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View Full Version : How Light, is Lightweight?



Sparks2112
06-09-2013, 09:36 PM
Pretty simple, for a loaded AR-15, what are we considering to be lightweight? How about with a white light and an optic? What are everyone's thoughts?

2alpha-down0
06-10-2013, 12:47 AM
Around 8 pounds for a loaded non-NFA rifle with light, sling, and optic is doing pretty well.

Coincidentally, that's what mine weighs in at.:D

David Armstrong
06-10-2013, 08:40 AM
As mentioned in the other thread, the original AR15 came in at around 6 1/2 pounds for the full-size gun. Slap a 20-round mag in there and it just felt "right" to me. That means as much to me as just the weight itself. I've used short guns that were lighter but didn't feel as comfortable to me.

Jay Cunningham
06-10-2013, 08:50 AM
Balance is an important part of the equation.

Kyle Reese
06-10-2013, 09:11 AM
I'd say anything coming in at under 8 pounds is lightweight, when optics & WML are factored in.

WDW
06-10-2013, 09:30 AM
I know 20rd P mags have a bad rep, but I'm really digging the Colt 20 rounders right now. They cut weight & just seem more maneuverable. Granted if I was relying on this rifle for defensive purposes I would opt for a 30 rounder.

I actually have some 20 round P mags that are still in the wrapper. What's the concensus on why they are so problematic?

rob_s
06-10-2013, 11:28 AM
I don't view it as having a measurable threshold. It has more to do with an approach and a series of choices made when outfitting the gun. The one commonality tends to be that it starts with a 0.625" OD barrel in whatever minimum length is required for the user/application. So, if you live in a non-NFA state the barrel might be 14.5" with a pinned-on device. If you need to avoid NFA but want to be able to change the muzzle device, 16". If you are allowed and are willing to SBR, whatever length you believe to be the minimum to meet your ballistic and reliability threshold.

Beyond that, it's simply a matter of including the weight of an accessory in the selection process. You might choose an Aimpoint H1 instead of a PRO, for example.

I've been doing the lightweight thing with ARs for about 10 years, and the trend really exploded about 3-4 years ago, I think in conjunction with more and more people attending multi-day training classes. You take an accountant that's used to sitting at a desk in the air-conditioning who isn't used to lifting anything more than a pen and ask him to stand around in the heat for 2-3 days with a 10 lbs gun... well. That said, I've never seen even the toughest of manly-men ADD weight to either their gun or their person on TD3, and I've seen a lot of them strip it off faster than even the nerdiest of office geeks.

When choosing something that must be carried, ignoring weight in the selection process when two choices present themselves that are otherwise identical in terms of performance is just ignorant. Ignorant because it's based on just not knowing how much that excess weight in going to matter in 7 hours. Or 7 miles.

JHC
06-10-2013, 11:45 AM
I know 20rd P mags have a bad rep, but I'm really digging the Colt 20 rounders right now. They cut weight & just seem more maneuverable. Granted if I was relying on this rifle for defensive purposes I would opt for a 30 rounder.

I actually have some 20 round P mags that are still in the wrapper. What's the concensus on why they are so problematic?

I like the 20 rounder also for those reasons. My Brownells and Pmags have give me good service but that is admittedly; in relatively light duty. I only load 18 of course.

David Armstrong
06-10-2013, 02:43 PM
I know 20rd P mags have a bad rep, but I'm really digging the Colt 20 rounders right now. They cut weight & just seem more maneuverable. Granted if I was relying on this rifle for defensive purposes I would opt for a 30 rounder.

I actually have some 20 round P mags that are still in the wrapper. What's the concensus on why they are so problematic?
Don't know about the P mags, but the Colt 20s have been my go-to mag since the 1970s. I've got some 30s and have used them for training and for fun-and-games stuff, but the lower weight and improved handling of the 20s made all the difference to me for actual defensive/offensive purposes. Same with my M1 Carbine. There are 30 round mags in the box for fun, but for serious use it is strictly 15 round mags.

