M&P and Apex: Feedback Appreciated

[BoppaBear]

Just picked up an M&P 9 FS. I was in the market for a sub-$1000 9mm (sshhh, don't tell HK), of the Tupperware variety. I've shot several M&Ps and liked them. I own Glock, but they are not my favorite although they are excellent weapons. So I went with an M&P. I've never opted for a trigger/action job on any of my guns, just shooting more to learn them. But, since this one is not planned to be used for carry, and since the stock trigger IMO needs some improving, I figured I'd consider giving a "trigger mod" a try.

The pistol will not be replacing my P30 or sk for carry duty, so it will be relegated to range and HD duty primarily. If I ever get to shoot any comps, I'd probably shoot my P30, but who knows.

Questions:

1. What are your thoughts on the Apex kits?

2. Are they as easy to install as people say, along with using the YouTube vids?

3. Thoughts on the Competition kit (3lb trigger pull) vs. the Duty/Carry kit (4-5lb trigger pull)?

Any other thoughts, knowledge, or warnings would be appreciated. Apex told me that if I choose to switch out the stock "jointed" trigger with one of their solid triggers, it will disqualify the gun from I guess the stock class of IDPA and USPSA, due to it being considered an external modification. So I may or may not do that.

Thanks

[ubervic]

Just picked up an M&P 9 FS. I was in the market for a sub-$1000 9mm (sshhh, don't tell HK), of the Tupperware variety. I've shot several M&Ps and liked them. I own Glock, but they are not my favorite although they are excellent weapons. So I went with an M&P. I've never opted for a trigger/action job on any of my guns, just shooting more to learn them. But, since this one is not planned to be used for carry, and since the stock trigger IMO needs some improving, I figured I'd consider giving a "trigger mod" a try.

The pistol will not be replacing my P30 or sk for carry duty, so it will be relegated to range and HD duty primarily. If I ever get to shoot any comps, I'd probably shoot my P30, but who knows.

Questions:

1. What are your thoughts on the Apex kits?

2. Are they as easy to install as people say, along with using the YouTube vids?

3. Thoughts on the Competition kit (3lb trigger pull) vs. the Duty/Carry kit (4-5lb trigger pull)?

Any other thoughts, knowledge, or warnings would be appreciated. Apex told me that if I choose to switch out the stock "jointed" trigger with one of their solid triggers, it will disqualify the gun from I guess the stock class of IDPA and USPSA, due to it being considered an external modification. So I may or may not do that.

Thanks

I love the design and engineering of HKs after owning both a P2000sk and a P30. I moved away from the subcompact to the P30, but never shot the P30 well. Picked up a used MP9FS and immediately noticed better target-firing accuracy. I got the DCAEK kit and have a contact from my local gun store install it. Nice. Does not lighten the trigger pull noticeably, but removes all the gritty/crunchy pull. Well worth the small investment.

[DocGKR]

I like the Apex Duty Kit and put them in my M&P's...but the stock M&P trigger is not bad after shooting a few thousand rounds.

[mnealtx]

One up-vote for the DCAEK from me.

[rsa-otc]

I have the Duty kit in my M&P45. It helps some, but as mentioned a couple of thousand rounds through the gun helps quite a bit as well. It is said the new production guns have a much nicer trigger right from the factory but I don't have personal experience since mine is 3 years old. If your gun will accept the RAM I consider that a must have. Not for the improved feel of the reset but it allows the gun to still fire if the trigger return spring breaks.

Instillation of both the RAM and action kits are easy as long as you don't have two thumbs. I have installed several and had very little problem.

[BoppaBear]

Thanks guys for the replies so far. This would be my first modification of any kind to any of my triggers, so I'm definitely not one to rush out to get a trigger job done on a new gun, regardless of how the "maiden voyage" goes. I actually shoot it well, just had a wild hair to try something different...In fact, I'm typically the guy that suggests ammo as being the best trigger job. This is a 2013 run, so the RAM won't work with it due to the sear housing block supposedly being updated to be like the VTAC M&P.

Glad to hear the trigger cleans up some after some rounds. I may take my own advice, and that of others above, and just shoot the trigger better. To me it feels like one of those plastic dart guns I used to run around the house with when I was a kid. Although not bad at all to me, my P30 and sk triggers certainly eased up/cleaned up after some rounds. Now, with thousands of rounds through them, I think the triggers feel excellent, and had a much better time shooting them than sending them off to be tuned.

