Thinking of a Walther?

[landsharkleather]

My local ffl has as walther ppqm2 gun feels great in my hand much better then my G19. Any buddy carry one of these? Any issues or problems I should know about before I invest? And lately is the trigger the same setup as a glock or mechanically is it different?

[Kyle Reese]

I've got a 9mm PPQ (M1 variant). I bought it last summer on a lark and hardly ever use it.

The Good-

Overall quality is very good, and disassembly is identical to a Glock.

The trigger pull is very crisp out of the box, and reset feels quite short.

The pistol (given a competent shooter) is very accurate, and the controls are in the right place.

The Bad-

Spare parts - The PPQ isn't a Glock, and you might have a hard time tracking down spare parts as well as M2 magazines (which cannot be used in earlier M1 guns)...

Recoil- Shooting a 9mm PPQ feels like shooting a .40 anything else. Not sure what this is attributed to, but it's been my experience that the felt recoil in the PPQ is much more pronounced than with a P30 or Glock 17.

Overall, the PPQ is a nice gun, but I'd rather purchase a Glock 17/19 if I needed a 9mm service handgun at this point.

Hope this helps.

[landsharkleather]

That does help a lot thanks.

[xray 99]

I just took a new M2 to the range along side my 19 G4. The M2 produces sharper recoil but I would not describe it as sharp as a .40. Great trigger, very accurate, fantastic "feel." The trigger might be too light for a carry gun.

The bad. I can't find spare magazines to save my life. Few night sight choices. The M2 frame is a tad thicker than the M1 and I'm not sure holsters are interchangeable.

[landsharkleather]

The mag thing concerns me. How many come with the gun 2 or 3?





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[TCinVA]

Personally I'd rather have a Walther with the paddle-style mag release, as I think that's a superior setup to buttons.

[ScotchMan]

I agree with TC, one of the strongest selling points of the Walthers is the paddle mag release, which the M2 did away with. If you shoot HKs, this allows a consistent manual of arms. With practice, reloads become slightly faster, you can do the entire reload without shifting your grip or taking the gun off the target, and the mag can not be released while in the holster. I fortunately got into HKs early in my shooting career, so there was no transition period for me.

The PPQ concerns me for carry because there is no way to control the firing mechanism while holstering. As someone who carries appendix, this is something I require in my carry guns. Glocks are the same though, so I am probably in the minority with this. I prefer a hammer-fired gun for carry, or at the least, one with a striker indicator like the Walther PPS, or XD series, that I can put my thumb over.

The PPQ's ergonomics are fantastic, and the trigger is superior to the Glock. If you don't like a light trigger for carry, the PPQ may not be for you.

I would not worry about supply of parts and magazines; Walther has recently begun its own distribution in the US, along with a focus on the American market with guns like the M2 and PPX. I believe accessories will become much more plentiful as a result.

In conclusion, if you are considering the PPQ for carry, I would seriously consider the P99AS instead. You get similar, excellent ergonomics, with a great trigger set up in a DA/SA configuration, or a SAO setup if you use the anti-stree (AS) mode. I believe the P99AS is the best handgun Walther currently sells. I am also a big fan of the PPS for a deep conceal option.

[landsharkleather]

I prefer a hammer-fired gun for carry, or at the least, one with a striker indicator like the Walther PPS, or XD series, that I can put my thumb over.

In conclusion, if you are considering the PPQ for carry, I would seriously consider the P99AS instead. You get similar, excellent ergonomics, with a great trigger set up in a DA/SA configuration, or a SAO setup if you use the anti-stree (AS) mode. I believe the P99AS is the best handgun Walther currently sells. I am also a big fan of the PPS for a deep conceal option.

Interesting I know with the P99 the striker comes out the back of the slide. How does putting your thumb on it make a difference?

[ScotchMan]

Interesting I know with the P99 the striker comes out the back of the slide. How does putting your thumb on it make a difference?

On the P99, the safety comes from the DA/SA trigger, not the striker indicator. The idea is that, carried decocked, it would be a lot harder to have a ND than with a normal striker gun.

On the PPS, however, when you pull the trigger, the indicator (which starts flush with the frame) protrudes out the back. Placing your thumb here allows you to, at a minimum, detect that something is going on, and stop what you're doing. Even better is if you are able to actively stop the movement of the trigger with your thumb.

