People ask me .....

[DamonL]

When people ask you what gun do you recommend, what do you tell them?

Tons of posts like this here and I have read many of them.

Here is my problem recommending a pistol for self defense/plinking.

A Glock 17/19 is good but....
A Smith and Wesson M&P 9FS/9compact is good but...
A Beretta 92 is good but...

Etc. etc. etc.

I want to recommend a 9mm semi auto, but I have downsides to every common recommendation. Most people who ask me will not perform a 1000 or 2000 round test of their pistol to ensure reliability. If they would do that, then its easy to recommend a pistol. The most common problem is buying a quality gun because of price followed by actually firing a box of ammo through the gun.

So here is my question.

What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?

[vaglocker]

Still recommend a 9mm Glock.

[Kyle Reese]

9mm P30.

*Edit*
Apologies for a curt reply. Recently, my father decided to become the owner of a modern, semiautomatic handgun. He selected the 9mm P30L, V3 in early May 2013. He asked for my input, and indicated that this would most likely be his one and only new handgun, and he did not wish to purchase a striker fired handgun (he likes traditional DA/SA). He indicated that since this would be his one hurrah, price point was relatively unimportant (within reason).

When looking to purchase, he wanted a handgun that was durable, reliable and possessed a high degree of mechanical accuracy. We took a drive down to the local gun shop, and they had a P30L sitting there. A couple was ahead of us in line, and the wife was examining the pistol. She indicated that she liked everything about it, but the husband stated that he'd never heard of the HK brand, and they left the store to "think on it". Their mistake became his gain. :)

Long story short, he's been shooting about 100 rounds a week thru the P30L, and is very pleased with it in every regard.

[orionz06]

Find me a gun without downsides.

The P30 is close, it really is.

[nycnoob]

You might find this essay helpful, the issue is not exactly what you asked about but it is related.

Oh, and I understand the author knows a thing or two about guns


The Issued Gun
18-Oct-12 – 10:13 by ToddG

Off the top of my head if I had to pick one, it would be the Glock 17.
(http://pistol-training.com/archives/7433)


What I am suggesting is that a "first" gun, is similar to an "issued gun" since you do not know much about the subject and are really relying on others recommendations, who hopeful have more experience. Hence it should be chosen to be "good enough for most people to get started in most uses" and avoid the "real lemons" (I see this as a similar situation to an "Issued Gun"). After you have used it a while you will know enough to buy a second gun which may be more personalized to your desires.


I will also say that nearly every instructor I have taken a class from carries a Glock, perhaps they have other weapons too but they all carry Glocks so that is why I started with one.

[ToddG]

What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?

In all seriousness, just about any widely used gun -- Glock, Smith, HK, Ruger, Springfield, Beretta, SIG, etc. -- will probably make it through 100 rounds without a problem. And any of them could have a problem. I'm more confident with HK's QC and HK's test fire procedure than most of the others, but again candidly for a gun that's never really going to be shot it seems like overkill.

It's hard to get too wrapped up in mechanical details for someone who's not going to learn how to operate the pistol properly to begin with.

[jetfire]

What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?

I'd mention that the voodoo shop down the street has some really bitchin' magical talismans, since that appears to be what they're actually looking for.

[Jay Cunningham]

I'd recommend a stainless Ruger GP100 revolver in either 3" or 4.2" barrel length and that they run it exclusively with .38 special ammunition.

[JSGlock34]

I recommend Glock 9mms to friends since I own several Glocks, they can try them out under my supervision, and I am comfortable performing armorer level work on them should they have any problems. I won't always be around to help out, but finding a local Glock armorer, spare parts or accessories isn't difficult. If they go to a class, chances are there will be plenty of Glocks around and the instructor will be familiar with one, if not using a Glock. The price of entry is also reasonable, and if they decide they like something better later on, the Glock holds resale value fairly well - and they'll have invested time learning how to operate one of the most common service pistols in the world.

Outside of the Glock I recommend the S&W M&P 9mm - while I don't own one I've observed more than a few and am confident they are a solid choice. But they're on their own if they need support; thankfully S&W has excellent customer service.

