That is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

[PPGMD]

44 years ago by my clock.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMINSD7MmT4

[da6dspanburg]

Thanks for the reminder. I remember watching it.....


david

[Tamara]

That just depresses the kitten out of me anymore.

It's so epic; our species' crowning achievement thus far; and yet, in the long run, so... petty.

If NASA was in charge of exploring the west, Lewis and Clark would have set out in a massive 100-ft long Conestoga wagon built with parts from subcontractors in all seventeen states, planted a flag on the Pacific coast, and we'd still be wondering if humans had any business on the far side of the Mississippi without extensive government support.

[PPGMD]

That just depresses the kitten out of me anymore.

It's so epic; our species' crowning achievement thus far; and yet, in the long run, so... petty.

If NASA was in charge of exploring the west, Lewis and Clark would have set out in a massive 100-ft long Conestoga wagon built with parts from subcontractors in all seventeen states, planted a flag on the Pacific coast, and we'd still be wondering if humans had any business on the far side of the Mississippi without extensive government support.

One of NASA's biggest issue is the White House, every 4-8 years they get a new direction which often means that the programs get canceled just as they are making progress. Ares I was just starting the test launches when it was canceled, yes it was over budget and behind schedule. But where are we now? Designing another rocket system that will just start launching as the next administration enters office, just in time to get canceled again.

Out of all the things in our budget NASA's space program, in particular the manned space flight is one of the items that I have ZERO issues with. If our species is to survive in the long term we have to be a two planet species, even better would be a two solar system species.

Anyways I will leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlLmESPWyw

[Spr1]

I watched that live. It was an exciting time in America.

Just to totally depress us..... I am relatively certain that with the amount of money our national debt has grown by in the last few years, we could have had a self sustaining colony on the moon, ships on the way to Mars, and recapitalized our Military to the point the Chinese said maybe it would just be safer to not be a superpower other than in toys and cell phones.

[PPGMD]

I watched that live. It was an exciting time in America.

Just to totally depress us..... I am relatively certain that with the amount of money our national debt has grown by in the last few years, we could have had a self sustaining colony on the moon, ships on the way to Mars, and recapitalized our Military to the point the Chinese said maybe it would just be safer to not be a superpower other than in toys and cell phones.

These Chinese aren't a superpower, though they do have quite a large industrial influence they lack the ability to project power outside their local region.

[Tamara]

Out of all the things in our budget NASA's space program, in particular the manned space flight is one of the items that I have ZERO issues with. If our species is to survive in the long term we have to be a two planet species, even better would be a two solar system species.

I don't necessarily have an issue with the amount spent, per se, but rather how lamely it's spent. Von Braun's original plan was scrapped in favor of a giant bottle rocket to beat the Commies to the moon for the PR value. I flip though old Chelsey Bonestell books and just weep.

I'll just leave this here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PGYe64zSN8

[Spr1]

These Chinese aren't a superpower, though they do have quite a large industrial influence they lack the ability to project power outside their local region.

Yet

[Morbidbattlecry]

I don't necessarily have an issue with the amount spent, per se, but rather how lamely it's spent. Von Braun's original plan was scrapped in favor of a giant bottle rocket to beat the Commies to the moon for the PR value. I flip though old Chelsey Bonestell books and just weep.

I'll just leave this here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PGYe64zSN8

What was his original plan? Are you talking about the mars mission proposed in the 1950s? Oh god i just found it. It would have never worked.

[Tamara]

What was his original plan? Are you talking about the mars mission proposed in the 1950s?

No, I was referring to the idea that a permanent manned space station needed to be built to serve as a jump-off for whatever we were going to be doing, lunar or otherwise. Without that, the entire Apollo program was just a big bottle rocket pointed at the moon for the photo ops.