[YVK]

Apex duty kit dropped the trigger pull on mine to 4.7 lbs. It required a Mass compliant spring to bring it up to where I expect it to be for a carry pistol; granted, the "appropriate" trigger pull parameters are highly subjective.

[JBP55]

I owned one of the first year FS 9mm M&P's and did not like the trigger when compared to a Glock and there was no Apex at that time.
I sent the pistol to Dan Burwell for trigger work and he did a great job. I shot it about 2 years and traded it in on another new Glock.

[Noleshooter]

I own several M&Ps (all of the 9mm variety) and I can say the APEX kits are a BIG improvement.

My gaming gun (5" pro) has the 2.5# CAEK trigger, I've got a compact with the 4.5# DAEK kit, a FS with the Aluminum FSS kit and a new Shield with a factory trigger. I can say the new Shield came with a FAR better trigger than the others out of the box. The APEX kits make a big difference in my group sizes.

When I'm working with new shooters and they are having accuracy issues I hand them one of my APEX trigger pistols and often see instant improvement in accuracy over factory triggers.

I have moderate mechanical ability and using the videos and instructions all installations were painless.

The CAEK is light, but does still have a good bit of take up.
The DAEK is a little heavier than the CAEK, but feels smoother.
The FSS doesn't feel like a striker fired trigger. Almost no take-up or over-travel and a crisp break.
I haven't felt the overwhelming urge to replace the shield trigger like I did with the others, but it will eventually get a DAEK.

I shoot the CAEK kit the best, but be warned it is very light and shouldn't be carried unless you practice with it a lot.


Personally, I don't see the benefit of shooting a lot of rounds through a mediocre trigger (or bad sights for example) if I intend to upgrade the trigger as I'll just be slowing my progress. I'd rather have a good trigger so that I can focus on other fundamentals.

[Mikey]

I have used all of the above mentioned APEX products and love each and every one of them.

The Forward Set Sear and Trigger are the best triggers (for tactical Tupperware) I have ever felt. I bought this setup for my M&P 45 and love it to death. Once installed you will have a short crisp 4-5lb trigger pull. If you swap the springs for competition weight springs you can get the pull down to around 2lbs. In my 45 this caused light primer strikes on non-federal primer (large primer only) reloads so I swapped the factory striker spring back in. My 9mm guns have no issues with all the light springs.

If you are not comfortable with such a short pull than go with the COMP or DUTY kit. Both will give you an excellent trigger but nothing compared the FSS and trigger.

Installation of all of the apex products is easy. If you can change your own oil, you can install these parts. I would recommend a sight tool such as the one from MGW if you want the install to be even easier. I can install any apex kit in 20 minutes as long as I have an MGW tool.

[ubervic]

To each his own, but buying the Apex kit is a relatively small expense, particularly as compared with the cost of firing a few thousand rounds of ammo these days. :) It is a tried & true mod that works, and many can even install it themselves. The choice was easy for me, and I'd do it again.

[JV_]

It is a tried & true mod that worksMy experience with the Apex duty trigger spring is ho-hum. If I were going to run an M&P again, I'd use a MA trigger spring with the DCAEK.

[Up1911Fan]

When I was shooting an M&P regularly I had a DCAEK and RAM in mine. Both were good upgrades and I felt were worth the cost. If I were going back to an M&P i'd probably add the AEK trigger as well. I didn't care for the hinged trigger.

[DocGKR]

I like the M&P stock hinged trigger and despise triggers with a safety tab in the middle, ala Glock.

[Pennzoil]

DCAEK kit is good except for the trigger return spring which is pretty much garbage breaking early and often.

[rsa-otc]

DCAEK kit is good except for the trigger return spring which is pretty much garbage breaking early and often.

While I didn't have problems with the DCAEK return spring myself after hearing that others had I put the stock spring back in.

[JV_]

One of mine broke at about 4400 rounds, IIRC. Another broke somewhere in the 6000 range.

They all broke in the same place - where the coil loops stop and the straight section starts.:
1521

[Woodandsteel]

I have an M&P9FS with the new trigger in it. I purchased it in December 2012. It has a pronounced reset, and when I took it apart to polish the internals today, I discovered that Smith has changed the sear design to match the shape of the APEX sear and the popular sear mods (Burwell, etc.) It now has the teardrop/compound radius shape from the factory. I polished the sear in mine, and it made a noticeable difference. I plan to add the APEX striker block, which should greatly reduce the grit. I'm also really tempted to try the polymer AEK!

