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View Full Version : Wolf Brand Ammunition and Steel Targets



Chance
06-24-2013, 02:51 PM
Wolf ammunition uses steel casings and steel jackets, but apparently does not use a steel core (at least according to what's posted (http://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-115-gr-fmj-wolf-wpa-polyformance-500-rounds) at Lucky Gunner). Most guides I've seen written about steel targets indicate that using "steel ammunition" would damage the target, but I don't know if they mean "steel core" or "steel anything." For instance, the safety agreement from TacStrike (http://tacstrike.com/uploads/file/tacstrike_safety_guidelines.pdf) says only use "high quality duty/service ammunition" and then gives upper bounds on bullet velocity, but that's it.

So, my question is this: assuming you're using steel targets that are at least AR 500, can you should Wolf ammunition at them without damaging the target?

orionz06
06-24-2013, 03:16 PM
I have shot plenty of Wolf ammo, rifle and pistol, and my own steel (TacStrike 1/4 Scale) and other unknown plates that were AR400 without issue. I would not hesitate to do it again and I will do it again. The steel used for the jackets is quite soft and IMHO of little concern.

I have talked with 2 backstop companies about it as well and while I could not get them to give a blanket statement allowing Wolf use under their warranty they did say that if the steel was indeed not hardened there are no issues.

jetfire
06-24-2013, 03:17 PM
Wolf ammunition uses steel casings and steel jackets, but apparently does not use a steel core (at least according to what's posted (http://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-115-gr-fmj-wolf-wpa-polyformance-500-rounds) at Lucky Gunner). Most guides I've seen written about steel targets indicate that using "steel ammunition" would damage the target, but I don't know if they mean "steel core" or "steel anything." For instance, the safety agreement from TacStrike (http://tacstrike.com/uploads/file/tacstrike_safety_guidelines.pdf) says only use "high quality duty/service ammunition" and then gives upper bounds on bullet velocity, but that's it.

So, my question is this: assuming you're using steel targets that are at least AR 500, can you should Wolf ammunition at them without damaging the target?

I can't speak for the rifle rounds, but shooting steel plates with Wolf/Tula pistol ammo won't hurt them at all. They use a very mild steel in the bi-metal jacket.

Chuck Haggard
06-24-2013, 04:05 PM
I can't speak for the rifle rounds, but shooting steel plates with Wolf/Tula pistol ammo won't hurt them at all. They use a very mild steel in the bi-metal jacket.

I've shot steel with .223, 5.45 and 7.62x39 Wolf and Tula ammo, doesn't do any more damage than copper jacketed stuff.

I have noticed that higher velocity rounds (say M193 from a 20" gun) and the plastic tipped rounds like Hornady TAP do actually cause damage at close range.

Jay Cunningham
06-24-2013, 04:07 PM
Agree with 55 gr 5.56mm FMJ tearing up steel - way worse than 62 gr "penetrator" lol.

GJM
06-24-2013, 04:08 PM
As long as we are on the topic of Wolf, how does it run in a Glock 17, and are there any issues related to the cases in terms of durability of the pistol?

Kobalt60
06-24-2013, 04:27 PM
I've found that Wolf ammo also uses a pretty weak charge compared to duty ammo, so there's that too.

Pennzoil
06-24-2013, 04:53 PM
I have damaged AR500 steel using Wolf 223 ammo in the past. Pistol ammo does nothing to the plate. I've had this plate for awhile usually giving it a steady diet of 5.56 including XM855:rolleyes:, 300 win mag, 308, etc. I finally damaged it with Wolf 223 at a night shoot doing drills with a buddy I met in firearm classes. I was shocked when I saw the damage as we were both shooting wolf which i consider weak.

While it's not a crazy amount of damage it's enough for me to stop using the steel inside 300yd.

http://imageshack.us/a/img41/3948/avtf.jpg



I've found the sparks put off by wolf ammo are pretty intense and this is why I'm careful how I use this ammo in the desert due to fire hazard. Picture is freeze frame of only 1 shot on steel from video. This is not the plate in top picture as this was a different night on someone else's steel.

http://imageshack.us/a/img10/5176/9x6f.jpg

ST911
06-24-2013, 06:03 PM
As long as we are on the topic of Wolf, how does it run in a Glock 17, and are there any issues related to the cases in terms of durability of the pistol?

Wolf rifle ammo runs very poorly in the G17. ;)

The pistol ammo and it's TulAmmo equivalent seem to run in Glocks 22, 23, 17, and 19. It's in decent supply and shows up on our LE ranges. I've shot a bunch of the TulAmmo in G19s and a small quantity of the Wolf without issue. It's way down on the preference list, but if I needed some I could run it.

Kobalt60
06-24-2013, 06:08 PM
As long as we are on the topic of Wolf, how does it run in a Glock 17, and are there any issues related to the cases in terms of durability of the pistol?

No durability issues, reliability is iffy though. I get a lot of light primer strikes on both 9mm and .40 Glocks (G34 and G23) plus the 9mm doesn't feed reliably in my Kahr PM9. My Beretta 92 loves the stuff and so does my 1911 and the Sig P220. YMMV

taadski
06-24-2013, 06:18 PM
As long as we are on the topic of Wolf, how does it run in a Glock 17, and are there any issues related to the cases in terms of durability of the pistol?

