**NSFW** Two explosions at the Boston Marathon **NSFW**

[TCinVA]

...that seem to be timed for the greatest number of people crossing the finish line. Already reports of multiple dead, more injured.

EDIT - reports of ball bearings being found on scene...

[Kevin B.]

Shit...

[TCinVA]

Pictures are showing up on sites of limbs amputated by the explosions.

Knowing that many false reports of devices will be reported, it seems like there is at least one more legit device in play as of current reports.

[TCinVA]

Now reports of an uncontrolled explosion at the JFK library, and that the library is on fire.

[WDW]

That sucks!!! There's at least one legit pic of an area close to one of the explosions showing the ground painted in blood. You know, at this point I have almost zero desire to be part of a large public crowd such as sporting events, races, concerts, etc. Having been in extremely close proximity to IED's myself, I can say there are few things more terrifying.

A nurse I know & her husband are running that race. I know the odds are slim they were hurt, but I sure hope they're ok!!

[TCinVA]

Multiple traumatic amputations...limbs blown off, massive blood loss.

[WDW]

I have always wondered when the small, random IED's in public places here in the U.S. would begin. I hope this is not the start of a future trend. Nothing would cripple this country faster.

[WDW]

OMG!!! Of course, liberal news (ABC) is already insinuating some "Radical Right Wing Group" "could" be responsible as part of a "Patriot's Day" act of violence. You gotta be f***** me!!! People are dead & mangled & they just can't help but slip their political bull shit in the live report.

[SJC3081]

Ball bearings very Islamic.

[TGS]

Ball bearings very Islamic.

What?

Ball bearings, nails, shards of whatever, rocks, ect backed by some form of explosive are common the world over, and have been for hundreds of years. Our claymores use ball bearings, too. Most certainly not a signature of any Islamic faction.

[Kyle Reese]

Ball bearings very Islamic.

If it is an attack perpetrated by one of these groups, expect it to disappear from the media in short order.

[Shellback]

Twelve dead and suspect in custody... http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/two_explosions_at_boston_marathon_iMR0LCkcwASg0RQf VsH1yI

Explosion at JFK library as well.

[G60]

People who politicize tragedies are the worst people on earth.

Is it too difficult for the media and all the internet explosives experts to say "We have no idea who did it yet."

[lightning fast]

Twelve dead and suspect in custody... http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/two_explosions_at_boston_marathon_iMR0LCkcwASg0RQf VsH1yI

Explosion at JFK library as well.

Library has been reported as not related. http://www.dotnews.com/2013/jfk-library-official-fire-not-related-marathon-attack

[YVK]

JFK event is reported to be a fire from a mechanical room unrelated to the marathon.

Boston press reports two dead, NYC press twelve. MassGen opened all ORs for trauma, and Tufts Medical is on lockdown.

All LE is on full counter-terror stance. Every piece of garbage is now treated as a bomb. There is one reported near Harvard MBTA station, which my son needs to walk by to return to his dorm. I texted him to stay in classroom until it is all clear.

[G60]

There is one reported near Harvard MBTA station, which my son needs to walk by to return to his dorm. I texted him to stay in classroom until it is all clear.

Hope he's ok and that you were able to get in touch with him. AP reports cell phone service has been shut down in the Boston area to prevent any remote detonations:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-shut-down-boston

[YVK]

So far the texts have gone through both ways, haven't tried to call.

[MEH]

NYPost (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO)(Yeah I know) is reporting a Saudi national is being held at a local hospital.

[ToddG]

The Obama Administration will no doubt soon announce that this was not related to any terrorist organization and as proof they'll show that he was instead one of the people involved in the Benghazi attack ('cuz they weren't no terrorists!).

[jetfire]

The Obama Administration will no doubt soon announce that this was not related to any terrorist organization and as proof they'll show that he was instead one of the people involved in the Benghazi attack ('cuz they weren't no terrorists!).

sickburn.bro

[TCinVA]

1404

Trauma centers in the area are going to be busy...and they're going to need blood.

1405

...I don't think the girl in the blue made it.

[Zhurdan]

Trauma centers in the area are going to be busy...and they're going to need blood.

Dear God.

[Shellback]

Hope he's ok and that you were able to get in touch with him. AP reports cell phone service has been shut down in the Boston area to prevent any remote detonations:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-shut-down-boston

30 minutes ago I spoke to friends and family in Boston with no issues. Text messages are working as well.

[YVK]

Trauma centers in the area are going to be busy...and they're going to need blood.
.

Red Cross announced they had enough for now. Usually hospitals make public announcements if they are short.

There are unconfirmed reports of some marathoners continuing to run to MassGen to donate blood. If proved to be true, that would be very hemoconcentrated blood. It would be also above any imaginable megaforce.

[ToddG]

If proved to be true, that would be very hemoconcentrated blood. It would be also above any imaginable megaforce.

It must be your accent, because I didn't understand any of that...

[YVK]

It must be your accent, because I didn't understand any of that...

After extreme exercise such as long distance running the hemoglobin concentration often goes up due to dehydration and loss of water. A complete blood count shows supernormal numbers, and med lingo for this is "hemoconcentration".

[ToddG]

After extreme exercise such as long distance running the hemoglobin concentration often goes up due to dehydration and loss of water. A complete blood count shows supernormal numbers, and med lingo for this is "hemoconcentration".

Thanks!

[Suvorov]

Listening to NPR....

The sheep bleat out, "it makes no sense to bomb the Boston Marathon"?

Well Mrs "Rainbows and Unicorns", did it make sense to bomb the twin towers? Beslan? Oklahoma City?

It really amazes me that these people think that the kind of person who perpetuates such an attack is playing by their set of rules.

[TCinVA]

Palestinians have been suicide bombing Israeli school buses for years and NPR has reported it. Not sure why they'd fail to understand the point of bombing a marathon.

Terrorist checklist:

- Innocent people present? Yes/No

If yes, bomb immediately.

[Nik the Greek]

Listening to NPR....

The sheep bleat out, "it makes no sense to bomb the Boston Marathon"?

Well Mrs "Rainbows and Unicorns", did it make sense to bomb the twin towers? Beslan? Oklahoma City?

It really amazes me that these people think that the kind of person who perpetuates such an attack is playing by their set of rules.

I believe that's in reference to the clarity of a potential political statement made via the attack. This is a new thing for the US; a bombing attack without obvious political overtones seemingly designed only to sow fear and chaos.

It's truly tragic any way you slice it.

[Suvorov]

Palestinians have been suicide bombing Israeli school buses for years and NPR has reported it. Not sure why they'd fail to understand the point of bombing a marathon.

Terrorist checklist:

- Innocent people present? Yes/No

If yes, bomb immediately.

Not the NPR reporter but an eye witness marathon participant.

[ToddG]

This is a new thing for the US; a bombing attack without obvious political overtones seemingly designed only to sow fear and chaos.

Like when the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993?
Or suicide bombed in 2001?

I sincerely doubt this attack had any less (or more) "political overtones" than those.

[TCinVA]

Like when the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993?
Or suicide bombed in 2001?

I sincerely doubt this attack had any less (or more) "political overtones" than those.

As people jump yet again to the Angry White Guy theory, it's worth remembering that the FBI has intercepted several attempts at franchise jihad in the last several years...and that AQ's footprint shrank after 9/11 from well-coordinated attacks with multiple actors down to single individuals looking for an opportunity to commit jihad. Like the Fort Hood shooter, or the attempt to bomb the Christmas Tree lighting event or the attempt on the theater district in NYC.

[JV_]

the Fort Hood shooterYou can't count that one, it was categorized as "workplace violence", not terrorism.

[TCinVA]

You can't count that one, it was categorized as "workplace violence", not terrorism.

I know that's the party line, but when the Fort Hood shooter was in contact with somebody that we greased with a drone strike in Yemen for being in AQ leadership and had been on record in front of his colleagues praising jihad I have a hard time buying it as anything other than terrorism.

[Corvus]

Our claymores use ball bearings, too. Most certainly not a signature of any Islamic faction.

I am no expert on the subject of claymores and may have the wrong information but I have read ( early 90s ) and been told by friends in the military that claymores have used cubes instead of ball shapes for a long time. Cubes have 8 sharp corners and do more damage than ball shapes.

Ball bearings are easy to get which does make them a choice of Islamic bomb makers as well as others.

[Archimagirus]

I am no expert on the subject of claymores and may have the wrong information but I have read ( early 90s ) and been told by friends in the military that claymores have used cubes instead of ball shapes for a long time. Cubes have 8 sharp corners and do more damage than ball shapes.

Ball bearings are easy to get which does make them a choice of Islamic bomb makers as well as others.

According to Wikipedia (I know, I know) only the original M18 had cubes instead of ball bearings. The m18a1 has round projectiles.

[Nik the Greek]

Like when the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993?
Or suicide bombed in 2001?

I sincerely doubt this attack had any less (or more) "political overtones" than those.

Just speaking in terms of domestic threats, the very fact that they are WTCs makes them "useful" targets for N.W.O. conspiracy theorists, anarchists, anti-globalists, etc. At the very least, it's easier to grasp what the nature of the statement might be.

In an attack like this, it's much less clear. Quite the opposite; usually these events attract participants from all over the world.

[ToddG]

Just speaking in terms of domestic threats, the very fact that they are WTCs makes them "useful" targets for N.W.O. conspiracy theorists, anarchists, anti-globalists, etc. At the very least, it's easier to grasp what the nature of the statement might be.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't agree with the posit above. The WTC attacks may have been a bigger statement because they were bigger attacks but in the end they're just like the Boston bombing: an attempt to terrorize people and make them feel unsafe at home. If it turns out the Boston bomber does have ties to an Islamic terror group then even the motivation behind the attacks will be pretty much the same.


In an attack like this, it's much less clear. Quite the opposite; usually these events attract participants from all over the world.