If someone wants to spend the extra coin on a HK, I'm hardly going to argue. But it's the platform I'm least familiar with, and the price of entry is higher.

[ToddG]

I'd recommend a stainless Ruger GP100 revolver in either 3" or 4.2" barrel length and that they run it exclusively with .38 special ammunition.

I waver back and forth on the revolver-for-beginner thing.

Pros:

simple
self-correcting mechanism for ammo induced stoppages
gun induced stoppages rare enough (and often complicated enough) that it's not worth going into with a new & casual shooter
very easy to load & unload
very easy to tell if the gun is loaded or unloaded
heavy trigger pull provides some protection against the unsafe gun handling common to new & casual shooters


Cons:

heavy trigger pull is a serious hindrance to accurate shooting for a poorly trained shooter
low capacity for a gun being wielded by a poorly trained shooter
reload procedure is slow and complicated for a poorly trained shooter


The revolver is ideal for someone who won't get into a shooting; it's a poor choice for the untrained person who will.

[Jay Cunningham]

Within the following parameters:

"What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?"

I won't hesitate recommending the revolver as described. If someone has a gun and a willingness to use it to defend their life, they're already way ahead of the power curve.

If someone desires actual training and a displays a willingness to practice, then I'll change my recommendation to suit those parameters.

[Joseph B.]

Glock 19 Gen 3 would be my advice. I still believe the glock is the easier pistol to become proficient with to a basic level. For someone with little time and ammo to invest a G19 and a quality built holster is probably IMHO the best way to go.

[Tamara]

Cons:

heavy trigger pull is a serious hindrance to accurate shooting for a poorly trained shooter
low capacity for a gun being wielded by a poorly trained shooter
reload procedure is slow and complicated for a poorly trained shooter



This exactly.

Back in the day, when po-po trade-in K-frames were still cheap as dirt and common as rocks, I used to sell packages consisting of an old Model 10/13/64/65 revolver, with an old nylon holster, eyes, ears, a cleaning kit, a box of ball and a box of them there Hydro-Shocks(sic) for two bills or so. Then I worked at an indoor range for a while and got to see plenty of people shoot quals for the state permit.

Now I personally think it may actually be easier to teach a complete novice to load and unload a G19 safely than it is to teach them to hit the side of a barn with a long thirteen-pound DA trigger, and even if their aim still ain't the best, they get fourteen mulligans instead of five.

Unless there's a particularly compelling reason to suggest something else, my answer to "What gun?" for years has been "Glock 19."

(Mind you, I'd still love to be able to sell those self-defense packages...)

[David Armstrong]

from DamonL:
What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?
I agree with Jay. Given the declared parameters, I would, have, and do recommend a good quality revolver in .38 Spl. That has been the default for many for decades and I haven't seen anything that would cause me to change my mind. With minimal training you have a weapon that is user friendly regarding safety, use and maintenance and will suffice for most CCW situations.

[Josh Runkle]

I recommend either Glock, Sig, Beretta, Hk, or an M&P in 9mm. Try to ensure that they buy the largest one possible.(They'll usually say they that the glock 26 fit their hand, but they bought the glock 19...or they still bought the 26) I don't say this because "bigger is better" or something. I only say this because almost everyone around here buys a gun they can't even get a grip on because it's so small, and then they want to learn how to shoot it. I tell people that if they like Glock, for example, to rent the one they want and the next size up and then see which they like better.

[1986s4]

What gun to recommend?
To me it depends on how it is to be used. A pistol that spends it's life in the sock and undergarment drawer had better be able to work if and when it's needed [if the owner remembers where it is..]. If used it will be used indoors, bad breath distance, maybe other side of the room. A revolver fits nicely here but a G17 would work too if it is in a state of readiness.
A pistol intended to be carried, shot in training and competition? I have several I like and if you are on this forum you probably do too.
1986s4

[Al T.]

Around here, price is often a concern. For the money, I've found that the Ruger P95 with decocker can often be had for about 250ish. My experience with four owned by friends and several more seen on the range has been very positive.

