Intro and first pistol recommendations for me and the wife

[Kevin Mc]

Hi All,

My name is Kevin I live in Northern NJ with my wife and 2 kids. We recently (by NJ standards) applied for our Firearms ID cards and pistol permits and are ready to purchase 1 handgun each. These will be our primary and potentially only handguns in this state. We can only legally carry on our property and at our businesses which we each own. The likelihood that either of us will carry extensively is slim to none due to the very restrictive laws in NJ. Our primary use will be target practice at an indoor range with home/personal defense second.

Both of us have only the very basic knowledge of firearms in general. We both took private lessons with a qualified instructor that covered safety, loading and firing of 9mm and .45 pistols. I plan to go to the range and train at home 3-4 times per week….my wife will probably make it to the range every now and then when we both have time. We are both physically fit and large enough that shooting the .45 glock and 1911 was not an issue, granted we each only put about 20-30 rounds through each. We both have a medium size hand.

I will try to keep this simple as we are looking for input on the following:

• Should we both get the same model and caliber?
• Which is “better” given the criteria above 9mm or .45?
• We both want a semi-auto pistol, lower capacity is fine as NJ might be 10 and under at some point.
• Which trigger, DA/SA, DA, LEM, others?
• Durability, reliability and accuracy are top priorities.
• Ease of carry and cost of gun and ammo are the last considerations.

I have read some very good things about HK (the HK45 endurance test is how I found this site) so I would like to focus on recommendations for that brand, unless there any specific arguments against it.

Also, if possible I would like a recommendation for ammo, again to keep it as simple as possible, if there is one good all-around ammo we should be using that can be bought in quantity please make a recommendation.

Thanks for your help and time.
Kevin

[ToddG]

• Should we both get the same model and caliber?

While certainly not a requirement by any means, it will make it easier for you in some respects so long as you find one gun that works well for you both. Given the difficulty of acquiring another pistol quickly in NJ having an identical "backup" so to speak has benefits. You'd also share spare parts, magazines, accessories, etc.


• Which is “better” given the criteria above 9mm or .45?

I'd opt for 9mm. Ammo is cheaper for practice, it's easier to learn to control the recoil, and if you opt for a high capacity gun you get the benefit of more bullets on board.


• Which trigger, DA/SA, DA, LEM, others?

This is so much a matter of personal choice and taste that it's hard to answer. You'll get people who insist only one option is "shootable" but that's simply untrue. Each system sets different compromises in terms of speed, accuracy, ease of learning, safety, etc. But if you're going to practice regularly and intelligently, and you're going to learn & exercise good safety habits, action type would be near the bottom of my list of choices. Having said that, I'm personally partial to the LEM trigger mechanism (which is available only on HK pistols).


• Durability, reliability and accuracy are top priorities.
• Ease of carry and cost of gun and ammo are the last considerations.

I'd simply suggest sticking with major name brands. Once you've narrowed down your options to one or two models it will be easier for people to provide specific opinions and experiences.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Kevin, I would give strong consideration to the HK45C or the P30 in 9mm. I own a P30 V3 in 9mm and use it as a do it all gun, that includes being my daily carry piece. Size is great, recoil is mild and the gun is extremely accurate. I also have a full size HK45 and really regret not getting the compact instead. The full size is awesome, however, it's really too big to carry unless you have a coat on. I'm an athletic guy with a build that makes it pretty easy to hide just about any full size gun, yet I find the HK45 to be too much to carry in a T shirt, button down or Polo. The HK45C is a superb do it all pistol, being just the right size, the only downside is the funny rial on it wont accept most weapon lights, so if you plan to use it for a house gun I would probably look towards a P30.

I think the P30 9mm is the best option for an only pistol for several reasons:

-Mild recoil
-Good capacity (that for now conforms to NJ law)
-Small enough to carry unless you're one of those guys that wears skinny jeans
-Cheapish ammo
-Full size rail to accept an X300

If I were you, I would be looking hard at picking up a P30 in you're choice of trigger configuration or a Glock 19. Get some 10-8 or Trijicon HD sights and a Surefire X300 to go with it along with a good carry holster. I prefer to carry my P30 AIWB in a JM Custom Kydex but there are many other good options out there too, just keep reading around on here for lots of good advice. I would also give very strong consideration to a P30L for it's longer sight radius and even milder recoil. The extra barrel length may help it conceal better for you too, if you decide to go down the AIWB route.

[Cookie Monster]

+1 on the X300.