I'm willing to bet more foreign nationals were killed in the WTC attack than were injured or even witnessed the Boston bombing.

[Sparks2112]

On a side note, one of the mods may want to put a Graphic or nsfw warning in the title. I was, surprised, when I ran across the photos of the aftermath. My 4 year old was sitting in my lap at the time playing with one of his cars while I was browsing the forum as I often do before putting him to bed. If he'd have happened to be paying attention I'd have had to had the "some people don't like us" conversation a little younger than I was planning to.

Back on topic, I'm sick of the world we live in.

[JV_]

nsfw warning in the title.
Done.

[dbateman]

Man that's bad.


Prayers sent for all involved.

[VolGrad]

I've seen some nasty stuff but that first pic of the guy in the wheelie is perhaps the most disturbing pic I've ever seen.

[justintime]

I've seen some nasty stuff but that first pic of the guy in the wheelie is perhaps the most disturbing pic I've ever seen.

must be one tough dude as he looks fairly calm.

[Sparks2112]

must be one tough dude as he looks fairly calm.

Shock. I came across a motorcycle accident once where a gentleman's arm had become detached. He very calmly asked me to retrieve his wedding ring from his detached appendage because he "didn't want his wife to get mad at him for losing the ring."

[cutter]

Shock. I came across a motorcycle accident once where a gentleman's arm had become detached. He very calmly asked me to retrieve his wedding ring from his detached appendage because he "didn't want his wife to get mad at him for losing the ring."

Yep. Had a biker with heel in his armpit and six inches of his femur exposed ask how is bike was. Didn't blink when we unwound everything and put the traction splint on.

[TCinVA]

Seems that the tourniquet, which has done so much good work overseas, is going to have to become a standard piece of equipment in first aid kits from here on out.

From what I gather, this kind of limb-wrending trauma isn't terribly common in the states, thankfully...and I've chatted with several EMS folks who have no tourniquets in their usual assortment of supplies.

[TGS]

I am no expert on the subject of claymores and may have the wrong information but I have read ( early 90s ) and been told by friends in the military that claymores have used cubes instead of ball shapes for a long time. Cubes have 8 sharp corners and do more damage than ball shapes.

Ball bearings are easy to get which does make them a choice of Islamic bomb makers as well as others.


According to Wikipedia (I know, I know) only the original M18 had cubes instead of ball bearings. The m18a1 has round projectiles.

Yes to Codisimo. The effect on target I've seen from our claymores is most certainly from little round balls, not cubes.

[SecondsCount]

Seems that the tourniquet, which has done so much good work overseas, is going to have to become a standard piece of equipment in first aid kits from here on out.

From what I gather, this kind of limb-wrending trauma isn't terribly common in the states, thankfully...and I've chatted with several EMS folks who have no tourniquets in their usual assortment of supplies.

You do have to be careful with how you use a tourniquet but today's incident was a perfect scenario for one.

[TGS]

Seems that the tourniquet, which has done so much good work overseas, is going to have to become a standard piece of equipment in first aid kits from here on out.

From what I gather, this kind of limb-wrending trauma isn't terribly common in the states, thankfully...and I've chatted with several EMS folks who have no tourniquets in their usual assortment of supplies.

It was only 2009 that NJ put it in our protocols. We use SOFTs at work. I know some other agencies in the area use CATs. Of course, when you run out, we have a ton of triangular bandages which can be used as tourniquets.

I would be lying if I said we didn't have some extra SOFTs at a major sporting event I just worked this evening. No specific threat, but just in case.......fortunately, the most we had to deal with was a spectator who ducked the wrong way when a baseball went astray.

[Tamara]

As people jump yet again to the Angry White Guy theory, it's worth remembering that the FBI has intercepted several attempts at franchise jihad in the last several years...

If I'm being asked to make a bet?

Patriots' Day? Tax Day? Boston? I'm not plunking my fiver down on the square marked with the crescent moon.

[TCinVA]

If I'm being asked to make a bet?

Patriots' Day? Tax Day? Boston? I'm not plunking my fiver down on the square marked with the crescent moon.

The MO seems, at least so far, to be right out of the AQ playbook. Lots of similar attacks have taken place overseas. The patriot's day/tax day thing may have no relevance. The Boston Marathon is one of the best known in the globe, drawing competitors from around the world.

Could be wrong, of course...but seeing as how we've spent the last 10+ years fighting radical islamic terrorism around the globe and the number of attempts that AQ or AQ affiliated persons have made at perpetrating a mass-casualty event at various public venues in the states, and the MO matching a very successful pattern in other parts of the globe where they have no tea parties, I'm going to lean towards calling the hoofbeats as horses instead of zebras.

[Tamara]

The MO seems, at least so far, to be right out of the AQ playbook. Lots of similar attacks have taken place overseas. The patriot's day/tax day thing may have no relevance. The Boston Marathon is one of the best known in the globe, drawing competitors from around the world.

Could be wrong, of course...but seeing as how we've spent the last 10+ years fighting radical islamic terrorism around the globe and the number of attempts that AQ or AQ affiliated persons have made at perpetrating a mass-casualty event at various public venues in the states, and the MO matching a very successful pattern in other parts of the globe where they have no tea parties, I'm going to lean towards calling the hoofbeats as horses instead of zebras.

The Olympics drew people from all over the world to Atlanta, too, where they got bombed by Eric ibn Al-Rudolph. (Who also bombed a 'bortion clinic and a bar that a lot of friends of mine happened to work or hang out at, but folks forget that...)

Look, I'm not saying it couldn't have been the Ay-rabs, I'm just saying which way I'd bet. Hang out on some of the militia-ier websites and blogs; people can't talk like that indefinitely without the shorter-fused popping off and doing something.

[TGS]

The Olympics drew people from all over the world to Atlanta, too, where they got bombed by Eric ibn Al-Rudolph. (Who also bombed a 'bortion clinic and a bar that a lot of friends of mine happened to work or hang out at, but folks forget that...)

Look, I'm not saying it couldn't have been the Ay-rabs, I'm just saying which way I'd bet. Hang out on some of the militia-ier websites and blogs; people can't talk like that indefinitely without the shorter-fused popping off and doing something.

If it was a militia-ier blogger, then why would they bomb a marathon vice an object of their hatred they feel is ruining America, like an abortion clinic, political rally, Remington's headquarters, deportation bus, or a government building ect?

Crazy dude? Sure, I'll buy that. Terrorist? Sure, but not a militia type domestic dude concerned about the downfall of The Republic.

[Tamara]

If it was a militia-ier blogger, then why would they bomb a marathon vice an object of their hatred they feel is ruining America, like an abortion clinic, political rally, Remington's headquarters, deportation bus, or a government building ect?

Crazy dude? Sure, I'll buy that. Terrorist? Sure, but not a militia type domestic dude concerned about the downfall of The Republic.

I don't mean a good God-fearin' Bircher, but get enough people standing around fantasizing violence, and you're bound to get kooks on the fringes. Or as my roommate phrased it when I called her on the phone as the news broke "I sure hope this wasn't someone who thinks they're on my side."

There are folks out there to whom just being a resident of, say, Boston or New Joisey makes you a commie threat to their 'Murrican way of life. If you own a Prius and voted for "Obummer" they hate you as much as they hate any Ay-rab. Maybe more.

(And again, I'm not saying this is any kind of working hypothesis: I'm not in charge of any investigation, this is just my initial hunch. Like I said, that's the square on which I'd put my fiver, that's all. It wouldn't shock me to find out I was wrong.)

[NickA]

If it was a militia-ier blogger, then why would they bomb a marathon vice an object of their hatred they feel is ruining America, like an abortion clinic, political rally, Remington's headquarters, deportation bus, or a government building ect?

Crazy dude? Sure, I'll buy that. Terrorist? Sure, but not a militia type domestic dude concerned about the downfall of The Republic.

A local terrorism expert made kind of the same point in an interview I heard yesterday. He felt this attack was most likely done by radical Islamists because :
Right wing extremists tend to strike at government buildings or officials.
Left wingers go for business interests, "evil capitalism" and all that.
Jihadis hit crowds of civilians.
Not saying he's absolutely right but it's an interesting point.

[Tamara]

A local terrorism expert made kind of the same point in an interview I heard yesterday. He felt this attack was most likely done by radical Islamists because :
Right wing extremists tend to strike at government buildings or officials.
Left wingers go for business interests, "evil capitalism" and all that.
Jihadis hit crowds of civilians.
Not saying he's absolutely right but it's an interesting point.

Centennial Park.

(Edit: Fortgot to mention that Sun/Mon was Sic Semper Tyrannis weekend, too. Also, I see that nobody had yet mentioned that Boston is crawling with Americans of Irish descent...)

[JHC]

NYC Police Comm Ray Kelly lays claim to 16 bombing plots discovered and disrupted. All Islamist terror motivated. Just sayin'.

[Tamara]

NYC Police Comm Ray Kelly lays claim to 16 bombing plots discovered and disrupted. All Islamist terror motivated. Just sayin'.

Just sayin' what? That this was in NYC? That nobody but the Moose Limbs has ever bombed anythin'? And "Kelly"? Isn't that an Irish name? Where was he on Monday?

[Tamara]

Ball bearings very Islamic.

Chief of emergency medicine at Brigham & Women's continues to say they haven't pulled any ball bearings out of anybody. Lots of fragments of "common things you'd find on a street" but no "weaponized" "shrapnel".

This isn't stopping the talking heads on Today from yammering on about ball bearings and BBs, though.

Until I hear different, I'm listening to the guy in charge of fixing the boo-boos.

[TGS]

You kinda lost me, Tam. You're going to have to dial down the Tamification a bit, the last few posts were a little too whimsical/pun/innuendo/whatever-heavy for me to understand. :)

[Tamara]

You kinda lost me, Tam. You're going to have to dial down the Tamification a bit, the last few posts were a little too whimsical/pun/innuendo/whatever-heavy for me to understand. :)

The others may have been whimsical, but I think the repeated statements by the head of the ER that they haven't pulled any BBs out of anybody are pretty straightforward. The only place any ball bearings have been proven to exist thus far are in the heads of reporters.