Odin Bravo One
06-10-2013, 02:57 PM
I consider all carbine's lightweight.

BoppaBear
06-10-2013, 07:23 PM
A buddy just picked up a SW VTAC, and another has a JP, and both are extremely light IMO...probably in the mid-6lb range before a fully loaded mag, including a lighter weight optic. Really nice.

My Barnes Precision is on the heavy end of the spectrum compared to theirs, but it handles very well. It weighs 9.4lbs unloaded. That includes and ACS-L, PRO, Surefire EB1 w VTAC mount, 2 QD swivels, BPM's 12" ultra light hand guard, and a padded VCAS. That said, it's got a 16" SS barrel that was spun from a Montana Rifleman blank. Not sure exactly how much the barrel weighs, but I would think it's a decent amount more than a chrome-moly.

I ran it in a course not too long ago, and it performed very well.

David Armstrong
06-11-2013, 10:46 AM
I consider all carbine's lightweight.
I think when they start reaching the weight of an M1 Garand it is hard to think of them as being lightweight any more!:D

Kyle Reese
06-11-2013, 11:09 AM
I think when they start reaching the weight of an M1 Garand it is hard to think of them as being lightweight any more!:D

I think a G3 is lightweight....:D

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Odin Bravo One
06-11-2013, 06:34 PM
I think when they start reaching the weight of an M1 Garand it is hard to think of them as being lightweight any more!:D

Certainly folks take things to extremes by deleting every ounce they can, or adding every cool toy from the ads that they can afford. But anything between 8-12 pounds loaded is fine by me.

After 12 years of slinging a 60, my back, shoulders, and legs appreciate even a 12lb carbine.

TGS
06-11-2013, 07:11 PM
Certainly folks take things to extremes by deleting every ounce they can, or adding every cool toy from the ads that they can afford. But anything between 8-12 pounds loaded is fine by me.

After 12 years of slinging a 60, my back, shoulders, and legs appreciate even a 12lb carbine.

To me, a lightweight carbine conjures up images of an M1 Carbine, CAR15, ect. An M4A1 with a SOCOM barrel, KAC rails and S&B Short Dot may be bearable, but it certainly isn't what I'd call a lightweight AR.

EChryst
06-11-2013, 07:55 PM
I consider all carbine's lightweight.
I concur.

I've yet to meet a AR that I felt was too heavy but that's because I'd prefer a heavy carbine at 10 pounds or so to the 249 at 16+ pounds I was saddled with during my time in Division as a cherry.

gunkid
06-12-2013, 10:41 AM
3/4 lb of loaded 30 rds, about 1/4 lb more of rail, 1/4 lb of assault sling, and if in open country, 1 lb of scope and ("see thru") mount and 1/4 lb of bipod. If you know how to modify the (tritium) sights on the carry handle model, the hits can be had just as fast as with the optic. Night googles and a target designator add enough weight, bulk and battery dependence, thanks very much. I never saw the point of the vertical grip or the light? Im not a soldier, I don't have to charge into places, and identify innocents before firing. Carrying the rifle shouldered is a very tiring way to do things, all day, day after day, so I see no sense in attempting to do so. I still "chicken wing:" when mounting the rifle, to form the "pocket" for a proper stock to body mount, then lower my elbow. If this is not done, you're going to get some bad mounts when you are under a lot of stress.

Hold that rifle at the ready for 14 hours a day, while in fear for your life, carrying 50 lbs of other gear, and maybe helping a buddy to walk sometime, for a few days in a row, in brush, mud, hills, snow, and see if you still think a 10 lb rifle is ok. I guarantee that you won't.

Byron
06-12-2013, 11:03 AM
...anything between 8-12 pounds loaded is fine by me.

After 12 years of slinging a 60, my back, shoulders, and legs appreciate even a 12lb carbine.