A permanently manned space station would have been sold to Congress for military reasons (whether it was more efficient for surveillance purposes than unmanned satellites is beside the point in the long run, at least for the purpose of space exploration.) Once the .mil had signed onto it, it would have become relatively permanent because we could not allow a space station gap. And from Roman castra at Colchester to Ft. Kearny to (at least to a lesser extent) MacMurdo Station, wherever the .mil sets up permanent housekeeping, civil commerce somehow follows.

As it is, the Apollo program was momentarily spectacular but insignificant in the long term; the difference between a 4th of July skyrocket and a DC-3.

[Joe in PNG]

And, had we a permanant station starting in the sixties, you have a nice place to piece together an interplanatary Orion or two..

Hell, we could have O'neill cylinders by now!!! grrrr...

[Clyde from Carolina]

As it is, the Apollo program was momentarily spectacular but insignificant in the long term; the difference between a 4th of July skyrocket and a DC-3.

That is a well-turned phrase, but I have to disagree. Although the Apollo program was largely-PR driven and symbolic in nature, how could anything that will still be talked about in a thousand years be equated to the difference between a DC-3 and a 4th of July rocket? I mean, I think I know what you mean...the lack of follow-up and all. But jeez, a few thousand years ago we were walking around with spears in our hands and to then put men...on...the Moon?

I would say it was significant if for no other reason than to show how far these ape-like creatures had evolved.

[Tamara]

But jeez, a few thousand years ago we were walking around with spears in our hands and to then put men...on...the Moon?

The spears weren't as much use if we couldn't fetch 'em back and use 'em again. ;)

As far as the overall neat-o factor, though, you have a point. I think The Onion had the VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK (http://www.theonion.com/articles/july-21-1969,10515/) right of it. :)

[TAZ]

That just depresses the kitten out of me anymore.

It's so epic; our species' crowning achievement thus far; and yet, in the long run, so... petty.

If NASA was in charge of exploring the west, Lewis and Clark would have set out in a massive 100-ft long Conestoga wagon built with parts from subcontractors in all seventeen states, planted a flag on the Pacific coast, and we'd still be wondering if humans had any business on the far side of the Mississippi without extensive government support.

Agree with most of your post, but comparing the move west to lunar exploration is not truly a fair comparison. Wanna bet had Armstrong or any of the others come back with its full of oil or gold or unobtanium we would have a full blow lunar station by now. Lewis and Clark came back with its full of water, lumber and other resources that we need. NASA came back with its full of $$ vacuums. Even with all the $$ vacuums out there I'd still rather have my tax $$ go to further space exploration and spin off consumer technologies than to Egypt or Detroit.

[Tamara]

Even with all the $$ vacuums out there I'd still rather have my tax $$ go to further space exploration and spin off consumer technologies than to Egypt or Detroit.

Tax dollars? Heck, you can wait for the IPO (http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2013/07/16/planetary-resources-asteroid-miner.html). :)

[Morbidbattlecry]

No, I was referring to the idea that a permanent manned space station needed to be built to serve as a jump-off for whatever we were going to be doing, lunar or otherwise. Without that, the entire Apollo program was just a big bottle rocket pointed at the moon for the photo ops.

A permanently manned space station would have been sold to Congress for military reasons (whether it was more efficient for surveillance purposes than unmanned satellites is beside the point in the long run, at least for the purpose of space exploration.) Once the .mil had signed onto it, it would have become relatively permanent because we could not allow a space station gap. And from Roman castra at Colchester to Ft. Kearny to (at least to a lesser extent) MacMurdo Station, wherever the .mil sets up permanent housekeeping, civil commerce somehow follows.

As it is, the Apollo program was momentarily spectacular but insignificant in the long term; the difference between a 4th of July skyrocket and a DC-3.

Getting the government to do things by saying the commies are doing it is a honored tradition. So that might have worked. Hell, someone in the airforce conned them into almost building a nuclear powered bomber. Just because the russians where doing it. And don't get me started on the Orion project. You want to see how insane this idea was? What this lol http://www.ted.com/talks/george_dyson_on_project_orion.html