Dr. Ron Walls, chair of emergency medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital, said doctors did not identify any shrapnel, such as ball bearings, but saw a lot of "street stuff" that had injured their patients.

"Rocks, bits of metal, soda cans, anything that is really close to a blast like that can be fragmented," he said. "Everything we saw was ordinary material that could have been propelled by the device." (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/u-s-world/8-year-old-died-at-boston-marathon-waiting-to-greet-father)

(As far as my repeated [and joking, I might add] references to the Irish: Those much over the age of twenty or so should be able to remember when Arabs weren't the automatic suspect every time something blew up outside of Beirut or Tel Aviv.)

[Shellback]

(As far as my repeated [and joking, I might add] references to the Irish: Those much over the age of twenty or so should be able to remember when Arabs weren't the automatic suspect every time something blew up outside of Beirut or Tel Aviv.)

Story of my life... ;) And then you have people like this guy.

''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Bill-Ayers-1.jpg

[bdcheung]

I share this link not to glamorize the pain, but to highlight the heroism and selflessness of first responders and bystanders who overcame shock and fear to assist the needy.

THIS LINK CONTAINS EXTREMELY GRAPHIC IMAGES.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/first-photos-from-the-scene-of-the-boston-marathon-explosion
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=072_1366065507

The hero you see wearing the cowboy hat is Carlos Arredondo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Arredondo). He had lost one son in Iraq, and his other son took is own life following the death of his brother. Carlos became a peace activist and began volunteering with the American Red Cross after the death of his sons.

[NickA]

Chief of emergency medicine at Brigham & Women's continues to say they haven't pulled any ball bearings out of anybody. Lots of fragments of "common things you'd find on a street" but no "weaponized" "shrapnel".

This isn't stopping the talking heads on Today from yammering on about ball bearings and BBs, though.

Until I hear different, I'm listening to the guy in charge of fixing the boo-boos.

To your point, one of the bullet points on CNN's home page says "Doctors remove nails, pellets from victims", but the linked article says nothing of the sort, only two different doctors saying that there were no ball bearings or anything that you wouldn't expect to find from the location.
Reporting at it's finest:(

[JHC]

The hero you see wearing the cowboy hat is Carlos Arredondo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Arredondo). He had lost one son in Iraq, and his other son took is own life following the death of his brother. Carlos became a peace activist and began volunteering with the American Red Cross after the death of his sons.

Carlos has bourne more than his share of pain that's for sure. Considering his story I'm sure he's had occassion to really wonder why the hell he was still on this Earth. Wow.

[Chuck Haggard]

According to Wikipedia (I know, I know) only the original M18 had cubes instead of ball bearings. The m18a1 has round projectiles.

The recovered projectiles I have seen at the range after shooting for-real Claymores look exactly like plain vanilla BBs to me. This would make complete sense to me since BBs are dirt cheap and easy to buy.

Launched by for-real explosives like C4 a BB has a shocking level of penetration at close range.


Back to your normal programming.

[TGS]

I share this link not to glamorize the pain, but to highlight the heroism and selflessness of first responders and bystanders who overcame shock and fear to assist the needy.

Something to consider is the amount of help that was required by bystanders.

Todd mentioned in a blog post a bit ago that with the ammo drought, it's a great time to beef up on other skills. Knowing how the triage system works instead of running around like an idiot and getting in peoples' way is probably a good thing. You might think you're doing good by just grabbing up an injured person and running them to an ambulance, but realize by doing so you could have just cost 3 other saveable patients their life, by forcing a patient on the medical system who was likely to die anyway. To know what to do, you don't need to be Doogie Howser, or even an EMT.

Once upon a time, a nation of riflemen is all that was needed to be resilient. Given the contemporary threats, perhaps a nation of trained first-responders is something we should try to embrace as well in order to become resilient against our enemies. It's probably just as, if not more important than our .18 splits and sub-7 sec FAST, so think about that when pondering over how convicted you actually are over your responsibilities to your family and community.

A start would be to check out the Red Cross or American Heart Association's websites, and find a CPR, AED and first aid/basic life support course in your area. Then maybe see if they can get you some training on the START triage system. If you can, it might not hurt to find a Certified First Responder/Emergency Medical Responder course, which will be 60-80 hours of training and definitely include such. Or, maybe your EMS/Fire/Rescue has some 1 or 2 day community classes for learning/practicing triage. Perhaps your county has a decent CERT program you can become a part of. Point being, there's tons of access to this stuff and it doesn't take more than a few clicks on the keyboard to get signed up, and you can be involved and get trained with minimal commitments.

[Chuck Haggard]

Good post TGS.


I'll add that the wheelchair/your legs off picture is why I carry a CAT in one of my pockets at work, and have a ton of med stuff in my active-shooter bag along with the ammo.

[Tamara]

To your point, one of the bullet points on CNN's home page says "Doctors remove nails, pellets from victims", but the linked article says nothing of the sort, only two different doctors saying that there were no ball bearings or anything that you wouldn't expect to find from the location.
Reporting at it's finest:(

Just now saw a doc with a Strangeloveian accent saying "Ve haff removed pellets and nails...", but the guy from B&W has repeated the "no shrapnel" thing. This is typical of the confused stuff that surrounds these things.

You'd never guess it from the confident pronouncements being made on TV by all the people who know all the facts already. :D

[Tamara]

Todd mentioned in a blog post a bit ago that with the ammo drought, it's a great time to beef up on other skills. Knowing how the triage system works instead of running around like an idiot and getting in peoples' way is probably a good thing. You might think you're doing good by just grabbing up an injured person and running them to an ambulance, but realize by doing so you could have just cost 3 other saveable patients their life, by forcing a patient on the medical system who was likely to die anyway. To know what to do, you don't need to be Doogie Howser, or even an EMT.

This was worth repeating.

I will be looking into your suggestions.

[Chuck Haggard]

How many ER docs have any idea what they are looking at when it comes to plain vanilla bullets recovered during surgery? In my experience, damn few. Now you throw in bomb stuff...

Just sayin.

[Chuck Haggard]

This was worth repeating.

I will be looking into your suggestions.

There were several kick ass med classes as part of the tactical conference in Memphis this past year. Getting easier to find if one looks for such.

[Shellback]

Typical media back and forth. (http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/blogs/white-coat-notes/2013/04/16/boston-doctors-ball-bearings-nails-removed-from-patients-from-the-marathon/gkOVFyGMR5Rxeu2r7Dl43I/blog.html)

Each doctor who has spoken before TV cameras and reporters this morning has described similar things: Pellets, small BBs, headless nails—projectiles they believe were packed with the bombs, removed from some patients by the dozens.

“My opinion is that most of them were in the bomb,” said Dr. George Velmahos, trauma chief at Massachusetts General Hospital. “I think it’s unlikely they would be so consistent if they were pulled out from the environment.”

Dr. Ron Walls, an emergency physician from Brigham and Woman’s Hospital, gave a similar description of the items found, saying that nails or small ball bearings were removed from several patients. The items “clearly were designed to be projectiles that were built into the device.”

At Boston Medical Center, Dr. Andrew Ulrich said the shrapnel “could be described as buckshot.”

[David Armstrong]

On a side note, one of the mods may want to put a Graphic or nsfw warning in the title. I was, surprised, when I ran across the photos of the aftermath. My 4 year old was sitting in my lap at the time playing with one of his cars while I was browsing the forum as I often do before putting him to bed. If he'd have happened to be paying attention I'd have had to had the "some people don't like us" conversation a little younger than I was planning to.

Back on topic, I'm sick of the world we live in.
FWIW, this kind of stuff (and much worse) has been going on in assorted places around the world since before I was born. We in the U.S. have been fairly lucky in that our problems have been relatively few and far between in-country when compared to some. Doesn't make it any better, of course, but others have gotten through this and we will too.

[texasaggie2005]

Pressure cookers? (http://goo.gl/O7MWh)

[Suvorov]

Something tells me that this whole thing was accomplished by the same sort of person that shoots up a school, a mall, or a movie theater, to get back as society for whatever slight they have suffered and to get their 2 weeks of fame. With each side of the aisle trying to gain political traction, I have yet to see this idea be advanced. No real political motive just the desire to exact revenge on society for whatever slights, real or imagined, they have suffered in the past. If this was done by followers of the "religion of peace," then they must have been the C team acting alone as no self respecting jihadist would make so amateurish an IED as to only kill 3 in such a crowd. Centennial park not withstanding, a right wing nutjob would much rather strike out at the .gov that they believe is so oppressing or the FED, and a left wing nutjob has no reason to do anything now that they have one of their own in power. ;)

[David Armstrong]

The others may have been whimsical, but I think the repeated statements by the head of the ER that they haven't pulled any BBs out of anybody are pretty straightforward. The only place any ball bearings have been proven to exist thus far are in the heads of reporters.


(As far as my repeated [and joking, I might add] references to the Irish: Those much over the age of twenty or so should be able to remember when Arabs weren't the automatic suspect every time something blew up outside of Beirut or Tel Aviv.)
Heck, I remember when something blew up here the assumption was some upper-middle class white college kids.

[David Armstrong]

There were several kick ass med classes as part of the tactical conference in Memphis this past year. Getting easier to find if one looks for such.
As a FWIW, a number of places will give you free training as an EMT in exchange for a committment to serve for a time period after graduation.

[bdcheung]

Pressure cookers? (http://goo.gl/O7MWh)

...wouldn't that contain some of the blast energy?

[Chuck Haggard]

As a FWIW, a number of places will give you free training as an EMT in exchange for a committment to serve for a time period after graduation.

