226 Feeding issue

[Squall]

Howdy folks. Proxy question for my brother. Here's the issue: Went shooting yesterday, and my little brother brought out his shiny new Sig 226. He put about 50 rounds through it the day he picked it up last week without issue, but yesterday, between himself, me, our father, and a family friend there were 5 different failures to feed, all on either the 2nd or 3rd round of the magazine, across three different mags. We stopped at one of the local gun shops on the way back, (looking at skeet guns), and mentioned the problem. The guy at the counter asked how forcefully we'd been seating the mags, and told us if we were slamming them in to hard we were probably making the top rounds jump and turn in the mag, effectively setting them up to jam. That surprised us, and I made a comment about speed reloads at USPSA/IDPA matches, to which he replied "if i were shooting matches, I'd get a match gun." Wasn't sure how to take that, as I've always thought of Sig as one of the top 5 or 6 manufactures. Does his explanation sound like a likely diagnosis? We're admittedly still fairly new to handguns in general, having just started with them around New Years, so we can't really claim a wealth of knowledge. Any help would be appreciated.

[JV_]

What kind of mags are you using?

My 226 shipped with Checkmate magazines, and they were junk. The Italian made (Mecgar) magazines were much better.


to which he replied "if i were shooting matches, I'd get a match gun." Wasn't sure how to take thatIgnore it.

[shooter220]

I am surprised at the change in the gun from one outing to the next. Typically my first guess is springs, but they sound like they are all new (mag, recoil). So my first question is about cleaning and lube. Was it cleaned before the first outing? Afterwards? No matter what, I would be surprised if the limited number of rounds through it is enough to get to the point where it won't run regardless of what has been done from a user perspective.

Next guess is the barrel throat - if it is out of spec or has a bur somewhere.

However, what was the ammo being used? If it is just ball ammo, I wouldn't expect a problem unless it is somewhat underpowered and not cycling the slide properly.

If the gun is cleaned and lubed properly (including mags), the ammo was known quality, and the springs are all functionally new, I would call Sig.

-shooter

[Gary1911A1]

I call BS on the top round jumping and turning in the magazines because all of you were slamming the various magazines in to hard. Don't believe anything you hear at a gun shop from your typical employee. They either don't know what they are talking about or just lying to you hoping you'll trade your gun in cheap on something else they recommend which is usually overpriced or can't sell.

Was there a change in ammo or was it lubed well. New pistols run better a little on the wet side.

[JDM]

What did the malfunctions look like?

Was the bullet tip sticking on the feed ramp? Stoping halfway in the chamber? Something else?

[ToddG]

5 different failures to feed

Need more details to diagnose. Bullet tip up, down, or level? Bullet tip in contact with feed ramp, top of chamber, bottom of chamber, or nothing? Rim properly inside extractor groove, below groove, in front of groove?

Was the ammo the same as used the previous time? Because going from 50 perfect rounds to a systemic problem across multiple shooters & mags suggests either something broke or some other variable is at play.


and told us if we were slamming them in to hard we were probably making the top rounds jump and turn in the mag, effectively setting them up to jam.

Don't listen to the nay-sayers. I can absolutely see that happening... if you're loading .22lr in your 9mm magazines. Otherwise... this guy is a dolt.


That surprised us, and I made a comment about speed reloads at USPSA/IDPA matches, to which he replied "if i were shooting matches, I'd get a match gun."

He's probably too busy at YouTube Gunsmiffin School to compete.

[Odin Bravo One]

I call BS on the top round jumping and turning in the magazines because all of you were slamming the various magazines in to hard. Don't believe anything you hear at a gun shop from your typical employee.

I am generally inclined to agree with the statement about Gunshop employees.

And in this case, I don't see much reason to change my position. The odds of a round turning inside he magazine are very remote, and would be about #100 on the list of things I would look at when trying to diagnose a malfunction.

But I have seen it happen. It's rare. But possible. Usually with cheap/crappy non-OEM mags, but I did see it once with a mec-gar.

[Lon]

The most common feeding problem I have seen at work with our Sigs comes from the shooter smashing a partially filled magazine into the pistol as hard as they can. The nose of the rounds go down as they smash the mag in and then they have a nose down jam when they release the slide.

Seen it happen numerous times.