I have experimented with this, and can pull the trigger pretty hard but completely prevent the striker from firing by fighting the force with my thumb.

[landsharkleather]

On the P99, the safety comes from the DA/SA trigger, not the striker indicator. The idea is that, carried decocked, it would be a lot harder to have a ND than with a normal striker gun.

On the PPS, however, when you pull the trigger, the indicator (which starts flush with the frame) protrudes out the back. Placing your thumb here allows you to, at a minimum, detect that something is going on, and stop what you're doing. Even better is if you are able to actively stop the movement of the trigger with your thumb.

I have experimented with this, and can pull the trigger pretty hard but completely prevent the striker from firing by fighting the force with my thumb.

Ok that makes sense. But with the P99 if you ride the trigger with your thumb can you still pull the trigger?

[Kyle Reese]

Ok that makes sense. But with the P99 if you ride the trigger with your thumb can you still pull the trigger?

Given the slight protrusion of the striker from the rear of the slide, and the soft nature of most people's thumbs, I would say that this is not something I'd rely on as a safety measure.

[JodyH]

IMO the only advantage the Walther PPQ has over a Glock is the paddle mag release.
Since the PPQ M2 did away with that... I'd just buy the Glock.
And this is coming from someone who really likes Walthers.

[landsharkleather]

IMO the only advantage the Walther PPQ has over a Glock is the paddle mag release.
Since the PPQ M2 did away with that... I'd just buy the Glock.
And this is coming from someone who really likes Walthers.

I have a Glock 19 but on picking up the Walther it fits the hand really nice and the trigger is better on the PPQ m2.

[pani]

First of all hi to everybody.
I have a what you would call PPQ M1. I use it for IPSC. It has more than 1600 rounds through it the last 2 months. Absolutely love the trigger. I used to shoot a Glock 17. I really cannot comment on the muzzle flip as I can't distinguish it from the G22 or the G17 I am shooting. They all feel the same to me. Wait for the sights to return to target and squeeze. It is roughly the same dimensions as the G19 a friend has and carries. I don't carry the Q, but that's because I don't carry anything. If I did carry, the PPQ would fit me. But that's probably a theoretical opinion.
Ah, did I say I love the trigger and the mag release? Also it is a truly ambidextrous pistol and that in some stages is a plus (shooting weak hand).

[ScotchMan]

Ok that makes sense. But with the P99 if you ride the trigger with your thumb can you still pull the trigger?

I don't own a P99, but have asked this same question and gotten the answer that no, you can't use the indicator as a safety measure on the P99.

[Comedian]

I've got a 9mm PPQ (M1 variant). I bought it last summer on a lark and hardly ever use it.

The Good-

Overall quality is very good, and disassembly is identical to a Glock.

The trigger pull is very crisp out of the box, and reset feels quite short.

The pistol (given a competent shooter) is very accurate, and the controls are in the right place.

The Bad-

Spare parts - The PPQ isn't a Glock, and you might have a hard time tracking down spare parts as well as M2 magazines (which cannot be used in earlier M1 guns)...

Recoil- Shooting a 9mm PPQ feels like shooting a .40 anything else. Not sure what this is attributed to, but it's been my experience that the felt recoil in the PPQ is much more pronounced than with a P30 or Glock 17.

Overall, the PPQ is a nice gun, but I'd rather purchase a Glock 17/19 if I needed a 9mm service handgun at this point.

Hope this helps.

I share your observations exactly after having shot a friends PPQ a few times. It does feel like your shooting a 40. Vickers says the harsh recoil is due to slide velocity being faster than the norm.

[GJM]

IMO the only advantage the Walther PPQ has over a Glock is the paddle mag release.
Since the PPQ M2 did away with that... I'd just buy the Glock.
And this is coming from someone who really likes Walthers.

Jody, I seem to recall your wife was pretty high on the PPQ some months back. What, if anything, changed?

[Urban_Redneck]

IMO the only advantage the Walther PPQ has over a Glock is the paddle mag release.
Since the PPQ M2 did away with that... I'd just buy the Glock.
And this is coming from someone who really likes Walthers.

Walther USA announced last month that they will continue to sell and support the PPQ M1 (Classic) in the US. When magazines and pistols will be plentiful, I do not know.

