P226 Support Hand Grip Woes

[Matt O]

Recently I've been shooting a P226 as part of a DA/SA experiment, but I'm having a bit of a problem establishing an effective grip with this pistol (a problem I've never really encountered before).

With my G17, I’m used to getting a relatively high grip with my support hand in order to minimize muzzle flip and since the P226 seems (to me) to have a lot more muzzle flip than my glocks, I’ve naturally been trying to find a way to get my support hand as high as possible to get some leverage. The problem is, when I do that, the base of my thumb or the area of my palm next to the base of my thumb ends up actuating the decocker and I get occasional failures to fire. If I try to push my grip lower than this then I avoid the decocker issue, but control is greatly reduced.

For those of you who currently shoot or have shot P226's, any thoughts or tips? Honestly, this feels like a really stupid question as I’ve never encountered this with any other pistol, but the placement of the decocker is messing with me and I haven’t been able to find a way around it yet.

[gvsmovcd]

I don't experience excessive muzzle flip with p226 and I hold handle normally. In fact, I notice more muzzle flip when shooting a Glock 17--I attribute this to the slanted angle of glock handle and reduced weight of glock.

Perhaps your method of holding the handle is not the same as mine? I use left hand pressing sideways with both thumbs parrellel pointing forward.
Perhaps you might try the SIG ergo grip if you haven't already and see if this helps?

[Highplains45]

We teach a "high thumb grip" and have hosted the FLETC SSTP and RSITP a number of times. With as as a basis for shooting and instructing, we see our students maintain good control (minimal muzzle flip) of their handguns. Sig 226 and 229 are both easy to control with proper technique. The higher bore line, relative to the shooting hand, of the Sig does present more of a challenge in that control, but 'doable' with some training.

The Glock in any caliber is even easier to control and most shooters are close to eliminating discernable muzzle flip.

[shootist26]

The problem is, when I do that, the base of my thumb or the area of my palm next to the base of my thumb ends up actuating the decocker and I get occasional failures to fire.

are you referring to light strikes?

Because if you are, I think you may have solved the mystery with my own P239. After 1200 flawless rounds, my last range trip had 20% misfires. I could not for the life of me figure out what the problem was.

[Matt O]

Perhaps your method of holding the handle is not the same as mine? I use left hand pressing sideways with both thumbs parrellel pointing forward.

I use a standard thumbs forward grip. My P226 came with the E2 grips, but I switched them out for some larger G10 grip panels after a couple range sessions. I have large-ish hands and, as such, prefer a slightly bigger grip circumference.


are you referring to light strikes?

Because if you are, I think you may have solved the mystery with my own P239. After 1200 flawless rounds, my last range trip had 20% misfires. I could not for the life of me figure out what the problem was.

Yes, light strikes as a result of the decocker being engaged enough to impede the hammer.

[shootist26]

I use a standard thumbs forward grip. My P226 came with the E2 grips, but I switched them out for some larger G10 grip panels after a couple range sessions. I have large-ish hands and, as such, prefer a slightly bigger grip circumference.



Yes, light strikes as a result of the decocker being engaged enough to impede the hammer.

Good to know. I was not aware that bumping the decocker like that would induce light strikes. I'm going to the range tomorrow to test out exactly how much the decocker needs to be bumped by in order to get a light strike. At least from dry firing just now, I can't see how my own grip can possibly hit the decocker as my hands are not that big.

[GJM]

Matt, I use a Vogel-ish grip, and when I went to the Sig, I had to back off how far forward I went with my support hand (I am right handed) to avoid what you are describing.

Just so I am clear, you are left handed, and when you shoot with the pistol in just your right hand, your thumb forward grip contacts the decocker? When I shoot one hand, I bring my thumb down as if holding a hammer, as I think I have a stronger grip, and it avoids interference with the controls.

[Matt O]

Matt, I use a Vogel-ish grip, and when I went to the Sig, I had to back off how far forward I went with my support hand (I am right handed) to avoid what you are describing.

Just so I am clear, you are left handed, and when you shoot with the pistol in just your right hand, your thumb forward grip contacts the decocker? When I shoot one hand, I bring my thumb down as if holding a hammer, as I think I have a stronger grip, and it avoids interference with the controls.

No, I'm right-handed. Sorry, forgot to mention that somewhat key detail. ;)

The part of my hand I am referring to is my left hand (support hand) palm, approximately right at the base of my thumb. This seems to happen most often when I try to establish my grip at speed and end up getting higher than normal meaning that, when I squeeze my grip, the part of my palm contacting the decocker ends up forcing it down.

This doesn't happen all the time, but it's happened enough that I'd like to figure out how to avoid it, while still being able to get high on the grip and maintain leverage.

[GJM]

Now, I get it -- before I thought you were doing this support hand ONLY. I had the same problem with a forward support hand, and ended just moving it back, and giving up some leverage.

[Matt O]

Now, I get it -- before I thought you were doing this support hand ONLY. I had the same problem with a forward support hand, and ended just moving it back, and giving up some leverage.

Ah ok - thanks for the feedback! I'll see how it works moving my hand further back.

Did you find yourself slower as far as splits when you were shooting the sig? I'm only about 600 rounds into my sig adventure, but it's been a mixed bag so far. I like the trigger pull, but the grip issues, muzzle flip and slower splits have been frustrating compared to what I'm used to with my G17.

