9mm 1911 fiends come inside

[PPGMD]

So based on Todd's test I decided to give single stack a try with a 9mm 1911 for steel challenge. I bought a STI Trojan from Dawson Precision with a Warren Tactical rear sight (they just released a bomar cut version).

It's a CRP gun with the huge mag well, fiber optic front sight, and DP mag release (which supposedly prevents the magazines from over inserting and hitting the ejector). I have three of the Dawson Precision 10 round magazines, which are supposedly improved Metalform magazines (I am looking to get my usual two dozen magazines).

This will be my first serious jump into 1911s, I also prefer to do most of the minor work myself. So any suggestions for changes like grips, best tools to have, and resources so when it comes to wrench on the gun I know what I am doing?

My M&Ps aren't going away, just looking to shoot an additional entry at the state and national steel challenge.

[Tamara]

See, Todd? See what you've done? "Oh, Todd's blaspheming, so blasphemy must be cool now!" I hope you're happy. :mad:

[ToddG]

I may be blessed but I've had to do basically nothing. Even my extractor has held steady without tuning for the past 35k+ rounds. Nor have I found the 1911 to be as failure-prone in the presence of a single speck of dust as many people expected (myself included). I probably re-apply oil for lubrication every thousand rounds or so.

The spare parts I keep in my range bag are: grip screws, recoil & firing pin springs, and a pre-fitted extractor. And a spare identical gun. :cool:

Grips: I've become a huge fan of VCD Grips (http://vcdgrips.com). They'll wear you out at first but it's like superglue on your hands. They're not the prettiest grips and they're not the most comfortable grips but they're awesome when you're actually making the gun go bang.

I haven't needed any special tools. I bought a bushing wrench... never use it. I bought a 10-8 tool... never use it.

Figure out what recoil spring works best for your gun and buy half a dozen of them. Change the recoil spring every 5k (at least... there are 'smiths who'll recommend twice that often). Change the firing pin spring every time you change the recoil spring. If you buy Wolff (http://www.brownells.com/items/1911-wolff-recoil-springs.aspx) recoil springs, each one comes with a firing pin spring right there in the package.

Keep a definite eye on the magazines, especially since they're relatively unproven. I'd load a few of them up to max capacity and leave them in a closet for three months. Then see if they still function properly. So far, the Wilson ETM (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/9mm/products/379/)s are the only ones I've found that work consistently. They have some minor issues but in terms of making the gun go bang every time, they're the best I've found.

Honestly, at least for me, software has been a much bigger challenge than hardware with the 9mm 1911. But I've been running mine just a few hair longer than one year. There are guys here who've been shooting 1911s since before I bought my first gun and probably since before I was born. I look forward to the thread!

[ToddG]

See, Todd? See what you've done? "Oh, Todd's blaspheming, so blasphemy must be cool now!" I hope you're happy. :mad:

My favorite part is you get a really good shooter like PPGMD, who has worked out all the kinks with a platform he can shoot well like the M&P, he reads about all the struggles I've had trying to get my shooting performance with a 1911 even close to what I could do with a Glock or HK, and it all comes together as, "I need one of those 9mm 1911s!" :cool:

But whatever you do, don't tell him I said that! I want to see how those Dawson magazines work out...

[PPGMD]

I may be blessed but I've had to do basically nothing. Even my extractor has held steady without tuning for the past 35k+ rounds. Nor have I found the 1911 to be as failure-prone in the presence of a single speck of dust as many people expected (myself included). I probably re-apply oil for lubrication every thousand rounds or so.

The spare parts I keep in my range bag are: grip screws, recoil & firing pin springs, and a pre-fitted extractor. And a spare identical gun. :cool:

This is simply a start. If I like 1911s enough a nice custom gun built to my specs will likely be in my future.


Grips: I've become a huge fan of VCD Grips (http://vcdgrips.com). They'll wear you out at first but it's like superglue on your hands. They're not the prettiest grips and they're not the most comfortable grips but they're awesome when you're actually making the gun go bang.

I haven't needed any special tools. I bought a bushing wrench... never use it. I bought a 10-8 tool... never use it.

Figure out what recoil spring works best for your gun and buy half a dozen of them. Change the recoil spring every 5k (at least... there are 'smiths who'll recommend twice that often). Change the firing pin spring every time you change the recoil spring. If you buy Wolff (http://www.brownells.com/items/1911-wolff-recoil-springs.aspx) recoil springs, each one comes with a firing pin spring right there in the package.