[VolGrad]

What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?
First, I'd recommend they not do this. :cool:

Then I guess given the parameters I'd say what I always say, "G19." My second/third choice would be either a M&P9 or M&P9c, depending on the intended use.

[ford.304]

From my limited experience with a few novices... I'd say that .38 special out of a full size Ruger is about as close to .22 as you can get in terms of recoil and and still actually stop anybody. I've had several novices shooting pretty good groups within one session with my GP100, and then spend the whole next session flinching every which way with a Glock 19. Almost everyone whom I start on my revolver and my .22 semi-auto wants to go back to my revolver when we start stepping up to the kind of semi-automatics I try to recommend that they actually buy.

The Glock is in nearly every way a better choice if you are going to practice to become better, but I don't know that on a medium frame revolver the trigger is that big of an impediment to basic shooting.

Also, as much as I disagree with the talisman mindset, the news is full of stories of people who managed to find that magic. I will take someone who is armed and has at least thought about defending themselves over someone who isn't any day, for all that we *wish* they would take things farther.

[hufnagel]

One that fits their budget (recognizing their budget might be a moving target, once they become educated.)
One that they can comfortably hold.
One that they'll be able to afford to shoot regularly.

That being said I'm an HK snob and addict, so I lean towards...
P30 v3 9mm
P2000sk v3 9mm
HK45 v1 (if they "gotta have a .45")

[JBP55]

Glock or M&P, for most and I mention the HK pistols for the few that can afford them.

[Kobalt60]

It really depends on the person and what their next steps are likely to be. For the most part, my recommendations would be among Beretta 92, Sig P226, P220, P229, almost any medium or large frame S&W .38 or .357 revolver. I'd avoid recommending a polymer frame handgun to a new shooter, especially one that won't practice regularly with it due to "limp wrist" malfunctions, but also because they won't be able to customize the grip to their hand with grip panels and front/backstraps. I think comfort is really important to newer shooters. The P30 is an exception, but really expensive and probably not a good "beginner's gun" in the same way that a BMW M3 is not a good "beginner's car". I would tend to avoid striker fired guns because of safety reasons. New shooters are more likely to keep guns as range queens, and I believe range guns are better off having manual safeties or DA/SA triggers. New shooters are also more likely to experiment with crappy holsters, which can lead to accidents when a trigger press is the only thing keeping the gun from going bang.

[DamonL]

It seems the recommendations remain the same, Glock, M&P, and HK. I use to suggest revolvers, too, but that doesn't seem to be an answer people want to hear nowadays.

My initial post is my order of recommended pistols by the way. I almost always recommended the Glock but they had that period of problems so I am not as confident as I use to be. I know most people on this board are shooters and work out any issues with their guns through a period of time. Its these friends of friends who ask me what gun would I recommend that I worry about.

With the parameters I gave, I see the revolver and the Ruger 9mm showed up, too. I like the S&W 3rd gen pistols, too, when you can find them at a good price.

[Suvorov]

A coworker just asked me about getting into the shooting sports as my reputation had preceded me. He grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and had never fired a gun until recently when he went rednecking with a friend in Georgia. I assumed he was talking handguns but it turned out he was talking guns in general as well as training. The answer was quick. A Ruger 1022, Tech Sights, a sling, and an Appleseed clinic.

I realize that this doesn't exactly match the scope of the thread. But it is an example of how my handgun myopia made me want to send this guy down a road that he really wasn't wanting to go down. It also made me think if this isn't a better solution for many of the folks who ask me about getting a pistol.

[Chuck Haggard]

Many of the folks I talk to are living kind of in the boonies, they want a house gun but aren't gun people, worry about bad guys but also often have varmint problems.

A 10-22 with a 25 round mag, a few boxes of Velocitors and a 6P or similar light in a light mount makes, IMVHO, a most excellent house gun that will handle a great deal of the non-carry problems one might encounter in places without bears.

It would take a very well armored bad guy to stand in front of something like this at 0:43;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7CPUu8CKk8

[peterb]

Many of the folks I talk to are living kind of in the boonies, they want a house gun but aren't gun people, worry about bad guys but also often have varmint problems.

