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jlw
07-18-2013, 10:28 PM
Semi-Automatic Pistol 3

This week I attended the Semi-Automatic Pistol 3 course taught at the Georgia Public Safety Training Center. This a 32-hour reactive shooting course based upon the Rogers Shooting School courses. The instructor that developed the course is a Rogers graduate, and coincidentally is retired from the training center, now works for a Sheriff’s Office, and was in the class as a student as was another Rogers graduate. Both said that this course and the Rogers course are very similar but that Rogers is faster.

Layout

I was not able to get picture or video of the range facility. POST rules are that tests cannot be recorded, and as I was a student in the class, recording how the system works would have been recording the test. The range is set up with four shooting booths. Arrayed in front of each booth are six targets. Targets 1, 2, 5, and 6 are steel silhouettes with pneumatic heads that can be raised and lowered. They are on hinges so that they fall over when hit. Target 1 is at seven yards and directly in front of the shooter. Target 2 is set up so that it can also simulate a hostage shot. It is to the right of target 1 and is about 10 yards from the shooter. Targets 4 and 5 are full silhouettes that lean out of either side of a wall. They are about 10 yards from the shooter and to the extreme left of the shooting lane. Target 5 is at 12 yards and to the left of target 1 but to the right of targets 4 and 5, and target 6 is at 15 yards on a line placing it between targets 1 and 5.


On any given course of fire, the heads would raise or the leaners would pop out from behind the wall. In most cases (every instance on the test), a head shot was required on those targets with the pneumatic head, and a head shot didn’t count unless the head fell over. There were some “failure drills” as well requiring shots to the body and the head. Frangible ammunition was used in the course.

Target Math

The target exposure times roughly breaks down as follows:



Shots from the holster had an exposure of 1.5 seconds.
Shots from low ready had an exposure of .5 seconds
Shots from the transition ready had an exposure of .75 seconds
Transitions and followup shots were .25 seconds each


Three levels of certificate were available: Basic, Intermediate, and Advanced. They had to be earned in that order. There were 78 freestyle (both hands) presentations, 12 support hand only presentations, and 10 strong hand only presentations in the test. Hitting 80% of the freestyle presentations earned a student a Basic Certification. Subsequently, 80% of those strong hand only earned an Intermediate, and 80% of those support hand only earned an Advanced. There were three runs on the test. As noted above, the certificates must be earned in order. If a student pulled off 80% of the support hand only shots but didn’t earn the Basic or Intermediate, the support hand only shots couldn’t be banked for a subsequent test; however, once a lower certificate was earned it counted towards remainder of the class.

Competition

The maximum students allowed in the class is 20 although we didn’t have that many. The class is divided into relays of four shooters each. On the first day, everyone shoots in alphabetical order. On the subsequent days, shooters are in the order in which they scored on the previous day. In other words, the top shooter on day one is first booth/first relay on day two; so, each shooter knows exactly where they stand.

Firearms

On the Friday preceding the class, I qualified with a Gen4 Glock 19 (G19/4) and a M&P45. Both pistols are equipped with Ameriglo “Hack” sights. The G19/4 was recently received prize pistol from a GSSF match. I use the M&P45 in IDPA CDP. I previously took this class in 2007 earning an Advanced certificate with a Gen3 Glock 19.

I decided to shoot this time with the G19/4 to get some trigger time with it. This would prove to not be the wisest of choices. On the aforementioned qualification runs, I shot two scores of 100 with the M&P45. With the 19/4, I had a few shots, including both head shots, just above the 10 point box (highest point value on qualification target). I believed this to be due to shooting error.

The Class

On the first day, we spent till lunch in the classroom taking care of the administrative matters as well as conducting a session on use of force law and another on reactive shooting. The rest of the day was spent shooting drills on the range. The morning session of day two was all range drills. The afternoon session of day two was our first run on the test. I achieved both the Basic and Intermediate on this attempt but missed the Advanced by one plate.

Day three’s morning was a series of strong hand only drills. The afternoon of day three was the second run on the test. I again failed to earn the Advanced. I noticed that on target 6 that I had to put the top of the front sight just above “chin level” on the head or I would shoot over the top of the head. It proved difficult to be that precise at 15 yards in less than .5 seconds with the support hand only.

Day four, which began with support hand only drills, rolled around, and I decided to switch to the M&P45. This worked out well as I achieved the Advanced certificate and got 95 out of 100 presentations. Two of those misses were the result of miscounting during an 18-presentation freestyle string and initiating a reload at the wrong point. One was a strong hand only shot on target 5, and the other two were support hand only shots.