How are the grips on your hand during the long shooting sessions? During the steel nationals I found that though my grip tape is great for gripping it was ripping up my hands during the practice session as I rarely shoot a case in a day.

As far as the bushing wrench, was you gun simply loose enough that you could depress it by hand? I already have two different bushing wrenches, the Caspian Arms pocket Armorer, and a 9mm ejector; for some reason by prize bags seem to include 1911 parts and tools. :confused:


Keep a definite eye on the magazines, especially since they're relatively unproven. I'd load a few of them up to max capacity and leave them in a closet for three months. Then see if they still function properly. So far, the Wilson ETM (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/9mm/products/379/)s are the only ones I've found that work consistently. They have some minor issues but in terms of making the gun go bang every time, they're the best I've found.

Since I don't pick the gun up until November (stupid federal laws about handguns), I loaded up two of the magazines. So we will see how they fare during the first range session then.


Honestly, at least for me, software has been a much bigger challenge than hardware with the 9mm 1911. But I've been running mine just a few hair longer than one year. There are guys here who've been shooting 1911s since before I bought my first gun and probably since before I was born. I look forward to the thread!

That is probably going to be my issue as well. I haven't shot a gun with a safety since I was shooting the Cee Zed years. I know this may be more blasphemy to Tam, but I would really like a trigger that has more pretravel than a typical 1911 with a rolling break. I think that would aide my transition as I am looking to add the 1911 as a second gun at major steel matches rather than replacing my M&Ps.

[Robinson]

This may be redundant after ToddG's post, but my suggestions would be to quickly figure out what magazines and recoil springs work the best in your gun. For me there was some trial and error, but once I figured it out I was able to make it through the 2K challenge with no problems.

The gun I was using (Springfield Armory Loaded Target model) liked the Metalform 9-round magazines like what shipped with the pistol the best, followed by the 10-round Metalforms. The only problem with the 10-rounders is that one or two of them stopped locking the slide back on empty after a while. The 9-rounders did not have that problem. My gun did not like Wilson combat mags, but I was using some older ones and I think they have improved their design since then.

I think I was running a 13-pound recoil spring which worked much better than the 8-pound spring installed by the factory.

Lots of fun can be had with a 9mm 1911.

[Morbidbattlecry]

I've found the poundage of spring your are using determines when you change them out. I had a wolff 9lb on my springfield and it barely lasted a 1000 rounds.

[BLR]

I may be blessed but I've had to do basically nothing. Even my extractor has held steady without tuning for the past 35k+ rounds. Nor have I found the 1911 to be as failure-prone in the presence of a single speck of dust as many people expected (myself included). I probably re-apply oil for lubrication every thousand rounds or so.

This is my shocked face.

I was going to say more, but no more needs to be said.

[ToddG]

This is simply a start. If I like 1911s enough a nice custom gun built to my specs will likely be in my future.

If you get that far, let me know. I know a guy. :cool:


How are the grips on your hand during the long shooting sessions?

Due to my on-again/off-again shooting schedule since December, I've had lots of opportunities to lose callous, shoot on "fresh" hands, rebuild callous, and then lose it again to start the cycle over and over. Looking at the hot spots on my hand right now, none of them are from the grips. It took a bit of getting used to when I first got them, but now even when I've gone months without holding the gun it's really not that bad to shoot 600+ rounds in a day. The grips also come with an emory board so if you want to gentle them down a bit you can do so.

They can be rough on clothes. I've worn through a couple of my favorite polos and most of the UA undershirts I own are a wreck at the appendix.


As far as the bushing wrench, was you gun simply loose enough that you could depress it by hand?

It was a real kitten when I first got them, but after field stripping them just a couple of times it became easy to do by hand. My understanding is that varies a lot by brand, fitment, etc.


That is probably going to be my issue as well. I haven't shot a gun with a safety since I was shooting the Cee Zed years. I know this may be more blasphemy to Tam, but I would really like a trigger that has more pretravel than a typical 1911 with a rolling break.

The thumb safety was a complete non-issue to me. As long as you understand it's important to keep your SH thumb atop the safety lever every moment the gun is in your hand (unless you're in the process of enabling the safety) it just takes no effort. At least, that's been the case for me with these guns. Different safety levers may be less transparent in their use.