Cookie Monster

[Nephrology]

Kevin - what is your budget? For the whole kit and kaboodle - keep in mind, you will be paying not just for the firearm, but for magazines, ammunition, holsters, replacement sights, among other peripheral expenses.

I think this will help narrow down the choices some.

Also, for ammunition, there is rarely one "do it all" brand. Personally, I use cheap Wolf 9mm for practice on my own time, Aguila 124gr for matches, and Winchester Ranger T JHPs for defense. Typically, the ammunition you want to shoot for practice will not be of the same quality as the ammunition you carry for protection. However, I understand that JHPs are not legal in NJ. for protection, I would instead look at the Cor-Bon Pow'R'Ball or perhaps the Hornady Critical Defense/critical duty if that is considered legal by NJ standards.

[Kennydale]

I am 62 and just started shooting last Nov. I purchased a Ruger SR40C (after having tried out a friends Ruger SR9C & SR40C) I am extremely happy with my purchase both the .40 & 9mm were $399.00 at a gun show. Thinking back I might have saved a few dollars on 9mm because the Ammo is less expensive. Considering the gun purchase stocking ammo, holster, CHL costs range time and classes... I have easily spent about $1000.00 on this venture. And coming up in June there is an intermediate defensive handgun class I'd like to take, but with class fee and ammo, it alone will be $300.00. Not cheap !!!!!!

[hufnagel]

Kevin - what is your budget? For the whole kit and kaboodle - keep in mind, you will be paying not just for the firearm, but for magazines, ammunition, holsters, replacement sights, among other peripheral expenses.

I think this will help narrow down the choices some.

Also, for ammunition, there is rarely one "do it all" brand. Personally, I use cheap Wolf 9mm for practice on my own time, Aguila 124gr for matches, and Winchester Ranger T JHPs for defense. Typically, the ammunition you want to shoot for practice will not be of the same quality as the ammunition you carry for protection. However, I understand that JHPs are not legal in NJ. for protection, I would instead look at the Cor-Bon Pow'R'Ball or perhaps the Hornady Critical Defense/critical duty if that is considered legal by NJ standards.

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

I would suggest reviewing that link. Short answer: JHP rounds are legal in NJ.

[hufnagel]

Greetings Kevin! Welcome to the journey of firearms ownership in New Jersey. :p

When I began the same journey as you back in 2008 I spent the subsequent year (!!!) researching and educating myself on various firearms one of the best resources I came across was Todd's website, pistol-training.com (this was before the forum came online as well.) His knowledge, his desire to share and teach, and his advice has proven to be invaluable to me, just as his post above echos the sentiments I would write.

Now that I'm done with the man-love session :D here's my two cents. I agree with procuring two identical firearms, and I too also suggest the HK P30, in 9mm and as v3 (variant 3 DA/SA.) My reasons for ammo selection echos that of Todd's as you will find more flavors of ammo available for it than you can possibly imagine (and before the shenanigans of 2013, more were coming out frequently.) My reasons for choosing v3 are as follows...

I did NOT want a manual safety to have to operate in the case of actually needing the firearm for defense (less things to have to do to make "bang" happen.)
as a "new(er)" firearms owner having the heavier and longer first pull in DA mode gives me a feeling of safety and security that I won't accidentally discharge during a stressful situation.
the adjustable back and side straps will allow you to tailor fit the firearm to each of you.
it's ambidextrous controls make it easy to use right or left handed (I'm a lefty)
it is easily convertable to LEM and back again to v3 (with the caveat that HK technically does not support the switch and states that it would void the warranty on the firearm) so you can at some point try it out if you so choose.
v3 copies are the most prevelant
they sell both 15 and 10 round magazines for the P30 9mm, so if we do somehow get it in the shorts we can (theoretically) comply.
it's an H&K. their reliabilty and durability are second to none.


Less you think it's all roses and puppies, there are flaws/faults...

they are not the least expensive ($1000ish per copy new, if you buy locally. Metzlers in Garfield is an HK dealer.) if you have budgetary constraints. My only comments to that is the same thought process I used... how much are you or a loved one's life worth? Over the lifetime of the firearm (conceivably longer than your lifetime) does a couple extra dollars really mean that much?
magazines are expensive ... when you can find them! ($30~$33 is the norm. alot of sellers right now are 2x that.)
it has certain quirks almost everyone runs into... riding the slide release and causing a failure to lock back on last round is one of the most common.