[JV_]

Did you find yourself slower as far as splits when you were shooting the sig? I'm only about 600 rounds into my sig adventure, but it's been a mixed bag so far.

What are your differences between the two guns?

[GJM]

Ah ok - thanks for the feedback! I'll see how it works moving my hand further back.

Did you find yourself slower as far as splits when you were shooting the sig? I'm only about 600 rounds into my sig adventure, but it's been a mixed bag so far. I like the trigger pull, but the grip issues, muzzle flip and slower splits have been frustrating compared to what I'm used to with my G17.

I think you need at least a few thousand rounds to start to appreciate the Sig.

I found the DA to take more effort to learn, but that it did extremely well on low prob and one hand shots. Two hands, I really like the SRT trigger, and while the muzzle seems to move more than the Glock, my split times were essentially the same. Long range, I like the Sig trigger as much as anything. Where I clearly prefer the Glock, surprisingly, is one hand shooting in SA. With the Glock, I can be aggressive on the trigger between targets, where with less travel between take-up and break, I find the Sig harder to shoot one hand at speed. I definitely prefer the Glock with a Vogel grip, as its shape and placement of controls seems ideal for the Vogel grip, and I can get higher on the Glock. I find the Glock faster to reload. I prefer the lighter weight of the Glock, and how easy it is even for me to work on. I prefer Mec Gar 18 round Sig 226 magazines to Glock magazines, and love the hammer and DA trigger weight for appendix carry. The Sig just plain feels reliable, regardless of shooting grip. I find extended confirmed ready time on target faster with the Glock. I think the Glock conceals easier because of its lower bore axis/height. A small thing, but maybe the single biggest thing I prefer about the Glock is how much thinner the top of the grip of the Glock is compared to the Sig, which is quite wide up high. I think time spent shooting a Sig makes you shoot everything better.

Clear as mud?

[Matt O]

What are your differences between the two guns?

In terms of splits? I didn't bring my timer when I went to the range yesterday, but during the previous range session, I was getting .35 body splits on the FAST drill. My splits with the G17 are usually around .25.



I think you need at least a few thousand rounds to start to appreciate the Sig.

I found the DA to take more effort to learn, but that it did extremely well on low prob and one hand shots. Two hands, I really like the SRT trigger, and while the muzzle seems to move more than the Glock, my split times were essentially the same. Long range, I like the Sig trigger as much as anything. Where I clearly prefer the Glock, surprisingly, is one hand shooting in SA. With the Glock, I can be aggressive on the trigger between targets, where with less travel between take-up and break, I find the Sig harder to shoot one hand at speed. I definitely prefer the Glock with a Vogel grip, as its shape and placement of controls seems ideal for the Vogel grip, and I can get higher on the Glock. I find the Glock faster to reload. I prefer the lighter weight of the Glock, and how easy it is even for me to work on. I prefer Mec Gar 18 round Sig 226 magazines to Glock magazines, and love the hammer and DA trigger weight for appendix carry. The Sig just plain feels reliable, regardless of shooting grip. I find extended confirmed ready time on target faster with the Glock. I think the Glock conceals easier because of its lower bore axis/height. A small thing, but maybe the single biggest thing I prefer about the Glock is how much thinner the top of the grip of the Glock is compared to the Sig, which is quite wide up high. I think time spent shooting a Sig makes you shoot everything better.

Clear as mud?

Absolutely! :cool:

I realize I have limited trigger time with the sig, I was just curious if others had seen a similar trend when starting out with it. I'm not planning on transitioning away from my beloved G17's anytime soon, but the sig adventure allows me to test out my hypothesis that time spent on DA/SA guns will pay dividends for my trigger finger in general.

[JV_]

In terms of splits? I didn't bring my timer when I went to the range yesterday, but during the previous range session, I was getting .35 body splits on the FAST drill. My splits with the G17 are usually around .25.

Yes, splits.

I was just making sure we weren't talking about .22 vs .25 splits, something that's (IMO) insignificant.

[ToddG]

Matt -- SRT-equipped gun or no? If not, the difference in reset length could be a cause for the slower splits until you get used to it (which may be difficult if you're bouncing back and forth between the SIG and Glock).

As for grip, I'd have to see it in person to see what might be safely adjusted without giving up performance. But without question the SIG is not a Glock. The hammer mechanism forces the grip to be lower on the gun and you've got controls where your left palm goes (as you know too well). Trying to shoehorn your normal grip into a new gun is a fine start but tweaking it for a specific gun is part of the process. My Glock grip is a bit different than my P30 grip is a bit different than my 1911 grip.

[Matt O]

Matt -- SRT-equipped gun or no? If not, the difference in reset length could be a cause for the slower splits until you get used to it (which may be difficult if you're bouncing back and forth between the SIG and Glock).

As for grip, I'd have to see it in person to see what might be safely adjusted without giving up performance. But without question the SIG is not a Glock. The hammer mechanism forces the grip to be lower on the gun and you've got controls where your left palm goes (as you know too well). Trying to shoehorn your normal grip into a new gun is a fine start but tweaking it for a specific gun is part of the process. My Glock grip is a bit different than my P30 grip is a bit different than my 1911 grip.

It does have an SRT in it. I haven't found the transition between the two difficult yet, though as you can see I'm not exactly pushing the ragged edges of speed with the sig.

It sounds like I just need to pull my support hand back a bit, HTFU and get back to practicing.