Not even talking EMT level Dave, what most people need is a basic first aid and CPR class with TCCC thrown in to cover things like gunshot wounds, etc. Combat Lifesaver in the Army is an example of some of what I'm talking about.


I had to get a chunk of hot dog out of a toddler's throat a couple of years ago, mom and dad were sitting there staring at the kid and watching him die. A basic Red Cross class would have covered that emergency.

In this case knowing how to throw on a TQ and how to stop bleeding would have been invaluable to the victims, and maybe one's self.

[Odin Bravo One]

...wouldn't that contain some of the blast energy?

Not with a properly built device.

[TGS]

Not even talking EMT level Dave, what most people need is a basic first aid and CPR class with TCCC thrown in to cover things like gunshot wounds, etc. Combat Lifesaver in the Army is an example of some of what I'm talking about.

An EMT course (250 hours here in NJ) and serving as a volunteer EMT is also more commitment than a lot of people are either willing or able to make.

As an EMT, I'll be the first to say that an EMT course has a lot of stuff in it that isn't relevant to a bystander in any situation. A significant portion of the course is packaging patients, which although is good to know it isn't of terrible importance to a bystander since we're going to package the patient ourselves. A lot of the course is using EMS specific devices, as well, which a bystander has about zero use for. You don't need to learn how to use a stair chair, a traction splint, PASG, or CPAP to be useful in a mass casualty incident. You also don't need to know how to auscultate and determine whether the patient has asthma or CHF related lung sounds. You don't need to learn how to apply restraints on psych patients or take a blood-pressure, either.

To that point, there's a reason the Certified First Responder/Emergency Medical Responder course exists. ;)

[peterb]

As an EMT, I'll be the first to say that an EMT course has a lot of stuff in it that isn't relevant to a bystander in any situation.

Also consider Wilderness First Aid or Wilderness First Responder if you like doing outdoor stuff. The emphasis tends to be more on improvisation and longer-term care than standard classes, which usually assume that professional will be arriving soon.

There's a lot you can do with just (gloved) hands, knowledge, the ability to keep calm, and the willingness to try.

[Corlissimo]

An EMT course (250 hours here in NJ) and serving as a volunteer EMT is also more commitment than a lot of people are either willing or able to make.

As an EMT, I'll be the first to say that an EMT course has a lot of stuff in it that isn't relevant to a bystander in any situation. A significant portion of the course is packaging patients, which although is good to know it isn't of terrible importance to a bystander since we're going to package the patient ourselves. A lot of the course is using EMS specific devices, as well, which a bystander has about zero use for. You don't need to learn how to use a stair chair, a traction splint, PASG, or CPAP to be useful in a mass casualty incident. You also don't need to know how to auscultate and determine whether the patient has asthma or CHF related lung sounds. You don't need to learn how to apply restraints on psych patients or take a blood-pressure, either.

To that point, there's a reason the Certified First Responder/Emergency Medical Responder course exists. ;)

So, could the Certified First Responder/Emergency Medical Responder type course be likened somewhat to a Combat Lifesaver course for civvies?

[TR675]

...wouldn't that contain some of the blast energy?

Improperly designed or constructed pressure cookers can explode and maim or kill people. They are essentially bomb casings you can cook in.

[ToddG]

So, could the Certified First Responder/Emergency Medical Responder type course be likened somewhat to a Combat Lifesaver course for civvies?

I've never taken a Combat Lifesaver course but I did go through Red Cross First Responder training when I started being responsible for people on the firing line as part of my everyday job.

The course I took dealt very little with penetrating trauma. It specifically advised against wound packing, clotting agents like Combat Gauze, and tourniquets. In fact we were told that putting a tourniquet on a limb was the same as cutting the limb off.

The class did spend about half a day on mass casualty issues.

[NickA]

A really good post by none other than Constable Bob, Patton Oswalt :
http://m.facebook.com/pattonoswalt?id=10671482654&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fm.nydailynews.com%2F1.1317945&_rdr#!/story.php?story_fbid=10151440800582655&id=10671482654&refid=17

<copyrighted material deleted ... ToddG>

[TGS]

So, could the Certified First Responder/Emergency Medical Responder type course be likened somewhat to a Combat Lifesaver course for civvies?

Yup! It's meant to fill in the gap between someone with a band-aid and EMS with an ambulance.

I took it a long time ago, so some things may have changed. It'll teach the patient assessment process, which is basically just a system of steps and mnemonics to keep your head straight and on track to make sure you don't miss anything and don't get distracted by a single issue. It'll also teach triage and some basic packaging stuff for trauma patients, as well as first aid (occlusive dressings for sucking chest wounds, bandages, slings, splints, ect). When I took it, we were advised against tourniquets as they were taboo in that day, but we were still taught them for use on amputated limbs.

To put it into context, I think the target audience for the CFR/EMR course tend to be ski patrol, park guides, lifeguards, CERT, firefighters not on a medic rig, ect.

When I took it, the course met once a night per week for a couple months. It's not terribly involved or difficult, and you also shouldn't expect to feel like Gregory House afterwards......the content is fairly simple, it's the prac app which helps people sort out their mistakes/decision making process.

[ToddG]

While you guys sit here arguing about whether there were any ball bearings or not, the Brady Campaign is working hard to clear up the chaos:


Our heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to the victims of yesterday's Boston Marathon attack. For those of us who have personally experienced gun violence, the feelings of frustration, anger, bewilderment and sorrow caused by this tragedy are all too familiar.

Gun violence?

[Odin Bravo One]

I've never taken a Combat Lifesaver course but I did go through Red Cross First Responder training when I started being responsible for people on the firing line as part of my everyday job.

The course I took dealt very little with penetrating trauma. It specifically advised against wound packing, clotting agents like Combat Gauze, and tourniquets. In fact we were told that putting a tourniquet on a limb was the same as cutting the limb off.

The class did spend about half a day on mass casualty issues.

There is a distinct difference in mentality when it comes to Red Cross vs. TCCC.

However, without at least a basic intro to the ABC's, TCCC would be over many people's head, and move too fast to be of any real value. Just like firearms training, we need to start at the basics, and build from there. Where having a working understanding of both comes in handy is when you can identify what is life threatening, and what is just ugly. Most patients will survive ugly if it is not life threatening. And there is a lot that is life threatening that doesn't look all that bad. I won't pack, tourni, or use a clotting agent on anything not life threatening...........Red Cross First Responder comes in handy for those scenarios.

TCCC.........very good for when advanced trauma care is 20 minutes away, and your patient is 120 seconds away from bleeding out. Also really good to learn what actually matters, and what just looks bad.

[STS]

If you don't know how to

[STS]

Damn iPhone. I meant to say everyone needs to be up on their skills when it comes to treating massive trauma. I'd say with proper treatment the guy who lost both legs could survive. But time is life. And he doesn't have much time. Tourniquets and rapid transport is all that will save him.

[Chuck Haggard]

In fact we were told that putting a tourniquet on a limb was the same as cutting the limb off.


That bullshit is like vampire herpes, it won't die and when you think you got rid of it it just pops right back up again.


Seriously, anyone teaching such needs a punch in the throat.


I will add when I had to have my shin splints cut, on both legs, they had a TQ on me for like an hour during surgery. Guess what? I have both legs still and they work better now that before the surgery.

Even if the TQ means they lose the limb, it also means they don't die on the spot from a squirting artery. I'll deal with the limb loss if that's what it takes.

[JHC]

Geneology of bomb design. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/16/breaking-details-ap-says-explosives-used-in-bombings-contained-in-6-liter-pressure-cookers-and-placed-in-duffel-bags/

Similiar.

[TGS]

That article tries really hard to associate "pressure cooker bomb" with "Muslim extremist."

What it doesn't mention is that it's in no way shape or form an identifying signature of Muslim extremists. You can find pressure cooker bombs outlined in the Anarchist's Cookbook, too. Trying to place this on Muslim extremist just because they've used pressure cookers before is like trying to place the Sandy Hook shootings on Al-Qaeda, because hey, AQ has shot people with guns.

[BaiHu]

While you guys sit here arguing about whether there were any ball bearings or not, the Brady Campaign is working hard to clear up the chaos:



Gun violence?

Gun violence=use of a projectile
Bomb=use of a projectile

Duh, that't the Brady way :rolleyes:

[Shellback]

Saudi dude... (http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/15/perfect-day-turns-evil/W7KQHq1NWFqukte3VQ14DJ/story.html)

Then there was the story about the young Saudi guy who was being questioned by the FBI. Now, the FBI wouldn’t tell me if my pants were on fire, but my old pal John Miller from CBS News reported that the kid did a runner after the explosion and that somebody tackled him and held him for the police. Miller used to be an associate director at the FBI, and let’s just say his sources there are impeccable. Miller says the Saudi guy was cooperative and denied he had anything to do with the bombing. He says he took off because, like everybody else in the Back Bay, he was terrified. A law enforcement source later told me that Miller’s story is right on the money.

[cclaxton]

That article tries really hard to associate "pressure cooker bomb" with "Muslim extremist." What it doesn't mention is that it's in no way shape or form an identifying signature of Muslim extremists. You can find pressure cooker bombs outlined in the Anarchist's Cookbook, too. Trying to place this on Muslim extremist just because they've used pressure cookers before is like trying to place the Sandy Hook shootings on Al-Qaeda, because hey, AQ has shot people with guns.

If you are in any kind of amateur business, you do what is familiar and what you know how to make, and what works. While pressure cooker bomb does not equal Taliban extremist, it does point in the direction of those who have used them before. But the evidence will lead them to the right people.

I am betting it was Waco-OkCity sympathizers because of April 19, but that is just a guess.
CC

[Suvorov]

So what all this means, is if I'm planning on buying my wife a new pressure cooker for her birthday, I better get it now before the Brady Campaign gets involved and there is a run on them? :confused:

[Tamara]

I am betting it was Waco-OkCity sympathizers because of April 19, but that is just a guess.
CC

What, the fuse was four days too short?