A 'smith can build some pretravel into the trigger. Jason Burton is doing that on my Heirloom gun (and it's something he does on his personal gun, as well).


This is my shocked face.

For everyone here who doesn't know the backstory...

On another very small forum in a galaxy far, far ago :cool: I first started the 2k Challenge thing. Eventually, Bill showed up and posted his results for a number of 1911s... all of which passed without a stoppage. So I sent him a message that basically said, "Read the instructions, dummy. You're not allowed to clean or lube the guns during the whole 2,000 rounds. There's no way you could have done that with a 1911." Bill explained that he did understand the rules and he had followed them. We basically wrote him off as a lunatic, liar, or both. Sorry, Bill!

[Jim Watson]

If it has a GI recoil spring guide and plug, best have along a spare plug. You will launch one sooner or later. There were two IN MY OLD SHOP when I left it. Never saw them even when moving out. Just as well have a recoil spring, they can launch, too.

[NETim]

For everyone here who doesn't know the backstory...

On another very small forum in a galaxy far, far ago :cool: I first started the 2k Challenge thing. Eventually, Bill showed up and posted his results for a number of 1911s... all of which passed without a stoppage. So I sent him a message that basically said, "Read the instructions, dummy. You're not allowed to clean or lube the guns during the whole 2,000 rounds. There's no way you could have done that with a 1911." Bill explained that he did understand the rules and he had followed them. We basically wrote him off as a lunatic, liar, or both. Sorry, Bill!

:)

[Tamara]

For everyone here who doesn't know the backstory...

On another very small forum in a galaxy far, far ago :cool: I first started the 2k Challenge thing. Eventually, Bill showed up and posted his results for a number of 1911s... all of which passed without a stoppage. So I sent him a message that basically said, "Read the instructions, dummy. You're not allowed to clean or lube the guns during the whole 2,000 rounds. There's no way you could have done that with a 1911." Bill explained that he did understand the rules and he had followed them. We basically wrote him off as a lunatic, liar, or both. Sorry, Bill!

If I'd realized the 2k Challenge was such a thing, I would have run another quick thousand rounds through that CCA 1911 after AFHF before I took it apart... :D

[BLR]

If I'd realized the 2k Challenge was such a thing, I would have run another quick thousand rounds through that CCA 1911 after AFHF before I took it apart... :D

Can't get it back together again? I kid, I kid!

Truth be told, I forgot all about that "9x19mm.com" forum beating! I kinda miss that site. My comment was directed to the "1911s, I don't get it" thread here!

"You are making gun store arguments."

"King of the feed way stoppage."

"Adjust the extractor every 100 rounds."

"Unreliable."

And so on, and so forth.

And, as a parting shot - I have yet to have anyone follow up with their "you don't have to pay for the class if your 1911 makes it thru w/o a malf." And I'm not paying for a Pinky/Jimmy class :|

[Tamara]

Can't get it back together again? I kid, I kid!

Hurr, hurr.

I practiced on my practice gun (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2006/10/boomsticks-sistema-diaries-volume-ii.html) so I could figure it out. :rolleyes:

[Odin Bravo One]

If you get that far, let me know. I know a guy. :cool:



Yeah, well just like "The Placebo Effect", some sell you Zima and candy corn, while the real stuff (as referenced in above quote) causes you to lose your hair and toenails because you can't afford nail clippers or shampoo!

I'm about $20k into these silly custom 1911's, with another commissioned, completion date: TBD. Maybe by 2019? 2020? Estimated cost, with cosmetic/aesthetic additions, somewhere in the vicinity of $6000-7000. One of those where you don't even bother to ask for a quote. If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

For years I was really a huge fan of carrying and shooting the 1911. Albeit not in 9mm, but when the front office decided to get rid of all .45's, a 9mm 1911 made senseOf course, neither were up to my specs so $2500 a piece for those two added to the total........when I look at the investment into getting COTS 1911s up to snuff, and the full house custom builds from components, combined with how little I have shot them over the past several years...........I am starting to hate them more and more!

It has been almost 10 years since I carried/shot/trained with a 1911. I ran a 1911 at my AFHF class in NC in 2009 but only because I was so gimped out I couldn't get out to beg/borrow/steal a backup/spare gun that matched my carry gun in time for the class.

