J Frame died on the range today.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I was shooting with someone showing him the revolver manipulations I learned in the de Bethencourt class so he could get an idea of how to manage ammo and reload the wheel gun...when all of a sudden it died.

The trigger is dead. Does not move the hammer at all.

Wasn't his fault. May not even have been mine...even though I've probably dry-fired the gun to death.

It's not a new gun, it's a Model-49 and it appears to be about 30 or more years old, so it was probably due for something to happen.

It appears to be just one of those things.

It's going back to S&W and I'm sure they will take care of me, but it was a good warning about if it can break, it will.

Also, it was a good lesson on revolvers - they don't break often, but when they do, they go down HARD.

[Wheeler]

I was shooting with someone showing him the revolver manipulations I learned in the de Bethencourt class so he could get an idea of how to manage ammo and reload the wheel gun...when all of a sudden it died.

The trigger is dead. Does not move the hammer at all.

Wasn't his fault. May not even have been mine...even though I've probably dry-fired the gun to death.

It's not a new gun, it's a Model-49 and it appears to be about 30 or more years old, so it was probably due for something to happen.

It appears to be just one of those things.

It's going back to S&W and I'm sure they will take care of me, but it was a good warning about if it can break, it will.

Also, it was a good lesson on revolvers - they don't break often, but when they do, they go down HARD.

That they do, wait until you get a high primer stuck on the milled notches on the back of the frame on either side of the firing pin hole. Worse, wait until that happens with a hard primer that didn't go bang when the firing pin hit it.... If only I had a chunk of coal that day, I could have made a diamond...

[Tamara]

FWIW, if it goes back to Smith, they'll probably offer to replace it with something from the current catalog; a 638, most likely.

If you have strong feelings about the internal lock, it might be worth seeing about having a good 'smith repair it.

[rsa-otc]

The trigger is dead. Does not move the hammer at all.


The sear is stuck or more probably the sear spring broke. A good revolver smith should be able to fix this no problem.:cool:

[Mitchell, Esq.]

It's not under waranty so no free shipping and work

The work is gonna cost about $60 per S&W + Shipping (another $60).

I'm using the local gunsmith. He's got a good rep, and it will be cheaper than sending it out.

Anything else I should ask to be gone over, or replaced?

[BobM]

This may be a topic for a separate thread but partly for this reason I have a spare 642 standing by in the safe just in case.

[Chuck Haggard]

This may be a topic for a separate thread but partly for this reason I have a spare 642 standing by in the safe just in case.

This is why my 642 that I carry as a BUG in my weak side pocket on duty has another almost just like it on my ankle.

I figure if two is one, and one is none, then three is like at least one and a half, maybe even two.

[Tamara]

I figure if two is one, and one is none, then three is like at least one and a half, maybe even two.
That's fricken sigline material right there.

This is why on most days there's a 1911 on my hip, a J-frame in a jacket or vest pocket, and an L-frame in my purse. I figure if I'm bringing the jacket and the purse along anyway, they might as well hold a spare gun...

[Wheeler]

It's not under waranty so no free shipping and work

The work is gonna cost about $60 per S&W + Shipping (another $60).

I'm using the local gunsmith. He's got a good rep, and it will be cheaper than sending it out.

Anything else I should ask to be gone over, or replaced?

If you're going to spend the money, I'd have them look at all the springs, clockwork, verify the timing and lock up, and if he's setup for it, check to see if the frame is still in specs. I have no idea what that will cost.

I thought S&W had a lifetime warranty?

[BWT]

If you're going to spend the money, I'd have them look at all the springs, clockwork, verify the timing and lock up, and if he's setup for it, check to see if the frame is still in specs. I have no idea what that will cost.

I thought S&W had a lifetime warranty?

As someone who's looking into buying one very soon, that was my perception as well.

[jslaker]

But the nice man at the gun store told me that revolvers always work? :confused:

[fuse]

That's fricken sigline material right there.

This is why on most days there's a 1911 on my hip, a J-frame in a jacket or vest pocket, and an L-frame in my purse. I figure if I'm bringing the jacket and the purse along anyway, they might as well hold a spare gun...

Achievement unlocked: ninja

[rsa-otc]

I thought S&W had a lifetime warranty?

They do on their current product line manufactured under the recent ownership. If the gun was manufactured by previous ownership it doesn't get covered.


I don't have the knack of multi quoting down yet so bare with me here:

commandar
"But the nice man at the gun store told me that revolvers always work?"

Mostly they do, but they are man made machines and are subject to wear, tear and the occasional manufacturing defect. I have been shooting revolvers since I was in my early teens, started carrying them in 1977 when I turn 18 and started shooting competitively when I turned 19. Over the last 30 plus years I have been responsible for a company issued inventory of at times up to 100 revolvers. We have revolvers in inventory that were purchased in the early 70's that are still running, original springs and all, with no more than cleaning and the yearly functionality check. These guns have not been babied and see a minimum of 750 rounds a year.


Also, it was a good lesson on revolvers - they don't break often, but when they do, they go down HARD.

I've heard it more than once said that when a revolver goes down you need a gun smith but with an auto you can get it up and running there and then. (or something similar to that). I was going to cite earlier that I had yet to personally see a revolver failure that if an auto suffered something similar it wouldn't have to go to the gunsmith as well.

That being said and Karma being what it is; last night at our monthly IDPA match it bit me square in the backside. I had a squib round and after making sure that there was the appropriate number of holes in the target I finished the cylinder and went to reload. I don't know what debris that squib round left in the gun but after charging the cylinder we couldn't get it to close and turn with the fresh rounds. I had to do a complete tear down of the cylinder mechanism at home & clean it thoroughly to get the gun up and running. This is a gun that previously completed Todd's 2000 round test with both lead and jacketed ammo without a hiccup.