[JodyH]

I am betting it was Waco-OkCity sympathizers because of April 19, but that is just a guess.
CC
I'd take that bet.
If it was BATFE convention or an abortion clinic that was bombed then I would agree it's a right leaning domestic terrorist.
If it was the Koch brothers corporate HQ, or Goldman-Sachs then I'd lean toward leftist domestic terrorists.
With it being a group of random Americans attending a high profile sporting event... that screams radical Islamic terrorist to me.

[Suvorov]

I love me a spicy green chile as much or more than the next guy. That said, I really have to wonder if our right to enjoy tasty stews prepared quickly is greater than the right of others to run a marathon without getting blown up.

I think DiFi should write a law to ban pressure cookers or at least limit their size. Nobody truly needs one.

[David Armstrong]

Not even talking EMT level Dave, what most people need is a basic first aid and CPR class with TCCC thrown in to cover things like gunshot wounds, etc. Combat Lifesaver in the Army is an example of some of what I'm talking about.


I had to get a chunk of hot dog out of a toddler's throat a couple of years ago, mom and dad were sitting there staring at the kid and watching him die. A basic Red Cross class would have covered that emergency.

In this case knowing how to throw on a TQ and how to stop bleeding would have been invaluable to the victims, and maybe one's self.
I'm aware of that and agree with you. In fact I made that a condition of my daughter getting a car..she had to first take and pass the Red Cross Basic First Aid class and get her CPR card. I tossed it out because lots of folks are not aware of the fact they can get a fairly high level of skill in this area at little cost other than the personal time investment. As an additional benefit, you can get a job skill that is in high demand, land a nice part-time job, and often get in to watch the football game for free!:D

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm aware of that and agree with you. In fact I made that a condition of my daughter getting a car..she had to first take and pass the Red Cross Basic First Aid class and get her CPR card. I tossed it out because lots of folks are not aware of the fact they can get a fairly high level of skill in this area at little cost other than the personal time investment. As an additional benefit, you can get a job skill that is in high demand, land a nice part-time job, and often get in to watch the football game for free!:D

Roger, good copy.

[JHC]

That article tries really hard to associate "pressure cooker bomb" with "Muslim extremist."

What it doesn't mention is that it's in no way shape or form an identifying signature of Muslim extremists. You can find pressure cooker bombs outlined in the Anarchist's Cookbook, too. Trying to place this on Muslim extremist just because they've used pressure cookers before is like trying to place the Sandy Hook shootings on Al-Qaeda, because hey, AQ has shot people with guns.

More history. It's pretty balanced as you'll see. Nobody's saying certainty. http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/16/a-short-history-of-pressure-cooker-bombs/#ixzz2QfODJwnF

Islamists use this design more than anybody else because they set off 99% of the bombs. But that doesn't mean they surely did this time. But it's not a bad bet either.

[Tamara]

With it being a group of random Americans attending a high profile sporting event...

Like the Olympics?

[JHC]

Like the Olympics?

One off. Versus thousands of events that fit the pattern Jody described.

[JHC]

But now FoxNews reports that a poisonous substance mailed to MS Senator Wicker's office has been tested positive as ricin.

[hufnagel]

cnn picked it up as well.

[TCinVA]

But now FoxNews reports that a poisonous substance mailed to MS Senator Wicker's office has been tested positive as ricin.

Admittedly I'm not an expert in the manufacture of ricin, but I believe it takes some time. So does the mail.

I doubt that piece of mail was from a copycat who saw the Boston thing and then decided he/she was going to mail some poison. Either it's an unrelated act with unbelievable timing, or it's the same dude(s). I'm going to guess it was unrelated, but who the hell knows at this point.

Reminds me of the anthrax scare that happened right after 9/11.


One off. Versus thousands of events that fit the pattern Jody described.

That's where I'm at. It's not impossible that this was a right or left wing home-grown terrorist angry with the government or corporations or whatnot...but most of the globe has seen a steady flow of these sorts of attacks from Islamic-inspired terrorists. There have been numerous attempts at terrorist attacks on our soil by Islamic-inspired terrorists. We have entire sections of the national security apparatus of the US engaged in a 'round-the-clock effort to locate Islamic terrorists and then hit them with Hellfire missiles. We aren't doing this so that the drone pilots and the folks at NSWG don't get bored.

It's not guaranteed to be Islamic inspired terrorism, but given the track record and the MO it's a perfectly logical possibility. Angry white guy was the explanation at Fort Hood until it turned out to be a guy who palled around with the 9/11 hijackers and a dude that we hit with a drone strike for being an AQ leader who screamed Allah Ackbar before he opened fire. It was an angry white dude who tried to bomb the NYC theater district until it turns out to have been a Pakistani national that trained with the Taliban.

[hufnagel]

has to be unrelated.
doesn't it take like 5 weeks for mail to get through the system to a congresscritter?

[ToddG]

The envelope didn't make it to the Capitol. It was received by the mail facility today. That means it could very easily have been sent from anywhere in the DC area (and probably just about anywhere in OH, PA, WV, DE, NJ, NC, and KY) yesterday after the bombs detonated in Boston.

It could also have been sent by anyone anywhere wanting it to arrive on tax day or any of the other "special days" that were celebrated yesterday. As such, except for a similar taste in timing, it could easily have absolutely nothing to do with the Boston bombings.

Furthermore, according to Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/roger-wicker-letter-ricin-90171.html?hp=t3_3), Senator McCaskill (D-Mo) said the authorities know who sent the letter.

[TCinVA]

Some news outlets are reporting that the Saudi student is now being considered as a suspect.

...and some idiot has been leaking evidence photos of the bomb's leftover bits. :rolleyes:

One of the bits appears to be a chunk of fused-together ball bearings...possibly ball bearings held together with silicone. Something that is apparently quite popular overseas.

1410

...and not to put too fine a point on it, but a pressure cooker was part of the payload of the failed theater district bomb.

Just sayin'.

[JHC]

Some news outlets are reporting that the Saudi student is now being considered as a suspect.

...and some idiot has been leaking evidence photos of the bomb's leftover bits. :rolleyes:

One of the bits appears to be a chunk of fused-together ball bearings.

Yeah idiotic and FoxNews is soooo proud of it. Jeez I cannot stand Shepard Smith.

[Drang]

I am betting it was Waco-OkCity sympathizers because of April 19, but that is just a guess.
CC
If we're going with April 19th (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_19) as the significant date, we may as well make it Or Jews, or anti-Semites. (To avoid Godwining the thread...). Or Englishmen, or Massachusettsites, or whatever the call themselves. Bay Staters?

Move it a couple of days, and you can make it Texans, or Mexicans. Move it back to the actual attack date and get "anti-tax."

But what, exactly, is the association of the Boston Marathon with taxes? Bueller, Bueller?

We tend to try and over-analyze these things. Remember how some thought the target date for the 9/11 attacks was set because of some ludicrous association with "Dial 911"?

And some guy tried to tell me today that "It was those anti-government guys." And everyone stepped back, expecting me to whip out my official Tea Party pitchfork and skewer him.

Which "anti-government guys?" Occupy? Black Block/Anarchists? And, again, what, exactly, is the association with the Boston Marathon?

The best evidence for this having been by Muslim extremists is that attacking a large group of people going about their business, especially for something like a sporting event, is exactly the sort of thing that AQ and it'd fellow travelers have been advocating.
Most domestic terrorists, once the Fed mole has stirred them up to do more than sit around grumbling about The Man, attack something that symbolizes what they're grumbling about. Just not seein' that here.

[TCinVA]

Apparently various forums on the web are combing through pictures trying to identify potential bombers...and folks seem to be eagerly uploading their pictures of the event and posting them on forums.

...crowdsourced terrorism investigation?

[Tamara]

Apparently various forums on the web are combing through pictures trying to identify potential bombers...and folks seem to be eagerly uploading their pictures of the event and posting them on forums.

...crowdsourced terrorism investigation?

I don't think we've scratched the surface of the societal transformations that will be brought about by the ubiquity of cameras, social networking, interlinked databases, and storage too cheap to meter.

[TCinVA]

I don't think we've scratched the surface of the societal transformations that will be brought about by the ubiquity of cameras, social networking, interlinked databases, and storage too cheap to meter.

On the one hand it's amusing, but on the other it's actually got possibilities. Programs have been set up to utilize thousands of consumer level PC's to tackle large processing problems. This could be much the same thing.

Total informational awareness...entirely by accident.

[Sparks2112]

On the one hand it's amusing, but on the other it's actually got possibilities. Programs have been set up to utilize thousands of consumer level PC's to tackle large processing problems. This could be much the same thing.

Total informational awareness...entirely by accident.

The government didn't have to make 1984 happen, we did it ourselves...

[LHS]

I don't think we've scratched the surface of the societal transformations that will be brought about by the ubiquity of cameras, social networking, interlinked databases, and storage too cheap to meter.

Tell that to the SAN guys at my office... I have to fight them for every single GB.

But yes, the Boston PD and FBI are asking for any video or photo files from the event, in the hopes that there's something there. And given how many people had their phones out recording their friends and family cross the finish line, there very well may be some pertinent imagery.

[JHC]

On the one hand it's amusing, but on the other it's actually got possibilities. Programs have been set up to utilize thousands of consumer level PC's to tackle large processing problems. This could be much the same thing.

Total informational awareness...entirely by accident.

It definitely has possibilities. Something similiar debunked CBS/Dan Rather's Oct surprise on Bush. Richard Fernandez on Pajamas Media has an interesting blog post about how the media can no longer completely steer the narrative; social media is playing an increasingly influential role to shape the news.

[hufnagel]

I do love how everyone is being portrayed as skittery and jittery. Remember people, it's what the bad people want. The best thing you can do... Keep Calm, Carry On. (and keep your powder dry.) 12 blocks of downtown Boston are closed still? Now's a great time to try that other resturant you've been looking for an excuse to go to. Don't give in to the panic.