I busted out one of the full house custom builds for a range session with Sparks2112 in OH several weeks ago, and I had more shooter induced malfunctions in one afternoon than I had in ten years of routinely carrying/shooting/training with them. Software problem indeed!!!! I need a firmware patch, and to download the latest updates, and spend some serious time getting re-acquainted with them before I could seriously consider even keeping one on the nightstand, or the closet safe as a possible "go to" gun.

But damn..........they are sexy!!! And I can't help but still like them, despite the financial hardship my family had to ensure because of them. Of course, by family I mean me and my old dog. By hardship, I mean he had to eat bulk bagged food instead of wet food. Sometimes I miss being in a single income, single occupant, no real financial responsibilities household............... :( Fortunately, Bill keeps me happy with neat pictures of guns I would end up divorced if I bought one so that is a distinct possibility. One check away........

[BLR]

Yeah, well just like "The Placebo Effect", some sell you Zima and candy corn, while the real stuff (as referenced in above quote) causes you to lose your hair and toenails because you can't afford nail clippers or shampoo!

I'm about $20k into these silly custom 1911's, with another commissioned, completion date: TBD. Maybe by 2019? 2020? Estimated cost, with cosmetic/aesthetic additions, somewhere in the vicinity of $6000-7000. One of those where you don't even bother to ask for a quote. If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

For years I was really a huge fan of carrying and shooting the 1911. Albeit not in 9mm, but when the front office decided to get rid of all .45's, a 9mm 1911 made senseOf course, neither were up to my specs so $2500 a piece for those two added to the total........when I look at the investment into getting COTS 1911s up to snuff, and the full house custom builds from components, combined with how little I have shot them over the past several years...........I am starting to hate them more and more!

It has been almost 10 years since I carried/shot/trained with a 1911. I ran a 1911 at my AFHF class in NC in 2009 but only because I was so gimped out I couldn't get out to beg/borrow/steal a backup/spare gun that matched my carry gun in time for the class.

I busted out one of the full house custom builds for a range session with Sparks2112 in OH several weeks ago, and I had more shooter induced malfunctions in one afternoon than I had in ten years of routinely carrying/shooting/training with them. Software problem indeed!!!! I need a firmware patch, and to download the latest updates, and spend some serious time getting re-acquainted with them before I could seriously consider even keeping one on the nightstand, or the closet safe as a possible "go to" gun.

But damn..........they are sexy!!! And I can't help but still like them, despite the financial hardship my family had to ensure because of them. Of course, by family I mean me and my old dog. By hardship, I mean he had to eat bulk bagged food instead of wet food. Sometimes I miss being in a single income, single occupant, no real financial responsibilities household............... :( Fortunately, Bill keeps me happy with neat pictures of guns I would end up divorced if I bought one so that is a distinct possibility. One check away........

Standing offer for you and John - if you guys get together at Sunken Lunken, I'll fly down in the auto-gyro, pick you guys up, and we can shoot at the farm and roast a pig.

Food for thought - I have a 1911 from 9 out of the 10 on the American Handgunner Top 10 list. And multiple copies from a couple.

[Haraise]

Standing offer for you and John - if you guys get together at Sunken Lunken, I'll fly down in the auto-gyro, pick you guys up, and we can shoot at the farm and roast a pig.

Food for thought - I have a 1911 from 9 out of the 10 on the American Handgunner Top 10 list. And multiple copies from a couple.

Pretty sure you're in the wrong thread, Bill.

This is for 9mm 1911 fiends. Having 9mm 1911s and never shooting them doesn't exactly count.

[BLR]

Pretty sure you're in the wrong thread, Bill.

This is for 9mm 1911 fiends. Having 9mm 1911s and never shooting them doesn't exactly count.

I'm slumming. :cool:

[Haraise]

I'm slumming. :cool:

Try not to look down /too hard/ on those who can't manage to feed a 1911 the proper round. ;)

[PPGMD]

I'm about $20k into these silly custom 1911's, with another commissioned, completion date: TBD. Maybe by 2019? 2020? Estimated cost, with cosmetic/aesthetic additions, somewhere in the vicinity of $6000-7000. One of those where you don't even bother to ask for a quote. If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

Yikes, that kind of scares me. This 1911 is already the most expensive off the shelf gun I own.


...I'll fly down in the auto-gyro, pick you guys up...

My initial flight instructor once told me "Never fly in anything where the wings are flying faster than the fuselage itself, as they have a tendency to leave the fuselage behind." :p

[Odin Bravo One]

Standing offer for you and John - if you guys get together at Sunken Lunken, I'll fly down in the auto-gyro, pick you guys up, and we can shoot at the farm and roast a pig.