Good luck on your journey! :cool:

[BoppaBear]

Edit: hufnagel and I were typing at the same time....

Kevin,

First of all, welcome and congrats on the upcoming purchases. I'm going to try not to parrot what everyone else has said, as they have given great advice. I will second, and third, a P30 9mm though.

As mentioned by Todd, it is not a bad thing that the 2 of you get the same gun. They share parts, mags, ammo, etc. That is a nice thing, although getting your hands on some back-up parts, mags, and mag-parts is ideal, in this day and time it's easier said than done.

2 other +'s for the P30 (which I have an affinity for, and use as my primary CCW):

1. It is the softest shooting 9mm pistol I've ever shot. Accurate, easy to manage even with SD loads, and as Todd proved, reliable as all hell. http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668
2. Having the ability to play with the side panels and back straps will allow you to configure your grip exactly as it needs to be for you, and it will allow your wife to do so for herself...AND, you now have 2 sets of panels and back straps for your gun, as does she.

LEM vs V3 is something I will not advise on as it is purely personal preference. My HK carry guns are V3 (P30 and P2000sk), as I came to HK from years with Sigs and like the DA/SA w/ decocker and no safety. That's just me.

Good luck, and IMO, you can't go wrong with an HK...but there are plenty of excellent options out there too.

[LorenzoS]

Mrs. Lorenzo and I also have a pair of identical P30's. Maybe HK should tap this market with his n' her sets, in a romantic decorated box with hearts and flowers.

[Kevin Mc]

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much...that was easy!!

2 x P30 in 9mm, I will call around and see if I can find them in-stock. The cost is not really an issue as we are only buying 1 each for now and some ammo/accessories (i know it is still a pile of money but i feel it is worth the investment).


Would it be best to change anything right off the bat, or just run the guns for a while and see what we like/don't like?
How many magazines each should we have on-hand?
What is a good drill for beginners with about an hour to spend per session?



Kevin

[cclaxton]

9mm due to ammo prices, easier to learn and better choices.

Most reliable and popular choices:
Glock 17/19
S&W M&P
Springfield XD/XDM

I personally prefer DA/SA handguns:
CZ 75B
Beretta 92FS or 90-two
Sig 226
Tanfoglio CZ75 clone

Another big factor is whether you plan to carry the gun and in what manner. If you need to carry deep-concealment, then you need to think about pocket guns or smaller/lighter guns. In that area consider the Kahr, Ruger LC-9, or .380 caliber guns such as the S&W Bodyguard .380 or Ruger LCP, Springfield XDS, etc.

The 1911 style 9mm guns are great too, but IMHO tend to need more maintenance and TLC. I would consider a 1911 style after you have the basic shooting skills in place.
CC

[Up1911Fan]

I would look for a minimum of 6 mags per pistol. Verify they work and keep 2 loaded for carry and use the others for range/dry fire work. The only thing i'd change right away would be the sights. Check out Heinie, Dawson Precision, Trijicon and 10-8.

[Nephrology]

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much...that was easy!!

2 x P30 in 9mm, I will call around and see if I can find them in-stock. The cost is not really an issue as we are only buying 1 each for now and some ammo/accessories (i know it is still a pile of money but i feel it is worth the investment).


Would it be best to change anything right off the bat, or just run the guns for a while and see what we like/don't like?
How many magazines each should we have on-hand?
What is a good drill for beginners with about an hour to spend per session?



Kevin

I think generally speaking the only thing that will require changing are the stock sights. Purchase something with tritium in them (night sights) to make them more usable for self defense. There are lots of styles out there and plenty of information & reviews on the web, so do some digging and see what style you might like. Personally, I am a fan of a tritium front sight post and a flat black rear sight, but everyone has their own preferences.

As for mags, you can really never have enough. That said I would suggest a minimum of 5 per gun to start - 2 carry/personal protection, 3 practice. Purchase more as you can afford them.

I also highly recommend you purchase a weaponlight (or, two I suppose) for home protection. This will allow you to illuminate whatever is on the wrong end of your muzzle. They attach and detach within seconds and are invaluable to have around if you are keeping a loaded gun for personal protection. I personally recommend the Streamlight TLR-1. Others have great success with the Surefire X300, though they are more expensive. I think you won't go wrong with either.

[JBP55]

On a $1,000 budget you can purchase a Gen 4 Glock 19 with Ameriglo Pro I Dot sights and a TLR1 and a quality holster and a total of 7 magazines.