[cclaxton]

I don't think we've scratched the surface of the societal transformations that will be brought about by the ubiquity of cameras, social networking, interlinked databases, and storage too cheap to meter.

It's all evolution...societal evolution, personal evolution, mental evolution, technological evolution. You can't stop evolution....the most powerful force in the universe.
Our future, as individuals and as a society are unknowns, and for some that is fearful. I live for today, and evolution will care for tomorrow...
CC

[JHC]

Apparently various forums on the web are combing through pictures trying to identify potential bombers...and folks seem to be eagerly uploading their pictures of the event and posting them on forums.

...crowdsourced terrorism investigation?

Some of that right here: http://thenewsjunkie.com/4chan-users-post-convincing-evidence-pointing-at-bombing-suspects/

[BaiHu]

Nice tribute to the people of Boston by Stephen Colbert:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farti cle-2310402%2FStephen-Colbert-pays-tribute-Boston-touching-monologue-marathon-bombings.html%3Fito%3Dfeeds-newsxml&ei=sJ1uUejCCIv64AOtloD4Dw&usg=AFQjCNE184tWTG0IbzXsE_1WhPE1JLTQnQ&sig2=fxC9JLW4-h67cH5OG2i6wQ&bvm=bv.45368065,d.dmg

ETA: And Stewart: http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-stewart-boston-marathon-bombings-daily-show-april-17-2013-4

[RoyGBiv]

On the one hand it's amusing, but on the other it's actually got possibilities. Programs have been set up to utilize thousands of consumer level PC's to tackle large processing problems. This could be much the same thing.

Total informational awareness...entirely by accident.
I've participated in SETI Project on/off (currently off) for many years.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/

[TCinVA]

So I've seen lots of speculation on possible suspects...but it's like an internet version of collaborative Where's Waldo at this point. Until some hard information is handed out about the packages that actually contained the explosives, it's rather difficult to actually pinpoint a suspect.

In the interim, about a dozen people are getting the stink-eye from the internet on grounds as solid as "he's wearing an Adidas jacket!"

A bunch of interweb speculation focused on two dudes with black backpacks near the scene...who are obviously LE. 5.11's, earbuds, and a punisher logo cap are pretty obvious.

[JHC]

So I've seen lots of speculation on possible suspects...but it's like an internet version of collaborative Where's Waldo at this point. Until some hard information is handed out about the packages that actually contained the explosives, it's rather difficult to actually pinpoint a suspect.

In the interim, about a dozen people are getting the stink-eye from the internet on grounds as solid as "he's wearing an Adidas jacket!"

LOL - I dunno that one swarthy dude in black jacket; 511 khaki's and desert boots with the black 3 day pack looks pretty sketchy. ;) (not hypothetical; at the link)

[JHC]

Creates a strong new argument for "gray man" attire.

[TCinVA]

Creates a strong new argument for "gray man" attire.

To the average person who isn't paying attention it's probably pretty "gray".

If I wanted to blend in with the crowd I'd be wearing Levi's and a North Face jacket.

...which I wear quite frequently. ;)

[Tamara]

Creates a strong new argument for "gray man" attire.

Gray man kit is definitely sheepdog.

[JHC]

Gray man kit is definitely sheepdog.

ROFL!!! Nice.

[MDS]

The government didn't have to make 1984 happen, we did it ourselves...

And We Saw That It Was Good.

No power is intrinsically evil, and the best way to keep any power from becoming totally corrupted is to make it freely available to everyone. This mechanical turk investigation thing sounds great to me - I can see people taking time off work to help with the photo analysis, especially if there's a reward for useful analytical results. You can't !!FIGHT!! progress...

[bdcheung]

A story about the other half of the photograph that has come to symbolize the inexplicable pain and uplifting humanity found in the wake of Monday's attacks (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/us/in-grisly-image-a-father-sees-his-son.html)

[ToddG]

A bunch of interweb speculation focused on two dudes with black backpacks near the scene...who are obviously LE. 5.11's, earbuds, and a punisher logo cap are pretty obvious.

I know based on previous discussions that you and I both agree that the vast majority of people are oblivious to that kind of thing and don't pick up on the presence of LE dressed that way. Who does see that and assume he's LE? Other law enforcement officers.

If you wanted to go do a very bad thing in a very big crowd being monitored by a very large army of LEOs from a very big number of different agencies, dressing up like one of them is going to make you less suspicious to them than dressing up like the average gawker... especially if you're going to be carrying a big, heavy backpack around.

Not saying he's the guy, just that it's certainly possible that a terrorist could choose that particular type of camouflage.

[BaiHu]

Suspect found and arrest imminent. Awaiting details.

ETA:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/17/fbi-boston-police-say-range-suspects-motives-remains-wide-open/

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[TheLaw]

Arrest made and supposed announcement at 5 pm.

[TCinVA]

Arrest made and supposed announcement at 5 pm.

...and apparently that was a false report.

[bdcheung]

Arrest made and supposed announcement at 5 pm.

Conflicting reports on whether that's true. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/17/boston-marathon-pressure-cooker-bomb/2089963/)

[BaiHu]

Interesting breakdown on what could've happened:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310596/Boston-bombings-latest-Arrest-Boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-brought-court.html

[TGS]

A story about the other half of the photograph that has come to symbolize the inexplicable pain and uplifting humanity found in the wake of Monday's attacks (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/us/in-grisly-image-a-father-sees-his-son.html)

Awesome. Looks like the tourniquet that Arredondo put on Bauman could have been what kept him from loosing 1 too much drop of blood.

[RoyGBiv]

Conflicting reports on whether that's true. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/17/boston-marathon-pressure-cooker-bomb/2089963/)

You don't "Arrest" people you're planning to send to Gitmo.

Oh wait... Eric Holder... Forget it..

[TCinVA]

With developments since I last checked up on the situation, it seems that the possibility of this being some sort of tea-party inspired act seems only slightly more remote than the odds that I'm actually Elton John.

[Kyle Reese]

With developments since I last checked up on the situation, it seems that the possibility of this being some sort of tea-party inspired act seems only slightly more remote than the odds that I'm actually Elton John.

You have much nicer hair than Sir Elton John. Just saying.

[TCinVA]

You have much nicer hair than Sir Elton John. Just saying.

...but, strangely enough, I have actually dressed up like Donald Duck and tried to play the piano. So make of that what you will.

[TCinVA]

...I don't think the girl in the blue made it.

I saw a picture today of the immediate aftermath of the explosion. I had hoped that the poor woman in blue was knocked out by the blast and never felt any fear or pain.

Sadly, she wasn't. There's a series of pictures where you can actually see her screaming from fear and/or pain and then her expression changes and she falls out of shot as the camera's full-auto mode snapped away.

She died in terror.

[JConn]

With developments since I last checked up on the situation, it seems that the possibility of this being some sort of tea-party inspired act seems only slightly more remote than the odds that I'm actually Elton John.

If you look at the photo of the suspects being circulated now, they look to be from a very specific part of the world.

[Kyle Reese]

If you look at the photo of the suspects being circulated now, they look to be from a very specific part of the world.

Those Tea Party folks sure do get around, eh? :rolleyes: How many chapters do they have in the Middle East?

[Tamara]

Personally, I will be extremely relieved if it indeed turns out to be someone who doesn't think they're on my side. They're probably going to hang the ricin thing on me as it is.

[TCinVA]

Personally, I will be extremely relieved if it indeed turns out to be someone who doesn't think they're on my side. They're probably going to hang the ricin thing on me as it is.

I believe they've made an arrest in that case, and that the culprit doesn't seem to be anything approaching a libertarian.

[Tamara]

I believe they've made an arrest in that case, and that the culprit doesn't seem to be anything approaching a libertarian.

You and I don't get to pick who's on our side; the media does. And "gun nuts" embraces a pretty wide swathe of folks I wouldn't care to sit down to dinner with.

[Kyle Reese]

I believe they've made an arrest in that case, and that the culprit doesn't seem to be anything approaching a libertarian.

He appears to be a Democrat, and an Elvis impersonator.

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[JHC]

He appears to be a Democrat, and an Elvis impersonator.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Utah Chapter? :cool:

[Tamara]

But is he A)Mad at Obama, B)Roughly similar to me in hue, and C)The sort who can avoid quoting large swathes of The Communist Manifesto in his letters? 'Cause if so, we're just peas in a pod, even if he is block warden for his local Democrat precinct.

Remember, to a Manhattan Democrat, me, Eric Rudolph, Randy Weaver, and Ted Kazcynski are a bridge foursome at the same ideological clubhouse. Everybody who's Mad At The Government west of the Hudson is Mad At The Government in the exact same way.

[JConn]

But is he A)Mad at Obama, B)Roughly similar to me in hue, and C)The sort who can avoid quoting large swathes of The Communist Manifesto in his letters? 'Cause if so, we're just peas in a pod, even if he is block warden for his local Democrat precinct.

Remember, to a Manhattan Democrat, me, Eric Rudolph, Randy Weaver, and Ted Kazcynski are a bridge foursome at the same ideological clubhouse. Everybody who's Mad At The Government west of the Hudson is Mad At The Government in the exact same way.

Well tam I think you are right. The article I read quoted his Facebook several times saying he is an independent, a christian, and an owner of guns. They also quoted an anti assault weapons ban post he had and showed a picture of a gun he had posted. They will try and make him seem like the average tea partier. Hopefully people are smarter than this but I doubt it.


Edit: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/17/police-id-suspect-arrested-in-connection-to-ricin-letters/

If you read to the end they aren't sure if it's actually him. Goes to show you have to read the entire thing.

[NickA]

He appears to be a Democrat, and an Elvis impersonator.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

The last time I got pulled over was by a small town cop who was also the local Elvis impersonator. 'Twas interesting :D

[ToddG]

Personally, I will be extremely relieved if it indeed turns out to be someone who doesn't think they're on my side. They're probably going to hang the ricin thing on me as it is.

