Week 65: Cold Shot Challenge

[JV_]

Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Friday 3-May-2013.

Range: varies
Target: 3x5 card
Start position: from concealment or a duty/retention holster
Rounds fired: 1

The perfect drill for folks who are suffering from the ammo drought.

You choose the distance at which to shoot the target, a 3x5 card.
You choose the PAR time you'll give yourself to draw from concealment (or a retention holster) and score the hit in one shot. If your range does not allow you to draw from a holster, instead start the drill from the ready position without a round in the chamber (condition 3).

This needs to be the very first shot you fire that day. You step onto the range, set up the shot, and do it. You only get to fire one shot and you only get one chance. Either you hit, or you miss. Part of the challenge is setting a distance & PAR that are challenging but still achievable when you are completely cold.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start position (concealed, duty, or condition 3).
Range selected.
PAR time selected.
Was it a hit or a miss?
Make & model of gun and holster.


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[JHC]

NICE!!!!

[CCT125US]

HK P30 V3
Heine Straight Eights
5 Shot SME
7 yards concealed
Par selected 1.6
Hit in 1.53

Since the previous DOTW closed out before I posted:
Shot on 04.23.13
5.26c 1.59 .55 2.08 .37 .34 .33
5.47c 1.78 .51 2.16 .37 .34 .31
7.93 -H -B 1.56 .44 2.01 .34 .31 .27

Total: 18.66

[JHC]

Start position: holstered, concealed, open jacket
• Range selected: 25 yards
• Time: 4.75 sec
• Was it a hit or a miss? Miss, 2" below the 3x5
• Make & model of gun and holster: Gen 4 G26 from a FIST IWB

Heavy rain swamped the action bays and rain showers persisted this AM. So set up on the covered bullseye range where the range is limited to 25 or 50 yards.

[Mr_White]

• Range selected: 25 yards


I love it. :cool:

[2alpha-down0]

S&W M&P9 in a JM Custom AIWB holster under a T-shirt and jacket

Par: 1.8
Range: 7yds

1.78 and a miss low in the B-zone.

[Prdator]

Gen 4 G35, "Keeper" Closed cover.
1.8 par at 10yds Maybe a bit to sporty for me having a hurt support hand wrist and no shooting for a long time... It was a miss ( 1/4' low) in 1.82.

[nwhpfan]

Concealed, AIWB JM Kydex
20 Yards
1.6
Miss
P2000 LEM 9mm 124g GDHP. The one that had been chambered since the last time I shot this particular pistol.

[JHC]

Concealed, AIWB JM Kydex
20 Yards
1.6
Miss
P2000 LEM 9mm 124g GDHP. The one that had been chambered since the last time I shot this particular pistol.

Wow that is really pedal to the metal at that distance.

[GJM]

Glock 17, Fricke Gideon, Filson vest.

3x5 at 4 yards in par 1.30.
hit, but over time at 1.31

[Mr_White]

Concealed
25 yards
1.5 PAR
Miss!
Gen3 G34, Ameriglo Defoor sights, Keeper holster

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8126/8694944036_400834cd97.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/8694944036/) 0429131235-00 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/8694944036/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8693824219_cab5c2da92.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/8693824219/) 0429131236-00 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/8693824219/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

[GJM]

My hat is off to anyone that can consistently hit a 3x5 at 25 with a full speed draw. After reading JHC's entry, this afternoon I messed around with the 3x5 at 25, and found the only way I could consistently make that hit is with a precision shot.

[ToddG]

Part of the challenge is setting a distance & PAR that are challenging but still achievable when you are completely cold.

So far 1 in 7 achieved a hit in time. Just sayin' ...

[Mr_White]

Part of the challenge is setting a distance & PAR that are challenging but still achievable when you are completely cold.

I don't know, when I look at the PARs and distances chosen by participants so far, they all seem to me to be 'challenging but still achievable.'

[GJM]

So far 1 in 7 achieved a hit in time. Just sayin' ...

Learning has occurred.

Glock 17, Fricke Gideon, Filson vest
10 yards. concealment, 3x5

par 2.0, hit 1.65

[JHC]

My hat is off to anyone that can consistently hit a 3x5 at 25 with a full speed draw. After reading JHC's entry, this afternoon I messed around with the 3x5 at 25, and found the only way I could consistently make that hit is with a precision shot.

In the last 6 mos or so I've done a fair amount of the drill to draw and make an A zone hit at 25 yds in decreasing time frames. My goal was to get to 1.5 sec as I've seen demo'd on a vid posted somewhere around here but the best I've done consistently is 2.15-2.5 second ranges for about 80-90% success rate.

The 3x5 card was of course another thing altogether but I've shot within a 3x5 card slowfire groups with the subcompact so I thought give a few more seconds it was doable. It wasn't on the one cold shot attempt I took.

My intent that morning was to use our more flexible action bays and make the attempt at 15 yards in 2.5 seconds but as earlier noted, it was a swamp. I'd like to see this one continue for a while. I'll return to it.

[GJM]

I don't know, when I look at the PARs and distances chosen by participants so far, they all seem to me to be 'challenging but still achievable.'