[BoppaBear]

IMO, the P30 is just fine right out of the box.

Mags are tough to find, so try to get on a list at one of the online dealers such as HKParts, or Top Gun Supply. As for number, 3 is better than 2, 4 is better than 3...there isn't really a scientific answer to this. I have 8 mags for my P30. 2 that I carry regularly (one in gun and one reload), and 3 for range/back-up. The other 3 just sit in a box in case I need them or their parts. I also ordered 6 spare mag springs for my P30 mags (and my sk).

The glow in the dark sights aren't the best as they have to be charged to work in low/no light conditions, but they are certainly manageable and accurate. Are they sexy? No, but they get the job done. This is just me, but I don't rush out to get anything other than ammo and mags for a new gun (for a new shooter, add a good training course to that list). After I shoot it for a while, I then feel like I have the data necessary to make changes, although by then I'm used to it.

[Desmond82]

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much...that was easy!!

2 x P30 in 9mm, I will call around and see if I can find them in-stock. The cost is not really an issue as we are only buying 1 each for now and some ammo/accessories (i know it is still a pile of money but i feel it is worth the investment).


Would it be best to change anything right off the bat, or just run the guns for a while and see what we like/don't like?
How many magazines each should we have on-hand?
What is a good drill for beginners with about an hour to spend per session?



Kevin

I was at VA Arms about a week ago and they had hk p30's

Great Store w/friendly & professional personnel

Virginia ARMS CO INC
9760 Center St, Manassas, VA 20110
703-368-3949

~I have no affiliation with this company

[Mr. Goodtimes]

There really is no magical number when it comes to mags but I would shoot for at least six; two for carry/defense and the others for spare parts/range usage.

[ToddG]

Thanks so much...that was easy!!

Just understand that merely being popular on a forum doesn't mean the gun will be ideal for you and/or or your wife. I'm the first to say I think the P30 is an outstanding choice for a first time shooter willing to spend the coin for it. But if you have the ability to do so, I'd find a rental range nearby and at least put a few rounds downrange through different guns to understand their manual of arms and quirks a little better.


* Would it be best to change anything right off the bat, or just run the guns for a while and see what we like/don't like?

The stock sights are horrible. I'd definitely look into getting night sights. There are many options available but the reality is that for a new shooter the intricacies of sight selection (and the finer benefits of slightly different configurations) probably aren't worth worrying about. PersonallyI'd use Trijicon HD sights (http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=HK110O) but Heinies are good and even the "factory" Meprolights will serve you adequately as a beginner.


* How many magazines each should we have on-hand?

You will never have too many. You'd get a total of four with two new guns. I'd recommend getting another four, at a minimum, for practice.


* What is a good drill for beginners with about an hour to spend per session?

Searching the Internet for an NRA-certified handgun instructor in your area so you can sign up and learn the fundamentals properly from the beginning.

[Kevin Mc]

Just understand that merely being popular on a forum doesn't mean the gun will be ideal for you and/or or your wife. I'm the first to say I think the P30 is an outstanding choice for a first time shooter willing to spend the coin for it. But if you have the ability to do so, I'd find a rental range nearby and at least put a few rounds downrange through different guns to understand their manual of arms and quirks a little better.

Searching the Internet for an NRA-certified handgun instructor in your area so you can sign up and learn the fundamentals properly from the beginning.

Hi Todd,

Thanks, and yes I completely understand, I didn't mean to sound trite, I was just a little surprised by the nearly universal recommendation for the P30. I will email my instructor and see if he has a P30 we can try.

We will also be taking additional training with our instructor who is NRA certified.

Kevin

[ToddG]

Kevin -- Understood. I'm certainly not trying to dissuade you. If I could have only one handgun I'd pick a P30 myself. But there's a much higher percentage of P30 fans around here than on most other forums... just didn't want you to get the impression that four out of five doctors recommend the P30, as it were.

[Cool Breeze]

I'm going to recommend looking into Glock as well. I think it is difficult to go wrong with a Glock 17 or 19. I have nothing against a P30 and have never shot one. HK makes a great product but it is expensive. I think approx 2k for 2 guns that you have never shot before is a lot of coin. 2 Glocks are approx 50% less than that.

At the minimum, you should try to find someone else's to shoot to see if you and your wife would like them. I think it would be a great idea to get two of the same guns for parts and mag interchangeability. But I think it is more important that a gun fits your hands and works for you. The most important thing is putting rounds on target and reliability. IMHO! Just my .02 cents