[JodyH]

Jody, I seem to recall your wife was pretty high on the PPQ some months back. What, if anything, changed?

Nothing. She loves the paddle release and the PPQ is still her favorite range gun. It replaced a G19. If I wasn't so heavily invested in the P2000 I'd seriously consider a PPQ for myself.

[balance]

Ok that makes sense. But with the P99 if you ride the trigger with your thumb can you still pull the trigger?

The decocker on the P99 will block the path of the striker if it is pressed into the slide, by design. So if you press the decocker in while holstering the pistol, even if the trigger was pulled, the striker would not reach the primer on the cartridge.

You can do that if you feel it is necessary, but putting your thumb on the cocked indicator probably would not do a thing to prevent a ND.

[landsharkleather]

Let me ask you guys this - if I kept my Glock how would be the best way to get the trigger as close as possble to the Walther by that I mean what combination of parts and which ones?

[JBP55]

Let me ask you guys this - if I kept my Glock how would be the best way to get the trigger as close as possble to the Walther by that I mean what combination of parts and which ones?


I tried the PPQ M2 and the trigger was not as good as any of my Glocks with Vanek triggers with reduced pre travel and reduced over travel.
There are less expensive ways to improve the Glock trigger depending on the use and what kind of trigger you need.

[acaixguard]

I have the PPQ M1, and it's great. I honestly don't really notice that much more recoil. Perhaps it's a bit more than a Glock 19, but it's not anywhere near that of a G23. I used to have a G23, and that thing was not fun to shoot for an extended range session. I could easily do a week long class with the PPQ.
As others mentioned, the trigger out of the box is phenomenal. I'm sure you can improve a Glock's trigger to be better, but that's not the point. The raison d'etre for the PPQ, IMHO, is a quality pistol that is good to go out of the box. It does need a better set of sights, which I'm still waiting for. But the way I see it, no pistol out of the box has an ideal set of sights. Also, the grip could use some more aggressive texturing for my tastes, but again, this is the case for any polymer pistol for me.
I am still sticking with my Glock as my primary pistol, mainly because I have so much time on Glocks over the years and it's much easier to outfit a Glock with parts. But the PPQ is a pure joy to shoot.

[Marko Kloos]

I bought a PPQ M2 a while back, and it's a fine gun as polymer striker-fired pistols go. Great trigger, very good ergonomics, very accurate.

The only problem with it is the fact that spare magazines are made out of invisible magic unicorn hooves and correspondingly hard to find right now.

[MSparks909]

I've shot Glocks for the last several years and I'm not the type to be brand loyal. If one company can build a better mousetrap, that company will get my business, and I'm very close to giving Walther my business. I currently own a Gen4 G19 (1,500 rounds) and a Gen4 34 (1K rounds). Had a friend recently offer to buy my 19 around the same time I handled a PPQ M2 in my LGS. Fell in love with the ergo's. Felt very similar to a HK P30. However, I am not a fan of DA/SA guns or of the LEM trigger, so no P30 for me. I was absolutely enamored with the PPQ's trigger. The break and reset felt head and shoulders above my Glocks. I'm looking to replace both of my Glocks for simplicity's sake and have 1 pistol as my do-it-all gun. EDC, nightstand gun, gaming gun. Strongly leaning towards picking up a PPQ M2 (unsure of Navy or 5") model within the next month or two. Any issues I should be aware of (other than magazine availability)?

[JBP55]

I've shot Glocks for the last several years and I'm not the type to be brand loyal. If one company can build a better mousetrap, that company will get my business, and I'm very close to giving Walther my business. I currently own a Gen4 G19 (1,500 rounds) and a Gen4 34 (1K rounds). Had a friend recently offer to buy my 19 around the same time I handled a PPQ M2 in my LGS. Fell in love with the ergo's. Felt very similar to a HK P30. However, I am not a fan of DA/SA guns or of the LEM trigger, so no P30 for me. I was absolutely enamored with the PPQ's trigger. The break and reset felt head and shoulders above my Glocks. I'm looking to replace both of my Glocks for simplicity's sake and have 1 pistol as my do-it-all gun. EDC, nightstand gun, gaming gun. Strongly leaning towards picking up a PPQ M2 (unsure of Navy or 5") model within the next month or two. Any issues I should be aware of (other than magazine availability)?