If I put my Todd hat on for a moment, I bet he would say that the goal should be 90 per cent -- meaning that 90 per cent of the shots hit within the allotted time.

[Corey]

Went to the range Saturday and tried this.

Start position: concealed, S&W M&P9 full size with my carry ammo (Federal HST 147 gr.)
Range selected: 7 yards
Par: I looked at my first shot time on my FAST drills for the past month and selected a par of 2.2 seconds. Out of 12 runs in the past month I had 10 runs where I made both hits on the 3x5 and 3 three of those runs had a first shot under 2.20 with the fastest being a 2.08, so hard but achievable for me.

Hit in 1.86!!!

Somebody tell me how that happened and how I can do it every time.

Just out of curiosity a did three runs after that of 2 shots on the 3x5 at 7 yards and made all hits with all three runs under 2.5 sec. My fastest was 2.38 for 2 shots, a time I have never done on a Fast drill.

Tried again Monday, same set up except I went for 10 yards this time and the par was 2.5 seconds
Hit in 2.26!

I am going to quit this drill while I’m ahead.:cool:

[167]

3x5 cards at speed are the bane of my existence.

Concealed under closed front cover garment, Gen2 G21 with 185gr Rem Bonded Golden Saber, Battle Hook rear with factory front sight out of a Theis IWB (Crossbreed clone).

Range 7yd, PAR selected 2.5 sec, missed high at 2.40.

[Prdator]

If I put my Todd hat on for a moment, I bet he would say that the goal should be 90 per cent -- meaning that 90 per cent of the shots hit within the allotted time.


3x5 is a Low % target so I'd bet he'd say 100% hits.

[ToddG]

What I'd say is that the description was too vague and apparently left people with a different impression than the one I wanted to convey.

Basically, I was hoping folks would attempt to figure out where the edge was for their 100% success rate on a 3x5 at (whatever) distance in (whatever) seconds. Would some folks miss? Sure. Would some folks be too generous with their time? Sure. But most folks would probably come pretty close to riding along that edge without going over.

The idea is to measure expectation vs delivery. If the folks who missed really did expect to hit, then the DotW has served a purpose by showing that cold performance tends to display deficiencies in consistency very well.

[nwhpfan]

So far 1 in 7 achieved a hit in time. Just sayin' ...

Sayin' what? Confident, not confident enough, think your better than you are, choked under pressure..what does this really say - so far? I don't know-I have some ideas.. This is interesting to me. What does this really mean or say? Did you set the bar too high or did you set it too low. Is somebody wrong or right if they did either?

I missed, and I wasn't planning on it, and I was certain I was going to hit the target and was surprised I hadn't. I thought a lot about what I wanted to do before I set up the drill. 7 yards 2 seconds; no problem; what was the point, I know I can do that.....

10 yards 2 second, 15 yards 2 seconds...20 yards 2 second...yep, yep, yep. 25 yards...lots of variables so I shortened the distance - now I thought about time... 1.5 was too quick for me but 1.7, I could do that; was I too confident, too whatever, not aware of my own capabilites????

For me, my time and distance was at the edge of what I knew I could do. If the drill was -if you miss you have to do 25 burpees, I would have slowed the time; is that a penalty I should have put on myself to ensure success-and how important of a component is that to this drill...

Now, had I selected 7 yards and 2 seconds and hit. I would have hung back to see if I got a free target and never given this another thought.

[JHC]

In any case I intend to play with this one a good deal more. Kinda tough when you get one cold shot for score to work out PARs for different distances ;)

But his one has hooked my imagination so I'll hit it again when can next return to the range (two weeks :mad:)

[Mr_White]

Sayin' what? Confident, not confident enough, think your better than you are, choked under pressure..what does this really say - so far? I don't know-I have some ideas.. This is interesting to me. What does this really mean or say? Did you set the bar too high or did you set it too low. Is somebody wrong or right if they did either?

I missed, and I wasn't planning on it, and I was certain I was going to hit the target and was surprised I hadn't. I thought a lot about what I wanted to do before I set up the drill. 7 yards 2 seconds; no problem; what was the point, I know I can do that.....

10 yards 2 second, 15 yards 2 seconds...20 yards 2 second...yep, yep, yep. 25 yards...lots of variables so I shortened the distance - now I thought about time... 1.5 was too quick for me but 1.7, I could do that; was I too confident, too whatever, not aware of my own capabilites????

For me, my time and distance was at the edge of what I knew I could do. If the drill was -if you miss you have to do 25 burpees, I would have slowed the time; is that a penalty I should have put on myself to ensure success-and how important of a component is that to this drill...

Now, had I selected 7 yards and 2 seconds and hit. I would have hung back to see if I got a free target and never given this another thought.

Awesome post. I totally agree about the effect of an actual penalty for failure in this kind of drill.




I was hoping folks would attempt to figure out where the edge was for their 100% success rate on a 3x5 at (whatever) distance in (whatever) seconds.

I tried it again with a distance and PAR extremely likely to result in a hit.

Concealed
Gen3 G34, Ameriglo Defoor sights, Keeper holster
7 yards
1.5 PAR
Hit, 1.19

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8413/8701339494_f437d7f407.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/8701339494/) 0501131648-01 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/8701339494/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

I also tried as an experiment six one-shot draws to the 3x5 at 25 yards, just to see what would happen.