That will teach me. LOL

[FotoTomas]

About 25 years ago I was training with a Colt Trooper MkIII that I carried for police duty. The trigger broke completely disabling the revolver. Dead as a door nail. A new trigger fixed it right up BUT I promptly sold it down the river. Later on another training day had me shooting my S&W Model 38 Bodyguard. After the first two rounds the gun locked up and it too was dead as a door nail. I found a small metal ball about the size of a #8 birdshot had jammed up the lockwork. I have no idea where it came from but the revolver was my primary pocket gun at the time. It worked fine but I traded it off too for a +P rated 638. I also had a few get tied up shooting my reloads that were not crimped properly.

It has been my experience that when a revolver jams or breaks it does it HARD.

[Chuck Haggard]

Back in the days when we issued model 66 S&Ws at my job it was common for folks to be unable to complete a 60 round qual without having the gun jam up, normally it was powder residue under the extractor star or something else simple to fix with a quick cleaning, but sometimes they would manage to get a case rim under the star and that was a real show stopper.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

The M-49 gets another chance at De Bethencourt's class on 9/18/11...

Since I got it back it has been a dry fire gun.

[Tamara]

J Frame dies on the range today.

OT, but every time I see this thread title in the forum list, my brain adds "Doo-dah! Doo-dah! J Frame died on the range today, oh-de-doo-dah-day!"

[Josh Runkle]

I was shooting with someone showing him the revolver manipulations I learned in the de Bethencourt class so he could get an idea of how to manage ammo and reload the wheel gun...when all of a sudden it died.

The trigger is dead. Does not move the hammer at all.

Wasn't his fault. May not even have been mine...even though I've probably dry-fired the gun to death.

It's not a new gun, it's a Model-49 and it appears to be about 30 or more years old, so it was probably due for something to happen.

It appears to be just one of those things.

It's going back to S&W and I'm sure they will take care of me, but it was a good warning about if it can break, it will.

Also, it was a good lesson on revolvers - they don't break often, but when they do, they go down HARD.

I had this happen last year, looked it over, turned out to be old oil/grease and dirt/sediment preventing the cylinder from spinning, and thus preventing the trigger from being pulled and the hammer from moving. Just needed a good cleaning.

[Josh Runkle]

But the nice man at the gun store told me that revolvers always work? :confused:

:D

[JeffJ]

OT, but every time I see this thread title in the forum list, my brain adds "Doo-dah! Doo-dah! J Frame died on the range today, oh-de-doo-dah-day!"

Damnit Tam! Just found myself doing this.

[Lost River]

That's fricken sigline material right there.

This is why on most days there's a 1911 on my hip, a J-frame in a jacket or vest pocket, and an L-frame in my purse. I figure if I'm bringing the jacket and the purse along anyway, they might as well hold a spare gun...

Holy necropost!!!

I know this is old but my wife thinks that's some funny stuff, and likes that a girl is packing some serious iron....

Doo dah, doo dah....

[Lost River]

OT, but every time I see this thread title in the forum list, my brain adds "Doo-dah! Doo-dah! J Frame died on the range today, oh-de-doo-dah-day!"

Doo dah!!

[Coyotesfan97]

Oh Doo Dah Day!

[DacoRoman]

This is why my 642 that I carry as a BUG in my weak side pocket on duty has another almost just like it on my ankle.

I figure if two is one, and one is none, then three is like at least one and a half, maybe even two.

Sorry to pile on the necropost…but I think I just got a tactical man crush right there

[DocGKR]

The 2 is 1, 1 is none thing has been around for at least the past 3 decades in military and LE context.

I was at the range last week and watched a recently produced J-frame completely lock-up.

[Moonshot]

Origionally posted by DocGKR

I was at the range last week and watched a recently produced J-frame completely lock-up.

Just out of morbid curiosity, can you shed some light on which model of J-frame? What ammo was being used? What was the nature of the jam? Was this something that could have been prevented, or was it just the luck of the draw?

[DocGKR]

Was not my revolver, so no clue--was some type of new hammerless, like a 642, firing .38 sp, not .357 Mag. It was locked up tight, trigger not moving, cylinder not rotating, unable to open cylinder.

[Chuck Haggard]

Sounds like a squib in the forcing cone, or a backed out primer.

[Moonshot]

Someone once told me that a big advantage of the old style revolver - exposed hammer, hammer spur, firing pin on hammer, was to allow for the hammer to pull a stuck firing pin out of a backed out primer. Didn't happen often, but when it did it tied up the gun.

Maybe that is what happened here.

[Talking Monkey]

sometimes they would manage to get a case rim under the star and that was a real show stopper.

Saw this happen a couple weeks ago at an IDPA practice session. I believe it was a 686 SSR. It was indeed a show stopper.

[jh9]

Saw this happen a couple weeks ago at an IDPA practice session. I believe it was a 686 SSR. It was indeed a show stopper.

If it was a competition piece I wonder if it had been chamfered too hard. I've seen some clip guns that had some extensive chamfering and they still worked because clips. No clips, though, and there's just not enough extractor left to get the empties all the way out 100% of the time.

Generally S&W puts a very conservative chamfer on their cylinders advertised as such. I presume this is the reason the ends of the fingers aren't touched, so it looks ovular compared to what go-fast smiths will put on a clip gun like so (https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608013047171319524&pid=15.1&P=0).

[Chuck Haggard]

If you get a piece of brass behind the extractor star, most people panic and try to just the ejector rod hard a few times. That no workee. Just reach up and pull the star away from the cylinder while holding the gun so that gravity helps, this will get the brass out from behind the star

[NEPAKevin]

I have a "D-jammer" tools that I bought years ago after reading about it in one of Ayoob's articles. One of the things it does work well at is clearing the brass under the star problem.