Afterward

First, the weather in Georgia in July is hot an humid. When I took the class in 2007, it was held in September, and it wasn’t as grueling physically as this session. I also need to get the sights correctly regulated on the G19/4.

There were 13 students in the class to start. One was dismissed due to a safety violation. Four didn’t achieve a Basic certificate. The two Rogers graduates and I were the only shooters to achieve the Advanced certificate. I tied for top shooter on the first day. I was fourth on the second day, third on the third day, and I was either first or second on day four.

Dave Williams
07-19-2013, 09:07 AM
I shot there a bit, pretty awesome. Do they still let Georgia Officers train for free? If you beat Ernie Tobin you must be pretty good.

jlw
07-19-2013, 10:22 AM
I shot there a bit, pretty awesome. Do they still let Georgia Officers train for free? If you beat Ernie Tobin you must be pretty good.


Yes. The ammo is furnished to students for the class. We averaged around 750 rounds per student.

Although Ernie is also retired, Ben Cochran is the one who developed the course and was in the class. I tied him one day and beat him one day. He got me the other two.

I'm pretty good at reaction and speed based stuff. My stages one and two on the IDPA classifier are within the breakdown for the master level. Stage three keeps me as an EX, and I don't play the game all that well. Close in, I've also been able with a USPSA Grand Master. The difference is that he could still do it past 15 at the same speeds, and I couldn't. Ben is definitely a better all around shooter than am I.

Dave Williams
07-19-2013, 10:28 AM
My bad I thought Ernie was the guy who developed it. He is like a 6x Rogers adv grad.

jlw
07-19-2013, 11:12 AM
My bad I thought Ernie was the guy who developed it. He is like a 6x Rogers adv grad.

I think all of the original staff went to Rogers multiple times. There are several guys with the training center scheduled to go soon.

Dave Williams
07-19-2013, 11:46 AM
Also something interesting, Ernie's pistol of choice, 9mm P226.

jlw
07-19-2013, 12:34 PM
Also something interesting, Ernie's pistol of choice, 9mm P226.

I've seen him shoot the P220 a fair amount as well. He told me he went to the 9mm due to the sheer number of rounds they shot being on staff there.

jlw
08-06-2016, 11:19 AM
Thread resurrection time...

One of our instructors attended this course this past week. They have changed the scoring format to one akin to the Rogers in that now it is a total number of plates for each level of certificate. This is significantly easier, in my opinion, than the previous scoring format (see original post).

Our guy took a picture of the target array. They are numbered close to far.

9699

1 and 2 both have falling heads. 3 and 4 are leaning silhouettes. 5 and 6 have falling heads. 1 is at seven yards. 6 is at 15 yards.

Dave Williams
08-06-2016, 12:27 PM
Very cool, wish I was a cop in Georgia so I could take this class for FREE!

jlw
08-06-2016, 12:35 PM
Very cool, wish I was a cop in Georgia so I could take this class for FREE!

I have a spot open. ;)

Lon
08-06-2016, 01:12 PM
Can out of state LEOs attend?

jlw
08-06-2016, 01:15 PM
Can out of state LEOs attend?

I'm not sure of the answer for that. If so, I imagine there would be fees attached. However, the 2017 GALEFI conference will be at GPSTC, and we will have control of the entire firearms complex. The membership fee and conference fee combined are only $110 or so.

jlw
05-18-2023, 03:05 PM
Thread necropsy:

I attended Semi-Auto 3 again this week. They have changed the scoring system to a total plate count. 95-100 is Advanced, 90-95 is Intermediate, and 80-89 is Basic.

I started out shooting my CZ P10C topped with an SRO. I had a couple of malfunctions during Day 1 to include one on the test that cost me several rounds. I ended up with a 93.

On Day 2's drill session, I had another malfunction; so, I pulled the recoil spring out of my other P10C and shot a 99 with the dropped plate coming on a support hand only stage.

on Day 3's test, I had another malfunction and held five shots. I missed another two...

These pistols were both bought in 2020 and still have the original springs in them. I should have already changed them. I'm ordering new springs today.

Day 4: I broke out my Shadow Systems MR920 which is topped with an EPS.

By the hair of my chinny chin chin, I shot a 100.

This class has been around since 2000. In that time, only six people had cleaned including one person who is also one of the handful to clean the actual Rogers course. Another shooter, who was shooting an LTT 92 topped with an SRO also cleaned it to be #7. I'm #8.

babypanther
06-21-2023, 07:24 PM
To the out of state LEO question yes you can, I was just at the NTOA Ballistic Shield course, but you have to bring your own ammo. I was at the facility in Forsythe, it was outstanding.


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