A 10-22 with a 25 round mag, a few boxes of Velocitors and a 6P or similar light in a light mount makes, IMVHO, a most excellent house gun that will handle a great deal of the non-carry problems one might encounter in places without bears.


Growing up in rural New Hampshire, it seemed that every household had a .22, a shotgun, and a deer rifle. They were just standard farm tools. Handguns were less common.

A .22 rifle and a shotgun will cover a wide variety of rural problems -- and provide a lot of recreation -- at minimal expense.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm going to go way out on a limb here. If I knew someone was going to buy a gun, MAYBE shoot it a few times, load it and put it in the sock drawer (better a pistol locker but I know how people are), and had little to zero interest in going out and training or plinking, I would strongly recommend a Centennial type snub with a fuller sized grip like the Hogues or Pachmayrs, best case a 640 with quality .38special ammo loaded up.

Yes, there are real issues with the shootability of a J frame, however I know of several cases where the dormant snub was used to save the day.
One in particular stands out, involving a home invasion, a FUT with gun grab thrown in, a flat latch model 36 and a box of Lawman ammo. That gun was loaded back in the day when 158gr RNL was "service loads" and sat in the drawer for over 40 years.

Best way to do business? No, far from it, but for that mission and the person involved it is likely the very best option.

[BWT]

Glock 9mm, pick the size you need for the individual's needs. 200 rounds of FMJ to test it and 50 of JHP of their choosing and they should be atleast confident in it.

It's the cheapest, easiest to service, most available handgun out there. There are better but there are many more that are Worse.

[Up1911Fan]

9mm Glock or M&P. Sig or HK if you don't mind DA/SA or the paddle mag release.

[TigerStripe]

For someone who wants a 9mm and doesn't plan on shooting it much I would recommend a Beretta 92 or a current production Ruger SR9. The SR9 has safety bugs, uh, features that such a noob would appreciate. Of course a Gen2 or early Gen3 G17/19 would be my advice for anyone serious about really testing his or her pistol.

[LHS]

The first thing I generally do is ask them to really think about if they'd be willing to kill someone. Most casual inquirers look at me funny, with something akin to fear, and mumble something about 'shooting them in the leg' or something. Then I tell them to get pepper spray.

For the people who are willing to think past that point, I start asking what their needs are. Not everyone wants a carry piece, and not everyone has the same size hands. A smaller female friend of mine has some limited shooting experience, but the proper mindset to learn and use it. She wants a bedside gun now that she's moving out of her apartment and into a house of her own. She's shot Glocks and Berettas, and they're a bit large for her small hands, but she's got above-average grip strength. She actually ran a S&W M10 converted to DAO rather solidly. So I pointed her to the 9mm Shield. It's a bit light on capacity, but it's got a decent trigger, excellent reliability, and reasonable recoil without sacrificing cartridge performance. Now we just have to find one for her to rent, and get her out to the range to try it.

[Dan_S]

The first thing I generally do is ask them to really think about if they'd be willing to kill someone. Most casual inquirers look at me funny, with something akin to fear, and mumble something about 'shooting them in the leg' or something. Then I tell them to get pepper spray.




While I'm far from an expert, I think this is a commonly overlooked point...

[Tamara]

The first thing I generally do is ask them to really think about if they'd be willing to kill someone. Most casual inquirers look at me funny, with something akin to fear, and mumble something about 'shooting them in the leg' or something. Then I tell them to get pepper spray.

I had assumed we were taking all that as read.

[Rich]

From my limited experience with a few novices... I'd say that .38 special out of a full size Ruger is about as close to .22 as you can get in terms of recoil and and still actually stop anybody. I've had several novices shooting pretty good groups within one session with my GP100, and then spend the whole next session flinching every which way with a Glock 19. Almost everyone whom I start on my revolver and my .22 semi-auto wants to go back to my revolver when we start stepping up to the kind of semi-automatics I try to recommend that they actually buy.

The Glock is in nearly every way a better choice if you are going to practice to become better, but I don't know that on a medium frame revolver the trigger is that big of an impediment to basic shooting.