I only got to shoot half a box of ammo after the polishing, but my groups were definitely improved (also thanks to the dry firing I've been doing). I think I'm starting to get the hand of the M&P!

[NMBigfoot02]

Those of you who had trigger return spring breaks: approximately when did you buy your DCAEK? I seem to recall Randy posting that they had problems with the loops on the early revs of the trigger spring. My understand was that it was fixed some time ago.

[rsa-otc]

Those of you who had trigger return spring breaks: approximately when did you buy your DCAEK? I seem to recall Randy posting that they had problems with the loops on the early revs of the trigger spring. My understand was that it was fixed some time ago.

I heard that as well.

[JV_]

Those of you who had trigger return spring breaks: approximately when did you buy your DCAEK? I seem to recall Randy posting that they had problems with the loops on the early revs of the trigger spring. My understand was that it was fixed some time ago.

I don't know if there is a revision later than the ones I had. Early 2011 was the last time I used their springs.

[Pennzoil]

Those of you who had trigger return spring breaks: approximately when did you buy your DCAEK? I seem to recall Randy posting that they had problems with the loops on the early revs of the trigger spring. My understand was that it was fixed some time ago.

The first spring I broke was from this bad batch. After I heard about these defective springs I called Apex and ordered replacements specifically from the newer batch. Result was breaking springs in the same place (same spot as JV) along with being inline with the same round count as my first defective spring.

I've moved on to the MA spring per the recommendation of others here and I've had no issues so far.

One other thing I noticed about my Apex springs is that they lose almost a pound of trigger pull throughout the life of the spring. My M&P would be close to 5 pounds when new and work it's way down to just barely above 4 pounds. My stock back up guns and my APEX equipped gun with stock trigger return spring hasn't done this.

[Savage Hands]

I don't know if there is a revision later than the ones I had. Early 2011 was the last time I used their springs.


It was upgraded later in 2011 IIRC, but it was after you mentioned it previously.

[JonEMTP]

I'll chime in - I'm a recent convert to M&P life (December 2012 - and I therefore legitimately am still looking to buy more mags!).

I've got a Duty/Carry kit in mine, and my "teaching" gun has one as well. Remarkable improvement over the stock trigger.

[BoppaBear]

Well, I contradict my own advice...DCAEK is on the way. I'm not sure if I'm going to leave the stock trigger spring in the gun or switch to the one in the kit yet though. Either way, I'll keep the one I don't use as a back-up.

Also, if it's not light enough, I suppose I could just order the competition spring kit ($29 vs. the $90 for a second time) and switch out the springs.

After the DCAEK is installed, I may consider the polymer trigger kit as well. I'm not a trigger/mod junky, but do like a solid trigger...and this is actually the first time I'm not leaving the internals of a weapon completely stock (other than with my AR). Only mods I've done in past are extended mag release for my sk, and the electrician's shrink tubing on the right side sk slide release to rid it of "play". All of my other pistols (Sigs, HKs, Glocks) have been bone stock and shot as they are/were. This is kind of an experiment for me...

[Jhp147]

I understand the idea of putting a lot of rounds through the M&P to smooth it up, but those rounds are a lot more fun if i'm not fighting a crunchy trigger, and satisfying if I can make hits on plates from way back, my normal last drill. I think the Apex duty kit is great, got some light strikes with the comp kit. Easy to change and went back to duty springs.

[BoppaBear]

Put a TLR-3 on the M&P yesterday. Fits perfect. DCAEK will be installed in a few hours...hopefully.

[DLeeHarley]

I've got a newer M&P .40SW 12/6/12 and was considering adding an Apex kit to it. Now after shooting it for over 6 months and dry firing it over 500 times, the trigger is wonderful. There's a pronounced reset, all the grittiness is gone & and it breaks like a glass rod now and I don't think I'll add the Apex kit now. But I am thinking about adding the new Apex Polymer trigger though. So I'd try breaking it in first, but like someone above stated the Apex kits are really not that expensive.

Dennis in Idaho
"Those who talk, Don't Do. Those who do, Don't Talk".