Hold that rifle at the ready for 14 hours a day, while in fear for your life, carrying 50 lbs of other gear, and maybe helping a buddy to walk sometime, for a few days in a row, in brush, mud, hills, snow, and see if you still think a 10 lb rifle is ok. I guarantee that you won't.
Well, diddly... you sure got him there. Sean has never held his rifle for more than a few minutes, has never carried gear, has never been in fear, and has never helped buddies in tough terrain.

Thank you for your deep insight into this topic.

P-F staff, can we please have diddly added as an SME around here? He's really kicking butt and taking names today! Is he a new recruit to Sheepdog247's team of merry men?

David Armstrong
06-12-2013, 11:47 AM
I suppose if one is doing comparison pretty much any rifle is lighter than pretty much any SAW, which is lighter than any Crew-served, and so on. Not sure that "lighter than" equates to "lightweight" but I can certainly relate after lugging the Pig around a while myself.

Kyle Reese
06-12-2013, 11:49 AM
The troll is gone, folks.

Carry on.

EChryst
06-12-2013, 05:55 PM
Guys who humped the Pig should be considered old salts and their knowledge should be etched on stone tablets for all the world to see.

I'm slowly embracing the lightweight carbine - but there was a time when the only choice I had on a rifle was what buttstock I wanted on it.

I'm always interested in shaving off a few pounds - but having a sling helps a lot too.

Odin Bravo One
06-12-2013, 06:18 PM
Hold that rifle at the ready for 14 hours a day, while in fear for your life, carrying 50 lbs of other gear, and maybe helping a buddy to walk sometime, for a few days in a row, in brush, mud, hills, snow, and see if you still think a 10 lb rifle is ok. I guarantee that you won't.

You are obviously much more experienced, hardened, seasoned, and badass than I am. I shall humbly cower out of this conversation as my penis is obviously not as large as yours.

I am very sorry to have induced what appears to be a PTSD relapse fueled rampage from your time "in the shit" on CoD Black Ops II.

EChryst
06-12-2013, 06:22 PM
Night googles ... add enough weight

I find a lot of stuff with Night googles. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night with a question....

Sparks2112
06-12-2013, 06:24 PM
I am very sorry to have induced what appears to be a PTSD relapse fueled rampage from your time "in the shit" on CoD Black Ops II.

I'm going to have to find a way to quote that somewhere. Wait, I admin a page...

"Run's over to FB."

JConn
06-12-2013, 06:27 PM
I am very sorry to have induced what appears to be a PTSD relapse fueled rampage from your time "in the shit" on CoD Black Ops II.

It's more than a game, it's a lifestyle.... Oh and lol

Kyle Reese
06-12-2013, 06:30 PM
I find a lot of stuff with Night googles. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night with a question....

That's the Internet for the day, folks. This guy wins, hands down. :cool:

Jay Cunningham
06-12-2013, 06:45 PM
"It's all in the grind."

NickA
06-13-2013, 08:33 AM
Guys who humped the Pig....

Since the rest of you are apparently asleep at the wheel: PHRASING! :D

David Armstrong
06-14-2013, 10:37 AM
Since the rest of you are apparently asleep at the wheel: PHRASING! :D

Heck, I can remember humping the Pig for 10 hours at a time, pretty much non-stop, when I was younger.:eek:

S Jenks
06-14-2013, 02:16 PM
I still "chicken wing:" when mounting the rifle, to form the "pocket" for a proper stock to body mount, then lower my elbow. If this is not done, you're going to get some bad mounts

You're a convicted felon, and a creepy looking one at that. You shouldn't be anywhere near a rifle.

Chuck Haggard
06-16-2013, 04:02 AM
Guys who humped the Pig....
Since the rest of you are apparently asleep at the wheel: PHRASING! :D

"Humping the pig" was a well established phrase when I first went in in 1982. Seems to have fallen by the wayside since then.

And, humping the pig? No fun, none at all.

Jay Cunningham
06-18-2013, 12:45 PM
I started a thread specifically on the Colt 6720:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8593-Thoughts-on-the-Colt-AR6720-Lightweight-LE-Carbine&p=141070#post141070