M&P9c does it suffer from accuracy issues?

[JodyH]

Does the M&P9c suffer from the same accuracy inconsistency that the M&P9 does?
My wife likes her Shield so much that I'm thinking about getting her a M&P9c as her house/range pistol and companion to the her CCW Shield.
Her current house/range pistol is a Walther PPQ, so the 9c needs to be a solid shooter if it's going to take its place.

[WDW]

AFAIK, it does not. I believe that has been echoed by some of the SME's on this forum as well. I have put several hundred rounds through one & it was every bit as accurate as my G19. I only ever shot it out to about 20yds. Hope that helps.

[Cool Breeze]

Does the M&P9c suffer from the same accuracy inconsistency that the M&P9 does?
My wife likes her Shield so much that I'm thinking about getting her a M&P9c as her house/range pistol and companion to the her CCW Shield.
Her current house/range pistol is a Walther PPQ, so the 9c needs to be a solid shooter if it's going to take its place.

just curious, is the accuracy inconstancy with the full size the reason you are not considering the full size for a house gun?

[JodyH]

Nope.
I'm just a fan of mid-sized 9mm's like the Glock 19, H&K P2000, M&P9c etc., in my opinion the full sized versions are a waste of size.
The sweet spot for me is a 12-15 round 9mm with a 3.5"-4" barrel and a grip that doesn't extend past the bottom of my hand.
Perfect size:caliber:capacity ratio.
:cool:

[Cool Breeze]

interesting! thanks for the response!

[JodyH]

I'm a B-C cup kind of guy.
:p

[Cool Breeze]

well put!

[98z28]

You don't read about the compacts having accuracy issues, but I have to wonder if that's because they aren't shot at 25 yards all that much. My M&Pc 9mm was ammo sensitive. It would print 3" or less at 25 yards with 124+p or 147gr ammo, but it was an 8" gun at best with 124gr standard pressure stuff. It was manufactured in 2012.

[GJM]

I had 2 9C's in my M&P stage. Sent one or both back to the factory for poor accuracy. As noted above, very ammo sensitive to the extent they shot at all, with one or two loads acceptable, but not great, and most poor. Couldn't approach a G26 or 19 in accuracy.

[justintime]

Mine was not nearly as accurate as my g19. I ended up getting rid of it for another g19. I really loved the size of it too. Also it rusted like crazy on the controls.

[NMBigfoot02]

I have had no accuracy issues(at least, none attributable to the gun...)

[JodyH]

Looks like the PPQ is safe for now.

[TR675]

My example of one - the third time I shot it, with a completely uncrowned barrel, newly installed sights and my carry ammo - made first round headshots during a Rangemaster Tac Con match at 25 yards in low-light conditions and was accurate enough for me to place in the top ten shooters...so, quantitatively speaking, it is "good enough."

More generally I've had enough problems with Smith & Wesson handguns that I'd be looking at other choices if I wasn't already deep down the M&P rabbit hole.

[ToddG]

I watched a student struggle all class long with one for what we finally determined was a pretty severe tendency to shoot high at 25yd. She sent it back to Smith for repair and upon return it only shot about 6" high, if I recall. I believe she switched to a Glock.

To the best of my knowledge the Compacts weren't as likely to have accuracy problems, but the 9mm still seemed like rolling the dice if you chose to get one.

[Arclight]

I believe she switched to a Glock.

This is correct. She shoots a Glock 26 now (which I modified with a "-" connector to more closely match the M&P trigger). Every time she shoots one of her M&Ps (she has a sweet M&P VTAC pistol now too), she is reminded how much more she likes the fit of them in her hand, but she carries the Glock because it shoots where it's supposed to.

If they'd fix the issue and make M&P9Cs that are reliably accurate, they'd have at least one returning customer, I'm sure.

Thanks to Todd for helping diagnose the issue for us. It's an epiphanic moment when we see Todd shooting over the steel plates on the rack and go "wait, it *is* the gun!"

[ToddG]

And a thoroughly embarrassed (http://pistol-training.com/archives/6902) instructor I was after that.

[Arclight]

And a thoroughly embarrassed (http://pistol-training.com/archives/6902) instructor I was after that.

We all learn something from each training experience, whichever side of the bullhorn we're on. You had a lot of hard evidence showing that it's almost never the gun, so you did what is almost always the solution -- teach shooting skills. You did the stand-up instructor response to this atypical situation and, as you noted, you set it straight. We look forward to giving it another go with better gear.

