Hornady 45ACP TAP - damaged primer out of the box!

[aspect]

Hey folks,

Wanted to post up about a potential issue with Hornady ammo...specifically the 45 AUTO +P 200gr TAP FPD. Just picked up a couple boxes at the local gun store (would have gotten the 230 but they didn't have any...), and happened to open up one of the boxes to oogle the fancy rounds while waiting in the car for my wife. On inspection, I found this (sorry for enormous images but hard to see the damage when they are scaled down):

http://i.imgur.com/j7662Wb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UVhk9uC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/S3LT2MT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zYHKShy.jpg

Glad I looked the rounds over before putting them in a carry mag! I'm kinda shocked to see this sort of thing from such premium-level ammo. In case you can't make it out, the lot number is 3112633.

I've reached out to Hornady via the comment form on their website, will post up how they respond.

[JDM]

Inspect, thoroughly, every round of defensive ammo you plan to load into your defensive guns.

This post is a good reminder of that.

[Odin Bravo One]

Another example that EVERYONE makes crap at some point in time. Even the top tier manufacturer's occasionally have QC issues.

And as BOM pointed out........absolutely inspect every single round you intend to put into service as offensive/defensive ammunition.

In another thread, TAM points out/reminds us that most ammo makers are running at max capacity, and a very possible side effect is less effective QC. We would all be well served to keep that in the back (or front) of our minds as we head out to our various ranges. Maybe we don't take as much for granted with our ammo, and save ourselves a blown gun, or worse, a "click" when you NEEDED a "bang".

[ST911]

Deformed primers, rolled case rims, dented/dinged cases, undercharged rounds are on the increase in the current craziness. Some are better at holding standards than others.

Hornady CS is GTG. They'll take care of you.

[Chuck Haggard]

Over the past few years I have seen bad Ranger-T, Gold Dot and Hornady. Currently sitting on two boxes of PDX-1 that need to go back to the factory.


YOU are the final inspector in the QC train of duty ammo.

[ToddG]

Concur with all above. (see blog post here (http://pistol-training.com/archives/5089))

A buddy of mine has a huge collection of factory-produced faulty rounds. It happens. Trust no one!

[David Armstrong]

Agreed with all the above. I've had bad rounds from pretty much all the major players over the years. So I inspect each round that goes into the carry guns and size-check them as well to make sure they will feed correctly.

[JAD]

Hanging out with senior shooters will provide at least one anecdote for every manufacturer -- and I think we can expect a pretty good spike in this sort of thing as folks try to keep pace with demand.

My favorite is my buddy's Gold Dot with no flash hole. Just you try to inspect for that. He used it as a reason for reloading his carry ammo -- packing his own parachute as it were. Hard to argue with, but I just practice malfunction clearances.

[Odin Bravo One]

My favorite is my buddy's Gold Dot with no flash hole. Inspect for that. He used it as a reason for reloading his carry ammo -- packing his own parachute as it were.

Not sure I follow the "inspect for a flash hole".

[Chuck Haggard]

Not sure I follow the "inspect for a flash hole".

I think he meant "try to inspect for that". No flash hole is one of my worries. The FBI just had some Winchester duty ammo that had that very issue.



The no powder in the case thing can at least be caught if you weigh your rounds.

[JAD]

TPD's right -- I edited my post for clarity.

[SecondsCount]

This is not practice ammunition but ammo that people are going to use to defend their life. For the prices paid for defense ammo, it should be without error.

As someone who works in the factory automation industry, selling products that would solve this and many other quality issues with ammunition, I find the posted flaw to be completely unacceptable. Overall length, rim, and case mouth dimensions, flash hole presence/absence, and primer placement/depth, can all be 100% inspected on the fly.

While most of the manufacturing plants still rely on 1960's technology, there are a few that are starting to implement newer technology. Last year I worked with a customer that was building a machine for a major ammunition manufacturer. The function of this machine was to precisely measuring primer depth on 38 special cases. A few years ago I worked with another company to create an automated inspection machine for making sure that a premier line of shotgun hulls were 100% inspected before they were loaded. Hopefully they will all catch on to the technology that is available to them.