If I've told you once I've told you a thousand times, your Elvis impersonations were going to get you in big trouble one of these days...

[BaiHu]

Even Jon Stewart skewers CNN on their false reports:

http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-stewart-cnn-boston-marathon-suspect-report-bombing-2013-4

[LOKNLOD]

The last time I got pulled over was by a small town cop who was also the local Elvis impersonator. 'Twas interesting :D

Alex, OK?

[NickA]

Alex, OK?

Nah, can't remember the name but a little podunk town outside of Hillsboro, TX. Not that far from West, actually.

[Drang]

Just found out today that a co-worker who's been acting odd the last couple of days left the Finish Line at about H-1...

[Shellback]

Officer down as of right now. Shooter still on the loose. (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/18/shooting-reported-on-mit-campus/)

[LHS]

Video NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BHjRRhdI-Ag

Homeowner filming from his window. You can hear the gunfire, and near the end, cops yelling "Show me your hands!" and what sounds like someone else yelling "Allahu Akhbar!"

Boston Globe is reporting at least one suspect in custody, and they are linking them to the marathon bombing.

[Sparks2112]

Video NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BHjRRhdI-Ag

Homeowner filming from his window. You can hear the gunfire, and near the end, cops yelling "Show me your hands!" and what sounds like someone else yelling "Allahu Akhbar!"

Boston Globe is reporting at least one suspect in custody, and they are linking them to the marathon bombing.

WTF.

[S Jenks]

The slain MIT officer was a friend and former college roommate of my younger brother. I met him a few times back in '08-'09 when he was a new reserve. I remember him showing me his newly-issued 229DAK and baton, being very excited about the job. He was a fun guy to be around, always knew how to deliver a joke. I'm going to withhold mentioning his name until MIT PD does so publicly.

[KeeFus]

Early news reporting that another officer has been critically wounded. Praying for the families of these officers...and to for those still hunting the second suspect.

[BaiHu]

Manhunt under way as police have shot and killed one suspect connected to the bombing. Details are being updated as I type so forgive some potential inaccuracies.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/massive-police-operation-under-way-in-boston/2013/04/19/979ec6dc-a8c6-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_t witter_washingtonpost

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[BaiHu]

I just updated this on the Boston Marathon thread.

http://http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/massive-police-operation-under-way-in-boston/2013/04/19/979ec6dc-a8c6-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_t witter_washingtonpost (http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/massive-police-operation-under-way-in-boston/2013/04/19/979ec6dc-a8c6-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_t witter_washingtonpost)

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[TCinVA]

A couple of Chechens.

[Hatchetman]

My sis the liberal lawyer is on lockdown in Watertown currently. Mebbe she'll take up my invite for some training now.

[TCinVA]

I'm hearing reports that the police are searching door to door. I'd imagine most people will be cooperative, but...

EDIT -

Not that it's surprising, but it's also been confirmed that these guys were rolling with suicide vests. Aim Fast, Hit Small, gents....

[Palmguy]

A couple of Chechens.

Those Chechens really do hate Tax Day...

[Jay Cunningham]

Hopefully the residents are taking Joe Biden's advice.

Wait.

[NETim]

Appears to me that the only thing left to do now is to find a way to blame the NRA.

[TCinVA]

Those Chechens really do hate Tax Day...

No way, man...they were angered by Beyonce's trip to Cuba.

[TCinVA]

I have to admit I'm puzzled by the robbery of the 7-11. If you're going to play Johnny Jihad and not suicide during the event, you'd figure that they would have gathered resources for E&E prior to setting up the bombs.

[NETim]

FOX news feed currently looks like a scene from a Clancy novel.

[Jay Cunningham]

Needed a Monster, bro.

[SteveK]

Appears they were of Chechnyan heritage. Anyone remember Beslan?

[NETim]

Living in the US as legal permanent residents for several years.

Expanded background checks would have prevented them from making bombs.

Damn the NRA!

[Kyle Reese]

A couple of Chechens.

Does the Tea Party have chapters in Chechnya?

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[BaiHu]

Looks like he pulled a suicide finishing act:


Multiple explosions echoed from inside a house as police in Boston massed inside a perimeter set up to contain the remaining suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing.
The situation was fluid, and the latest development came in the city's Watertown section after a chaotic night of mayhem that included the murder of a Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer and a shootout with police, authorities said early Friday.
Police believe the two suspects from Monday's terror attack are brothers, possibly from Chechnya, according to sources who spoke to Fox News. The man on the loose was identified as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass. They are believed to have been here for 'several years,' sources said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/19/gunshots-reported-on-mit-campus/

[Tamara]

So you've got one brother named after the first president of breakaway Chechnya and the other named after "The Sword of Islam", Muslim conqueror of Central Asia?

And INS told their parents "Come on in, y'all!"?

In 2002?

Golf clap, Immigration. Way to keep on your toes. My tax dollars at work.

[TCinVA]

So you've got one brother named after the first president of breakaway Chechnya and the other named after "The Sword of Islam", Muslim conqueror of Central Asia?

And INS told their parents "Come on in, y'all!"?


Are you suggesting the government should discriminate against someone because they happen to be named after murderous psychopaths? :o

[Jay Cunningham]

Are you suggesting the government should discriminate against someone because they happen to be named after murderous psychopaths?

Aren't you named after Timur the Lame?

[TCinVA]

Aren't you named after Timur the Lame?

Nope. After the book in the Bible. The one where St. Paul tells the namesake to drink a little wine.

...except I think wine is disgusting. Every one I've tried tastes like grape juice mixed with diesel fuel.

Apparently the media has made contact with the relatives of these losers. The dad called his sons "angels".

Yeah.

[Suvorov]

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea these guys are Chechens.....

Who'd have thunk it :confused:

[WDW]

I still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea these guys are Chechens.....

Who'd have thunk it :confused:

Are you serious? Chechens have been fighting side by side w/Islamic terrorists for decades. Very common to see them amongst the insurgents in Iraq.

[TCinVA]

Are you serious? Chechens have been fighting side by side w/Islamic terrorists for decades. Very common to see them amongst the insurgents in Iraq.

Sarcasm meter in need of recalibration.

[WDW]

Sarcasm meter in need of recalibration.

Sorry!!!! Can't tell sometimes :)

[TCinVA]

Apparently the guy is active on facebook and twitter right now.

[WDW]

Apparently the guy is active on facebook and twitter right now.

Well, he is 19 & therefore prob not too intelligent. Which in this case, is a good thing.

[Argus]

Looks like the guy in the picture who lost his legs may have helped identify the bombers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-19/boston-bombing-victim-in-iconic-photo-helped-identify-attackers.html

Wow.

[Suvorov]

Are you serious? Chechens have been fighting side by side w/Islamic terrorists for decades. Very common to see them amongst the insurgents in Iraq.

Yes, my sarcasm is at full speed in my statement. Fully aware of the contributions the Chechens have made towards the Jihad against the West and Russia. Also fully aware that the Clinton W.H. gave support to them (that is neither here no there, but doesn't appear to have won any loyalty from these two).

[Tamara]

Also fully aware that the Clinton W.H. gave support to them...

The US has historically more or less blindly supported any breakaway independence movement that doesn't involve American states.

[TCinVA]

You know, if there's a better argument for being able to defend your home from an invader than having a terrorist on the loose, I don't know what it is...

Maybe having an AR15 to keep the guy the cops are hunting with machine guns out of your house is a good thing after all. Imagine that.

[ToddG]

Apparently the media has made contact with the relatives of these losers. The dad called his sons "angels".

They were probably just protesting the murder of fellow angel Treyvon Martin.

As a conservative white male, I look forward to formal written apologies from MSNBC, CNN, and the rest of them for falsely accusing me of these crimes.

[JConn]

How long before they start calling them right wing Muslims?

[TCinVA]

http://i47.tinypic.com/11qla3r.jpg

[JConn]

http://i47.tinypic.com/11qla3r.jpg

Won't be reported on anywhere.

[ToddG]

Wait, they killed those people and maimed so many others because of cheese?

[TCinVA]

wait, they killed those people and maimed so many others because of cheese?

camembert ackbar!!!!

[YVK]

So you've got one brother named after the first president of breakaway Chechnya and the other named after "The Sword of Islam", Muslim conqueror of Central Asia?

And INS told their parents "Come on in, y'all!"?

In 2002?

Golf clap, Immigration. Way to keep on your toes. My tax dollars at work.

So, one was 7 and another 12 when they came in. My kid, who also has a strange name by American standards and who is currently under a lockup in a Harvard dorm, was 6.
How do you want them to establish enough proximity who to let in or not? While I hold no love for that particular ethnic group, the Russian military offensive against civilian population of Groznii was nothing but genocide, with scores of people fleeing far and wide for all the right reasons.

[SecondsCount]

Wait, they killed those people and maimed so many others because of cheese?

French cheese. ;)

[Byron]

http://i47.tinypic.com/11qla3r.jpg

Look at all those crazy "automatic weapons"... like the revolver, and what appears to be a sawed-off double barrel, pistol-grip shotgun (lower right corner).

[ToddG]

French cheese. ;)

I get it now. They were upset with France for not joining the US in the Iraqi war. Which means -- you guessed it folks -- it's all George Bush's fault!

[ToddG]

You know, if there's a better argument for being able to defend your home from an invader than having a terrorist on the loose, I don't know what it is...

Maybe having an AR15 to keep the guy the cops are hunting with machine guns out of your house is a good thing after all. Imagine that.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH and undoubtedly soon to be a detailed blog post at Gun Nuts.

[TCinVA]

I'm hearing that the MIT officer who was killed last night (RIP) was overcome in a physical struggle and killed with his own weapon.

