love that guy's videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTv6tWI9gZQ

Another one with a high badass quotient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_826240&feature=iv&src_vid=6vgo-7iYXiE&v=9YD6OxR3w04

[LHS]

Another one with a high badass quotient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_826240&feature=iv&src_vid=6vgo-7iYXiE&v=9YD6OxR3w04

This one's badass as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzhVAJOHgQo

[Dr. No]

One of my guys at work just made a 45 YARD one shot stop with his 226 a couple weeks ago. After a foot chase. He originally thought he was 40 feet.

An active shooter I responded to was shot by a patrolman from 35 yards away with one shot fired and one COM hit. He was being fired on at the time.