Back on topic, it seems the accuracy varies by ammo. This particular M&P9C went back to S&W twice, and both times they clearly did test it and make adjustments (no, still not right) but that, combined with some research on the all-knowing interwebs, leads me to believe they may behave better (and are tested) with hotter ammo. Of course, who wants to shoot +P+ all day at the range and good luck getting any ammo at all these days (I'm on strict rationing now as my meager supply dwindles). Regardless, I still prefer a gun that shoots where it's supposed to, regardless of the ammo.

I realize it's not what you're asking about, but we haven't observed this problem in her M&P9 full size or the VTAC version. Haven't done a benched test with the VTAC yet though, but maybe we should.

[ToddG]

FWIW, the problems with M&P9 accuracy that I've seen were always related to lower-pressure ammo. My +p carry ammo always shot accurately and to zero. When Smith was developing the 9mm M&P (recall they did the .40 first and released the 9mm later) they used 127gr +p+ Ranger JHP for a lot of their testing because they figured making a gun that could withstand that ammo would mean a tough gun. The downside to that approach is that a number of little issues have come up over the years that only reared their heads when working with weaker ammo, such as extraction problems and the early barrel unlocking/accuracy problem.

[orionz06]

My bad one sucked to a wide degree depending on the ammo. Sometimes 8" from a bench, sometimes 12", sometimes an 8" group with a flyer 18" away from the center of the group.

[GJM]

FWIW, the problems with M&P9 accuracy that I've seen were always related to lower-pressure ammo.

It has been two years, but when I tested about a dozen M&P 9's (Pro, FS and Compact models), I did not see that trend. What I did see was that each one was very particular as to what load it shot OK, and most of the time would shoot other loads 6-8 inches at 25 yards, including the loads that shot well in other pistols. This led me to having detailed notes for each of the pistols (my wife and I were trying for 2 shooters and 1 carry pistol each), and leaving masking tape on slides when they were not in use with their ammo preferences, tied back to a notebook. If I was going to have a ball and JHP load that worked in each pistol, I would have had more kinds of ammo than Ammoman stocked pre Obama. Speaking with other M&P shooters, it also appeared that as the pistols were shot, and parts wore, accuracy might dramatically deteriorate.

[TR675]

The downside to that approach is that a number of little issues have come up over the years that only reared their heads when working with weaker ammo, such as extraction problems and the early barrel unlocking/accuracy problem.

Again, sample size of one, but my FS M&P9 worked great for about 4,000 rounds of regular pressure ball and was "accurate enough." It started having extraction problems when I introduced it to Gold Dot +P and Winchester +P+ rounds. It also had feeding problems with the Gold Dot.

I haven't bothered to send it in to S&W because my M&P9c works so well with my now-preferred 145gr RA9T load that, with Xgrip adapters for the full size mags, there's no point in carrying or using the FS...

[tomr]

Has anyone seen this video by jerry Miculek?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcR2armhilo

To save some time, though the whole is interesting, at about 11:15 minutes in, he discusses a change in twist rate for the M&P 9 from 1:18.75 to 1:10. Then at 12:28 mins there's a bit of conversation about changes to the "locking surface"/hood.

Think I get why S&W wouldn't necessarily want to make announcements about this, from a marketing and customer service point of view, but still....

[Tamara]

When Smith was developing the 9mm M&P (recall they did the .40 first and released the 9mm later) they used 127gr +p+ Ranger JHP for a lot of their testing...

I sure rolled the dice right when I picked my carry load, then. :D

[orionz06]

Has anyone seen this video by jerry Miculek?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcR2armhilo

To save some time, though the whole is interesting, at about 11:15 minutes in, he discusses a change in twist rate for the M&P 9 from 1:18.75 to 1:10. Then at 12:28 mins there's a bit of conversation about changes to the "locking surface"/hood.

Think I get why S&W wouldn't necessarily want to make announcements about this, from a marketing and customer service point of view, but still....


"I think the engineers did their job, they did their research..."

I'm sure glad they did that now... Too bad they likely won't fix the issues for others that have real problems.

[JAD]

I sure rolled the dice right when I picked my carry load, then. :D

I read on the forum recently that 9 +P+ is obsolete. You should sell what you have to me; I shoot obsolete guns.


Jon
KC