Dry Fire with the HK P30

[John Ralston]

I would normally use snap caps, but for many drills (malfunction drills for one), it can add a tremendous amount of tedium to the session and results in many less repititions, due to the snap caps ending up on the ground and having to be reloaded in the mags constantly. Since the hammer needs to be "Pre-Cocked" on the P30, you have to cock the hammer with your thumb if you have a snap cap already in the chamber and don't want to pick it up off the floor.

So...am I doing unseen damage to the firing pin and other slide internals by Dry Firing without snap caps? Can the P30 stand 1000's of Dry Fires without snap caps?

Thanks

[JodyH]

You won't hurt a P30 with dry fire.

[jslaker]

You won't hurt a P30 with dry fire.

Are there any modern centerfire semiauto designs that would, for that matter?

I'm always looking for things to add to my "avoid" list. ;)

[John Ralston]

Thanks for the response.

The only reason I asked is that I know of some broken firing pins/strikers, firing pin retaining pins (SIG Stainless Slide P Series pistols) and have seen a few breech faces that were destroyed from extensive dry firing.

[ToddG]

Any can eventually show wear or suffer breakage from enough dry fire. Even a Glock -- which is probably the only gun on the market literally designed to be dry fired, as that is part of the takedown procedure -- can have problems at excessive reps.

While I'm not aware of any specific issue with the P30 (or the USP/P2000 family in general) viz-a-vis dry fire, as with any gun I would recommend regular inspections of potential wear parts. Also, as our own Tom Jones has learned the hard way, the P30 trigger spring gets worked just as hard during dry fire as live fire so be sure to keep your dry fire "round count" in mind when planning parts replacement cycles for that spring.

[John Ralston]

Will do...

[jslaker]

FWIW, I was meaning more along the lines of CZ-52s, that have a reputation for being brittle enough to break in a handful of dry fires.

[Vinh]

Mr. Ralston,

It is possible to cock an LEM P30 without ejecting the snap cap. Just ease the slide back far enough to cock the gun, but not so far that the snap cap hits the ejector. With familiarity, the process can be done at a decent pace.

That said, I've found that my A-Zoom snap caps mushroom and get stuck far too quickly, requiring the gun to be mortared after a single session of 15-20 minutes.

[John Ralston]

I will give it some practice - thanks Vinh

[gtmtnbiker98]

One benefit of the V3! No cocking requirement.

[John Ralston]

You don't HAVE to cock the LEM either, and on multiple shot strings, I just pull on through after the first shot. I find that pre-cocking results in a faster first shot.

[John Hearne]

Are there any modern centerfire semiauto designs that would, for that matter?

I second the comment on Sigs with stainless slides. I have personally broken one firing pin positioning pin from dry practice.

In the Sig armorer's course, the instructor mentioned a gun that had intermitent problems. It turns out the officer who carried it did several hundred dry fires a day, for years, with no protection. He was eventually able to "egg out" the sear pin holes.

[LOKNLOD]

You don't HAVE to cock the LEM either, and on multiple shot strings, I just pull on through after the first shot. I find that pre-cocking results in a faster first shot.

That isn't really representative of the real trigger you'll be working with during live fire though. Is that a bad thing? I can see where practicing slow, deliberate fire with a heavier than normal trigger might help with trigger control, but could it lead to yanking through a lighter trigger and pulling shots? I suppose thats much more of a question for the experts than a statement.

[John Ralston]

That isn't really representative of the real trigger you'll be working with during live fire though. Is that a bad thing? I can see where practicing slow, deliberate fire with a heavier than normal trigger might help with trigger control, but could it lead to yanking through a lighter trigger and pulling shots? I suppose thats much more of a question for the experts than a statement.

I really haven't noticed any ill effects, and it is really the only way to simulate multiple shots other than not pulling the trigger at all after the first shot and just applying pressure on successive shots.

[wrt81]

Mr. Ralston,

It is possible to cock an LEM P30 without ejecting the snap cap. Just ease the slide back far enough to cock the gun, but not so far that the snap cap hits the ejector. With familiarity, the process can be done at a decent pace.

Another way I've read to cock the LEM is to pull the trigger just enough so that the hammer moves back and then cock the hammer rest of the way with your thumb. I've tried it a few times and it works. I can't see where it would do any damage.



That said, I've found that my A-Zoom snap caps mushroom and get stuck far too quickly, requiring the gun to be mortared after a single session of 15-20 minutes.

What do you mean by this exactly? The snap caps get stuck in the chamber?

[wrt81]

I really haven't noticed any ill effects, and it is really the only way to simulate multiple shots other than not pulling the trigger at all after the first shot and just applying pressure on successive shots.

I read a post a while back, over on the HKPro I think, that dry firing a LEM pistol in heavy/uncocked mode would put extra stress on some part, trigger bar maybe? I have no idea if that's true though, I always wondered if it was. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[John Ralston]

I read a post a while back, over on the HKPro I think, that dry firing a LEM pistol in heavy/uncocked mode would put extra stress on some part, trigger bar maybe? I have no idea if that's true though, I always wondered if it was. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I am sure it does, but since it is the same part as in the DA/SA guns, and those don't pre-cock the hammer spring, I can't imagine it doing anything.

[joshs]

I really haven't noticed any ill effects, and it is really the only way to simulate multiple shots other than not pulling the trigger at all after the first shot and just applying pressure on successive shots.

John, if you are letting the trigger all the way out to get it to reset without cycling the slide, then you aren't properly simulating multiple shots (at least not the way you should shoot multiples). By letting the trigger that far out in dry fire you are creating bad habits that will most likely lead to slower splits in live fire. I simulate multiples by letting the trigger out to where I would normally in live fire. The trigger pull on successive shots is not the same, but I feel it is better than creating the bad habit of letting the trigger all the way out.

I don't worry too much about the different trigger pull because what I'm trying to practice when dry firing multiple shots is increasing my eye speed on transitions and driving the gun as fast as possible to the exact point where I want the next shot to go.

[John Ralston]

So far, it has helped my overall time on drills, and I have not seen any reduction in splits, but I will keep an eye on it.

[MBrook]

Also, as our own Tom Jones has learned the hard way, the P30 trigger spring gets worked just as hard during dry fire as live fire so be sure to keep your dry fire "round count" in mind when planning parts replacement cycles for that spring.

Yeah, I wish I had considered this before my trigger spring broke at 13,000 rounds.

I guess I should mention that HK-USA is currently out of stock of the "heavy" P30 trigger spring. I had to go through Sam at the repair shop to get a new one.

[EVP]

I would normally use snap caps, but for many drills (malfunction drills for one), it can add a tremendous amount of tedium to the session and results in many less repititions, due to the snap caps ending up on the ground and having to be reloaded in the mags constantly. Since the hammer needs to be "Pre-Cocked" on the P30, you have to cock the hammer with your thumb if you have a snap cap already in the chamber and don't want to pick it up off the floor.

So...am I doing unseen damage to the firing pin and other slide internals by Dry Firing without snap caps? Can the P30 stand 1000's of Dry Fires without snap caps?

Thanks

To stop the snap cap from being ejected, you can just rack the slide but not all the way were ejection occurs. The hammer pre cocks before the ejection process starts to happen. This is what I do when I do some dry-firing and I want the hammer in the pre cocked position. Although I have never done this on a p30. I do this with my Hk45c and I can feel were the slide starts to have more resistance due to the ejection process starting. I just stop a little before this and the hammer is pre-cocked.