[JAD]

I work in high volume manufacturing of a mission critical product at an AS9100 facility. I don't believe in zero defect by any means. Stuff happens.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Concur with all above. (see blog post here (http://pistol-training.com/archives/5089))

A buddy of mine has a huge collection of factory-produced faulty rounds. It happens. Trust no one!

Your blog post mentioned using ammo from ATK, Winchester or Remington - what about Hornady or Black Hills?

Where do they fit into the quality spectrum?

[Zhurdan]

I don't believe that damage was caused PRIOR to the loading process. I've had flattened and damaged primers while loading AFTER inspecting cases, primers (both sides) and bullets. Sometimes... s#@t happens. When you figure that they are running 1000's of rounds per hour, per machine (probably more), they are bound to have one that bounces in the pusher and goes in wonkey.

Always check your ammo. 360!

[ToddG]

This is not practice ammunition but ammo that people are going to use to defend their life. For the prices paid for defense ammo, it should be without error.

Manufacturers usually don't charge much more for premium JHP than they do for practice ammo. The increase in price happens at the wholesale and/or retail level. For example, I pay less than a 30% difference for 124gr +p HST than I do for 124gr American Eagle practice ammo. At times I even consider doing all my shooting with the HST just because it tends to be more consistent, more accurate, and obviously it perfectly matches my carry load.

I'd have to agree with JAD about 100% error free ammunition. It's just not feasible even if it is possible. Most of the premium JHPs are produced on automated lines with substantial error checking/QC processes but some rounds still sometimes slip through. But I certainly hope the technological advancements you mentioned find their way into the system.

FWIW, Big Three ammunition (in my experience), and premium JHP ammo in particular, is so much more reliable than the guns we shoot it out of that ammo reliability is almost a needless worry.


Your blog post mentioned using ammo from ATK, Winchester or Remington - what about Hornady or Black Hills?

Where do they fit into the quality spectrum?

I have very little personal experience with Hornady ammo... their practice stuff is expensive and their JHP stuff tends to be better suited to killing armored bears than 2-legged villains. I've had great luck with Black Hills and consider their remanufactured ammunition one of the few I'd be willing to trust for practice. Their "red box" non-reloaded ammo is also excellent by reputation but I have not personally shot enough of it to make an intelligent recommendation.

[JodyH]

I long ago wrote off Hornady due to serious defects in their "premium" ammunition.
The last straw was when I received several boxes of their TAP 12ga. #00 with horrible crimps.
I contacted their CS and sent them in for replacement.
Over half of the replacement boxes has the exact same crimp issue.

I've pretty much standardized on Federal for all my serious ammunition needs, HST for handguns and Flite-Control for my shotguns.
Black Hills red box is the only exception, I use their 77gr. 5.56 in my 10" AR15.

[ST911]

Your blog post mentioned using ammo from ATK, Winchester or Remington - what about Hornady or Black Hills?

Where do they fit into the quality spectrum?

I'm not Todd, but this is my lane. I have used BHA new, reman, and seconds of both extensively for many years. Standard deviations, accuracy, and consistency across the board are superb, as is their CS and tech support to end users. Every manufacturer has a premium line with its best foot forward, but my experience is that BHA puts that level of effort in the entire catalog.

[SecondsCount]

Nobody is saying that a manufacturing company can turn out zero defects but there are processes and mechanisms that can catch a primer that is placed in a cartridge sideways.

[Odin Bravo One]

Until SkyNet becomes self-aware, there are going to be humans involved. Wherever you have human interaction with production, you have error probability, and it's not zero.........

[Tamara]

You know those little boxes that the half-cases of defensive ammo ship in? What are they, about 8" on a side? I had one of those at the range at which I used to work on which I wrote "THE BOX OF SHAME" in Sharpie, and tossed the defective ammo that customers would bring off the range into the thing.

It needed to be emptied out more than once over a three-year period.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm not Todd, but this is my lane. I have used BHA new, reman, and seconds of both extensively for many years. Standard deviations, accuracy, and consistency across the board are superb, as is their CS and tech support to end users. Every manufacturer has a premium line with its best foot forward, but my experience is that BHA puts that level of effort in the entire catalog.

I have little in the way of experience with Black Hills, mostly from one of our smaller agencies locally that uses and issues their ammo, and a bud who recently got a bad case of 5.56 50gr TSX from BH, the replacement case was also bad.

Always inspect and test fire your duty ammo.

Always.