Food for thought - I have a 1911 from 9 out of the 10 on the American Handgunner Top 10 list. And multiple copies from a couple.

I have no idea what that is. I'm guessing from other inputs it is some sort of flying contraption? Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. Or you can just let me out at about 15k' and I'll meet you guys on the ground. Little aircraft and big dudes have not been my greatest combination to avoid injury.

As for the 9 out of 10 AH Top 10 list...........like I said, one check away from the "D", and I don't mean Dallas. (And the ghost of JMB tempts me at every news stand gun publication with color glossy photos)

[ToddG]

I moved the bulk of the thread drift to the Romper Room, thread name Gyros (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9061-Gyros).

http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Sandwiches/Gyro.jpg

[PPGMD]

Well I got the call from my dealer that it is ready to be picked up. Now I must resist the urge to use my Southwest points to fly down to Florida and pick it up.

[ToddG]

Well I got the call from my dealer that it is ready to be picked up. Now I must resist the urge to use my Southwest points to fly down to Florida and pick it up.

Ask Riehl if you can borrow his gyro.

FWIW, I ran my Warren gun Fr all day at the range plus Sa/Su at the Langdon class. A buddy borrowed my backup Warren gun and ran it for most of the day Sunday, as well. Now he's planning to order one.

[PPGMD]

What I picked up today:
http://www.teampegleg.com/wp-content/gallery/singlestack1911/sti_trojan_v_9mm.jpg

I also picked up another M&P 9 Pro 5".

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

When I started shooting pistols, I shot a Kimber CDP II 45ACP exclusively for about a year. I gave it up after picking up a Glock 30 that was an order of magnitude more reliable out of the box. At some point along the way, I transitioned to Glock 9mms. I still like the idea of a 1911, but after the Kimber and an SA, I wasn't satisfied with production 1911s. However, after ToddG's experience with the SACS guns, I'm really intrigued by the idea of a 9mm 1911. I can get basically anything in CA, but it comes at a pretty significant increase in hassle and expense. So, I'm following this thread with some interest.

[Chuck_S]

I've had a 9mm M1991 Series 80 Government Model for several years. It's strictly a training/practice pistol and performs admirably for that purpose. I'm not a fan of 9mm or 9mm M1911s otherwise. This pistol is set up as closely to my .45ACP carry pistols as possible. 9mm Colt was far from reliable when I got her. 9mm cartridge is what's a .45ACP slide had extractor issues cured with a non-standard extractor with little springs in it. (Brand name brain cramp at present.) But that was the only nagging issue. The gun is far from stock. Had the slide machined for Novak tritium sights and the internals replaced with top end machined parts. 2000 rounds of Wolf over a training course weekend is common.

I think the magazines hold a whopping nine (9) rounds, so caliber aside there's no benefit to carry it. Some styles of magazines refuse to drop free for some reason.

Saved more than the her cost in ammunition savings several times. She'll handle 147gr JHPs if asked.

-- Chuck

[SecondsCount]

I've had a 9mm M1991 Series 80 Government Model for several years. It's strictly a training/practice pistol and performs admirably for that purpose. I'm not a fan of 9mm or 9mm M1911s otherwise. This pistol is set up as closely to my .45ACP carry pistols as possible. 9mm Colt was far from reliable when I got her. 9mm cartridge is what's a .45ACP slide had extractor issues cured with a non-standard extractor with little springs in it. (Brand name brain cramp at present.) But that was the only nagging issue.

Aftec?

I have one in a .40 2011 and it works as advertised.

[PPGMD]

I took it to the range twice now, so I have 510 rounds through the gun.

I've had two issues one failure to feed from the first two magazines I loaded in June. That hasn't reoccurred so I think I simply didn't load it by pushing the rounds all the way to the back.

The other was that I was noticing that the magazines would eject every time I holstered. The big mag button that they install was hitting the holster. A quick dremel of the holster cured that.

[Chuck_S]

Aftec is correct (thanks!) I tried it out of desperation.

It's the only extractor I found that was reliable in my 9mm M1991 GM. Probably 10,000+ rounds. The slide of the 9mm is the same as the .45ACP and the extractor channel is the same or very similar placing the extractor farther from the cartridge center.