1.52 miss
1.92 miss
1.59 hit
1.35 miss
1.50 hit
1.41 hit

So I was 50/50. Wasn't cold at that point though.

I had the training group shoot this DotW as their first shot of the night and invited them to post their results in this thread.

[GJM]

I also tried as an experiment six one-shot draws to the 3x5 at 25 yards, just to see what would happen.

1.52 miss
1.92 miss
1.59 hit
1.35 miss
1.50 hit
1.41 hit

So I was 50/50. Wasn't cold at that point though.

I had the training group shoot this DotW as their first shot of the night and invited them to post their results in this thread.

My question is if you had to make, for example, a 90 per cent hit rate on those 25 yard 2x5 shots, what par time would you set, and/or would you have to transition to more of a precision shot? When I played around with the 25 yard exercise, I found I got them all around the 3x5, including some in, but had to transition to a precision style shot to reasonably guarantee getting them in. My question is about trying to figure out where/what necessitates a transition to a slower precision shot?

PS, sorry if this isn't appropriate for this thread -- should it be split into a new one?

[ToddG]

PS, sorry if this isn't appropriate for this thread -- should it be split into a new one?

Yes. We try to keep the DotW threads specifically to DotW results and necessary questions/clarifications about the drill.

[YVK]

For me, my time and distance was at the edge of what I knew I could do.

Just curious, have you ever hit 3x5 at 20 yards under 1.6 to know you could do it, or it is your perception that you can, based on your hits achieved at shorter distances or more generous par times?


My own submission, data from last week (range is closed for a cleanup this week):
23 or so feet
par 2.0
hit, 1.89.

Kolbeson AIWB, P30, 124 gr Aguila.

[BN]

Gen 4 G-17, Comp-Tac IWB, 5.11 vest.

7 yards
Par 2.5 seconds
Hit in 2.19.

I studied my records of first shots on the FAST Drill. 2.19 is very consistent with my past efforts. :)

[nwhpfan]

Just curious, have you ever hit 3x5 at 20 yards under 1.6 to know you could do it, or it is your perception that you can, based on your hits achieved at shorter distances or more generous par times?


My own submission, data from last week (range is closed for a cleanup this week):
23 or so feet
par 2.0
hit, 1.89.

Kolbeson AIWB, P30, 124 gr Aguila.


The only time I attempted to hit a 3.5 card at speed from 20 yards was on this drill. I frequently end my training with link below so I shoot cards frequently-.

http://pistol-training.com/drills/3x5-card-drill

But I took my experience with the following drill into consideration.

http://pistol-training.com/drills/warren-advanced-3-second-standards

This drill requires 3 head shots at 3 different heads, from 15 yards in less than 3 seconds. I can do that most of the time from my USPSA Production rig (at least string 1 and 2). 1.4 seconds seemed like plenty of time (at the time) to deal with 5 more yards, a little smaller target and from concealment.

[ST911]

Glock 19 (gen4), Glock sport/combat holster, untucked shirt, CCI Blazer 124gr FMJ.
7yds
2.0 par
2.20, miss. Darn close, but still a miss.

[JV_]

Gen3 19, AIWB (Shaggy), Untucked Polo.

7 Yards
1.80 Par
1.60 Hit

[Kyle Reese]

9mm Sig P229 E2 in a Shaggy, untucked polo.

Par time 2.5

Hit, DA, 2.43

Poor showing on my part, having not shot a DA/SA gun in some time.

[AJZ]

M&P9L Pro in a Comp-Tac OWB carried under jacket

Distance: 10yds
PAR: 2.5
Hit in 2.26

[ToddG]

Crow. The other white meat.

Distance: 5yd
Time: 1.5s
Result: miss (over time, struck as target turned so somewhere between 1.51 and 1.60s)
Gun: SACS/Warren 9mm 1911 from 5 Shot SME

Immediately before shooting the drill, a buddy told me he was having trouble fumbling his draw from his new SME. I then proceeded to fumble my draw. Awesome.

I made the same mistake I scolded others for: I picked a PAR that was on the edge of what I thought I would pull off cold. I immediately repeated the drill ten times and only scored 6 hits (all shots fired within PAR). I had originally planned to do 2s, then thought that was wimping out so I decided on 1.8s; then on the drive to the range I thought about first hit times on the FAST and decided 1.6s was still generous enough at 5yd. Then I got to the range and decided 1.5 would be cool.

It would have been. :(

[EricP]

Distance: 7 yards
Par: 2.1s
Result: Miss (high in 1.98s)
Gun: Gen 2 G-19 in Comp-tac Infidel

[aleal45]

Distance: 10yds
Par time: 2sec
Good center (1/2'') low hit: 1.55
Gear: SIG GSR XO .45, Desantis Scorpion IWB under plain t-shirt.

Surprisingly that was my fastest draw/hit of the day.:D

[joshs]

HK P30 LEM/5 Shot SME/polo shirt

Distance: 5 yards
Par: 1.5 seconds
Result: Hit