Also, as much as I disagree with the talisman mindset, the news is full of stories of people who managed to find that magic. I will take someone who is armed and has at least thought about defending themselves over someone who isn't any day, for all that we *wish* they would take things farther.

+1 on the old school revolver

The 3inch GP100 loaded with 38spl or +P is sweet to shoot because of slight recoil.

Load up with standard pressure 148gr WC (around 700FPS out of a 4inch barrel)
And carry win130/speer135 bonded +P in your speed loaders .

[Magic_Salad0892]

FNX-9

Accurate. Good sights. Ambidextrous. Comes with 3 magazines. High magazine capacity. Light weight. Manual safety that can be used to carry cocked and locked. Changeable backstraps. Reliable. Comes from a company with good customer service. Holsters can be found. G19 size slide with full size grip. Not expensive.

I'm convinced that the FNX-9 is ideal for a beginner's gun.

[BLR]

A stainless TRP (unless the checkering it too much) with a Marvel 22lr conversion kit.

If the checkering is too much, a Valor, with a Marvel 22lr conversion kit.

And if the coin is too much a Kimber/S&W/Loaded w/ a 22lr conversion kit.

And if lettuce is not an issue, a CQB w/ a 22lr conversion kit.

All that, included with some quality time doing what any good buddy/shooter should do - helping them get started with fundamental marksmanship. Meaning a few bricks of long rifle before taking the conversion kit off.

[Tamara]

A stainless TRP (unless the checkering it too much) with a Marvel 22lr conversion kit.

If the checkering is too much, a Valor, with a Marvel 22lr conversion kit.

And if the coin is too much a Kimber/S&W/Loaded w/ a 22lr conversion kit.

And if lettuce is not an issue, a CQB w/ a 22lr conversion kit.

All that, included with some quality time doing what any good buddy/shooter should do - helping them get started with fundamental marksmanship. Meaning a few bricks of long rifle before taking the conversion kit off.

Those are some pretty spendy sock drawer ornaments you favor, there.

The parameters were "What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?" Your answer ignores the parameters and goes straight to "What's your favorite gun?" (which is what these threads always degenerate into on internet gun forums anyway. ;) )

[BLR]

Those are some pretty spendy sock drawer ornaments you favor, there.

The parameters were "What pistol would you recommend if you know someone is going to buy it, fire a box of ammo through it, then load it, and tuck it in their belt?" Your answer ignores the parameters and goes straight to "What's your favorite gun?" (which is what these threads always degenerate into on internet gun forums anyway. ;) )

Hahaha!

I totally missed that last sentence. C'est la vie.

[roadsiderob]

a FUT with gun grab thrown in

Dumb question, but what does "FUT" stand for? Google and the forum search hasn't been helpful.

[Chuck Haggard]

Dumb question, but what does "FUT" stand for? Google and the forum search hasn't been helpful.

It's a TPI/Southnarc thing; Fucked Up Tangle

[walkin' trails]

What would I recommend for someone who is asking my advice and I know that they're not going to do anything more with it that what was described? I would be somewhat inclined to suggest that they probably shouldn't waste their money on a gun. If they still had to have a gun, I would then recommend something like a S&W model 10/64 or Ruger SP101, or similar Charter or Taurus (probably a nod to the lesser priced), because at least they wouldn't have too many rounds to send astray if they ever wound up in a bad situation.

[roadsiderob]

It's a TPI/Southnarc thing; Fucked Up Tangle

Thanks for the explanation. I took ECQC last November in ABQ but didn't remember that term. Based on the context, I thought is was maybe a LE specific TLA referring to an incident where a firearm was used.

[littlejerry]

For a centerfire pistol I always say Glock.

But I usually start off by saying "let me take you to a gssf match and you can shoot one of my guns"

GSSF is a fantastic intro to shooting handguns. It gives the new shooter an opportunity to win a new glock(this usually sways them) and they get to see how they stack up against 200-300 other people. This seems to provide motivation for some people who don't want to think of themselves as crappy shooters. By the end of the match they are usually trying to decide on which model to go buy.

It's a clever marketing tool but also a great teaching tool.

[Morbidbattlecry]

I always suggest a Gen4 G19 if they have no idea what they want.