Mounted light on a duty pistol?

[Mark]

Somewhere around 2005-2007 running a light on a pistol for uniformed patrol became all the rage in my department. In the past year or so I have noticed that several people who's knowledge on pistol tactics I respect have quietly stopped using pistol mounted lights and have gone back to handhelds exclusively. What are the thoughts of everyone here?

[Le Français]

I use a WML on duty. The possibility of having to use the pistol when only one hand is available was the deciding factor. All the techniques for using a handheld light in conjunction with a pistol are all well and good (and should be learned/practiced), but all of them depend on that off hand being free and operable. I'd rather have the option of seeing, and shooting, truly one handed if necessary.

[Kevin B.]

In my view, a well-developed low-light skill set includes the use of both hand-held lights and WMLs.

[Chuck Haggard]

While a pistol mounted light is very nice I don't think it's a "must have", speaking from 26 years of working the street on various forms of night shift and 18 years as a SWAT guy.

I'll note that one of my mentors is Ken Good, who is the god of tactical low light stuff, he doesn't use a WML on his handguns.

[ToddG]

In my view, a well-developed low-light skill set includes the use of both hand-held lights and WMLs.

This (assuming the shooter ever uses a WML, obviously).

If I wasn't concerned about concealment I'd most likely carry a gun with a WML. While many of my friends and students somehow manage it, personally I've never been able to achieve all day comfort with a WML in an aiwb holster. For me, the benefits of that carry mode outweigh the benefits of a WML.

[David Armstrong]

+1 what Todd said. For me the cost is more than the possible benefit. I keep a small light available when I CCW, and my nightstand gun has a ligt attached, but for usual CCW stuff a WML is not worth it for me.

[DocGKR]

Particularly in a uniformed situation, a handgun WML is just another tool in the box and gives a bit more options to supplement the more critical hand-held light.

[Lon]

I run a WML for SWAT missions, but don't when working patrol. For me, it's because I have never been able to find a holster that doesn't end up hurting after sitting in a patrol car for 30 minutes or so. Plus, I am confident in my one hand shooting and flashlight technique. Most cops I know are not and see the WML as a gift from God.

I'm a huge fan of the x2/300 with the DG switch and that what I use for SWAT. Off duty, I carry a Fenix PD20 or a Kel-Tec light with me.

As a police trainer, my main concern with my guys using a WML is when they use it when they should be using a hand held light.

[Chuck Haggard]

A very real issue I see with PMLs is that so few guys know how to use them properly, and often think of them as a search tool, which they really aren't except in a few specific scenarios.

In the cop world there is WAY too much pointing guns at people that don't need guns pointed at them going on, and using WMLs as one's only search tool just adds to the problem.

A hand held light is your primary search tool, and I tend to use HHLs even when I am running a carbine.

[Captain]

This is where I land. I carried a WML for years when I carried IWB strong-side. When I switched to AIWB, I dropped the light. However, I always have a handheld on me (it's necessary for work), I've just had to start practicing my hand-held technique again.

Honestly, with some of the smaller WML coming out, I may attempt it again in the future in AIWB.


If I wasn't concerned about concealment I'd most likely carry a gun with a WML. While many of my friends and students somehow manage it, personally I've never been able to achieve all day comfort with a WML in an aiwb holster. For me, the benefits of that carry mode outweigh the benefits of a WML.

[Dr. No]

I can't think of a single reason for duty use to NOT have a WML on a pistol, especially in a SWAT role. Shield work? How are you going to see? Your other hand is tied up with the shield. I have to deploy a bang - now I'm going to stow my light & pistol, deploy my bang, then re-deploy my light and pistol? Slow... slow ....

You shoot less accurately and slower with one hand. Period. This diminishes your ability for precision in high risk scenarios.

If someone is skilled with using a handheld I can certainly respect them preferring to use that, but to say that it is superior to handheld deployment doesn't seem logical in any fashion.

TPD - I respect you brother, but how in the world do you effectively run a handheld with a rifle? Or do you mean you search in non-SWAT roles (alarm calls, etc) with a handheld vs a weapon light?

If you're saying you're going to do an entry with a handheld and a rifle, you're nuts!

[Chuck Whitlock]

The key is to understand that the PML does NOT replace the handheld light.

[JBP55]

The key is to understand that the PML does NOT replace the handheld light.

Bingo!

[Chuck Haggard]

but how in the world do you effectively run a handheld with a rifle? Or do you mean you search in non-SWAT roles (alarm calls, etc) with a handheld vs a weapon light?

If you're saying you're going to do an entry with a handheld and a rifle, you're nuts!

One can search very effectively with a hand held light and a long gun, of course the smaller and lighter the long gun the easier this becomes.


Going on entries as such? No, not at all.

In this conversation folks have taken the WML (I'll use pistol mounted light as PML from this point for my own ease of use/clarity) into several areas, EDC/concealed carry, every day coppery/uniformed patrol work, specialty SWAT type work such as driving shields, rifle lights.


IMHO a serious rifle/shotgun/SMG needs a light. Period, end of discussion.

Shield drivers need a PML, but they also need a shield mounted light. Also emphatically not up for discussion. Anyone who argues against this equipment in these venues is an idiot.


How the WML/PML is used is very much up for discussion, and how many people use WMLs, especially PMLs, is not the best way to do business.


In a search, as opposed to a dynamic clearing, the hand held light is very, very useful in helping keep bullets from hitting your body. Modified FBI techniques well applied is the way to go when searching an area for a threat and you don't know their location.

Lots of folks poo-poo the idea of anything but a PML as the PML is the better equipment for shooting accurately. I think this is classic cart-before-the-horse thinking. One must find the bad guy first, PID, and do so without getting shot from ambush, before accurately shooting the bad guy becomes your problem.


Would anyone here use a headlamp to conduct a search for a wanted felon who was hiding in a large structure/proverbial dark alley/field with high grass and brush?

Why not?


If the answer is "that will get you killed, the light is right there on your head to draw fire towards your grape",,,,,,, then I ask, where is your WML/PML when you are searching?

More when I have time.

[aboveandbeyond]

then I ask, where is your WML/PML when you are searching?

You got my answer..



Modified FBI techniques well applied is the way to go when searching an area for a threat and you don't know their location.

Before taking SouthNarc's AMIS class, I was a modified neck index guy. However, that proved to be fatal. How or why?

Answer: SouthNarc's principle on lowlight. "Light draws vision, lights draw fire"

When applying neck index, I was shot numerous times center mass and face. When I tried out SN's modified FBI, the number of center mass hits on me decreased significantly. This force on force training really has its merits

[Chuck Haggard]

You got my answer..



Before taking SouthNarc's AMIS class, I was a modified neck index guy. However, that proved to be fatal. How or why?

Answer: SouthNarc's principle on lowlight. "Light draws vision, lights draw fire"

When applying neck index, I was shot numerous times center mass and face. When I tried out SN's modified FBI, the number of center mass hits on me decreased significantly. This force on force training really has its merits

Neck index is a shooting technique, really useful if you don't have night sights. Harries is another shooting technique. Modified FBI is a searching technique, one that really helps keep bullets out of your body.

I thought modified FBI was old school silly ass bullshit way back when I first saw Ken Good teach it at the first low-light instructor school I went to. The third time that week I had an incoming round hit my 6P right in the bezel I thought there may be something to that idea.

Note that using a WML of any kind has far more in common with shooting from Harries or neck index.