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View Full Version : Appendix carry in a class?



LGChris
05-05-2011, 09:13 AM
I'm signed up to take Ken Hackathorn's 2-day advanced pistol class in a couple of weeks. I've been doing appendix carry almost exclusively for about a year now and was hoping to use that mode of carry for the duration of the class. I know some instructors may have reservations about this for safety reasons and I understand why. For those of you that have trained with Mr. Hackathorn in the past, do you think he will have any issue with it? I don't mind doing strong side hip carry if that's what is required for the class, I just want to be prepared in advance so I can dress accordingly.
Chris

ToddG
05-05-2011, 09:20 AM
While I've shot with Ken many times while carrying aiwb (as have others), the best approach you take take with any instructor when you have any question about allowable gear:


If possible, contact the instructor himself in advance and get direction from him.
Barring that, bring both the questionable gear and a more commonplace alternative (like strong side holster, as you mentioned in this case) in case the instructor decides before or during class that he would rather you not run your standard setup.


FWIW, I ask aiwb students to bring a non-aiwb holster with them, too, and on more than one occasion I've asked a student to switch from his aiwb holster because I was uncomfortable with his handling the aiwb, particularly reholstering. I won't stop a class of 12 people to give one person an hour long intro to aiwb carry lesson. That's simply unfair to everyone else. When possible, though, I try to work with the student during breaks to get him up to speed so he can go back to aiwb if he chooses.

TAP
05-05-2011, 09:48 AM
I have trained with Ken twice and took an advanced pistol class with him last weekend. We did not have anyone using AIWB in either class so I can't really help you with your specific question. However, Ken is extremely open to methods/techniques and employs big boy rules for all of his students. If I had to guess, I would say he would probably allow AIWB as long as you are proficient/safe with that method. As Todd mentioned, if possible have your class host contact him prior to the class.

Ken is a fantastic instructor and our training group has brought him in once a year for the last 11 years. I'm positive you will have a great time and learn a lot too.

Frank B
05-05-2011, 01:36 PM
Regardless that I always suggest to contact the instructor to get needed informations, itīs a good idea to have a spare holster at hands.
I donīt want to sit on the berm watching the class Iīve paid for, because a piece of my gear breaks.

LGChris
05-05-2011, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll see if I can get an answer from Ken through the class host, too. Without going into too much detail, I thought I might get a quicker and more accurate answer here rather than going through the host based on our last correspondence.
Chris

MDS
05-05-2011, 05:41 PM
I donīt want to sit on the berm watching the class Iīve paid for, because a piece of my gear breaks.

If an instructor asks me to sit on the berm for any reason, I think I'd look for a different instructor... ;)

VolGrad
05-05-2011, 07:18 PM
If an instructor asks me to sit on the berm for any reason, I think I'd look for a different instructor... ;)

It's his house. You are invited guest, regardless if you paid or not. Just sayin'.

I was in the class TAP talked about last weekend. My read was that Ken is not a big fan of AIWB for himself but is open to it for other people if it seems to work for them. He basically said it cycles around every 25 years or so and is ... and I quote, "fast as hell" but adds a level of danger beyond "regular" strong side or even cross draw carry. He said he personally didn't find it comfortable but didn't poo-poo others that carried that way.

Kyle Reese
05-05-2011, 07:43 PM
http://www.imglols.com/wp-content/main/2009_04/i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg


If an instructor asks me to sit on the berm for any reason, I think I'd look for a different instructor... ;)

ToddG
05-05-2011, 08:24 PM
If an instructor asks me to sit on the berm for any reason, I think I'd look for a different instructor... ;)

Fair enough. If there's someone in a class that I make sit out due to safety reasons and his panties get wadded because of it, I'm not particularly worried about having him back for repeat business.

I'd rather have a disgruntled unsafe student than a bleeding student.

LGChris
05-05-2011, 09:05 PM
Um, I think he was taking that to mean the berm as in, the place where the bullets go, in which case you would have a disgruntled unsafe AND bleeding student.
Chris


Fair enough. If there's someone in a class that I make sit out due to safety reasons and his panties get wadded because of it, I'm not particularly worried about having him back for repeat business.

I'd rather have a disgruntled unsafe student than a bleeding student.

Frank B
05-06-2011, 03:57 AM
:):):)

Sorry guys! If I wrote "berm", I donīt had the place in mind there the bullets goes.

More precisely, what I mean is, if my holster breaks early in the morning and there is no replacement for whatever reason. There are not to many choices to fix the problem.

TCinVA
05-06-2011, 06:46 AM
I always ensure I have a backup holster with me. I snagged a few Safariland ALS belt holsters on the cheap and I always carry one for the gun(s) I'm going to be using in the class in my range bag just in case it's needed. I also usually carry one for a Glock because somebody in the class might run into a Glock holster issue.

So far I've never needed to resort to using those holsters over my carry holsters...but I have loaned holsters out to others who found out the hard way that Fobus does not, in fact, make good gear, or that their Serpa had a bad habit of playing keep-away with their pistol if it got a bit dirty.

JV_
05-06-2011, 06:52 AM
I always ensure I have a backup holster with me.Me too, my backup is the Blade-Tech OWB Belt holster. I like that Brownells stocks them.

NGCSUGrad09
05-06-2011, 08:24 AM
To the OP. I was at a Hackathorn class back in 2007 that had a student running a 1911 AIWB. This was before the current trend to do so and it worked well as he was a tall and very skinny guy.

I seem to remember Herr Hackathorn's words being along the lines of: If it works for you, rock on dude.

MDS
05-06-2011, 11:51 AM
Um, I think he was taking that to mean the berm as in, the place where the bullets go, in which case you would have a disgruntled unsafe AND bleeding student.
Chris

Yep. Sorry for the confusing and thread-derailing humor. I thought FrankB was joking when he said "sit on the berm." OTOH, if an instructor clarifies ahead of time that broken gear gets you 5 minutes sitting on the berm, many folks might make wiser decisions about the gear they bring... ;)

To be clear, I'd be totally OK with an instructor taking me out of a class if I was unable to perform safely. I wouldn't expect the instructor to slow down the rest of the class for me, either - I should have done my homework and made sure I had the prerequisite skill levels. It would be disrespectful to come to a mid- or high-level class without being comfortable with the draw and with administrative manipulations. Even then, just because I'm comfortable, that doesn't mean the instructor is comfortable, and like VolGrad said, it's his house. If I have any doubts about the instructor's sensibilities, I should have done my homework - as the OP is doing by asking the question here.

With all that in mind, I would bring an IDPA-compatible rig to any class, as a backup as well as a sort of lowest common denominator in case of mismatched sensibilities.

Frank B
05-06-2011, 12:43 PM
Yep. OTOH, if an instructor clarifies ahead of time that broken gear gets you 5 minutes sitting on the berm, many folks might make wiser decisions about the gear they bring... ;)

Sounds like a great idea;) Maybe good for a real "Mall Ninja Class"