New IDPA shooter looking for recommendations

[agoldin]

Hello All,

I'm not new to firearms (as I've been in the reserves for some time now) but am new to competition shooting. I've been shooting at local IDPA events for a couple months and been having fun and improving my skills. Recently I shot an IDPA qualifier and just barely qualified marksman. I'm using a stock Beretta 92FS (because it's so similar to the M9) and want to stay with it.

I'd like to tap into the expertise of the forum to see how I can improve my scores. From the details I've posted below, I'm going to go ahead and say I need to improve both accuracy and time. The most difficult stage for me is still Stage 3. What recommendations can you suggest? What specific drills should I do to improve my overall score?

Thanks!

Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3
String 1 5.52 6.28 30.8
String 2 5.36 6.74 30.09
String 3 5.57 17.69 10.25
String 4 9.9 8.92
String 5 5.78
String 6 13.47
String 7 9.83
Raw Time55.43 39.63 71.14

Points Down
T1 9 1 15
T2 8 5 7
T3 8 5 13
Total PD 25 11 35
TotalTime67.93 45.13 88.64
Final score: 201.7

[Sal Picante]

Hello All,

I'm not new to firearms (as I've been in the reserves for some time now) but am new to competition shooting. I've been shooting at local IDPA events for a couple months and been having fun and improving my skills. Recently I shot an IDPA qualifier and just barely qualified marksman. I'm using a stock Beretta 92FS (because it's so similar to the M9) and want to stay with it.

I'd like to tap into the expertise of the forum to see how I can improve my scores. From the details I've posted below, I'm going to go ahead and say I need to improve both accuracy and time. The most difficult stage for me is still Stage 3. What recommendations can you suggest? What specific drills should I do to improve my overall score?

Thanks!

Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3
String 1 5.52 6.28 30.8
String 2 5.36 6.74 30.09
String 3 5.57 17.69 10.25
String 4 9.9 8.92
String 5 5.78
String 6 13.47
String 7 9.83
Raw Time55.43 39.63 71.14

Points Down
T1 9 1 15
T2 8 5 7
T3 8 5 13
Total PD 25 11 35
TotalTime67.93 45.13 88.64
Final score: 201.7

Buy a timer and start practicing. Ben Stoeger's first book is really excellent. (http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Shooting-Process-Success-ebook/dp/B00A2VR1SG/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368593341&sr=1-2&keywords=ben+stoeger+championship+shooting)

[littlejerry]

I'll also suggest buying Steve Anderson's dryfire book and start sound dryfire drills at home. It is geared toward IPSC but most of it will apply to IDPA

[NEPAKevin]

On the "local" IDPA information site, there are a number of good links for improvement tips and such about a third of the way down on the right:

NEPA IDPA Scores (http://nepaidpascores.net/)

For stage 3, one of the guys on the old IDPA mailing list suggested shooting around the barricade at a plate rack (or some similar array of reactive targets) at 25+ yards. HTH

[agoldin]

On the "local" IDPA information site, there are a number of good links for improvement tips and such about a third of the way down on the right:

NEPA IDPA Scores (http://nepaidpascores.net/)

For stage 3, one of the guys on the old IDPA mailing list suggested shooting around the barricade at a plate rack (or some similar array of reactive targets) at 25+ yards. HTH



Thanks gents for all the tips. you've certainly given me plenty with which to get started!

[ToddG]

For the most part, the IDPA Classifier is a good overall assessment of marksmanship at speed and gun handling. As such, you can improve your score best by simply improving your general shooting ability.

It's tough to assess simply from raw scores but that's a lot of points to give up on Stage 1. Those are all pretty easy shots. Did you miss any of the heads? The head box on an IDPA target is huge but the penalty for missing it is also significant so be sure you take the time necessary to make those hits.

Similarly, don't rush on Stage 3. But also keep in mind that time = points and points = time. If you spend five seconds breaking a -0 shot instead of 1 second breaking a -1 shot, you've made a mistake at least as far as the game is concerned. Don't let the cover get inside your head on Stage 3. Shooting is shooting. If you're positioning yourself in a way that you literally struggle with the barricade you need to move a little farther outboard.

