Week 70: Frank Garcia Dot Drill

[ToddG]

Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 70: Frank Garcia Dot Drill
results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Friday 7-June-2013.

designed by Frank Garcia courtesy of OrigamiAK
Range: 7yd
Target: six 2" dots (download a pdf version of the target (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/6x2in-circles.pdf))
Start position: from the holster
Rounds fired: 36

This drill combines a high degree of marksmanship with enough speed to put pressure on most shooters.

Set your shot timer for a 5 second PAR time. On the buzzer, draw and fire six shots at the first 2" dot on the target. Record the number of hits you achieved within the PAR time. Shots fired after the 5s PAR count as misses.

Repeat the drill with the same 5s PAR on each of the remaining dots. You will fire a total of 36 rounds with six separate start signals. Make sure you have at least six rounds loaded in your gun before starting each dot.

If your range does not allow you to draw from a holster, begin the drill from your preferred ready position.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start position (concealed, duty, range holster, or ready position).
Total number of hits (out of 36 possible).
Make & model of gun and holster.


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[Sal Picante]

Jumping the gun a bit early here since I do this drill a lot... Down 10 (26 hits) on Wednesday night. Probably the best I've ever run this drill.

I'm ramping up for Area 5 and the Iowa Sectional, coming off a mini-break (mowing the lawn, family in town, too much work to do, etc...) and I've been noticing some focus issues: I'm getting lazy with my sight picture, allowing the front sight to wash during transitions/etc. This is a great drill to learn that vital skill.

(BTW - I've never had an issues with the par time - does anyone bump up on it?)

Shot with a Beretta Elite, 124 gr 9 + 4.0 gr titegroup, Comptac holster on my CR-speed belt.

[Mr_White]

BTW - I've never had an issues with the par time - does anyone bump up on it?

In the past, I have had a hard time using the time available. The pace my body/subconscious mind thinks it can make the hits is under four seconds (it's usually wrong though.) I have made a conscious effort to be more careful lately and now shoot it in about 4.5 to 5.5 seconds, and I still don't shoot it clean even close to the majority of the time. Since this drill is above my head for now, I have been trying to be more concerned about the hits than the time, whether that time is well under the allotted five seconds, or slightly over it.

[Sal Picante]

In the past, I have had a hard time using the time available. The pace my body/subconscious mind thinks it can make the hits is under four seconds (it's usually wrong though.) I have made a conscious effort to be more careful lately and now shoot it in about 4.5 to 5.5 seconds, and I still don't shoot it clean even close to the majority of the time. Since this drill is above my head for now, I have been trying to be more concerned about the hits than the time, whether that time is well under the allotted five seconds, or slightly over it.

It is interesting, Ben talks about this dot drill a lot in one of his podcasts (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PracticalPistolShow/~3/h57qKEn4TIE/5-18-13.mp3), specifically, adjusting the distance if the par time is achievable.

I love this drill!

[GJM]

This drill ought to be called "the Humbler!"

My wife and I just went out and did this. Clever person that I am, I decided we would first each shoot 5 draws to a 8 inch steel at 25 yards, to make sure we were hard on the front sight instead of having a target focus.

Fricke Gideon, no concealment, Glock 17. My run was 22/36 (ugh) with my times about 4.5. I did get better as I progressed, getting 5/6 on the last two dots.

My wife with a G34, Safariland holster, open carry did 16/36, although she had a bunch more hits that were over time.

For fun, immediately afterwards, I threw a vest on, and tried the first two shots to the 3x5, start of the FASTest, concealed OWB. I went 2/2 twice at 1.67, and then 1 out at 1.65. I think I will add at least a dot or two of this drill to my standard practice session for a while.

[Mr_White]

This draw ought to be called "the Humbler!"

...

For fun, immediately afterwards, I threw a vest on, and tried the first two shots to the 3x5, start of the FASTest, concealed OWB. I went 2/2 twice at 1.67, and then 1 out at 1.65. I think I will add at least a dot or two of this drill to my standard practice session for a while.

I totally agree with you GJM. I've come to really like this excellent, difficult, and quite cruel drill.

I also tend to shoot it in smaller chunks - one or two dots and call it good. I've read or heard that Frank Garcia uses this monstrosity as his 'basic marksmanship gateway' drill at the beginning of a practice session. If he shoots it clean (the normal outcome I understand) he proceeds with whatever he was going to work on. On the occasions he doesn't shoot it clean, he just works basic marksmanship. If true, that is a real gnarly standard.

Like all 2" circle at 7 yards drills, the key for me is to truly be ON, and stay ON, the front sight.

[ToddG]

Start position: concealed
Total number of hits (out of 36 possible): 33, dropped 2 on first dot, 1 on fifth
Make & model of gun and holster: SACS/Warren 9mm 1911 in JM Custom Kydex aiwb


Shot this at the end of about 300rd of practice so I was good & warm.

Used the NRA Range turning target system with 5s exposure instead of shot timer.

[Mr_White]

Start position: concealed
Total number of hits (out of 36 possible): 33, dropped 2 on first dot, 1 on fifth
Make & model of gun and holster: SACS/Warren 9mm 1911 in JM Custom Kydex aiwb


Shot this at the end of about 300rd of practice so I was good & warm.