-- Chuck

[JAD]

. The slide of the 9mm is the same as the .45ACP and the extractor channel is the same or very similar placing the extractor farther from the cartridge

Just to clarify for some, running a 9 in a gun which has a breechface cut for .45 doesn't work. The extractor can't hold the cartridge rim. Mr. S found an extractor that would overcome this.

[Tamara]

Just to clarify for some, running a 9 in a gun which has a breechface cut for .45 doesn't work.

I was gonna say.

Even my Painted Ordnance LTC in 9 minimal has the correctly-cut breechface.

[ssb]

Perhaps this is a bit of a novice question, but:

What real benefit is a shooter getting from a 9mm 1911 in a world of reasonably reliable high-capacity 9mms? Is it a sex appeal thing or is there something tangible?

I understand that having a hammer adds an element of safety to AIWB carry, for its movement can be blocked while reholstering. Though I personally do not care for them, a manual safety adds yet another layer. I get that a 1911 is the archetypical American gun, and that it just feels right to some. I get that the triggers on properly done 1911 makes most "modern" triggers (striker-fired, LEM, etc.) look like crap. But beyond that, what is there? Does that benefit truly outweigh what (I perceive) amounts to owning a gun that requires tuning, with a rather small capacity given the weapon's size?

[ToddG]

What real benefit is a shooter getting from a 9mm 1911 in a world of reasonably reliable high-capacity 9mms? Is it a sex appeal thing or is there something tangible?

I think the answer to that question depends completely on the shooter in question.

For example, I know more than one LEO who prefers a 1911 to a Glock quite specifically because the 1911 makes a superior bludgeon when necessary. :cool:

[Tamara]

(I perceive) amounts to owning a gun that requires tuning...

The only tuning any of my carry 1911s required was popping the latches on the case. I mean, I replaced some mag springs and recoil springs, mostly on a prophylactic basis, but I do that with other guns, too.

I'm still not clear on what all this "tuning" I was supposed to have been doing involves. Should I have bought a timing light*?


*Ask your parents, kids.

[BLR]

I give up.

[farscott]

Unfortunately for me, my 9x19 1911 luck is not as good as Tamara's. I have found three sources of issues with 9x19 1911s.

1) Magazine sensitivity. Some of my 9mm 1911s like the Metalform "Springfield Ramp" magazine and will not feed the first round from a Metalform-made Colt magazine, one loves factory Colt magazines and chokes on the Metalform "Springfield Ramp" magazines, one like the Mec-Gar magazines. I go through more magazines in 9mm 1911s than any other gun, and I do not shoot the 9mm 1911s as much as other guns.

2) Magazine catch and ejectors. I have had two 9mm 1911s that broke ejectors because the magazine was held too high by the catch. My STI Trojan 5.0 was the my first exposure to this issue. Once I fit a Brown magazine catch, that issue went away. The magazine catch height is probably also part of the magazine sensitivity issue in 1).

3) Lack of standard dimensions combined with a shorter cartridge with less energy to cycle the gun. This actually should be reason 1). I think the 9x19 is at the hairy edge of reliability in the 1911 design, especially as there are so many 1911 parts with widely varying tolerances and design concepts (e.g., standard and ramped barrels in the caliber combined with the various magazine designs combine to make round feeding have a lot of variables). With the shortened case and the less energetic recoil (compared to .45 ACP), the 9mm 1911 is not as forgiving to tolerance stacking as the same gun in .45 ACP -- or 9x23. All of my 9mm 1911s have been extensively tuned by the likes of John Harrison and David Sams. The Harrison Colt, in particular, needed a lot of work to function reliably. John spent lots of time getting that gun as shipped from Colt to run properly. In contrast, a 9x23 feeds much more reliably even with loads at 9x19 levels. The longer case seems to just feed better.

Obviously some guns do work out of the box as evidenced by the TLG test guns and Tamara's experience; however, there are lots of 9mm 1911s that are problematic for owners. I currently have four of them, and only one was good to go when I opened the box. That one happens to be the Sams gun. It also happened to be the one that was built from scratch from a Caspian frame and slide and a KKM barrel. In my experience, a 9mm 1911 shooter definitely needs to be willing to experiment and stay on top of maintenance to guarantee a reliable gun. In many ways, these guns are the anti-Glock as parts interchangeability is most definitely pre-Whitney.

[Tamara]

Unfortunately for me, my 9x19 1911 luck is not as good as Tamara's.