Something else I wrote up years ago:

Strategies that work for a Master-class shooter are different than those that work for a MM-class shooter. Failing to realize, understand, and accept this truism is what keeps many people stuck at the MM/SS level.
Never miss a head shot. You shoot a total of nine head shots from a range of just 7 yd. The head on an IPDA target is huge-mongous(TM). If you can't hit the head in 1-2 seconds per shot at that range, then you are not ready to be shooting IDPA.
Be accurate but don't go so slowly that you shoot zero down on every target every string. Especially at the longer distances, dropping a point or two here and there can be worth what you gain in speed.
Know how to perform a proper reload. The number of people who consider themselves "serious" shooters who are absolutely in left field when it comes to reload technique is unbelievable. Reloads should be smooth and efficient. When they're on the clock, you should try to do them quickly. Shooting fast and then performing your reloads at a casual pace is just dumb.
Speaking of casual pace, there is exactly one string in the Classifier where you need to move quickly: Stage 3, String 2. When you move from the barricade to the barrel, RUN. Why in hell do some people just walk? The extra two or three seconds it takes you to move from Point A to Point B is reflected in your score.
There are two strings in the Classifier where you do not need to move quickly: Stage 2, Strings 1 & 2 (shooting while advancing, shooting while retreating). This is a game, not a gunfight. Focus 100% on your shooting and let your feet move as slowly as necessary to maximize your ability to deliver fast, accurate hits. I probably don't take three whole steps for either string, yet I'm still moving for every shot fired. Those are the rules, follow them.
Always start a string with your eyes on the target you are going to shoot first; whenever possible, have your torso turned toward that target. But keep your feet pointed toward the center of the target array (except for the first three strings in which you only engage one target; then have your whole body pointed at that one target before the buzzer goes off).
Don't hammer at the targets. Firing two lightning-fast shots makes it much harder/slower for most people to perform a smooth & fast transition to the next target. Giving up a few hundredths on your splits will gain you a couple tenths on your transitions. It's a good trade.
Perform a Tactical Reload (not Reload with Retention) on Stage 3 String 2, and the moment your fresh magazine is seated start sprinting towards the barrel. Get the spare mag stowed as you run.
Don't wear concealment. The idea of the Classifier is to compare apples to apples. The standards are based on shooting without concealment. If you wear a vest or shirt over your gun, you're really just sandbagging.
A lot of people like to follow a well thought out plan regarding how many rounds are in each magazine so that each stage works out just right. My advice: don't. Unless a string specifically requires you to start with a certain number of rounds in the gun, always start with the maximum allowed. Always have the maximum allowed in your spares. (a) This gives a little extra weight to the gun, reducing muzzle flip. (b) This will make your mags drop free faster and more reliably. (c) You will drastically reduce the odds of frakking up and having the wrong number of rounds in the gun. (d) You will have extra rounds in case you need to clear a stoppage.
Remember that it is just a game. The Classifier is actually a very good test of lots of shooting fundamentals, but it's controlled by a set of rules that reward and penalize certain things that have no relevancy to real life.

[BN]

What Todd said. :cool:

Something that has worked for me. On stage 3 string 1 where you shoot from both sides of the barricade. I always set up before the beep to shoot from my weak side of the barricade first. This is the most awkward stance for me. If my feet are already in place, the shots are less awkward. I start with a funny bend in my weak side leg that lets me shoot more accurately. When I switch to the strong side, my feet automatically go into the right position.

I do a RWR here. I eject the mag into my weak hand, drop down, place it in my front pocket and sweep around for my fresh mag. Saves a little time and is very smooth.

[ToddG]

And I can vouch for Bill, he's shot a few IDPA matches. :cool:

[SteveK]

Yes he has...but mostly with those funny looking guns with the round thingys in the middle of them.

[ADulay]

ToddG's reply is spot on.

Also, do NOT miss those head shots early on!

AD

[ToddG]

Yes he has...but mostly with those funny looking guns with the round thingys in the middle of them.

Yeah but his wife carries a Glock and you do not want to mess with her. She knows how to shoot!

[jhprice]

this is my first post but i shoot idpa best thing i can tell you is slow down work on making every shot count. The penalties are heavier for missing and failure to neutralize than the time issue for taking the extra 1 or 2 seconds to hit every score i shoot all head shots except moving targets and steel ones and there is no way to tell where you need the help from reading scoring lots of dry fire setup targets on wall i like 6 inch squares practice dry fire on these 2 shots each draw from conceal carry the practice also remember 1st rule of dry fire practice no bullets allowed in room where dry fire and clear your gun ist add snap caps aqnd practice practice practice.

jhp

[agoldin]

Thanks for the comments everyone. So far have:
* downloaded the iphone app to use my phone as a timer, and
* am reading the "Champion Shooting" book recommended above.
Now it's time to come up with some drills to address specific defiencies, such as off-hand shooting, and better overall accuracy.
See you at the range!