Used the NRA Range turning target system with 5s exposure instead of shot timer.

I think that's really good.

[Mr_White]

Start position: Concealed
Make & model of gun and holster: Gen3 G34, Ameriglo Defoor sights, Keeper holster


Ran it twice. First run was cold, and really sucked. 26/36, but with three overtime shots, and frankly I am not sure if those overtime shots were hits or misses so maybe it should be 23/36 (call shots much?)

ON THE SIGHTS NOW

Did it again, 32/36. Slowest run was a 4.50, fastest was a 4.23. This was a strong run for me.

[JHC]

Maiden attempt at this famous drill a little while ago with a new Gen 4 G22 (I can find .40 ammo).

Yikes 18/36. Tough drill. Will probably give it another try tomorrow.

[GJM]

Started the session today with some dots. Afterwards immediately tried two FAST, both clean under 5, then a FAST at 10 yards, clean 5.41, then FAST at 15 yards where things got interesting. After going down 1 or 2 shots in the sixes, I realized I needed 7. something to shoot the FAST clean at 15 yards. I believe the Dots were very helpful with this -- really, really like the dots! I have also decided to run a number of FAST at different distances to make sure I know how to read my sights based on the difficulty of the shot, as opposed to what it takes at 7 yards.

That gets me to the point of this post, not sure if there is a suggestion box, but about a DOW with a FASTest at 15 yards, say 1 to warm up, and then count the next 2? The beauty of 15 yards is the body shots will not tolerate mashing the trigger like you can get away with at 7.

[ToddG]

Guys ... just another reminder, please keep the DotW threads focused on DotW results.
Thank you.

[AJZ]

Start Position: Concealed (AIWB under Polo)
Gun: M&P9FS

Ran it twice.

22/36
30/36


Great drill. Definitely showed I need some serious precision work added into my training.

[Corey]

This was a new drill for me. I found I could get 4 shots off within the par time, but could not see the sights fast enough to get more than that.

Start Position: Concealed
S&W M&P9 full size with Blade-Tech IDPA holster
Score on each dot:
1. 3
2. 2
3. 3
4. 3
5. 4
6. 3
Total: 18

This was a hard drill for me, it is going into my practice rotation.

[2alpha-down0]

Start position: Concealed AIWB under t-shirt
Total number of hits: 17/36 | 20/36
Gun/holster: M&P9 in JMCK AIWB | M&P22 in JMCK AIWB

This drill, or at least an abbreviated one, will be worked into future practice.

This was my first time shooting 2" dots at 7 yards, and it shows. After I shot it with my carry/competition gun I went back through with the .22 trainer. The 22 desperately needs a taller front sight due to lack of adjustment, so that equipment fault certainly didn't help. After spraying rounds all over the paper I ended the day with a 1" dot at 7 yards and did a mix of live and dry fire on it.

[CCT125US]

Start position (concealed).
Total number of hits: 1st attempt 20/36. 2nd attempt 28/36
Make & model of gun and holster: HK P30 V3 from 5 Shot SME under a t-shirt


This was a brutal drill, more thoughts in my journal

[Chris Rhines]

Concealed (IDPA) start.
16/36 on the cold run, 23/36 after working on marksmanship fundamentals for two hours.
Glock 34 #1, Warren sights, Vanek Classic trigger pack, Safariland 6378 OWB holster.

Very hard drill for me.

[ST911]

gen2 Glock 19 9mm w/ Ameriglo I-Dot Pros
Glock S/C 3:00 OWB under a tee shirt
Herters 115gr TNJ
10/36

Issue(s): Bad trigger presses as I raced the timer. I would have been much happier with a 3" circle result. :cool:

[Mickey]

Start position: ready
Total Number of hits 3/36
Make and model of pistol HK P30 V1

Yes that is right only three hits out of 36
I guess this was probably the worst drill possible for me to start out with the new P30!

[ToddG]

Tried this again today after fooling around with my grip a little. Also, I used a timer instead of the turning targets.


5.18, 5 hits, 1 over
4.89, 6 hits
5.34, 5 hits, 1 over
4.73, 5 hits, 1 out
4.63, 6 hits
4.21, 6 hits


Total hits: 33 out of 36

SACS/Warren 9mm 1911 shot from JM Custom Kydex aiwb under untucked polo.

The last dot I shot with AE9AP (American Eagle 124gr standard pressure) instead of the 54882 (124gr mil-spec "+P") that I used for the rest. It made a significant difference as you can see. I then shot it again all with the softer ammo and trick-kittened myself into going way too fast; I shot two of the dots in under 4 seconds but had multiple misses on each and a total of 13 down (for a whopping 23):


4.54, 5 hits, 1 out
4.54, 4 hits, 2 out
4.58, 5 hits, 1 out
3.82, 3 hits, 3 out
3.99, 2 hits, 4 out
4.47, 4 hits, 2 out


Is there such a thing as too fast, Barry?
Yes there is, Other Barry. Yes there is.