It has run great in my pistols with no noted durability/wear problems LOTS of rounds later. I keep an eye on the extractors just to be safe but haven't had any issues. It is filthy stuff though.

I think you should buy boat loads of it and if it doesn't run in your 17/34, you can give it to me. :cool:


On topic, I've had no issues with wolf pistol ammo on any number of cheap unhardened steel targets. And I've got 5000+ rounds of 223 Wolf on an Action Target torso with no visible damage, but the torso steel is the 550 brinell model so YMMV with softer steels.

t

David Armstrong
06-25-2013, 10:34 AM
It has run great in my pistols with no noted durability/wear problems LOTS of rounds later. I keep an eye on the extractors just to be safe but haven't had any issues. It is filthy stuff though.

I think you should buy boat loads of it and if it doesn't run in your 17/34, you can give it to me. :cool:


On topic, I've had no issues with wolf pistol ammo on any number of cheap unhardened steel targets. And I've got 5000+ rounds of 223 Wolf on an Action Target torso with no visible damage, but the torso steel is the 550 brinell model so YMMV with softer steels.
t
That is the key, IMO. It's not so much the ammo as it is the target. I've got Action Target plates and MGM plates that apparently can't be hurt by anything I shoot at them. On the other hand, steel from other companies that is supposedly rated the same has not fared so well over the years.

Odin Bravo One
06-25-2013, 11:43 AM
I spent all last year blasting MGM targets with 556 green tip, Wolf 762x39, 762 NATO of all flavors from 0-350 and have yet to have issues beyond needing to replace bolts and wingnuts. And they get hammered. 20-25 guys per day, 6 days at a time 8 times a year.

Round count at the end of a 3 day course is generally about 500-700 rounds per guy. Times 25. Times 6. Times 8. = a metric @$$ ton of lead, copper, and steel flying into steel targets. Conservatively, it is 600,000 rounds spread out among 100-150 targets. Of course, not every round fired hits the targets, but still, an @$$ ton of rounds to be impacting targets. I generally get about 2 years use out of an MGM AR500 target. Other "AR500" targets I have used have failed as early as one day, and end up relegated to .50 cal at 800+, and some that made it six months. MGM has the proper definition of AR500, and how it applies to long lasting targets.

jetfire
06-25-2013, 11:45 AM
As long as we are on the topic of Wolf, how does it run in a Glock 17, and are there any issues related to the cases in terms of durability of the pistol?

When I tested steel cased pistol ammo last year, I noticed consistent feeding issues with Glocks that were related to the magazine. If the mag wasn't kept clean, the rounds would bind up and fail to feed all the way up.

orionz06
06-25-2013, 03:56 PM
As long as we are on the topic of Wolf, how does it run in a Glock 17, and are there any issues related to the cases in terms of durability of the pistol?

I have taken the Wolf, tossed it in an ammo can, then did a few blasts of Amsoil Metal Protector and shook them up and worked it around. Eliminated feeding issues (drag between the cases). You will need to be mindful of the potential to dirty up the mags though.

cclaxton
06-25-2013, 08:11 PM
Wolf is great if you want to test your malfunction resolution skills.
CC

Nephrology
06-26-2013, 07:02 AM
Wolf is great if you want to test your malfunction resolution skills.
CC

I've shot many cases of Wolf 9mm and never had an issue. Tula, on the other hand, no end to my issues with that stuff.... lots of FTF and light primer strikes.

This is through Gen 3 Glock 19/17/26

jwperry
06-28-2013, 01:27 PM
I've had some of the bimetal jacket splatter back at me, when shooting steel from about 15 yards. These were gong style in shape and not pop marked up. I've never had that happen with copper jacketing.

Dan_S
06-28-2013, 06:33 PM
Wolf is great if you want to test your malfunction resolution skills.
CC

Interesting, considering the fact that I know folks that run Wolf in G19s without issue (not your average shooters, either, so the round count is pretty high).


I'm curious whether your experiences were with new Glocks, or what...? Can you elaborate?

TigerStripe
07-08-2013, 12:45 AM
I've had exactly one failure to fire with Tulammo 9mm out of 2000 rounds I've shot. No feeding problems so far but I do get an occasional brass to face in my 2008 manufactured G19. I haven't experienced any problems on steel targets either. Definitely not the best ammo but it keeps my round count higher because of its ease of acquisition before the super scare.

LittleLebowski
07-08-2013, 06:41 AM
Wolf is great if you want to test your malfunction resolution skills.
CC

Not in my experience of years of shooting Wolf through Glocks and ARs.

PA Patriot
07-09-2013, 08:11 PM
I have seen the spark and splatter issue with both Wolf and Tula from time to time with the FMJ bi-metal loadings. Wolf did offer a 100% Copper jacketed .223 H/P which eliminated the spark and reduced plate damage but it is becoming harder to find. Over the past several years I have fired over 10,000rds of Wolf/Tula ammunition in both pistols and rifles and while there maybe a few minor issues I will continue to buy and use same.

BWT
07-30-2013, 10:58 PM
Wolf is great if you want to test your malfunction resolution skills.
CC

So, You only sell brass cased ammo?

ETA: I removed the first inflammatory comment and just kept it straight to the point. I apologize.