[Sal Picante]

Thanks for the comments everyone. So far have:
* downloaded the iphone app to use my phone as a timer, and
* am reading the "Champion Shooting" book recommended above.
Now it's time to come up with some drills to address specific defiencies, such as off-hand shooting, and better overall accuracy.
See you at the range!

Dude, that book took me from zero to zero... err "ok"... ;)

Next step? Start an online training journal so we can make fun of you if/when you stop practicing!

[cclaxton]

First: Most important comment from Todd: "... you can improve your score best by simply improving your general shooting ability." Focus on the basics: Grip, trigger operations, sighting, mag changes, and marksmanship. At MM and SS levels, working on the draw is not as important as these other skills.

Second: Steve Anderson's Dry Fire regime is excellent....I second that recommendation. But you have to complement that with live fire. Everyday dry fire drills, and 1-2 times weekly live fire.

Third: Shoot lots of matches. I am not a big fan of the classifier...it is one step above range practice at a stall. The IDPA game is a mental game and you have to shoot enough matches to gain experience with the rules, the gameplay, the tricks that Match Directors pull, and the gaming side. I have been shooting for almost two years now and I still make gameplay mistakes. This weekend at the Burt Schaffer Sanctioned Match I was supposed to shoot 8 targets, Strong, Freestyle, Weakhand...I shot the whole thing freestyle. (My times were great, but probably didn't make up for the 6 second penalty I got).

Fourth: Enjoy being marksman. I have a wall full of Marksman trophies for 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place from sanctioned matches. One day a match bump will come, but in the meantime, it's really great to place at sanctioned matches. Enjoy the trip....you will get to your destination eventually.

Cody

[chuck s]

I too feel that learning how to approach a match is more important than practicing the classifyer. Certainly practice is very important to skill building, in fact, it is absolutly a must. However, you can improve your match scores significantly by just moving very fast while not shooting. Do not try to creep up on a target(it does not shoot back), cover barriers are not your friend, do not go deep into one, and know when to reload and do it quickly

[agoldin]

I too feel that learning how to approach a match is more important than practicing the classifyer. Certainly practice is very important to skill building, in fact, it is absolutly a must. However, you can improve your match scores significantly by just moving very fast while not shooting. Do not try to creep up on a target(it does not shoot back), cover barriers are not your friend, do not go deep into one, and know when to reload and do it quickly

Good point. Do you have any thoughts about a couple of drills or something specific in terms of preparation for match day?

[cclaxton]

Good point. Do you have any thoughts about a couple of drills or something specific in terms of preparation for match day?

Dry Fire: I have a bunch of 8.5x11 IDPA paper targets around the house on the walls at different levels. After putting a laser in the chamber, or twice checking my gun for an empty chamber, I shoot the targets focusing on transitioning and improving my speed to target, sight pic, pull. I also work on moving while shooting since that is a particular area of weakness for me.

Then for live fire: I practice a slow draw, grip, pushout, sight pic, pull slowly, then faster, then two shots. Then, I push the target to about 25 yards and practice slow shots and marksmanship.

But the truth is that we each have our own weaknesses and strengths. So you should keep a journal and start identifying your weaknesses and then use drills to focus on those weaknesses. Then, when you improve that, focus on the next weakness, etc.

Thanks,
Cody

[Sal Picante]

Good point. Do you have any thoughts about a couple of drills or something specific in terms of preparation for match day?

Go to the drills section of Pistol-Training.com (http://pistol-training.com/drills) or Ben Stoeger's Site. (http://benstoeger.com/joomla30/index.php/drills)

[ADulay]

Good point. Do you have any thoughts about a couple of drills or something specific in terms of preparation for match day?

Agoldin,

You do know that the very first time that timer beep goes off, most of these messages will be forgotten!!

Trust me on this!!

AD (oh yeah, and have fun shooting the match!) :cool:

[Chris Rhines]

For IDPA-specific practice drills, I spend a lot of time working on my position setups/use of cover. I frequently shoot Steve Anderson's Field Course Simulator drill - I banged out a quick SketchUp design of the setup, just pretend that the targets are IDPA rather than IPSC Metrics:

1512

Start in the box, loaded and holstered. On the beep, move to one barricade and engage all three targets with two shots each, using cover around the outside of the barricade. Reload if desired, then move to the other barricade and engage all three targets again, using cover around the outside of the barricade.