My 9x19 1911 luck hasn't been very good. I don't recollect saying it has. But then, my 9mm 1911 is a Painted Ordnance. It works fine within a certain set of parameters, but it's got enough issues that I wouldn't trust it as a carry gun. Most of my other 9mm 1911 experience is with Colt Commanders from a period when Colt's QC was not... how to put this politely? ...at the top of their game.

Like 1911guy has said elsewhere, the 9mm 1911 is on the ragged edge of the gun's envelope.

I was referring to sboers statement about the 1911 requiring "tuning", which he seemed to be directing at 1911s in general rather than 9mms in particular.

[JAD]

1) Magazine sensitivity. Some of my 9mm 1911s like the Metalform "Springfield Ramp" magazine and will not feed the first round from a Metalform-made Colt magazine, one loves factory Colt magazines and chokes on the Metalform "Springfield Ramp" magazines, one like the Mec-Gar magazines. I go through more magazines in 9mm 1911s than any other gun, and I do not shoot the 9mm 1911s as much as other guns.
I'm curious that you don't mention Wilsons. They seem to be a favorite.

I certainly agree with you that running the gun with the case length it was designed for makes a few things easier. Ramped barrels also give me hives.

[farscott]

Tamara,

Sorry I misread what you wrote. It appears that it was too early for me to be reading and posting.

JAD,

I have not had the best of (or any luck with) the Wilson 9mm magazines. That being said, I have not tried any of them in the last three years. It appears I need to do so.

[cdunn]

I have had 3 9mm 1911's a Kimber tact. pro.which worked great with kimber mags, it was light,accurate and easy to carry.But any other mag would cream the ejector and eventually break it.after a new one way installed by kimberI bought several kimber mags and all were tested by kimber when they were fixing it.After getting it backI removed a little material from the bottom of the ejector so my tripps and wilsons would work.
The second was a rock island that I shot once then somebody wanted more then me,but I don't remember any issues with it.The third is a nighthawk grp which I use wilson mags in and it works great the nighthawk supplied mags are sitting around here somewhere with a couple tripps and one other kind that I don't recall the brand.

[Depmur]

I saw today where Springfield Armory is offering their Range Officer in 9mm. This might be a viable entry level 9mm 1911. I have a RO (45acp) with 4300 rounds through it, no issue at all. The only thing I've done is replaced the rear sight with a Harrison and a Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight. I've used it as a training pistol while working the range at my Department. I've seen RO's for around $700.00 locally and if I see a 9mm for that price i will purchase it and report back. Makes me think I should buy some of the Wilson ETM's that are on sale right now.


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[223AI]

Bringing a thread back from the dead to say that I am now re-learning how to shoot a pistol (this time with instruction!), and am utilizing a Commander length 9mm 1911 on a Caspian slide/receiver, Briley barrel, and Ed Brown guts. This sight has been a major influence on me going down this route, the endurance test and the feedback from Bill R. being the major factors. It's a fun gun to shoot. I sold my Ned Christiansen .45 to fund this project.

So far, I have +/- 4000 rounds on the pistol. Almost all have been 115gr ball of some form or fashion. The gun was VERY tight when I picked it up from my gunsmith, and it took every bit of 250 rounds and plenty of lube to get it to run reliably. I settled on Tripp Mags after I couldn't get the Wilson ETM mags to hold more than 8 rounds without a problem. The Tripp mags have been excellent, and I have 8 in rotation, with 2 set aside for carry.

My gunsmith recommended the Commander length for purposes of reliability in the 1911 platform with 9mm. Specifically, there is something about the reduced slide weight aiding in cycling a 9mm 1911, but I couldn't tell you the mechanics behind it. He also recommended the Briley barrel (Briley is local to me), with a Para/Clark ramp cut. The Para/Clark ramp cut is supposedly stronger and easier on the gun, but I have literally no clue as to how to measure that.

The one major surprise has been that, of the defensive ammo that I have tried, only Hornady Critical Defense 115gr ammunition has fed 100% without a feedway stoppage. I've tried Golden Saber, Federal HST, Federal Guard Dog, and a partridge in a pear tree. The slide causes the round to nosedive into the barrel ramp, and if the hollow point is too big, it hangs up. I called Virgil Tripp, and he recommended sending the gun to him to recut the ramp to a specific dimension. I'm going to try other mags before I go down that path. The Tripp mags are so well made, that I might just end up carrying the Hornady ammo instead.