Get on the e mail list at Midway for the PPQ M2 magazines (15 and 17 round) because they are harder to find than 9mm M&P magazines. I like the looks of the 5" model. The trigger pull on the only one I tested was 5# 3oz. which is about 1# lighter than a standard Glock trigger when pulled from the center of the trigger. The muzzle flip on a 4" model is slightly more than a G19. If you find sights for a P99 they will work on the PPQ M2 as well.

[xray 99]

Get on the e mail list at Midway for the PPQ M2 magazines (15 and 17 round) because they are harder to find than 9mm M&P magazines. I like the looks of the 5" model. The trigger pull on the only one I tested was 5# 3oz. which is about 1# lighter than a standard Glock trigger when pulled from the center of the trigger. The muzzle flip on a 4" model is slightly more than a G19. If you find sights for a P99 they will work on the PPQ M2 as well.

A couple of days ago Midway sent me an e-mail at 2 pm stating that M2 mags were in stock. I saw the email at 5 pm and they were sold out.

[JodyH]

I received the same email about PPQ M1 mags and was still able to pick up two 17 rounders yesterday.

Until Walther USA gets their stuff together on spare parts and magazines I won't be buying anymore of their guns.
It's taken me several months to accumulate 7 magazines for my wife's PPQ (and 3 of those are Magnum Research branded).
I'm still looking for 6 and 7 round 9mm PPS magazines.
Walther won't sell me a standard connector to switch my PPS from a MA compliant 11# trigger to the standard 6# pull (armorer only part).
Sorry... those kind of limitations on selling parts was accepted 10 years ago, but Glock changed the spare parts paradigm and even H&K will sell you anything you want today.

Get your poop together Walther!
Your PPQ and PPS lineup is awesome, your US marketing/sales sucks.
:mad:

[Red Leader]

Agreed with many points in this thread. I have both (G17 and PPQ M2).

Shooting both side by side, the PPQ still feels like shooting a 9mm, but it feels 'quicker' which makes for a slightly more pronounced recoil. It was noticeable, but did not affect a return to sight picture in the negative. One thing I will say is that the accuracy is phenomenal. Compared to the G17 (gen 2), the PPQ was amazing. At 7-10 yards it was shooting 1 hole when I took my time. I actually had to stop and laugh, as if I was questioning if it was really happening. The Glock (my example) has good inherent accuracy, but you have to really think about it and try harder. With the PPQ it was just so easy. It is really the perfect gun if you just want to feel good about yourself:D Point, click, one ragged hole. The pistol was WAY more accurate than me and I was getting offhand groups at 25 yards with it on the first try with sloppy flyers that were as good as when I was benching the G17 (think 4-5"). It is really fun to see its performance.

And right now, that is about all it is good for. The trigger is light. I wish/hope that Walther would offer some stronger trigger return springs or any other spring that would stiffen up the pull a little bit to increase the margin a little for carry. I really don't know too much about reset, but the PPQ has a particularly sensitive reset which I feel might be prudent take a little extra time learning in comparison to the Glock.

Also, the parts/mag availability is absolutely horrendous. I will agree that Walther really needs to get their act together, starting with the magazines. For this reason alone I've heard some people flat out selling their PPQs out of frustration. It is one thing to have a great product. It is another thing to support it.

If Walther offered heavier springs, mags and a good parts supply, I would not hesitate to train and carry with it. It is a fantastic and quality firearm. But it is 'not yet'. Still carrying the Glock.

[Red Leader]

BTW if there was a company that all they did was manufacture QUALITY mags for the PPQ and PPQ M2, they would make a small fortune. Closest in-stock competitor is usually $75-$85.

They could also get into the M&P FS business and make another small fortune.

[l8apex]

I've been running my G19 and PPQ M1 almost exclusively. The G17 doesn't get much time since its too large for me for CCW.

Of the two the G19 gets more carry time due to the VG2 being my go to for quick trips to run errands. If Raven made a VG2 for the PPQ, I'd end up probably carrying it more.

The recoil differences are negligible to me. There is a difference but not in so much to make me slower with either. On a timer it's a virtual tie for me. However my splits are faster with the PPQ. Best out of the box trigger that I've ever used on striker fire auto.

I prefer paddles of the M1 over the M2. YMMV.






It's the Indian, not the Arrow.

[GJM]

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=4432

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