I'll shoot this 5-6 times standing, and 5-6 times taking a knee at each position, to simulate low cover.

The thing that I like about this drill is the flexibility of the setup. You can vary the target distances and positions to make it easier or harder. You can engage the targets around the inside or the outside of the barricade. You can engage the targets on the move between positions. It's a good general-purpose match drill that you can adapt to your needs.

[cclaxton]

For IDPA-specific practice drills, I spend a lot of time working on my position setups/use of cover. I frequently shoot Steve Anderson's Field Course Simulator drill - I banged out a quick SketchUp design of the setup, just pretend that the targets are IDPA rather than IPSC Metrics:

1512

Start in the box, loaded and holstered. On the beep, move to one barricade and engage all three targets with two shots each, using cover around the outside of the barricade. Reload if desired, then move to the other barricade and engage all three targets again, using cover around the outside of the barricade.

I'll shoot this 5-6 times standing, and 5-6 times taking a knee at each position, to simulate low cover.

The thing that I like about this drill is the flexibility of the setup. You can vary the target distances and positions to make it easier or harder. You can engage the targets around the inside or the outside of the barricade. You can engage the targets on the move between positions. It's a good general-purpose match drill that you can adapt to your needs.

Excellent Drill and Layout. Shooting while advancing to cover or retreating back to the box would be good, too. Add a little extra challenge by doing head shots and/or sequence. I find 6 round mags work well for three targets, forcing a mag change.

But here is my question for you, Chris: When you go to low cover, do you get as close as possible to the barricade to make it easier to get to the far targets?

Also, what percentage do you allocate to strong hand only and weak hand only drills?

Thanks,
Cody

[Chris Rhines]

But here is my question for you, Chris: When you go to low cover, do you get as close as possible to the barricade to make it easier to get to the far targets?

Also, what percentage do you allocate to strong hand only and weak hand only drills?

Thanks,
Cody

Cody,

It depends on the low cover - and understand I'm not an expert on this. My goal when setting up in a shooting position is to be able to engage each target with as little movement of my feet (or knees) as possible. When shooting from low cover, that usually entails getting closer to the barricade than I would standing. But it depends on the shape of the barricade and the position of the targets.

I don't shoot as much SHO and WHO now, as I did when I was first starting out. I'll do some SHO and some WHO transfers maybe once or twice a month. I do practice them in my dryfire 3-4 times per week.

[Stuffbreaker]

I'm just a couple seconds off SSP Master, and can identify with there being a difference in strategy between the upper and lower divisions in the Classifier. Up through Expert, I shot it as clean as possible at a relatively conservative speed for my skills. Using this strategy, I hit a plateau at ~115 seconds. Speed is important at the Master level, and I started a very speed-intensive dry fire routine a couple months ago. In two classifiers run this month, I dropped 10-15 seconds off my previous best scores. Dry fire is a great training tool for shooters of all levels. Lower level shooters eat up a lot of time with sloppy reloads, slow manipulations and preventable malfunctions (unseated mags and empty chambers from not press checking or mag tugging when making ready). Significant gains can be made in these areas in dry fire.

I'm finding that Stage 3 of the Classifier is the one place in IDPA where it helps to crowd cover just a little bit. In String 1, you have to retract your pistol into your workspace for the reload anyway, so having your gun slightly ahead of the barricade doesn't really slow down the transition from right to left. By moving just a couple inches closer to the barricade/barrel than normal, it makes it easier to line up on the targets to the far right and left without shuffling your feet or canting the gun sideways.

[agoldin]

Agoldin,

You do know that the very first time that timer beep goes off, most of these messages will be forgotten!!

Trust me on this!!

AD (oh yeah, and have fun shooting the match!) :cool:

Ha! Yep, I know you're right, as it's already happened to me :)

[agoldin]

Dry Fire: I have a bunch of 8.5x11 IDPA paper targets around the house on the walls at different levels. After putting a laser in the chamber, or twice checking my gun for an empty chamber, I shoot the targets focusing on transitioning and improving my speed to target, sight pic, pull. I also work on moving while shooting since that is a particular area of weakness for me.

Then for live fire: I practice a slow draw, grip, pushout, sight pic, pull slowly, then faster, then two shots. Then, I push the target to about 25 yards and practice slow shots and marksmanship.

But the truth is that we each have our own weaknesses and strengths. So you should keep a journal and start identifying your weaknesses and then use drills to focus on those weaknesses. Then, when you improve that, focus on the next weakness, etc.

Thanks,
Cody

Good stuff, Cody. Thanks!