Regular, full power ball ammo of all bullet weights have been extremely reliable. I've gone 1000 rounds without cleaning or re-lubing and have had no stoppages. Far less than the 2k challenge, but it sure made me feel good to hit that 1k. Reduced power 147 grain loads only cycle 50% of the time with a 14 lb recoil spring. I have replaced the recoil spring with a 12lb spring, and plan to give the reduced power 147's another go.

I am having another gun built to similar specs, but with some minor "game gun" changes. Specifically, I am going with a Foster (Caspian) "race ready" receiver, Caspian Commander slide with diamond serration on the rear and front, and Warren Tactical Sights with a fiber optic front sight post. The flared magwell should assist in speedier reloads, and I am hoping the fiber optic front sight will help to speed up sight acquisition.

I plan to use the "game gun" to start shooting USPSA. Shooting precision rifle field matches has turned me into a significantly better rifle marksman, and I believe that shooting competitive pistol matches will do the same for my pistol skills....they certainly can't get much worse.

[PPGMD]

I'll be shooting the US IPSC Nationals with my 9mm Trojan in the Classic Division (the only pistol I have the qualifies for a reasonably competitive IPSC division without a whole lot of changes).

[fnbrowning]

Unfortunately for me, my 9x19 1911 luck is not as good as Tamara's. I have found three sources of issues with 9x19 1911s.


My 9x19 1911 luck hasn't been very good. I don't recollect saying it has. But then, my 9mm 1911 is a Painted Ordnance. It works fine within a certain set of parameters, but it's got enough issues that I wouldn't trust it as a carry gun. Most of my other 9mm 1911 experience is with Colt Commanders from a period when Colt's QC was not... how to put this politely? ...at the top of their game.

Like 1911guy has said elsewhere, the 9mm 1911 is on the ragged edge of the gun's envelope.

I was referring to sboers statement about the 1911 requiring "tuning", which he seemed to be directing at 1911s in general rather than 9mms in particular.

While we're bringing the thread back, I have to add that I have a Smith and Wesson Pro Series 9mm 1911, and it's a fine gun.

While I do not shoot as often as you fine lady & gentlemen, I 've not felt the S&W was at the ragged edge of anything. NO FTFs, either with el-cheepo 115gr FMJ or heavy reloads featuring 124gr Hornady XTP. NO Magazine sensitivity, although I've just kept using the same type of magazine the factory does, why not?!

[JMS]

The Henchwoman has a Nighthawk Talon II, and lives in NY. In the interests of her not having to risk driving with her pistola(s) through NYC to attend classes and whatnot down here -- and as a range toy for myself -- I picked up a SA Range Officer in 9mm. She'll just have to build a bridge and get over the fact that mine's not a Commander-length gun...:cool:

Only 700 or so rounds on it, so far; may be more, haven't counted box-tops yet. Positively scoured Todd's 1911 test-gun threads, and since the thing came with a 9# spring, I went with Pistol Pete's suggestion of the Wilson flat-wire recoil spring kit and Glock 17 springs in 11, 13, and 15# (since the kit comes with a 17.5#, perhaps a bit to much...). The 13# Glock spring, I now have a far better idea of what folks actually mean when they say something "shoots flat." Gods, it's like shooting a Ruger MkIII. Fun!

Other component changes:
Magpul grips - For only $20, I can try nearly anything. Generous thumb-cut makes reaching the mag release a lot easier, and the portion that shrouds the plunger tube is molded further forward than just about any other grips I've seen; the ball of my left thumb isn't getting pinched by the safety lever any more, and...

Ambi safety - ...the levers on the Wilson BulletProof are shorter than the one that came with the gun, so I think I'll be able to stop enduring blood-blisters. Besides, disengaging the safety when shooting WHO as it is out of the box = huge PITA, and Henchwoman's gun is ambi.

That damned adjustable TPA nonsense has gotta GO, looking at the Harrison rear sight to replace that. Not gonna be a carry gun, so that'll be blank, and if I need to change the front as a result, I wanna try a brass bead.

It's gonna get a mag chute. My reloads are slow enough with tapered mags

[farscott]

The Harrison rear is a good choice as is the new Heinie EZ-Lock. I have the Harrison on a few guns, so I am going to be giving the EZ-Lock a try on my 9x19 RO.

[JMS]

Aha, thanks, I hadn't seen those yet.