[ToddG]

The most common feeding problem I have seen at work with our Sigs comes from the shooter smashing a partially filled magazine into the pistol as hard as they can. The nose of the rounds go down as they smash the mag in and then they have a nose down jam when they release the slide.

How are they releasing the slide? How old are the mags & mag springs?

(also, from a small details standpoint, how a gun loads a partially filled mag at slidelock wouldn't be on my top five list of things to worry about... but it definitely shouldn't be happening, regardless)

[Lon]

How are they releasing the slide? How old are the mags & mag springs?

Can't remember how they are releasing the slide. I'll try to pay more attention next time I see it. Mags are factory OEM, we got our current Sigs in 2004. Springs will be newer since our armorers replace them on a regular basis (we have annual armorer inspections). How many rounds through the mags when this happens is anybody's guess.


(also, from a small details standpoint, how a gun loads a partially filled mag at slidelock wouldn't be on my top five list of things to worry about... but it definitely shouldn't be happening, regardless)

I agree. I have never witnessed a similar issue with full mags.

[ToddG]

If they're trying to inertially drop the slide (auto-forward) I can absolutely see that happening. If they're using the slide release and they're timing it too close, it's also possible to release the slide a moment too early and send the slide home before the mag is fully seated -- I did that at IDPA Nationals one year, awesome -- and would be a good reason to back off a bit on how soon the release is getting pressed. If they're pre-loading the slide release and letting the gun's movement depress the lever or they're racking it by hand I'd be almost 100% inclined to believe it's a mechanical issue.

[JDM]

The most common feeding problem I have seen at work with our Sigs comes from the shooter smashing a partially filled magazine into the pistol as hard as they can. The nose of the rounds go down as they smash the mag in and then they have a nose down jam when they release the slide.

Seen it happen numerous times.

I experienced several malfunctions of this type while practicing dry reloads with my 228 tonight. I was using factory SIG magazines and full weight dummy rounds. Switching to a MecGar magazine saw these issues disappear.

[Lon]

If they're trying to inertially drop the slide (auto-forward) I can absolutely see that happening.

We've got some guys that try to do this, much as I try to get them not to. I'll have to pay attention next training to see if they correspond.

[Sparks2112]

I am generally inclined to agree with the statement about Gunshop employees.


Awww, even me? :)

[Odin Bravo One]

Awww, even me? :)

It was an agreement to a generalized statement. But the point was driven home again in a reminder last week when my non-gun people neighbors (as in never shot a gun before ever) went to Bass Pro to look at buying a handgun, and when they couldn't decide on what to buy mentioned they should come talk to me for advice, mentioning my profession...........to which Mr. GSE replied "He would give you terrible advice on a handgun purchase. That's not really going to be his area of expertise".

Of course, had you not already informed me of your prior behaviors as a GSE, I might have made an exception...........but since you have admitted to GSE type behaviors in the past...........I gotta go with what I know!!!

Oh, but I did bring you the stuff you asked for, so I'll give it to you Saturday at dinner. I'm sure it will make up for my general dislike of GSE.

[Sparks2112]

It was an agreement to a generalized statement. But the point was driven home again in a reminder last week when my non-gun people neighbors (as in never shot a gun before ever) went to Bass Pro to look at buying a handgun, and when they couldn't decide on what to buy mentioned they should come talk to me for advice, mentioning my profession...........to which Mr. GSE replied "He would give you terrible advice on a handgun purchase. That's not really going to be his area of expertise".

Of course, had you not already informed me of your prior behaviors as a GSE, I might have made an exception...........but since you have admitted to GSE type behaviors in the past...........I gotta go with what I know!!!

Oh, but I did bring you the stuff you asked for, so I'll give it to you Saturday at dinner. I'm sure it will make up for my general dislike of GSE.

HAH :)

If it makes you feel any better Sean, I'm sure I like me less than you like me. Wait, what? Hmmm, too convoluted for me at 3:39 in the morning.

Honestly I think I'm the worst GSE ever, it's a wonder I haven't been fired yet. I mean all that good information I pass along, and that whole telling people when I don't know the answer to a question thing. They should really tear up my membership card. Like when the shop quit carrying Taurus (tauri?) and Rossi's last year because I kept telling the customers they were P(s)OS, that totally is against the GSE rulebook.