In other words, the guns these guys were using may well have been snatched from a police officer. So when bad guys want to do bad things, they will simply find a weapon...even if they have to kill a cop to get one.

So much for the efficacy of gun control.

...and apparently there's significant suspicion that this dude is in a vehicle and on the move. Tons of cops, but perhaps they're all in the wrong place.

[tanner]

Looks like that Twitter account is fake... Shocking, I know.

[BaiHu]

Father seems none too bright:


The father of Boston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev tells ABC News that he will appeal to his son to "surrender peacefully."
But the father also promised that "all hell will break loose" if Tsarnaev is killed by police.
The father also said he talked to his sons earlier this week and that they talked about the bombing:
"We talked about the bombing. I was worried about them," Anzor Tsarnaev said.
He said his sons reassured him, saying, "Everything is good, Daddy. Everything is very good."
It's not clear whether this conversation took place before the bombings or after.
The father also said his sons are innocent:
The elder Tsarnaev insisted that his sons were innocent, but said he would appeal to his son to "surrender peacefully"
"Give up. Give up. You have a bright future ahead of you. Come home to Russia," the dad said.
Earlier, the father spoke to the Associated Press by telephone from Russia. In that conversation, he described his younger son as "a true angel."

http://www.businessinsider.com/father-wants-bomb-suspect-to-surrender-peacefully-2013-4

However, the uncle:


Ruslan Tsarni, the uncle of the two suspects in the Boston Marathon bombings, told a local television station that the suspects "do not deserve to live on this earth."
Tsarni told WBZ-TV in Boston (in an interview that was just aired Friday by CNN) that the two suspects — Dzhokar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev — do not deserve to live, and he apologized to their victims.
“He deserved his. He absolutely deserved his,” Tsarni said of Tamerlan, who was killed early Friday morning. “They do not deserve to live on this earth.”
He added: "If he did this, I'm sorry, too."

http://www.businessinsider.com/dzhokar-tamerlan-tsarnaevs-uncle-ruslan-tsarni-boston-marathon-suspects-bombing-2013-4

[Byron]

Looks like that Twitter account is fake... Shocking, I know.
This acct?
https://twitter.com/Dzhokhar_

Someone faked it back in 2012?

Here's the actual post from Dec 17, 2012
https://twitter.com/Dzhokhar_/status/280823796775153666

Edited to add: a bunch of tweets seem to have been removed. Deleted? Made private? I admit I don't know much about the workings of Twitter. I just know that when I looked at that acct a little while ago, there were more than the 3 tweets currently showing. *shrug*

[tanner]

This acct?
https://twitter.com/Dzhokhar_

Someone faked it back in 2012?

Here's the actual post from Dec 17, 2012
https://twitter.com/Dzhokhar_/status/280823796775153666

Edited to add: a bunch of tweets seem to have been removed. Deleted? Made private? I admit I don't know much about the workings of Twitter. I just know that when I looked at that acct a little while ago, there were more than the 3 tweets currently showing. *shrug*

Yeah, they changed the name of a different pre-existing account. I would guess that the vast majority of tweets and facebook posts attributed to this guy are fake. Look at what Anon did to Westboro Baptist's facebook page...

[Byron]

Yeah, they changed the name of a different pre-existing account.
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

[justintime]

camembert ackbar!!!!
Well Chechens are known to work for al quesadillas for some spare cheese

[Byron]

"Steve Carell is not sure how he got into this situation"

http://i.imgur.com/UVhmzt0.jpg

[Shellback]

My brother in law lives in Watertown. He says they're on lock down, there's police and military everywhere, but they're OK. They have supplies for making Bloody Mary's and snacks so they should make it.

Not sure if he knows this guy, he sent me the address, but he's got good on the ground photos on his Twitter thingie. https://twitter.com/AKitz

[SecondsCount]

Appears they were of Chechnyan heritage. Anyone remember Beslan?

Sulejman Talović, the Muslim shooter in the Trolley Square tragedy, was from Bosnia.

I have very little knowledge of the people or culture but is there some kind of parallel that can be drawn here?

[BaiHu]

Just some color on Tamerlan, take it with a pinch of salt, but apparently, this guy was one of his training partners at the boxing gym:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-19/killed-chechen-bomber-brother-i-dont-have-single-american-friend-i-dont-understand-t

[bdcheung]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130419102411-36-boston-manhunt-0419-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

So... is his rifle not loaded, or did he take the extra precaution of closing the dust cover after he charged it?

[TGS]

So... is his rifle not loaded, or did he take the extra precaution of closing the dust cover after he charged it?

Why would that be facepalm worthy, or even odd?

[BaiHu]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130419102411-36-boston-manhunt-0419-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

So... is his rifle not loaded, or did he take the extra precaution of closing the dust cover after he charged it?

Weather prediction is tough in MA, I heard about random and severe sandstorms being imminent :rolleyes:

[LittleLebowski]

So... is his rifle not loaded, or did he take the extra precaution of closing the dust cover after he charged it?

Mil guys are trained to close the dust cover when not in action.

[bdcheung]

Why would that be facepalm worthy, or even odd?

Because this photo was taken during the search of the apartment building, and this guy was supposed to be providing overwatch.

[bdcheung]

Mil guys are trained to close the dust cover when not in action.

Good to know, thanks

[LittleLebowski]

Because this photo was taken during the search of the apartment building, and this guy was supposed to be providing overwatch.

How long had he been sitting there? What don't we know? Non issue in my book.

[TGS]

I never realized that cool-kids didn't close the ejection port cover.

[Default.mp3]

So... is his rifle not loaded, or did he take the extra precaution of closing the dust cover after he charged it?

I know some instructors do teach that (assuming there is time, and the guy doesn't look like he's in a firefight), such as Pat Rogers and Jason Falla.

[JDM]

Every Military trained shooter I have ever shot with has kept his dust cover closed when not shooting, to include snapping it shut after charging the rifle.

Further, the Massachusetts State Police STOP team probably has a pretty solid grasp on what they're doing.

[Dan_S]

Every Military trained shooter I have ever shot with has kept his dust cover closed when not shooting, to include snapping it shut after charging the rifle.

As a civilian (with experience in an instructing capacity) I *always* keep my dust cover closed. It is ingrained in me from experience in sandy conditions, but even before that, I still always paid attention to details like that...

This is just common sense, and isn't something that I would expect to be made an issue of.

[BaiHu]

Was this always the case or just since the first Persian Gulf Wars?

[BaiHu]

Amusing intermission humor on retracting "breaking news".

1411

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[tanner]

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

This **MIGHT** be the real twitter handle...

@J_tsar

[Jay Cunningham]

Because there's so much fine sand in Boston, silly.

[Byron]

This **MIGHT** be the real twitter handle...

@J_tsar
Yea, I saw reporting on that but was reluctant to pass it along for risk of having to offer another mea culpa

If true, this is an interesting post: https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/324268440082841600

[TCinVA]

This **MIGHT** be the real twitter handle...

@J_tsar

If he's actively on the social media sites, he's an idiot. That would mean he has a laptop or a phone...either of which make it possible to track his location.

[Byron]

If he's actively on the social media sites, he's an idiot. That would mean he has a laptop or a phone...either of which make it possible to track his location.
No activity since Apr 16 when he tweeted that he's a "stress free kind of guy"

https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/324397718099353601

[Jay Cunningham]

Why must he be an idiot? If he's already decided he's on a suicide mission, what does it matter?

[TCinVA]

No activity since Apr 16 when he tweeted that he's a "stress free kind of guy"

https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/324397718099353601

Figured as much.

[orionz06]

If he's actively on the social media sites, he's an idiot. That would mean he has a laptop or a phone...either of which make it possible to track his location.

I think him being active could further whatever statement he's trying to make. Most wanted man in America tweets while on the run?

[TCinVA]

Apparently a post-mortem photo of the dead guy has hit the web.

[Shellback]

Imagine a half dozen cells opening up in gun-free zones across the U.S. A few malls, airports and schools at the same time would cause pandemonium.

[NEPAKevin]

You want pandemonium? Wait until Kim Kardashian realizes that no-one is paying attention to the "news" that her divorce was finalized because of Boston bombers.

[NickA]

Imagine a half dozen cells opening up in gun-free zones across the U.S. A few malls, airports and schools at the same time would cause pandemonium.

Yep, that's twice already this year that a major city has been basically paralyzed by one or two guys. Unfortunately I'm sure someone somewhere is taking notes :mad:

[Nephrology]

Apparently a post-mortem photo of the dead guy has hit the web.

I saw it - too much necrosis to be the guy.

[NickA]

These people are unbelievable :
https://mobile.twitter.com/CSGV/status/325251236750303232

CSGV is only concerned about where these two got guns :confused:

[David Armstrong]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130419102411-36-boston-manhunt-0419-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

So... is his rifle not loaded, or did he take the extra precaution of closing the dust cover after he charged it?

We were taught to close the dust cover after charging unless the situation prevented it (immediate action).

[YVK]

Among this insanity, one report made me smile. Bold is mine.

Even with the entire city locked down and looking like a ghost town, there's still one business in Watertown that -- in true Boston form -- is toughing out the chaos.

BuzzFeed confirmed this morning that four Dunkin' Donuts are still open and serving in the area ravaged by a man-hunt last night.


"There was an automated message going around telling businesses to close," Newtown Dunkin' manager Jessica Cadorette told BuzzFeed, "but because we're Dunkin' Donuts, we called the police department and they said we didn't have to."

[BaiHu]

We were taught to close the dust cover after charging unless the situation prevented it (immediate action).

As a not-in-the-know-guy, when and why was that procedure put in place? Vietnam? Persian Gulf? I assume this is to protect the rifle from the elements.

[Tamara]

OMG, he's going to try to bluff his way onto an airliner by claiming that he has a block of "black Irish" in his hostage's purse! He's going to fly the plane into the Games Commission building an kill Richard Dawson!